And if anyone really is willing to drop 17k zen on a formerly free or lockbox ship, that's on them. They choose to do that rather than waiting for the sales to come out where the price is cut drastically on those same ships and other things in there.
If you think Cryptic REALLY thinks people will drop that much zen on formerly free stuff, then I don't know...cause I don't think that they think people are going to do that.
Right cause.... 8000 zen for one former free ship is much more sane. Yes believe me people pay the silly price as well... not many of course but some do. Frankly even the 50% sale is still nuts. Cryptic knows their market. Those free ships and event consoles for 8k zen a piece are not marketed to you and me, playing in game jumping up our endeavor rank every day and a half. Obviously the people buying previous event items for 80-170 dollars depending on the sale... are not going to have large amounts of endeavor done. That is why I would suggest Cryptic consider an alternate way to earn the points.... as those types of players are obviously extremely lucrative. Still most of them do have a cut of point where they say I'll spend 200 or 300 bucks coming back to catch up but I draw the line at 4 or 5. The more I think about it the more I would say IF it where my game, I would add endeavor points to Mudd items especially when there on sale. Perhaps when they do a 50% mudd store sale... offer a 25 point box with them.
Cryptic has offered the take a break... and hey I can spend to skip grind players ways to do that for years. IMO for what they are now asking of those players with the clearly designed to appeal to them if they miss them releases the last couple years. Then its in their interest not to remind those whales on their huds every time they log in that there is a system that isn't for sale. If Cryptic is going to go full ferengi just go full ferengi.
I honestly think those things are more likely there for those who have nothing else to spend their dil and/or zen (stipend or otherwise) on.
I mean, seriously, who would come back and drop... what, $170?... on a *single* game item?
A 8,000 zen (on sale) past event ship... is 16 months of stipend. I hope no one is really saving for almost a year and a half to unlock one event ship. Trust me people pay those mudd prices. (even the non sale ones) I know 4 or 5 of those folks personalty... they have no issue spending 500 or more on a game every month if there enjoying it. Believe it or not their are some well to do folks that are also into games and trek. Hey that isn't me... I got enough kids and grandkids that all my disposable income evaporates. lol
> @rck01 said: > Dear Devs, > > As a long-time player of STO (Joined in Feb, 2012), I've had the privilege of meeting some truly excellent people. And as is the case with any long-running MMO, many of these players have come and gone as interests and real-life situations change/evolve. However, with the advent of the COVID-19 crisis, I've seen a resurgence in interest in the game, especially among veteran players who may have been away for a few years. And while many are initially excited by the numerous changes to the game meta and the related options such updates bring, they all inevitably get discouraged when they encounter the Endeavor system. > > In fact, I believe the time-gated nature of the Endeavor system - where you must play for YEARS with no way to accelerate the process regardless of how hard you grind - has become the single biggest obstacle to new or returning player participation in STO. The discovery that there exists a massive, unassailable skill divide between yourself and others who have played the game longer or more consistently is killing interest in the game and keeping veteran players from coming back to the STO community. > > Given the above, I propose the following simple modifications to the Endeavor system: > > 1. Remove the time-gating and instead tie the system to the Experience mechanic. > 2. Modify the "Exp Bar" rewards for players who've reached Level 65 so that each "pass" through the bar provides an option to receive *either* a Specialization Point or an Endeavor Point (or Dilithium, assuming the maximum number of Spec points has been obtained). > > Note: By tying the Endeavor progression into the Exp system, Cryptic will increase the demand for Zen-store "XP Boost" items and related promotions, thus providing a potential revenue channel for recouping the (likely) minor investment in code re-engineering that the aforementioned tweaks would require. > > Bottom Line: The above modifications would go a long way towards making the game more approachable to new players and encourage veteran players to return to the game and potentially open their wallets and purses while increasing overall participation in events and seasonal activities. > > Thank you for considering my proposal. > > RCK01 - a.k.a. "Evul Jacob/Cuddly Jacob" - Hax Pandas/Sad Pandas PvP
You come back to the game, you cry about having to grind mmo content. Could you be any further from common sense?
