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I'm a Temporal Refugee Now...

I logged in as my 23rd century only captain and realized that I could queue up for the Borg/Tholian/etc red alerts.... YAY!!! I thought and queued up for them thinking, great more EXP for my "stay in the 23rd century Captain!"

Well I fought this strange cube like alien ships and this big long ship... and I got their weird things call "marks"..... so I was like awesome!!!

I am gonna go back and putter around the tiny corner of the galaxy the federation is... I went to leave and all of a sudden my astrometrics officer gave me the bad news.... We have jumped forward almost 200 YEARS!!!!

I can't go back, I tried to return to Earth, they they won;t give me permission to enter the system.... I had a mission the Caleb system but I am 200 years too late....

I wanna go back...... I miss my conversations with Admiral Garrett......

No system will have me, not even Risa!!! They won't even let me land....

WHY WHY!!!!


I blame Ensign Hunter...errr Daniels.... I knew I should have tossed him out the air lock the first mention of "Temporal" Shenanigans!!!!




I must warn you, I am quite Isane! I am Grand Duchess of the Abh Empire: Beneej Letopanyu Spoor!
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Comments

  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    Can you use the Transwarp to Mission button on a 23rd century mission to get back?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Can you use the Transwarp to Mission button on a 23rd century mission to get back?

    As I recall, you can't because it doesn't exist. They don't allow you transwarping till you get into the main playspace as your main faction. This goes for baby Roms too.
  • unotetsuunotetsu Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    Can you use the Transwarp to Mission button on a 23rd century mission to get back?

    As I recall, you can't because it doesn't exist. They don't allow you transwarping till you get into the main playspace as your main faction. This goes for baby Roms too.


    So my character begins their journey to try to find a way home.....

    I must warn you, I am quite Isane! I am Grand Duchess of the Abh Empire: Beneej Letopanyu Spoor!
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,051 Community Moderator
    If I'm interpreting this right... you managed to level a TOS while staying IN the 23rd Century to the point of being able to do TFOs... did one... then got dropped in the normal 25th Century map...
    I think you hit on something that was never meant to happen. I don't think they intended for anyone to stay in the 23rd Century and do endgame content.

    Easy fix might be to tag TOS characters to prevent them from queuing for TFOs until X happens, probably completing a certain mission in the Klingon War arc would be best.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,920 Arc User
    You're not actually IN the 25yh century. You're stuck in an adjacent plane seeing the 25th century but unable to interact with it
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    unotetsu wrote: »
    I logged in as my 23rd century only captain and realized that I could queue up for the Borg/Tholian/etc red alerts.... YAY!!! I thought and queued up for them thinking, great more EXP for my "stay in the 23rd century Captain!"

    Wait a tick...

    I thought it was impossible for non-factioned characters to participate in these types of activities, that being able to do so required that the character be flagged as either UFP or KDF, aka faction1 or faction2, which happens as part of the transition to core content after completing the origin story.

    Hey Som! if you are reading this, explain it to me. You made the argument that Cryptic had said this sort of thing was impossible unless the character was faction1 or faction2, that access to red alerts and patrols and such were not available for faction0 characters, and that was why Cryptic can't allow factions to stand alone, and that it wasn't due to PvP...

    Seems as though, whether intentionally or accidentally, Faction0 characters CAN access and even collect rewards from these activities, but what keeps them limited systemically to the core map is where their exit point leads to when you warp out.

    Looks to me like they are in the process of attempting to normalize content across the board, likely as a means of turning off factions so we get a unified factionless player base. They had to manually turn on these missions for Faction0. The latest patch likely included this left over from testing and they forgot to turn it off.

    My point is they can hook up ANY content regardless of faction status. Where it gets dicey is where the player gets sent after completing the mission. Seems to me that they could do a GetLastSectorMap and GetLastSectorXYZR call and then upon completion, send the player to that map at those coordinates. Before loading into an event there could be a SetLastSectorMap and SetLastSectorXYZR call to lock it in. With that wrapper around the process of enter and leaving an event, it would always make sure that the player is returned to where they belong.

    This would allow them to add those automated events to any origin story thus allowing the player to stay there. So if someone wanted to play as a dedicated 23C-FED, Romulan, Jem'hadar or DISCO-Fed, they could. And technically, if Cryptic wanted to they could drop in new missions in those aspects of the game.

