This again? I'm more convinced than ever that you just want to collect enough anomalous cases that you can try to claim it isn't Akamai Technologies causing nearly all of it, when it is. We've given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes, SEVERAL TIMES now. Hasn't it cracked the pea brains yet that Akamai is the single BIGGEST issue here?
This again? I'm more convinced than ever that you just want to collect enough anomalous cases that you can try to claim it isn't Akamai Technologies causing nearly all of it, when it is. We've given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes, SEVERAL TIMES now. Hasn't it cracked the pea brains yet that Akamai is the single BIGGEST issue here?
First of all, these things take time between the contract they have with Akamai Technologies and with the invisible enemy COVID-19 around that also causes unique issues as well. Has it ever occurred to you and others like you that between this thread, the user-created threads, and the lag issues thread that they are actually looking into this issue and are collecting information to bring to the cybersecurity firm's attention with the node info as well? Also, please do not flame Cryptic and jump to unwarranted conclusions and conspiracies against Cryptic. Most players know what node it is that is causing problems and I see what it is as well including yourself. Mention that node, wait, and continue to provide feedback with constructive criticism and not destructive criticism. I understand your frustration, I also do not like being SNRed, rubberbanded, etc. I especially had a lot of rubberbanding last night at the Vlugta Dilithium Mine. I have provided my tracerts and other stuff in the past and even have it narrowed to when the lag started to get really bad when the ground TFO Pahvo Dissension and I made a bug report on April 2019. Until this gets resolved, I will keep them bookmarked. Thanks.
This again? I'm more convinced than ever that you just want to collect enough anomalous cases that you can try to claim it isn't Akamai Technologies causing nearly all of it, when it is. We've given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes, SEVERAL TIMES now. Hasn't it cracked the pea brains yet that Akamai is the single BIGGEST issue here?
First of all, these things take time between the contract they have with Akamai Technologies and with the invisible enemy COVID-19 around that also causes unique issues as well. Has it ever occurred to you and others like you that between this thread, the user-created threads, and the lag issues thread that they are actually looking into this issue and are collecting information to bring to the cybersecurity firm's attention with the node info as well? Also, please do not flame Cryptic and jump to unwarranted conclusions and conspiracies against Cryptic. Most players know what node it is that is causing problems and I see what it is as well including yourself. Mention that node, wait, and continue to provide feedback with constructive criticism and not destructive criticism. I understand your frustration, I also do not like being SNRed, rubberbanded, etc. I especially had a lot of rubberbanding last night at the Vluga Dilithium Mine. I have provided my tracerts and other stuff in the past and even have it narrowed to when the lag started to get really bad when the ground TFO Pahvo Dissension entered into the game on April 2019. Until this gets resolved, I will keep them bookmarked. Thanks.
The problem with what you are saying is this has been going on for approx 3 years since they changed ISP with us providing information for all that time. Just how long do they need to look into the issue and just how much data do they need to collect about the same problem? Its been clear what the problem is since the first weeks of them changing ISP providers. The game has been barely playable for a lot of people and this problem has caused a lot of people to leave.
Back when everything was ran by the infrastructure in Boston it was for the most part smooth and the change to Akamai has been a nightmare since day 1. You can only use the line "Has it ever occurred to you and others like you that between this thread, the user-created threads, and the lag issues thread that they are actually looking into this issue and are collecting information " for so long and after all these years we are well past that point for that line being valid anymore. Its perfectly understandable why so many players are so frustrated as its been going on far longer then reasonable. Even if they cannot fix it they should have at the very least made an official statement long before now explaining the problem. Instead all we get is the same data gathering time and time again. Its feels like an endless loop.
This again? I'm more convinced than ever that you just want to collect enough anomalous cases that you can try to claim it isn't Akamai Technologies causing nearly all of it, when it is. We've given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes and given you traceroutes, SEVERAL TIMES now. Hasn't it cracked the pea brains yet that Akamai is the single BIGGEST issue here?