You're forgetting. It's not about the destination, it is instead about the journey. The endeavours are a great way to keep you engaged in the game using periodically available rewards with a lockout to help prevent burnout and to emphasise the importance of not missing these endeavour bonuses. The same can't be said for an experience system. Rewards would feel more like insults when you're burnt out so the joy of completing game content would soon turn sour in this case.
Get your skates on and go kill some Tzenkethi, deal antiproton damage and make sure you salvage the loot.
And just to be clear, every seemingly OP source of powers, be it endeavour, tac captain, domino , dprm etc. are only minor sources of damage when you factor in everything else. To say that acquisition of any one of these sets you apart from the rest of players in any practical way is just non sensical.
Do what you enjoy, if you can't or don't have what it takes: Grind Grind Grind, or it'll grind you! 🖖
Having come back to the game, players should welcome the Endeavor's! They might only take 10-25 minutes on average to complete, and many rewards encourage them being done. I think those who don't spend a little time doing them, and then can only cry fowl is really sad, mostly because it keeps players engaged and gives you something to focus on.
Now I admit it won't see any fast or quick gains, yet I think this is one of the best systems I've seen. Because it focuses on rewarding those who invest a little time over repeated efforts!
And if anyone really is willing to drop 17k zen on a formerly free or lockbox ship, that's on them. They choose to do that rather than waiting for the sales to come out where the price is cut drastically on those same ships and other things in there.
If you think Cryptic REALLY thinks people will drop that much zen on formerly free stuff, then I don't know...cause I don't think that they think people are going to do that.
Right cause.... 8000 zen for one former free ship is much more sane. Yes believe me people pay the silly price as well... not many of course but some do. Frankly even the 50% sale is still nuts.
Yes, 8k is more sane.
And I did say that anyone who willingly paid an insane 17k, that it was on them.
Still, it's Mudd's Market, so his prices are bound to be a little insane.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Well, now that the Stealing Time Bundle is in the Store permanently, as Kael said, we probably have seen the end of those 80% off sales. If you do get those 80%/85% off sales, they will be directly targeted at certain Mudd's Market items only.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Somehow I can't imagine another mmorpg game where I would come back after two years and the only difference would be +30% dmg, +7.5 crth, +30 crtD (and only hardcore players have this full bonus). For example, I still use the same (omega) set that came out eight years ago and is still usable on elite missions. I fly with 5 years old t5 jem dread. I think I can do all elite content in this game with two years old (or even older) stuff. Show me another mmorpg game where you can do this.
However, I'm sure over time they will make some endeavor boost for the money.
Anyway true powercreep is in expensive starship traits and consoles.
BDO...but the progression system in that game is so toxic that you can LOSE progression by playing.
this made me curious. I've seen systems for PvP ranking where only success matters and you go down the leaderboard any time you fail for any reason.
How exactly does endeavor put off new players exactly?
I am a new player, more or less, started during the 10th anniversary event and, honestly, I don't really notice it at all. I sometimes work of the endeavors, sometimes ignore them but it's not a feature I think about.
More interested in getting my Chargh's disruptor build finished tbh
I can't see how it could put off new players. It's a nice system that rewards you just for playing the game. I regularly find that I've completed an endeavor even without directly trying to.
When I am playing to complete an endeavor I often find myself exploring parts of the game I might not normally and actually having fun and even meeting old friends.
Given that I've only progressed about 1/4 the way as compared to maximum progress I still find and think it's a nice gradual reward.
The OP originally linked endeavors to causing issues specifically for PvP, but hasn't been heard from since page 1. The thread has morphed somewhat since then.
Somehow I can't imagine another mmorpg game where I would come back after two years and the only difference would be +30% dmg, +7.5 crth, +30 crtD (and only hardcore players have this full bonus). For example, I still use the same (omega) set that came out eight years ago and is still usable on elite missions. I fly with 5 years old t5 jem dread. I think I can do all elite content in this game with two years old (or even older) stuff. Show me another mmorpg game where you can do this.