    What happened here is accidental evidence that giving Faction0 Characters access to content intended for Faction1 or Faction2 characters is not impossible. That content simply needs to be streamlined so that it keeps players where they are supposed to be.

    Now this does not change the fact that for PvP purposes, there are only two factions able to participate, without doing a total revamp of that core design of the system, which would also require a revamp of any subsystem that is in any way tied to the 2-faction design. What it does mean is that for the purpose pf PvE content, it's not a matter of CAN'T, but rather one of WON'T

    Cause I promise you that if I had a choice to play exclusively as a Romulan, even if I might have to wait a while between Romulan Story arcs and cvould not participate in PvP, I would gladly embrace that. Same thing goes with my 23C-Fed character. Or my discovery-era character. Or my Jem'hadar character.

    But of course... lack of manpower prohibits them to effectively maintain storylines for each faction. It would be just too hard for them to do...

    But this glitch proves that it is possible, and therefore it could be made viable. IF they had the resources and motivation to do so. Which I know they don't. More's the pitty...
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    If I'm interpreting this right... you managed to level a TOS while staying IN the 23rd Century to the point of being able to do TFOs... did one... then got dropped in the normal 25th Century map...
    I think you hit on something that was never meant to happen. I don't think they intended for anyone to stay in the 23rd Century and do endgame content.

    Easy fix might be to tag TOS characters to prevent them from queuing for TFOs until X happens, probably completing a certain mission in the Klingon War arc would be best.

    Or... they can actually create TFOs that are specific to the starting sector maps for the different origin story races... Now that we know that there is not technical reason why a nonfactioned cannot access them...

    Oh... But that would mean that when we play one of those origin story species, we would have a means of continue playing it without going through the "faction gate." My Romulan could remain exclusively as a Romulan. Until I choose to advance to the 2409+ era.

    We were told that they CAN'T do this. But this glitch shows that what they meant to say is that they WON't do this.

    Frankly... I do not appreciate being lied to. This is proof positive of what I've been saying all along: That STO could be oh so much more than it is. There is no technical barrier at play here... Just a motivational and logistical one...

    Waiting for the usual white knight to come riding in to prove me wrong. Not gonna happen. We now KNOW.
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    You're not actually IN the 25yh century. You're stuck in an adjacent plane seeing the 25th century but unable to interact with it

    The completion of the TFO dropped him into the 25th Century sector map, because that is where it is designed to exit to. He did not complete the 23rd century origin story which would have turned his faction ID to 1 (UFP) which in turn would have opened up all the 25th century missions. He's still faction0 which the core game does not know what to do with... I bet if they put a mission trigger keyed to Faction0 in the 25th century map, he'd be able to see it and access it. And by that same token, if they added more 23rd century missions in the 23rd century map, including 23C-specific TFOs... and he could get back to that environment, he'd be able to do them...

    Again... This demonstrates that there is no technical barrier preventing them from extending origin story factions' PvE content prior to the transition, like we were originally told. They CAN, but they just WON'T.

    They LIED to us. We could have had a full PvE-only Romulan faction and storyline akin to a Romulan-Centric series... Same thing for 23rd Century Federation, Discovery-era and Jem'hadar characters. Instead they gave us technobabble that has here been proven to be technoBS.

    They CAN... But they WON'T...
    So guess what? I DON'T...
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • unotetsuunotetsu Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    Success!!!

    I didn't find a way home, but.... I found a way to Join up with starfleet in 2409!!!!

    Just pull up the allegiance selector!

    /gensendmessage Allegianceselector_Fullscreen show

    Just pick starfleet!

    DONE!


    I had fiddled around with macros a while back and at one point accidentally stumbled into the allegiance screen.. and thankfully I wrote that command down in my notepad notes at the time.

    I had these link in my notes, I think it was what led me to play around and stumble into it.

    https://freetoplaymmorpgs.com/star-trek-online/star-trek-online-keybinds-guide/


    I guess I cannot go home no more, but at least I live in the future!

    No longer homeless, Now I have to run/re-run the battle of caleb IV for the "first" time, LOL


    I must warn you, I am quite Isane! I am Grand Duchess of the Abh Empire: Beneej Letopanyu Spoor!
  • unotetsuunotetsu Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    Now to go shove Daniels out the damned airlock!
    I must warn you, I am quite Isane! I am Grand Duchess of the Abh Empire: Beneej Letopanyu Spoor!
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    unotetsu wrote: »
    Success!!!