First of all, these things take time between the contract they have with Akamai Technologies and with the invisible enemy COVID-19 around that also causes unique issues as well. Has it ever occurred to you and others like you that between this thread, the user-created threads, and the lag issues thread that they are actually looking into this issue and are collecting information to bring to the cybersecurity firm's attention with the node info as well? Also, please do not flame Cryptic and jump to unwarranted conclusions and conspiracies against Cryptic. Most players know what node it is that is causing problems and I see what it is as well including yourself. Mention that node, wait, and continue to provide feedback with constructive criticism and not destructive criticism. I understand your frustration, I also do not like being SNRed, rubberbanded, etc. I especially had a lot of rubberbanding last night at the Vluga Dilithium Mine. I have provided my tracerts and other stuff in the past and even have it narrowed to when the lag started to get really bad when the ground TFO Pahvo Dissension entered into the game on April 2019. Until this gets resolved, I will keep them bookmarked. Thanks.
The problem with what you are saying is this has been going on for approx 3 years since they changed ISP with us providing information for all that time. Just how long do they need to look into the issue and just how much data do they need to collect about the same problem? Its been clear what the problem is since the first weeks of them changing ISP providers. The game has been barely playable for a lot of people and this problem has caused a lot of people to leave.
Back when everything was ran by the infrastructure in Boston it was for the most part smooth and the change to Akamai has been a nightmare since day 1. You can only use the line "Has it ever occurred to you and others like you that between this thread, the user-created threads, and the lag issues thread that they are actually looking into this issue and are collecting information " for so long and after all these years we are well past that point for that line being valid anymore. Its perfectly understandable why so many players are so frustrated as its been going on far longer then reasonable. Even if they cannot fix it they should have at the very least made an official statement long before now explaining the problem. Instead all we get is the same data gathering time and time again. Its feels like an endless loop.
They never changed ISPs. Their ISP is still Cogent (and IMO Cogent isn't a great ISP either). They use Akami for their data security and content distribution network/cloud storage (Patches, etc.) And yes, since they went to Akami for Content distribution, game performance has suffered.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Some folks in here need to take a deep breath and stop to think about some things for a moment. I've said this quite a bit on these forums in other threads. First off, there is a thousand and one different things that can cause lag as the internet is still largely wired. It's not a straight shot from your rig to the servers as your connection hops through several data centers similar to a digital snail mail system that occurs at the speed of light. It's possible for your rig to be fine and their servers to be fine, but if there is an issue along the route your rig takes to communicate with the servers, such as a wire down, issue with a data center etc, then you will experience lag. Your internet speed you get from your ISP can also have an effect, especially during peak hours. If you are using a router, and that router is near other devices that operate at the same frequency, especially microwaves, it can cause issues. Also your computer can and does have an effect on your gameplay. If you're running on a modern rig using all modern parts, 20 series video card, and down the line, you will have a much much easier time than someone who is using a 5 year old computer that's running purely off integrated graphics. Not all hardware is the same as much as some folks may not want to hear that. A $300 walmart laptop isn't going to have anywhere near the power a $1000+ desktop is going to have. Your hardware choices do in fact matter.
Now before folks say "but darkblade it's akamai because x", for alot of folks that may be true. However knowing where the problem lies is only half the battle. Akamai is a security company first and foremost that is contracted through Cryptic's ISP to provide DDoS security to their clients. In the event a DDoS is detected or it thinks a DDoS is detected, their systems slow down traffic to give time for the end users to mount a defense. Legitimate MMO traffic can sometimes appear as a DDoS due to the nature of how they both work. Each time you try to log into the game your rig pings the server attempting to establish communications. The server then sends back a response asking for the credentials to the account you wish to log into. You then feed this info the server which checks that everything matches and then lets you on when it does. A server can only handle so many active communication requests and tasks at once before they bog down. If everyone is slamming a server trying to log in at once, this can appear as a DDoS due to the massive amount of pings hitting the server to the point it can't keep up. This is what happened to World of Warcraft several years ago when they thought they had a DDoS on launch day, but it was just folks trying to get into the game when they looked deeper. A DDoS is an attack that pings the server constantly and attempts to bog it down by sending more data and ping requests than the server can process, much like trying to backup traffic on a busy freeway by intentionally going as slow as possible or so on. Until one looks under the hood a DDoS can sometimes be hard to tell from legitimate traffic.
