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Carrier Pets - Shame on you Cryptic

tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 525 Arc User
If you are going to launch and heavily promote new carriers, you should have FIXED YOUR PET AI first. They STILL ignore orders, they still vanish from your hangar bays if you land them to move somewhere else (I assume they're marked as "being" where they were loaded, for distance calc), and still don't follow the carrier when it moves, especially not at full impulse a long way. The fighter squadrons are marginal, but the support frigs are straight up horrible at it.

Quite honestly, if pilots on KDF fighters/frigs followed for 'real' the way they did in the game, well, see the 3rd movie when the guy exploded the ship instead of hitting the nacelle, and called it a 'lucky shot'. Disloyal pilots are easy to replace, after all. ;)​​
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 3,980 Arc User
    @darkbladejk @wingedhussar#7584 More feedback than submitting a bug report.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    I dont issue any comand, i just target the ship i want them to attack and the target is gone.. 99.9% of the time. As pets follow you very well now, well, i cannot agree with this too much..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    Recently, I was happy to find that recall seems to be working now. I click recall and my pets docked with my carrier rather quickly, I was quite happy with that.

    Then I went to fly to a new point in the BZ and my hanger pets just died anyway even though they were docked in my bay meaning that Recall basically does absolutely nothing.

    I just laughed.. it was 100% my fault for thinking something pet related actually worked. :lol:
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,206 Arc User
    I wish they would improve their ai too. The trait from the Jem'hadar Light Battlecruiser spawns in a special Jem'Hadar Attack Ship Pet and that thing is easily smarter than any hangar pet, it always keeps its cannons on target. They should just copy paste that thing's ai onto Cannon pets
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    Recently, I was happy to find that recall seems to be working now. I click recall and my pets docked with my carrier rather quickly, I was quite happy with that.

    Then I went to fly to a new point in the BZ and my hanger pets just died anyway even though they were docked in my bay meaning that Recall basically does absolutely nothing.

    I just laughed.. it was 100% my fault for thinking something pet related actually worked. :lol:

    If it's a pet.. it's stoooooopid!.. :lol:
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    some of this i am not sure what you are talking about, like the vanishing...i need more about that if you can provide.

    as far as the commands...i think they are better - not great still - but i found that after launch, i set them to intercept or attack, and they follow. right before i get to the target, i set them to attack/or confirm they are set as such... with this iteration of carriers, i think they follow commands better, albeit, with some concerns still.

    It means that if it doesn't move with the ship when 'docked', or fly along behind it, it gets registered 'destroyed' when you get too far away from it. And have to relaunch them all. So if you have rank 5 fighters, you lose them for rank 0 ones.​​
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    My pets don't disappear from the hangar bays. I haven't had problems with them enough to not use them.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    I used to have this problem in Battlezones. While I haven't tried recently, I know that it used to be a problem.
    westx211 wrote: »
    I wish they would improve their ai too. The trait from the Jem'hadar Light Battlecruiser spawns in a special Jem'Hadar Attack Ship Pet and that thing is easily smarter than any hangar pet, it always keeps its cannons on target. They should just copy paste that thing's ai onto Cannon pets

    And this is why... I prefer beam pets. lol
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    I have the fleet DHC BoP pets with battle cloaks from the old T5U Voquv but I didnt use them on the new T6 one since the biggest problem I find with pets is they arent good at maintaining such a tight angle of approach making them go often in circles when they use weapons with low arcs. The new pets seem to work fine for me
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User

    as for the recall and losing them, that is a new one to me as well. maybe its the distance, but i usually dock mine in between just to get some repairs done, then relaunch just after completed or close enough to that.

    i will keep a better eye on this now with all you posting as you have.

    It was happening for me in the Terran Badlands Battle Zone.

    After taking a point, I would recall my fighters. They would dock with my ship (hangar full, no pets on the screen) and then I would fly to my next point. Even when only flying to a directly neighboring point, the ships would just vanish from the hangar while I was in flight. By the time I reached the next objective I had no pets and had to re-launch new ones.

    I was trying to use Recall to avoid the earlier mentioned problem where you fly to another point and the pets don't follow, or don't stay close enough behind.

    I did this using a Jem'Hadar Carrier.. the new one. When I did the same thing using my Vengeance, it worked just fine. Funny thing is, I don't need to do it on that ship because Kelvin Drones pretty much work perfectly and just follow me to the next point. Romulan Drones are the same way, they work perfectly.. I think it depends on the ship and the pet.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Well, the worst pets that don't follow and don't even attack your current target are the Yukawa frigates, god, those things are awfull!!, in Defense of Starbase One, they attack anything, if you move, they don't follow you, and don't even come to assist you with your target, they do whatever they want, and leave you alone most of the time... they are truly fire and forget! but on solo missions they kinda behave, so i dont know whats the deal with them, i think they hate me or something.. :neutral:

    Every other pet i have, no problem at all, so i know those pets hate me!..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 376 Arc User
    The pets despawn in any area that has a large travel distance from point to point. Azure Nebula rescue is a pain as a TFO with pets they always despawn if your traveling area to area. Doesn't matter if its my JH gunships, my Tholian Meshweavers or my Scorpion fighters.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    Usually my pets don't dock, they just do a sort of touch-and-go. Going to full impulse often ends up in losing a lot of them, the same as not recalling them. And scenarios where there is a teleport button to get to the next stage they always go poof.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,820 Arc User
    jagdtier44 wrote: »
    The pets despawn in any area that has a large travel distance from point to point. Azure Nebula rescue is a pain as a TFO with pets they always despawn if your traveling area to area. Doesn't matter if its my JH gunships, my Tholian Meshweavers or my Scorpion fighters.