    I didn't find a way home, but.... I found a way to Join up with starfleet in 2409!!!!

    Just pull up the allegiance selector!

    /gensendmessage Allegianceselector_Fullscreen show

    Just pick starfleet!

    DONE!


    I had fiddled around with macros a while back and at one point accidentally stumbled into the allegiance screen.. and thankfully I wrote that command down in my notepad notes at the time.

    I had these link in my notes, I think it was what led me to play around and stumble into it.

    https://freetoplaymmorpgs.com/star-trek-online/star-trek-online-keybinds-guide/


    I guess I cannot go home no more, but at least I live in the future!

    No longer homeless, Now I have to run/re-run the battle of caleb IV for the "first" time, LOL


    Glad you are not stuck anymore. It does not change the fact that we were lied to. I will be referencing this incident going forward in my continued effort to encourage branching out with our character origin choices more. Now that we know that there is no technical reason why a non-UFP/KDF character cannot access any content that, intentionally or otherwise, is hooked up to it.

    This also means that technically, we can have our UFP/KDF faction status removed and thus all be transitioned to formal alliance status under Faction0 status so long as we have triggered a specific event. We'd leave the possibility of war between UFP and KDF behind, but every single one of us would be able to access end-game PvE content chains.

    So they'll have to do a little work. Oh well. This incident has revealed doors we were told didn't exist. CVryptic needs to open and walk through them, not that we know thhey CAN, but just WON'T.

    Enjoy the 25th Century for the first time again...
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,920 Arc User
    > @unotetsu said:
    > Now to go shove Daniels out the damned airlock!

    It doesn't work. A version of him just keeps coming back
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    Again... This demonstrates that there is no technical barrier preventing them from extending origin story factions' PvE content prior to the transition, like we were originally told. They CAN, but they just WON'T.

    They LIED to us. We could have had a full PvE-only Romulan faction and storyline akin to a Romulan-Centric series... Same thing for 23rd Century Federation, Discovery-era and Jem'hadar characters. Instead they gave us technobabble that has here been proven to be technoBS.
    They never said it was impossible to add more missions to the existing Romulan, Klingon, 23c Fed, etc. etc. faction specific mission sets. They have only ever said they think its a better use of money to make something everyone can play.

    The only lie is your claim they said it was impossible.

    Oh no you don't, Som...

    We had a lengthy discussion in which YOU swore up and down that the reason why they cannot convert from 2 factions to 1, (reverting to faction0) or have more than 2 factions was because of the way TFOs and Red Alerts and such work. You rightly said that mechanically they can only have 2 factions because of the way that rule is hardcoded into so many systems. But you also said that faction0 does not have access to TFOs, etc, so even if we were to be switched back to Faction0, we couldn't play half of the game...


    Uhm... Som... Faction0 has access to that stuff. Which you said Cryptic said was impossible. Either they lied, or you pulled that out of your aft cargo hold. I accepted your explanation. Now that the game itself, whether by intent or by accident, has proven the supposed technical barrier to not exist... Unless theis is a recent development that was not meant to be encountered on the live server yet... In which case the "They can't do it because reasons" excuse does not fly.

    I have been proven right by the game itself.
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,051 Community Moderator
    And this has nothing to do with that. 23c and Discovery era captains are already coded faction 1 from the beginning since there is no point in which they get to make a choice about which faction to chose. They are always Federation.

    ^ This.

    DSC and TOS Feds are still Feds by default.
    Its Romulans and Jem'Hadar that have to pick an ally before they can TFO.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »
    And this has nothing to do with that. 23c and Discovery era captains are already coded faction 1 from the beginning since there is no point in which they get to make a choice about which faction to chose. They are always Federation.

    ^ This.

    DSC and TOS Feds are still Feds by default.
    Its Romulans and Jem'Hadar that have to pick an ally before they can TFO.

    Then explain why the solution to his issue was to manually force Faction Status to Federation... If he was federation by default, then he just would have found himself in the 25th century with access to all UFP (faction1) designated content... I wonder what would have happened had he selected Klingon... He probably would have irreparably broken his character...

    The game automatically sets Faction1 for TOS/DSC era characters when they reach the transition point in the origin story that brings them to the 2409+ era.