Cryptic and other businesses must have security in place to protect their customers and business alike, otherwise all of our information would always be at risk and we would never be able to play. In this instance Cryptic has to go through their ISP to get stuff sorted with Akamai and others. The problem Akamai faces is how they can open up for more traffic to get to STO so it's not being constantly throttled, without opening up the game to DDoS attacks or other clients on the ISP. Some folks might say "well why don't they just find another ISP." While that's a valid question, all of their ducks must be in a row if they wanted to make a seamless transition to the new ISP. They would also need to make sure that this new hypothetical ISP can meet their needs and provide security for them. They would also need to make sure the new ISP isn't using Akamai either, or you're back to square one again.
Overall it's not as simple as people think. Knowing what to fix is one thing, knowing how to fix it is something else. It's not always as simple as flipping a switch as much as we all wish it were. If Cryptic's ISP and/or Akamai wanted to say there is no issue, doing these reports and similar gives Cryptic ammo to say "yes there is an issue, here is the evidence." They don't like this anymore than you or I do and it will be fixed, though it may not be as fast as we may like it to be.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Overall it's not as simple as people think. Knowing what to fix is one thing, knowing how to fix it is something else. It's not always as simple as flipping a switch as much as we all wish it were. If Cryptic's ISP and/or Akamai wanted to say there is no issue, doing these reports and similar gives Cryptic ammo to say "yes there is an issue, here is the evidence." They don't like this anymore than you or I do and it will be fixed, though it may not be as fast as we may like it to be.
Why after almost 3 years and well over a 100 if not 200 reports can they not at least put out an official statement saying we have found these problems even if they cannot fix it.
It feels like we players have established a clear link of where one of the key problem areas is which has been confirmed by other players in other MMO's but years later and we are in the dark with no official response and still having the same lines about needing more time and needing more ammo. We are fast coming up to 3 years of this Akamai problem and some of the other lag goes back even further. Its very frustrating as a player to hear after almost 3 years that we need to give more time. Its worrying that we could still have this problem 4 or 5 years down the line from when it started. Its causing harm to the game which is the last thing any of us want.
After another day of Rubberbanding around Dyson Battlezone/Crystal Catastrophe and Kobayashi Maru your game has officially become endangered software on my PC and is very very close to after 9 years of playing of being uninstalled unless you do something about the server connectivity. You definitely are not ever going to see another penny of money from me.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Why after almost 3 years and well over a 100 if not 200 reports can they not at least put out an official statement saying we have found these problems even if they cannot fix it.
It feels like we players have established a clear link of where one of the key problem areas is which has been confirmed by other players in other MMO's but years later and we are in the dark with no official response and still having the same lines about needing more time and needing more ammo. We are fast coming up to 3 years of this Akamai problem and some of the other lag goes back even further. Its very frustrating as a player to hear after almost 3 years that we need to give more time. Its worrying that we could still have this problem 4 or 5 years down the line from when it started. Its causing harm to the game which is the last thing any of us want.
What else would you want them to say honestly? I told folks awhile back they thought they had found something to alleviate some of the issues, but I couldn't disclose what that was due to NDA. I know that sounds like a cop out but it's not my place to disclose it anyways. They don't like this anymore than you or I do which is why they're actually investigating. They've acknowledged issues previously as well. With Akamai, they're contracted by Cryptic's ISP and not directly by Cryptic themselves. So essentially Cryptic is going to have to most likely go through their ISP anytime they deal with Akamai. Assuming Cryptic's ISP wanted to switch security companies, there's the issue of contracts and finding another company and so on. It's not as simple as just flipping a switch as much as we all wish it were. I would rather them take the time they need and do it right vs to rush it and make things worse, as I hope you would as well.
No one even suggested to deactivate server side security.