However, I'm sure over time they will make some endeavor boost for the money.
Anyway true powercreep is in expensive starship traits and consoles.
BDO...but the progression system in that game is so toxic that you can LOSE progression by playing.
this made me curious. I've seen systems for PvP ranking where only success matters and you go down the leaderboard any time you fail for any reason.
So...in BDO, you progress in gear...aka power...by enhancing your gear through 20 levels. Each time you fail you damage the item's max durability...which can be repaired with the same item or an item worth around a 1 million silver. When you are looking at end game level items, you are looking at spending either 60-100 million silver to repair 10 durability...or those 1 million items for 1 durability. Up to +15 reduces durability by 5 of a failure and 16-20 is 10. Now the fun part...past +16, each time you fail to enhance the item, not only does the durability drop, you lose a level of enhancement. And enhancing accessories is even more fun in that when you fail those, it blow up...but that only has 5 levels of enhancement You can quite literally lose progress if you don't use back up items by playing the game. And because basically nobody in the US has max gear and what is considered soft cap has moved VERY little over the years because of the stupid progression system, you can take long breaks and hold your progression in games. In fact there are many cases of people coming back and seeing people they use to play with who continued to play get frustrated and use both their main and back up gear and are now worse than the player who left and stopped. The advice in that game is if you feel stuck and frustrated, walk away for a while to cool off and come back. Your progress will still be there when you do.
Ah, I see. So the right way to upgrade in that game is to get a giant pile of stuff so that you have a bunch of spare parts in case you fail?
Somehow I can't imagine another mmorpg game where I would come back after two years and the only difference would be +30% dmg, +7.5 crth, +30 crtD (and only hardcore players have this full bonus). For example, I still use the same (omega) set that came out eight years ago and is still usable on elite missions. I fly with 5 years old t5 jem dread. I think I can do all elite content in this game with two years old (or even older) stuff. Show me another mmorpg game where you can do this.
However, I'm sure over time they will make some endeavor boost for the money.
Anyway true powercreep is in expensive starship traits and consoles.
BDO...but the progression system in that game is so toxic that you can LOSE progression by playing.
this made me curious. I've seen systems for PvP ranking where only success matters and you go down the leaderboard any time you fail for any reason.
So...in BDO, you progress in gear...aka power...by enhancing your gear through 20 levels. Each time you fail you damage the item's max durability...which can be repaired with the same item or an item worth around a 1 million silver. When you are looking at end game level items, you are looking at spending either 60-100 million silver to repair 10 durability...or those 1 million items for 1 durability. Up to +15 reduces durability by 5 of a failure and 16-20 is 10. Now the fun part...past +16, each time you fail to enhance the item, not only does the durability drop, you lose a level of enhancement. And enhancing accessories is even more fun in that when you fail those, it blow up...but that only has 5 levels of enhancement You can quite literally lose progress if you don't use back up items by playing the game. And because basically nobody in the US has max gear and what is considered soft cap has moved VERY little over the years because of the stupid progression system, you can take long breaks and hold your progression in games. In fact there are many cases of people coming back and seeing people they use to play with who continued to play get frustrated and use both their main and back up gear and are now worse than the player who left and stopped. The advice in that game is if you feel stuck and frustrated, walk away for a while to cool off and come back. Your progress will still be there when you do.
That sounds like about as much fun as a route canal.
> @coldnapalm said: > You all realize that the Mudd market stuff gets discounted HEAVILY at times...right? something like 70% off...right? They don't expect you to buy them at the regular price.
You realise they're still terrible value at discount
As a long-time player of STO (Joined in Feb, 2012), I've had the privilege of meeting some truly excellent people. And as is the case with any long-running MMO, many of these players have come and gone as interests and real-life situations change/evolve. However, with the advent of the COVID-19 crisis, I've seen a resurgence in interest in the game, especially among veteran players who may have been away for a few years. And while many are initially excited by the numerous changes to the game meta and the related options such updates bring, they all inevitably get discouraged when they encounter the Endeavor system.