    There's no way to twist this one... It is what it is.
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Oh no you don't, Som...

    We had a lengthy discussion in which YOU swore up and down that the reason why they cannot convert from 2 factions to 1, (reverting to faction0) or have more than 2 factions was because of the way TFOs and Red Alerts and such work. You rightly said that mechanically they can only have 2 factions because of the way that rule is hardcoded into so many systems. But you also said that faction0 does not have access to TFOs, etc, so even if we were to be switched back to Faction0, we couldn't play half of the game...


    Uhm... Som... Faction0 has access to that stuff. Which you said Cryptic said was impossible. Either they lied, or you pulled that out of your aft cargo hold. I accepted your explanation. Now that the game itself, whether by intent or by accident, has proven the supposed technical barrier to not exist... Unless theis is a recent development that was not meant to be encountered on the live server yet... In which case the "They can't do it because reasons" excuse does not fly.

    I have been proven right by the game itself.
    And this has nothing to do with that. 23c and Discovery era captains are already coded faction 1 from the beginning since there is no point in which they get to make a choice about which faction to chose. They are always Federation.

    The problem the poster above faced is a problem you can run into even on the normal 2409 Fed start, if you manage to get out of the tutorial before you are supposed to. The game hasn't set the flags that you are out of the tutorial area, and thus, doesn't think you should have access to certain missions yet. That has nothing to do with faction status, that has to do with flags.

    All that has been proven is that you still don't understand how games work.

    And yet, what solved his problem was setting Faction to 1. That the glitch sometimes happens to regular UFP characters who somehow manage to leave the tutorial before time suggests to me that Faction0 is really the default for everyone and it only gets set to 1 or 2 upon completion of, or the voluntary skipping of the UFP/KDF tutorial for UFP/KDF characters, and at the transition point in the other origin stories, either by choice or by automated script attached to the input that continues the game to the next step.

    But Okay...
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • unotetsuunotetsu Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    YIKES!!!!

    Didn't mean for my temporal misadventures to start a literal civil war here.....

    I must warn you, I am quite Isane! I am Grand Duchess of the Abh Empire: Beneej Letopanyu Spoor!
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,051 Community Moderator
    unotetsu wrote: »
    YIKES!!!!

    Didn't mean for my temporal misadventures to start a literal civil war here.....

    Welcome to the forums.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    unotetsu wrote: »
    YIKES!!!!

    Didn't mean for my temporal misadventures to start a literal civil war here.....

    It didn't... It has just managed to shed some light on just how viable faction0 is, if the right elements were hooked up to it...

    As Som pointed out, occasionally, a rgular UFP character gets thrown into the same sort of limbo you were in if they somehow get dropped out of the tutorial prematurely. They've got to manually select faction to correct it like you did.


    That tells me that the true default faction for every character created is NONE until the game either triggers the choice or sets it just prior to moving the player into the post-tutorial/origin content.

    I do wonder what would have happened had you selected Klingon. Would you have been a TOS-era traitor and be seen by the game as a member of the KDF, even though you'd be flying a TOS-era ship and wearing a TOS-era uniform who can then go on to command Klingon ships and have KDF BOffs and DOffs?

    I hope someone else experiences what you did and they give that option a try, just to see what happens...
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,051 Community Moderator
    This became an issue because they rearranged when TFOs normally unlock, and the OP never progressed in the story to where it would normally be unlocked.

    TOS and DSC Feds are still Feds. The fact he was able to queue up despite not having left the TOS era pretty much proves it.
    This isn't proof of anything except an unforseen issue when implimenting TOS Feds, that being someone willingly staying in the TOS era and leveling though alternate means, then queuing for a TFO without finishing the TOS arc.
    Normal Feds can't access TFOs until a certain point. Does that make them "Faction 0" before that point too?
    I do wonder what would have happened had you selected Klingon. Would you have been a TOS-era traitor and be seen by the game as a member of the KDF, even though you'd be flying a TOS-era ship and wearing a TOS-era uniform who can then go on to command Klingon ships and have KDF BOffs and DOffs?

    I predict... it would error out or just break the character entirely, rendering it unplayable.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »
    This became an issue because they rearranged when TFOs normally unlock, and the OP never progressed in the story to where it would normally be unlocked.