Shaking down current security could confirm if they're the culprit or not. If so, finding a better third party security provider seems to be the way to go. (Why do Cryptic outsource server security to begin with??)
However, the problem with Akamai that many people complain about here on the forum and on Reddit isn't with security, but with lousy "web acceleration" (traffic acceleration through data compression https://akamai.com/uk/en/resources/web-acceleration.jsp). It basically overannalyses the traffic then arbitrarily decides to compress this and that part of the traffic, and it then decides this or that other part of the traffic no longer needs data compression so it stops compressing. However, switching compression on or off causes "hick ups" and the signal gets lost for a few milliseconds. That's why this kind of technology started phasing out in early 2000 because it was just plain ugly with media streaming. It's still around because it works great with emails, picture galleries, and anything that doesn't get downloaded and played "in real time".
I never suggested anyone wanted the security turned off, I was making the point as to why it's needed. Again keep in mind Akamai is contracted by Cryptic's ISP and NOT by Cryptic themselves. So the servers Cryptic would need to check for this kind of stuff, they don't have ready access to and need to go through their ISP. Plenty of companies also have security a little upstream from them on the datastream itself now. This is meant to hopefully intercept a DDoS before it can do alot of damage. Think of it like setting up a filter at a point where a river splits off vs individual branches of the river. The idea is to protect all the subsequent river paths with one filter instead of needing several smaller ones. Since Cryptic doesn't own the filter or the particular branch of the river they're on, they have to go through the proper owners to verify what's going on. This is part of why it's important they have sufficient ammo to demonstrate issues. We have no way of knowing if Akamai is giving Cryptic's ISP and Cryptic themselves the runaround or not.
The problem is that more and more people are aware of the Akamai issue, and they believe otherwise. Akamai has fared poorly in so many years and apparently delivered subpar service quality, so why wasn't it investigated early on, and why their contract hasn't been terminated accordingly? I'm pretty sure that if it had been seriously investigated and it wasn't the cause, Cryptic would have been able to make a statement along the line of "We investigated and found no fault." So basically all we know is that no investigation cleared Akamai so far. We don't know if an investigation concluded they were the culprit, nor do we know if it has been investigated at all.
Some people put big bucks in this game. I heard some actually put over $1k over the years. I've put about $400 in 2 years. So it's not the same as if an advertisement driven free-to-play solitaire game on the Google Store had connection issues. Players' frustration and growing discontentment is legitimate. And it's growing. We're not asking for an individually tailored game, but a game working as intended.
As I was getting into above, they're contracted by Cryptic's ISP and not Cryptic themselves. They can't just walk up to the internet servers and start poking around, they have to go through their ISP and their ISP will then have to talk to Akamai on Cryptic's behalf or perhaps with Cryptic there. Point being they can't just walk up to those servers when they please. Cryptic is having to through their ISP on this which is going to slow things down, with the ISP then having to talk to Akamai which is going to slow it down further. As to why the contract hasn't been terminated, it would depend on the contract and how it's worded etc. Not all contracts are the same and not all of them are as easy to break. Assuming Cryptic and their ISP wanted to remove Akamai from the picture, this again means the ISP would need to contract a new security company, and make sure they won't face the same issues as Akamai, then do a seamless switch. If Cryptic wanted to switch ISPs they would need to make sure their new ISP can supply what they need, and also isn't using Akamai or you're back to square one. They're not just sitting on their hands with this, I can assure you of that. Cryptic doesn't like this anymore than you or I do.
As for putting bucks into the game, the circumstances don't change money or not, they would still have to go through their ISP and so on. You're never going to have a 100% lag free game. No one is saying folks don't have a right to be annoyed with the lag, I don't like it either. But when you have situations like this they have to be handled right and with a certain bit of care involved.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Captains - we've heard your feedback that some of you are experiencing lag and rubberbanding more than usual in our game. Please take the time to fill out this survey so we can investigate the issue in detail.
bit.ly/2TDZcDB
I'd gladly take the survey if the link worked for me.