In fact, I believe the time-gated nature of the Endeavor system - where you must play for YEARS with no way to accelerate the process regardless of how hard you grind - has become the single biggest obstacle to new or returning player participation in STO. The discovery that there exists a massive, unassailable skill divide between yourself and others who have played the game longer or more consistently is killing interest in the game and keeping veteran players from coming back to the STO community.
I'm having a hard time believing the Endeavor system is a real deal breaker here. Yes, it's time gated, that's its purpose: to make you log in day after day for the game's metrics. And if PWE decide they are no longer seeing metrics they like they might well pull the plug. But you aren't forced to do any of them, nor do you need to, and frankly the difference Endeavor perks make is a drop in the ocean in a game where some players are doing 50x the damage of others.
Sorry, but this is the nature of a live MMO type game, you miss stuff if you are gone.
Now maybe they could sell you a booster in the C-store?
Say it gives you +2 or +3 boost in every category? While that won't help a lot in boosting the 'good' categories, it really is a HUGE number of points you won't have to farm in the long run.
If you can buy a boost of 2-3 points to each of the 30 categories, that would be like a 60-90 day leap for returning players. That should be sufficient catch up. And Cryptic has another thing to sell.
I've got 260 points right now. I don't do everything I can to get points, but I try to do the best 2 everyday. 11 of mine are at max. 6 are half filled to almost filled. 13 are less than half filled to totally empty.
That's a bit of time I've put towards that, why should a returning player not have to put in some time to get buffed up too?
sooo the OP wants to nerf the endeavor system because it makes the game "Harder" for returning players? if that's the path, then lets nerf all the Fleet consoles and traits, and / or make all the exclusives for fleet types available to causal players through the dilithium store.. but since the OP is in a fleet he will say no way to that...
We let people jump into our Max level Fleets (Fed and KDF) all the time to grab pets consoles deflectors colony doffs ect ect. So no he would not care. We leveled our fleet and we don't really care if new players get the same access. We run a feeder fleet that has provisions for everything unlocked and toss those new friends invites to the main base all the time.
No Rck has created the thread and I have posted here... cause yes like most people we have seen some very old friends pop back into the game lately. Just last night another of my very old launch friends popped in, hasn't been in game in over 3 years till last night. So as I have no doubt most 10 year long players have been dealing with the last 2 months we get tons of questions about the new (to them) systems. It makes you realize how many things we take for granted when things change a few things at a time over years. We as a fleet have been lucky we are not a large group... we are a very small fleet in fact. We have been lucky to have a handful of players that dedicated to the game, and a few that also have deep pockets. Our fleet was completed with the help of cold hard cash and I don't care who knows it. We don't begrudge anyone what they have in game.. including endeavor stuff. Rck first suggestion was to allow people to grind tying it to the XP bar. That is one solution... I would say its easier to convince Cryptic to add a $ for points scheme. Either way works imo... it gives returning players away to catch up. As you can P2W xp points with lockbox doff missions.
Yes we are selfish... it would be nice when our old friends pop in for a few weeks every year or two they decide to stick around for a few months or more. I doubt we are the only long time players in the same boat.
you miss the point. Nixie is saying nerf the advantages of the VOLUNTARY fleet stuff, because you want to nerf the VOLUNTARY endeavor stuff. when it comes down to it, the endeavor perks are no where near as game changing as the DPS consoles from the fleet. I have a toon I play that has no specs, just the skill tree. the ship doesn't have traits. and yes it's a bear to play that way but it's very do-able. I can't charge in and BFAW my way back out, I have to stay on the edge of battle and pick them off.
Next time I may go one better, and use only what the game gives me. no exchange, no crafting, not even boff training.