    TOS and DSC Feds are still Feds. The fact he was able to queue up despite not having left the TOS era pretty much proves it.
    This isn't proof of anything except an unforseen issue when implimenting TOS Feds, that being someone willingly staying in the TOS era and leveling though alternate means, then queuing for a TFO without finishing the TOS arc.
    Normal Feds can't access TFOs until a certain point. Does that make them "Faction 0" before that point too?

    No. It just means that the TFOs become accessible in general once a character reaches a certain level, and are not really tied to faction status like Som originally was insisting. Unotetsu chose not to complete the TOS origin story, which would have set faction status to 1 and moved him to the start point where all who transition from TOS to 2409+ era. It was the setting of faction to 1 that made everything start working for him... The TOS-era origin sector map is not something Cryptic expected anyone to stay in by refusing to complete the arc.

    As I understand it the Borg red Alert is faction agnostic and comes available upon reaching a certain level. Unotetsu no doubt put a lot of time slowly leveling his TOS character until he hit the threshold. The exit point of the red alert is always tothe 2409+ era sector map. IF Cryptic had made it so the game set a reference point to map and coordinates before loading into the event, and so it would get that info on exit, he could have loaded back into the TOS sector map and would not have been the wiser, except that he now had access to Red Alerts and such.

    Follow the logical data flow here and I think you will come to the same conclusion
    I do wonder what would have happened had you selected Klingon. Would you have been a TOS-era traitor and be seen by the game as a member of the KDF, even though you'd be flying a TOS-era ship and wearing a TOS-era uniform who can then go on to command Klingon ships and have KDF BOffs and DOffs?

    I predict... it would error out or just break the character entirely, rendering it unplayable.[/quote]

    I wonder if anyone is willing to test that. Just for shiggles...
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,051 Community Moderator
    By all means. Go for it.

    But this doesn't prove squat other than revealing something that is probably a bug. When TOS Feds were made, they never intended for the player to STAY in that era forever. Natural progression would have led TOS Feds into Caleb IV, and then the 25th Century, where the rest of the game was. TFOs used to unlock around lv 45 or so, preferably 50, as they were once considered endgame stuff, LONG after a TOS Fed transitioned into the 25th Century.

    By being able to queue up for a TFO... it showed that a TOS Fed IS considered a Fed faction player, despite the fact they had not reached the normal unlock point for TFOs via normal progression.
    All this was a consequence of something that was not meant to happen, IE leaving a TOS Fed in TOS era by not running Caleb IV, while still leveling through alternate means.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,580 Arc User

    Waiting for the usual white knight to come riding in to prove me wrong. Not gonna happen. We now KNOW.

    They never said it was impossible to add more missions to the existing Romulan, Klingon, 23c Fed, etc. etc. faction specific mission sets. They have only ever said they think its a better use of money to make something everyone can play.

    The only lie is your claim they said it was impossible.

    (muffled laughter)

  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,473 Arc User
    The TOS era character could very well start out as faction 0 instead of faction one, in fact faction 0 could be where all the tutorials are, but even if it is that does not mean that everything can be swapped around without serious problems.

    Games like these run on databases of tables, very big and complex tables, and unless the tables match up then switching from one to another can make for some very scrambled results. A human TOS character that switched would end up as whatever the key number is on the other table, so the human might end up as a Klingon if both are, say, the first entry on the corresponding table. Going down the table by making a TOS Vulcan or Andorian could get the character switched to an Orion, Gorn, Leithian, or whatever the corresponding number is.

    And that is assuming it works at all. For one thing, different races have different options, some have hair sliders, some don't, etc.

    By "not possible" they probably mean not possible in a way that is actually viable. Eventually they probably could do a series of database reorganizations to make a single Alliance faction for everyone, but doing that is basically rewriting the game using the same engine. If they can do it in small stages over time they might be able to spread the expense out enough to make it worth doing, but if it cannot be done that way the expense would probably never be approved since it would be almost like developing the game all over again.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    The TOS era character could very well start out as faction 0 instead of faction one, in fact faction 0 could be where all the tutorials are, but even if it is that does not mean that everything can be swapped around without serious problems.

    Games like these run on databases of tables, very big and complex tables, and unless the tables match up then switching from one to another can make for some very scrambled results. A human TOS character that switched would end up as whatever the key number is on the other table, so the human might end up as a Klingon if both are, say, the first entry on the corresponding table. Going down the table by making a TOS Vulcan or Andorian could get the character switched to an Orion, Gorn, Leithian, or whatever the corresponding number is.