Tracing route to 208.95.186.17 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 38 ms 37 ms 37 ms ae50-ner001.msp.as13285.net [78.144.1.33]
3 37 ms 38 ms 38 ms ae50-scr001-msp.as13285.net [78.144.1.32]
4 43 ms 44 ms 42 ms host-78-144-9-21.as13285.net [78.144.9.21]
5 45 ms 45 ms 45 ms akamai.prolexic.com [195.66.236.31]
6 44 ms 44 ms 44 ms po111.bs-b.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.202]
7 45 ms 44 ms 44 ms a72-52-1-167.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.52.1.167]
8 45 ms 44 ms 44 ms ae121.access-a.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.205] <
9 * * * Request timed out. <
THIS
10 124 ms 123 ms 123 ms a72-52-27-212.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.52.27.212] <
11 130 ms 125 ms 126 ms 198.49.243.237
12 123 ms 122 ms 123 ms 208.95.186.17
You may notice step 9 in the hands of Akamai is where the hold up starts. This is just a route trace, when coping with STO hot bar traffic it translates in game to a much more hellish impact than the 123ms shown here. I play from the UK and the early years of STO my around time was 50-60 ms upto - 90ms on bad days. My network isp and equipment have improved since then and my experience has become worse. At present the Kobyashi Maru event often dissolves into a nonsense disappointment , where the server can attack, I can't heal myself or the Koby, massive lag spikes backwards , attack power sequences not been correctly recognised. We have Hot bars filled with powers which are becoming ineffective and that ruins an MMO experience.
Sincerely hope you can find a solution with Akamai , as this was my goto game since 2011 and now, its at the can i be bothered been disappointed by the rubberbanding / lag in feature events and even in some missions. Your art department keep coming up with more and more graphically intense features and animations which may look good on an intra net , but once on the internet it seems your features are not translating to the user experience as successfully through the server traffic solutions you deploy through.
Best wishes Scotty
Laddy, don't you think you should... rephrase that??
I just took the survey and did the tracert which I submitted. Since I'm in Sweden, Europe, I expect some lag especially when playing with my friends in the U.S., but lately lag has increased severely. The largest delay is not at Akamai but seems to be this:
11 355 ms 282 ms 279 ms 93.191.173.11
Apparently this is at Prolexic Technologies - Netherlands.
Hope that information is at all helpful.
I just took the survey and did the tracert which I submitted. Since I'm in Sweden, Europe, I expect some lag especially when playing with my friends in the U.S., but lately lag has increased severely. The largest delay is not at Akamai but seems to be this:
11 355 ms 282 ms 279 ms 93.191.173.11
Apparently this is at Prolexic Technologies - Netherlands.
Hope that information is at all helpful.
93.191.173.x is related to Akamai and seems to be the main cause of lag for a lot of people. That node has stood out as one of the main problems for years now.
I've already taken the survey, but something I noticed in the Arena of Sompek is a bit of rubber banding, right after you enter the antechamber, when you walk up to the emcee. It's notable because it's constrained in time and space, and it seems to happen consistently.
That happens all the time. I don't think it's rubberbanding. If you don't try to go right up to him or past him it doesn't happen. They want you to interact with him first at the appropriate distance.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Read the report if you want. Relevant parts at on page 14 (Mapping other characteristics of the network: Attacks, proxies, performance) and 16 (Compressed Sensing & Network Monitoring). Page 40 cracked me up, when the author refers to the squirrels as the "terrorists of the animal kingdom", and so did the author's parallel with fight squirrels and NSA's role in fighting spam and unsolicited pornography to keep the internet working and secure.
So let's get back to my comment a few posts earlier.
The problem with Akamai is that they haven't evolved a bit in about 12 years. That fail early 2000's data traffic compression is not meant for online gaming! It causes lag spikes when toying with the compression ratio or when turning compression on/off. That's when there's rubber banding happens. At any single time of the day: during the graveyard shift we get lag spikes from compression going on/off, while the rest of the day we get spikes from compression ratio increasing/decreasing.