So just as a counterpoint to @husanakx message above: there are a lot of players who play casually. A lot more of them than there are whales. There are some whales who can't play all the time and so they use dollars to catch up. There are a lot more players who can't use dollars to catch up, but who can afford to play fairly consistently to stay competitive.
It's strange that someone would think having "all system buyable for dollars except this one" would be a significant problem, but not notice that maybe there's a much larger audience "most turned off by" a game that looks rather Pay-To-Win in some key areas (traits, consoles, gear) and that doesn't equally reward consistent gameplay.
Personally I'd think that having a number of systems being dollar-based, and some systems being participation-based, is exactly where a successful game would want to be. You're always going to get some people put off by the P2W parts, and some put off by the 'play every day' parts, but a decent balance there will get the most players playing and paying and happy with it.
That has always been Cryptics greatest strength. How they avoid any serious P2W finger pointing. Everything in STO can be had with sweat equity. There isn't anything in this game you can't get for free... by grinding it, or grinding the games dilithium resource to trade for zen with the come and go folks. (that is where all the zen for the "f2p" dil farmers comes from) someone buys it with $ so they don't have to spend time farming dilithum.
IMO the endeavor system doesn't need to be nerfed or removed or anything of the sort. I still believe it was a mistake to a system that will sit on players HUDs reminding Cryptics whales that they are not getting the full meal deal for their large spends. My suggestion would be to simply add options to buy Endeavor points somehow. I don't care what it is... add it to the larger ship packs. Throw a 5 point pack in with every ship bundle. Or add a 1-3 points in when you open a Promo pack.
i think the only exception is that you cannot grind out the lifetime.. pretty sure you still have to pay at least a buck fifty for it
> @coldnapalm said:
> You all realize that the Mudd market stuff gets discounted HEAVILY at times...right? something like 70% off...right? They don't expect you to buy them at the regular price.
You realise they're still terrible value at discount
I don't care about the source of a T6 ship. I consider them all to have a 'true' value to be $30 because that's the going rate of a C-store T6. Mudd's Market is a scam of course. Mark stuff up 600% (or more) then have a 50%-80% sale... You are still paying more than I'd consider normal price. Now if you feel it's worth it, go ahead and buy it. It's your money.
And if anyone really is willing to drop 17k zen on a formerly free or lockbox ship, that's on them. They choose to do that rather than waiting for the sales to come out where the price is cut drastically on those same ships and other things in there.
If you think Cryptic REALLY thinks people will drop that much zen on formerly free stuff, then I don't know...cause I don't think that they think people are going to do that.
Right cause.... 8000 zen for one former free ship is much more sane. Yes believe me people pay the silly price as well... not many of course but some do. Frankly even the 50% sale is still nuts.
Yes, 8k is more sane.
And I did say that anyone who willingly paid an insane 17k, that it was on them.
Still, it's Mudd's Market, so his prices are bound to be a little insane.
does mudds market ship char unlock or acct? IIRC the temporal destroyer was a lockbox. char unlock. if I can pay 8k for an account unlock I just might. yes, i am one of those sexy space whales. and yes I play at least a couple times a week, so the theory that all the whales come and go every few years is nonsense.. and to quote another person, as if it give any sort of weight, I know several people who will buy Zen to level up a weapon, or buy a ship, or just not have to do the last three freaking days of a 21 day grind.. and we all play a few times a week.. there are no absolutes or stereotypes in this game, and nothing should be taken away or nerfed unless it's completely game breaking
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Personally, I like the endeavors. It gives me something to do between new content releases. The only I wish they would do is add more variety. I mean, it's like I get the same missions over and over again; Kill Voth/Vaadwaur/Gorn/Tzenkethi/Tholian/Terran, destroy Voth/Terran/Iconian/Tzenkethi/Tholian ships. You would think they would be able to add an kill/destroy ship endeavor for every enemy type in the game.
Well, on the other hand, systems not the Endeavor System are discouraging. The other night I went into the Gon'Cha BZ for an Endeavor. Kill 30 Tzen'kethi Ships. New Ship. 0 Mastery. Did the Endeavor. Killed more than 30 Ships. 0 Mastery coming out.