    And that is assuming it works at all. For one thing, different races have different options, some have hair sliders, some don't, etc.

    By "not possible" they probably mean not possible in a way that is actually viable. Eventually they probably could do a series of database reorganizations to make a single Alliance faction for everyone, but doing that is basically rewriting the game using the same engine. If they can do it in small stages over time they might be able to spread the expense out enough to make it worth doing, but if it cannot be done that way the expense would probably never be approved since it would be almost like developing the game all over again.

    Let's assume that EVERY character starts as faction0, and that being set to faction1 or faction2 happens at the completion of the tutorial, selted option to skip the tutorial, or at the end on the origin story.

    Now let's also assume that TFOs and other such content are tied strictly to level, and not to faction status. How might this be confirmed? By creating a character we know for sure starts as faction0, such as a Romulan or Jem Hadar, keep them in the origin story and level them to the point where TFOs come available. If the same thing happens, then we know that TOS characters also start as faction0. And it's a good bet that Discovery characters do as well.

    What does this tell us about Faction0?

    I believe that it tells us that faction0 can be just as fleshed out as Faction1 and Faction2 in terms of content availaility. MISSION content seems to be filtered by faction. But Faction 0 also has missions available to it as well, or else there would not be mission progression for Romulans. There are enough Faction0 missions available to Romulan and Reman characters to get them through the origin story with enough rank to join the normal UFP or KDF mission chains which open up after the character achieves Faction1 or Faction2 status.

    I suspect that a romulan that remains in origin long enough will begin getting TFOs and such, and upon completion of one, will find themselves in 2409+ sector space but also with everything inactive, requiring manual faction selection like the OP did.

    Now that we know, or at least have a valid reason to suspect that Faction0 status is not necessarily the void we were led to believe it was, They could put an event in that sets an achievement AllianceTreaty=True and then set Faction=0. All forward-going content would be alliance content. First new mission would not be available unless AllianceTreaty=True. Subsequent missions would depend on their predecessors being completed.

    Now if a TOS character duplicates the OP's little misadventure, and selects Klingon, and said character retains everything and gains access to the KDF missions and ships and such, and it doesn't break the character, then we know that Faction0 could be made to do everything, and that the only real reason Faction1 and Faction2 exists is to facilitate PvP and filter elements that are tied to the 2 faction mechanics.

    But once such a transition occurs, there will be no more PvP...
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,580 Arc User

    Games like these run on databases of tables, very big and complex tables, and unless the tables match up then switching from one to another can make for some very scrambled results. A human TOS character that switched would end up as whatever the key number is on the other table, so the human might end up as a Klingon if both are, say, the first entry on the corresponding table. Going down the table by making a TOS Vulcan or Andorian could get the character switched to an Orion, Gorn, Leithian, or whatever the corresponding number is.

    Looking forward to an amusing graphic from Smoke Bailey to illustrate this...

  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,473 Arc User
    Jett mentioned something in one of the livestreams about "cross faction" ships actually being two ships, one in each of the two faction ship tables. That sounds like that switching experiment would run into table collisions, as would any attempt to unify the faction databases. I suspect that the TOS character switching to a KDF one would end up either with the starting B'rel or some random low level KDF ship if it worked at all.

    It sounds like an interesting experiment if someone has the time to do it though I would caution them and suggest using a new "disposable" account in case it really messes things up.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,768 Arc User
    Jett mentioned something in one of the livestreams about "cross faction" ships actually being two ships, one in each of the two faction ship tables. That sounds like that switching experiment would run into table collisions, as would any attempt to unify the faction databases. I suspect that the TOS character switching to a KDF one would end up either with the starting B'rel or some random low level KDF ship if it worked at all.

    It sounds like an interesting experiment if someone has the time to do it though I would caution them and suggest using a new "disposable" account in case it really messes things up.

    The different ship for cross faction purposes may be exactly that, for factional purposes. Becauseeverything, including gear for both character and ship has a factional assignment to it. One version of a cross faction ship may only allow KDF-flagged gear while the other may only allow UFP.

    Now if there was gear designed explicitly for Faction 0 and a ship was designed for faction 0, then so long as the player is using a character that is faction 0, then in theory it should work.
    "There can be no meeting of the minds between two parties
    if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle."
    -Ambassador Samuel J. Stone
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