And I am back to seeing the game freeze then rubberband me with some server not responding every 20-30 secs in the Dyson Battlezone.
Cryptic the performance of your game the past 2 years has been diabolical and despite this thread I'd bet my house on it that in a years time we will still be having exactly the same issues.
U.S Proxy used
1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms ttrouter [192.168.1.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms ae54-ner002.csm.as13285.net [78.144.1.19]
4 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms ae54-scr101.loh.as13285.net [78.144.1.18]
5 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms akamai.prolexic.com [195.66.224.31]
6 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms po110.bs-a.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.192]
7 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms a72-52-1-149.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.52.1.149]
8 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms ae120.access-a.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.197]
9 97 ms 90 ms 122 ms 93.191.173.11
10 91 ms 91 ms 91 ms a209-200-147-156.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [209.200.147.156]
11 107 ms 99 ms 96 ms 198.49.243.237
12 95 ms 95 ms 95 ms patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Tried to take survey but it doesn't allow me to send it lol. Seriously, this rubberbanding- and NOW getting disconnected from the server once per day since last week is getting out of hand....
That happens all the time. I don't think it's rubberbanding. If you don't try to go right up to him or past him it doesn't happen. They want you to interact with him first at the appropriate distance.
I get rubberbanding going up to the emcee. Consistently.
That happens all the time. I don't think it's rubberbanding. If you don't try to go right up to him or past him it doesn't happen. They want you to interact with him first at the appropriate distance.
I get rubberbanding going up to the emcee. Consistently.
That is not rubberbanding though. It is designed that way because the NPC pop-up box loads upon proximity to his character.
Try beaming into DS9 walking all the way down to Quarks, and find yourself rubber-banded back to the beam in spot.
I wonder if this is a rubber banding record.
Try beaming into DS9 walking all the way down to Quarks, and find yourself rubber-banded back to the beam in spot.
I wonder if this is a rubber banding record.
That's pretty impressive. My worse case of rubber banding was running down a corridor to a door, rubber banding backwards and then somehow ending up in an entirely different room on the floor above where I started. Distance wise it wasn't as far as yours but it wasn't half disorienting.
Comments
First of all, these things take time between the contract they have with Akamai Technologies and with the invisible enemy COVID-19 around that also causes unique issues as well. Has it ever occurred to you and others like you that between this thread, the user-created threads, and the lag issues thread that they are actually looking into this issue and are collecting information to bring to the cybersecurity firm's attention with the node info as well? Also, please do not flame Cryptic and jump to unwarranted conclusions and conspiracies against Cryptic. Most players know what node it is that is causing problems and I see what it is as well including yourself. Mention that node, wait, and continue to provide feedback with constructive criticism and not destructive criticism. I understand your frustration, I also do not like being SNRed, rubberbanded, etc. I especially had a lot of rubberbanding last night at the Vlugta Dilithium Mine. I have provided my tracerts and other stuff in the past and even have it narrowed to when the lag started to get really bad when the ground TFO Pahvo Dissension and I made a bug report on April 2019. Until this gets resolved, I will keep them bookmarked. Thanks.
Back when everything was ran by the infrastructure in Boston it was for the most part smooth and the change to Akamai has been a nightmare since day 1. You can only use the line "Has it ever occurred to you and others like you that between this thread, the user-created threads, and the lag issues thread that they are actually looking into this issue and are collecting information " for so long and after all these years we are well past that point for that line being valid anymore. Its perfectly understandable why so many players are so frustrated as its been going on far longer then reasonable. Even if they cannot fix it they should have at the very least made an official statement long before now explaining the problem. Instead all we get is the same data gathering time and time again. Its feels like an endless loop.