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Somehow I can't imagine another mmorpg game where I would come back after two years and the only difference would be +30% dmg, +7.5 crth, +30 crtD (and only hardcore players have this full bonus). For example, I still use the same (omega) set that came out eight years ago and is still usable on elite missions. I fly with 5 years old t5 jem dread. I think I can do all elite content in this game with two years old (or even older) stuff. Show me another mmorpg game where you can do this.
However, I'm sure over time they will make some endeavor boost for the money.
Anyway true powercreep is in expensive starship traits and consoles.
BDO...but the progression system in that game is so toxic that you can LOSE progression by playing.
this made me curious. I've seen systems for PvP ranking where only success matters and you go down the leaderboard any time you fail for any reason.
So...in BDO, you progress in gear...aka power...by enhancing your gear through 20 levels. Each time you fail you damage the item's max durability...which can be repaired with the same item or an item worth around a 1 million silver. When you are looking at end game level items, you are looking at spending either 60-100 million silver to repair 10 durability...or those 1 million items for 1 durability. Up to +15 reduces durability by 5 of a failure and 16-20 is 10. Now the fun part...past +16, each time you fail to enhance the item, not only does the durability drop, you lose a level of enhancement. And enhancing accessories is even more fun in that when you fail those, it blow up...but that only has 5 levels of enhancement You can quite literally lose progress if you don't use back up items by playing the game. And because basically nobody in the US has max gear and what is considered soft cap has moved VERY little over the years because of the stupid progression system, you can take long breaks and hold your progression in games. In fact there are many cases of people coming back and seeing people they use to play with who continued to play get frustrated and use both their main and back up gear and are now worse than the player who left and stopped. The advice in that game is if you feel stuck and frustrated, walk away for a while to cool off and come back. Your progress will still be there when you do.
That sounds like about as much fun as a route canal.
No...root canals are way more enjoyable. You haven't even heard the percentages. The last enhancement level starts at .33% and after you failed enhancing some 200 times, that goes up to a whole 6%. It's great and the players loves it. I have seen people go though what they collect in a years in mere seconds. And you know...quit. Because that is what you do when you lose literally years of progress. But hey, it's a system where you can walk away...come back and keep your progress...because nobody outside of Korea is maxing that out. Oh yeah...Korea have players that have max gear. But they are insane and spend literally 6 figures on that game to do it...so...yeah....
Yeah that seems to be a cultural difference there since from what I've heard the Koreans and Japanese seem to love that kind of gameplay, but in the West it goes over about as well as a TRIBBLE in a packed elevator.
The endeavor system is kinda pointless and makes little difference in game play. For example OmegaFighter has said he doesn't even bother doing them. I don't know any returning players that are bothered by it, in fact it is the opposite.
...IMO the endeavor system doesn't need to be nerfed or removed or anything of the sort. I still believe it was a mistake to a system that will sit on players HUDs reminding Cryptics whales that they are not getting the full meal deal for their large spends. My suggestion would be to simply add options to buy Endeavor points somehow. I don't care what it is... add it to the larger ship packs. Throw a 5 point pack in with every ship bundle. Or add a 1-3 points in when you open a Promo pack.
Comments
Right cause.... 8000 zen for one former free ship is much more sane. Yes believe me people pay the silly price as well... not many of course but some do. Frankly even the 50% sale is still nuts. Cryptic knows their market. Those free ships and event consoles for 8k zen a piece are not marketed to you and me, playing in game jumping up our endeavor rank every day and a half. Obviously the people buying previous event items for 80-170 dollars depending on the sale... are not going to have large amounts of endeavor done. That is why I would suggest Cryptic consider an alternate way to earn the points.... as those types of players are obviously extremely lucrative. Still most of them do have a cut of point where they say I'll spend 200 or 300 bucks coming back to catch up but I draw the line at 4 or 5. The more I think about it the more I would say IF it where my game, I would add endeavor points to Mudd items especially when there on sale. Perhaps when they do a 50% mudd store sale... offer a 25 point box with them.