    I did it last week with my vanguard carrier (the older one) it was odd I would constantly have one despawn but the other 3 gunboats would follow me fine typically
  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    as for the recall and losing them, that is a new one to me as well. maybe its the distance, but i usually dock mine in between just to get some repairs done, then relaunch just after completed or close enough to that.

    i will keep a better eye on this now with all you posting as you have.

    It was happening for me in the Terran Badlands Battle Zone.

    After taking a point, I would recall my fighters. They would dock with my ship (hangar full, no pets on the screen) and then I would fly to my next point. Even when only flying to a directly neighboring point, the ships would just vanish from the hangar while I was in flight. By the time I reached the next objective I had no pets and had to re-launch new ones.

    I was trying to use Recall to avoid the earlier mentioned problem where you fly to another point and the pets don't follow, or don't stay close enough behind.

    THIS! This is exactly what I'm describing happening when I'm landing them as well.
    They follow, but they still can't keep up with basic Full-Impulse speeds and frequently disappear, requiring a complete relaunch. And it doesn't matter what command you give them. They'll fall behind, get out of range and get removed. They also like to target things I don't want them to shoot like metreon gas clouds...that just respawned right beside my ship.

    And this. They follow at 'basic impulse', not FULL IMPULSE, never switch to it, even if you wait for them to get off red alert, and vanish when you're halfway to somewhere, if you leave them out. SOMETIMES if I switch orders per hangar and switch them back (not the 'switch all' at the bottom, way too many times for me where that has done jack and cr@p...) and hit launch with scramble fighters active, they'll wake up and come to full impulse. more often? Just as more and more here describe. Your rank 5 pets poof and you have to launch new rank 0 ones. Which makes this worse, because your 'good' fighters/frigs are being sacrificed to the bug.​​
    Post edited by tasshena on
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    Recall has always been wonky and have varied success by the carrier being used because the point that pets need to interact with to actually dock seems to have been placed inside the model during the design process. This is just a guess on my part but with some carriers you choose recall and can then see the pets desperately nuzzling away at a very specific point on the hull like a litter of piglets fighting for a teat.

    Pets still refuse to follow you around most of the time and only a few will actively regroup after combat they then despawn as you move to another group. The new console from the support carriers feels like it's clicky is there to offset the problem rather than fix it. What's really daft about this is that the wingmen have the teleport to player function if they get too far so why this has never been added to carrier pets is just mind boggling.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Less nimble Frigate pets that emphasize narrow firing arc weapons are still borked, which has been the problem since the game launched years ago.

    You can see this in the T6 Voquv's Support Birds of Prey / Frigates.
    BOPs feature narrow firing arc weapons, DCs & Torpedoes such as on the old Elite Qaw'Dun BOP pets.
    But the new T6 Vogue's Support BOPs feature BEAMS.

    Cryptic tried repeatedly to fix this long ago when Feds got the T6 Jupiter that featured Frigates that were like BOPs featuring lots of narrow weapon arcs. Like the BOP pets they had problems and the devs were never able to fix it despite trying.
    If they couldn't fix it for the Feds, they can't fix it for anyone.

    Note that the best Frigate pets are the ones featuring wide firing arc beams, not DHCs / DCs.

    My Fleet Leader insisted that the Elite Qaw'Dun BOPs rocked, according to him they just blast away stuff with their cannons and torpedoes. I doubted it but I did give him the benefit of the doubt since it had been a long time since I used them. So I tossed them on my new T6 Vo'Quv and saw they still suck like they always did before. Flying around in circles around the target and their narrow arc weapons barely on target.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    its obvious they need to revamp the AI, but getting them to do it is highly unlikely.

    They have done several AI updates for pets, none have really worked. As bad as they are now, they used to be far worse believe it or not.

    I'm pretty sure that Pets are in their final state, I really don't see them trying again. They seem to have moved on a while ago.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • duasynduasyn Member Posts: 492 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    I was excited at first, but then I remembered about the AI and decided to not get them.
    I guess they're OK on my Discoprise, but seeing how I didn't give up any weapon slots to get 2 hangers its not as critical as it is on the carriers that only have 6 weapons and nothing else to make up for poor pet performance.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    duasyn wrote: »
    I was excited at first, but then I remembered about the AI and decided to not get them.
    I guess they're OK on my Discoprise, but seeing how I didn't give up any weapon slots to get 2 hangers its not as critical as it is on the carriers that only have 6 weapons and nothing else to make up for poor pet performance.

    This is also my biggest complaint about the current state of 'True Carriers.'

    I have several ships like the Discovery Enterprise, The Discovery D7 and the Tzenkethi Tzen Tar that have 2 hangar bays. As you said though, all of those ships have 8 weapon hard points, the hangar bays are a nice bonus. With these carriers you sacrifice hard points for your 2 hangars which means that you're really dependent on the horrid pet AI.

    It still baffles me that 'Flight Deck Carriers' get to have all the advantages and 'Full Carriers' get gimped for literally no reason. 2 Hangars are not worth trading 2 hard points, Promo Ships don't have to do it, FDC's don't have to do it, why do 'Full Carriers' have to?

    It's just amazing that pure carriers are the worst carriers in STO.
    Insert witty signature line here.
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