They never changed ISPs. Their ISP is still Cogent (and IMO Cogent isn't a great ISP either). They use Akami for their data security and content distribution network/cloud storage (Patches, etc.) And yes, since they went to Akami for Content distribution, game performance has suffered.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Now before folks say "but darkblade it's akamai because x", for alot of folks that may be true. However knowing where the problem lies is only half the battle. Akamai is a security company first and foremost that is contracted through Cryptic's ISP to provide DDoS security to their clients. In the event a DDoS is detected or it thinks a DDoS is detected, their systems slow down traffic to give time for the end users to mount a defense. Legitimate MMO traffic can sometimes appear as a DDoS due to the nature of how they both work. Each time you try to log into the game your rig pings the server attempting to establish communications. The server then sends back a response asking for the credentials to the account you wish to log into. You then feed this info the server which checks that everything matches and then lets you on when it does. A server can only handle so many active communication requests and tasks at once before they bog down. If everyone is slamming a server trying to log in at once, this can appear as a DDoS due to the massive amount of pings hitting the server to the point it can't keep up. This is what happened to World of Warcraft several years ago when they thought they had a DDoS on launch day, but it was just folks trying to get into the game when they looked deeper. A DDoS is an attack that pings the server constantly and attempts to bog it down by sending more data and ping requests than the server can process, much like trying to backup traffic on a busy freeway by intentionally going as slow as possible or so on. Until one looks under the hood a DDoS can sometimes be hard to tell from legitimate traffic.
Cryptic and other businesses must have security in place to protect their customers and business alike, otherwise all of our information would always be at risk and we would never be able to play. In this instance Cryptic has to go through their ISP to get stuff sorted with Akamai and others. The problem Akamai faces is how they can open up for more traffic to get to STO so it's not being constantly throttled, without opening up the game to DDoS attacks or other clients on the ISP. Some folks might say "well why don't they just find another ISP." While that's a valid question, all of their ducks must be in a row if they wanted to make a seamless transition to the new ISP. They would also need to make sure that this new hypothetical ISP can meet their needs and provide security for them. They would also need to make sure the new ISP isn't using Akamai either, or you're back to square one again.
Overall it's not as simple as people think. Knowing what to fix is one thing, knowing how to fix it is something else. It's not always as simple as flipping a switch as much as we all wish it were. If Cryptic's ISP and/or Akamai wanted to say there is no issue, doing these reports and similar gives Cryptic ammo to say "yes there is an issue, here is the evidence." They don't like this anymore than you or I do and it will be fixed, though it may not be as fast as we may like it to be.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
It feels like we players have established a clear link of where one of the key problem areas is which has been confirmed by other players in other MMO's but years later and we are in the dark with no official response and still having the same lines about needing more time and needing more ammo. We are fast coming up to 3 years of this Akamai problem and some of the other lag goes back even further. Its very frustrating as a player to hear after almost 3 years that we need to give more time. Its worrying that we could still have this problem 4 or 5 years down the line from when it started. Its causing harm to the game which is the last thing any of us want.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
The link is in the first post! Just copy and paste it.
I never suggested anyone wanted the security turned off, I was making the point as to why it's needed. Again keep in mind Akamai is contracted by Cryptic's ISP and NOT by Cryptic themselves. So the servers Cryptic would need to check for this kind of stuff, they don't have ready access to and need to go through their ISP. Plenty of companies also have security a little upstream from them on the datastream itself now. This is meant to hopefully intercept a DDoS before it can do alot of damage. Think of it like setting up a filter at a point where a river splits off vs individual branches of the river. The idea is to protect all the subsequent river paths with one filter instead of needing several smaller ones. Since Cryptic doesn't own the filter or the particular branch of the river they're on, they have to go through the proper owners to verify what's going on. This is part of why it's important they have sufficient ammo to demonstrate issues. We have no way of knowing if Akamai is giving Cryptic's ISP and Cryptic themselves the runaround or not.