Cryptic has offered the take a break... and hey I can spend to skip grind players ways to do that for years. IMO for what they are now asking of those players with the clearly designed to appeal to them if they miss them releases the last couple years. Then its in their interest not to remind those whales on their huds every time they log in that there is a system that isn't for sale. If Cryptic is going to go full ferengi just go full ferengi.
A 8,000 zen (on sale) past event ship... is 16 months of stipend. I hope no one is really saving for almost a year and a half to unlock one event ship. Trust me people pay those mudd prices. (even the non sale ones) I know 4 or 5 of those folks personalty... they have no issue spending 500 or more on a game every month if there enjoying it. Believe it or not their are some well to do folks that are also into games and trek. Hey that isn't me... I got enough kids and grandkids that all my disposable income evaporates. lol
> Dear Devs,
>
> As a long-time player of STO (Joined in Feb, 2012), I've had the privilege of meeting some truly excellent people. And as is the case with any long-running MMO, many of these players have come and gone as interests and real-life situations change/evolve. However, with the advent of the COVID-19 crisis, I've seen a resurgence in interest in the game, especially among veteran players who may have been away for a few years. And while many are initially excited by the numerous changes to the game meta and the related options such updates bring, they all inevitably get discouraged when they encounter the Endeavor system.
>
> In fact, I believe the time-gated nature of the Endeavor system - where you must play for YEARS with no way to accelerate the process regardless of how hard you grind - has become the single biggest obstacle to new or returning player participation in STO. The discovery that there exists a massive, unassailable skill divide between yourself and others who have played the game longer or more consistently is killing interest in the game and keeping veteran players from coming back to the STO community.
>
> Given the above, I propose the following simple modifications to the Endeavor system:
>
> 1. Remove the time-gating and instead tie the system to the Experience mechanic.
> 2. Modify the "Exp Bar" rewards for players who've reached Level 65 so that each "pass" through the bar provides an option to receive *either* a Specialization Point or an Endeavor Point (or Dilithium, assuming the maximum number of Spec points has been obtained).
>
> Note: By tying the Endeavor progression into the Exp system, Cryptic will increase the demand for Zen-store "XP Boost" items and related promotions, thus providing a potential revenue channel for recouping the (likely) minor investment in code re-engineering that the aforementioned tweaks would require.
>
> Bottom Line: The above modifications would go a long way towards making the game more approachable to new players and encourage veteran players to return to the game and potentially open their wallets and purses while increasing overall participation in events and seasonal activities.
>
> Thank you for considering my proposal.
>
> RCK01 - a.k.a. "Evul Jacob/Cuddly Jacob" - Hax Pandas/Sad Pandas PvP
You come back to the game, you cry about having to grind mmo content. Could you be any further from common sense?
You're forgetting. It's not about the destination, it is instead about the journey. The endeavours are a great way to keep you engaged in the game using periodically available rewards with a lockout to help prevent burnout and to emphasise the importance of not missing these endeavour bonuses. The same can't be said for an experience system. Rewards would feel more like insults when you're burnt out so the joy of completing game content would soon turn sour in this case.
Get your skates on and go kill some Tzenkethi, deal antiproton damage and make sure you salvage the loot.
And just to be clear, every seemingly OP source of powers, be it endeavour, tac captain, domino , dprm etc. are only minor sources of damage when you factor in everything else. To say that acquisition of any one of these sets you apart from the rest of players in any practical way is just non sensical.
Do what you enjoy, if you can't or don't have what it takes: Grind Grind Grind, or it'll grind you! 🖖
Having come back to the game, players should welcome the Endeavor's! They might only take 10-25 minutes on average to complete, and many rewards encourage them being done. I think those who don't spend a little time doing them, and then can only cry fowl is really sad, mostly because it keeps players engaged and gives you something to focus on.