As I was getting into above, they're contracted by Cryptic's ISP and not Cryptic themselves. They can't just walk up to the internet servers and start poking around, they have to go through their ISP and their ISP will then have to talk to Akamai on Cryptic's behalf or perhaps with Cryptic there. Point being they can't just walk up to those servers when they please. Cryptic is having to through their ISP on this which is going to slow things down, with the ISP then having to talk to Akamai which is going to slow it down further. As to why the contract hasn't been terminated, it would depend on the contract and how it's worded etc. Not all contracts are the same and not all of them are as easy to break. Assuming Cryptic and their ISP wanted to remove Akamai from the picture, this again means the ISP would need to contract a new security company, and make sure they won't face the same issues as Akamai, then do a seamless switch. If Cryptic wanted to switch ISPs they would need to make sure their new ISP can supply what they need, and also isn't using Akamai or you're back to square one. They're not just sitting on their hands with this, I can assure you of that. Cryptic doesn't like this anymore than you or I do.
As for putting bucks into the game, the circumstances don't change money or not, they would still have to go through their ISP and so on. You're never going to have a 100% lag free game. No one is saying folks don't have a right to be annoyed with the lag, I don't like it either. But when you have situations like this they have to be handled right and with a certain bit of care involved.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I'd gladly take the survey if the link worked for me.
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 38 ms 37 ms 37 ms ae50-ner001.msp.as13285.net [78.144.1.33]
3 37 ms 38 ms 38 ms ae50-scr001-msp.as13285.net [78.144.1.32]
4 43 ms 44 ms 42 ms host-78-144-9-21.as13285.net [78.144.9.21]
5 45 ms 45 ms 45 ms akamai.prolexic.com [195.66.236.31]
6 44 ms 44 ms 44 ms po111.bs-b.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.202]
7 45 ms 44 ms 44 ms a72-52-1-167.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.52.1.167]
8 45 ms 44 ms 44 ms ae121.access-a.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.205] <
9 * * * Request timed out. <
THIS
10 124 ms 123 ms 123 ms a72-52-27-212.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.52.27.212] <
11 130 ms 125 ms 126 ms 198.49.243.237
12 123 ms 122 ms 123 ms 208.95.186.17
You may notice step 9 in the hands of Akamai is where the hold up starts. This is just a route trace, when coping with STO hot bar traffic it translates in game to a much more hellish impact than the 123ms shown here. I play from the UK and the early years of STO my around time was 50-60 ms upto - 90ms on bad days. My network isp and equipment have improved since then and my experience has become worse. At present the Kobyashi Maru event often dissolves into a nonsense disappointment , where the server can attack, I can't heal myself or the Koby, massive lag spikes backwards , attack power sequences not been correctly recognised. We have Hot bars filled with powers which are becoming ineffective and that ruins an MMO experience.
Sincerely hope you can find a solution with Akamai , as this was my goto game since 2011 and now, its at the can i be bothered been disappointed by the rubberbanding / lag in feature events and even in some missions. Your art department keep coming up with more and more graphically intense features and animations which may look good on an intra net , but once on the internet it seems your features are not translating to the user experience as successfully through the server traffic solutions you deploy through.
Best wishes Scotty
11 355 ms 282 ms 279 ms 93.191.173.11
Apparently this is at Prolexic Technologies - Netherlands.
Hope that information is at all helpful.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Fascinating!
Cryptic the performance of your game the past 2 years has been diabolical and despite this thread I'd bet my house on it that in a years time we will still be having exactly the same issues.
U.S Proxy used
1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms ttrouter [192.168.1.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms ae54-ner002.csm.as13285.net [78.144.1.19]
4 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms ae54-scr101.loh.as13285.net [78.144.1.18]
5 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms akamai.prolexic.com [195.66.224.31]
6 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms po110.bs-a.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.192]
7 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms a72-52-1-149.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.52.1.149]
8 14 ms 13 ms 13 ms ae120.access-a.sech-lon2.netarch.akamai.com [72.52.60.197]
9 97 ms 90 ms 122 ms 93.191.173.11
10 91 ms 91 ms 91 ms a209-200-147-156.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [209.200.147.156]
11 107 ms 99 ms 96 ms 198.49.243.237
12 95 ms 95 ms 95 ms patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
I get rubberbanding going up to the emcee. Consistently.
That is not rubberbanding though. It is designed that way because the NPC pop-up box loads upon proximity to his character.
I wonder if this is a rubber banding record.