Now I admit it won't see any fast or quick gains, yet I think this is one of the best systems I've seen. Because it focuses on rewarding those who invest a little time over repeated efforts!
Yes, 8k is more sane.
And I did say that anyone who willingly paid an insane 17k, that it was on them.
Still, it's Mudd's Market, so his prices are bound to be a little insane.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
I am a new player, more or less, started during the 10th anniversary event and, honestly, I don't really notice it at all. I sometimes work of the endeavors, sometimes ignore them but it's not a feature I think about.
More interested in getting my Chargh's disruptor build finished tbh
When I am playing to complete an endeavor I often find myself exploring parts of the game I might not normally and actually having fun and even meeting old friends.
Given that I've only progressed about 1/4 the way as compared to maximum progress I still find and think it's a nice gradual reward.
The OP originally linked endeavors to causing issues specifically for PvP, but hasn't been heard from since page 1. The thread has morphed somewhat since then.
^^ This.
My character Tsin'xing
That sounds like about as much fun as a route canal.
> You all realize that the Mudd market stuff gets discounted HEAVILY at times...right? something like 70% off...right? They don't expect you to buy them at the regular price.
You realise they're still terrible value at discount
I'm having a hard time believing the Endeavor system is a real deal breaker here. Yes, it's time gated, that's its purpose: to make you log in day after day for the game's metrics. And if PWE decide they are no longer seeing metrics they like they might well pull the plug. But you aren't forced to do any of them, nor do you need to, and frankly the difference Endeavor perks make is a drop in the ocean in a game where some players are doing 50x the damage of others.
But I respawn
I am duranium!
Now maybe they could sell you a booster in the C-store?
Say it gives you +2 or +3 boost in every category? While that won't help a lot in boosting the 'good' categories, it really is a HUGE number of points you won't have to farm in the long run.
If you can buy a boost of 2-3 points to each of the 30 categories, that would be like a 60-90 day leap for returning players. That should be sufficient catch up. And Cryptic has another thing to sell.
I've got 260 points right now. I don't do everything I can to get points, but I try to do the best 2 everyday. 11 of mine are at max. 6 are half filled to almost filled. 13 are less than half filled to totally empty.
That's a bit of time I've put towards that, why should a returning player not have to put in some time to get buffed up too?
you miss the point. Nixie is saying nerf the advantages of the VOLUNTARY fleet stuff, because you want to nerf the VOLUNTARY endeavor stuff. when it comes down to it, the endeavor perks are no where near as game changing as the DPS consoles from the fleet. I have a toon I play that has no specs, just the skill tree. the ship doesn't have traits. and yes it's a bear to play that way but it's very do-able. I can't charge in and BFAW my way back out, I have to stay on the edge of battle and pick them off.
Next time I may go one better, and use only what the game gives me. no exchange, no crafting, not even boff training.
i think the only exception is that you cannot grind out the lifetime.. pretty sure you still have to pay at least a buck fifty for it
I don't care about the source of a T6 ship. I consider them all to have a 'true' value to be $30 because that's the going rate of a C-store T6. Mudd's Market is a scam of course. Mark stuff up 600% (or more) then have a 50%-80% sale... You are still paying more than I'd consider normal price. Now if you feel it's worth it, go ahead and buy it. It's your money.
does mudds market ship char unlock or acct? IIRC the temporal destroyer was a lockbox. char unlock. if I can pay 8k for an account unlock I just might. yes, i am one of those sexy space whales. and yes I play at least a couple times a week, so the theory that all the whales come and go every few years is nonsense.. and to quote another person, as if it give any sort of weight, I know several people who will buy Zen to level up a weapon, or buy a ship, or just not have to do the last three freaking days of a 21 day grind.. and we all play a few times a week.. there are no absolutes or stereotypes in this game, and nothing should be taken away or nerfed unless it's completely game breaking
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah that seems to be a cultural difference there since from what I've heard the Koreans and Japanese seem to love that kind of gameplay, but in the West it goes over about as well as a TRIBBLE in a packed elevator.
^this