I understood it. @phoenixc#0738 explained it well. They don't 'need' to condense anything. If you cannot be bothered to engage with what they wrote then don't.
"conceptual producers, attempting to bridge a gap between the original concept Klingons with the technical compromise (of the largely same look), we are all familiar with up to that point, anyway. It was well done, and good to see. -- By Discovery S2 we see the same Klingons with hair and they do very much resemble the familiarity many cling to. That was a thought provoking pick-up, by itself."
They didn't attempt to bridge any gap. They half assed it from beginning to end. They know it. The Trekkies know it and even the casual fans know it (at least the ones not fooling themselves). After the backlash over their absurd choice of using halloween Orc rubber masks for a already established iconic race. The self proclaimed 'experts' of all that is Trek panicked and tried to undo some of the cosmetic changes of the orc mask designs. They gave them some hair on top of the rubber masks and removed some of the layers so their actors lips could emote a little more.
S2 Discovery Orcs are still Orcs. The only difference is they got 'upgraded' to later looking like Uruk-Hai. That isn't a improvement. Discovery KlingOrcs are nothing but diarrhea with no forethought. They were spawned from the backsides of novice producers that were left with the keys to Trek fluff.
Nah, populism overreacting by being thrown outta their comfort zone, is nothing new. Don't even try to tell me it is, or that this is anything else.
Heres the Original, original Klingons, I began with:
Things changed drastically after this. I didn't think it was all that great initially. Acceptance grew on me. No one overreacted to the changes though. It was neither welcome, nor unwelcome, and I'd caution anyone in attempting to rewrite that history..
The fact of the matter is. Any Star Trek fan is well accustomed to the continual changes in Klingons, from the series to the films and back. Its nothing new. It isa by-product of technical feasibility, that both Jeffries and Mead had often commented upon over the decades; about both ships and creature shop.
To further illustrate the point: I'd say the vast majority of Star Wars fans were fairly sure, within the first 25mins of TFA. That the Sequel trilogy wasn't going to conclude the saga, but instead just kinda string things along (excepting exit strategy). -- Was it worth all the vitriolic overreaction? I don't think so, there, either.
The Klingons, to me, never quite sold that "Alien" vibe. Now they do. Its challenging and provocative, given their interaction and history with humans to reimagine them like this in past poi. To me it changes little, but adds context that wasn't there beforehand, except in dialogue.
So the only fencesitting I see here, is those hung up on this nonsense. You or others may not see it that way.
I'm glad to see this news but a bit worried as well. I've always loved the Klingon race ever since I first got into Star Trek as a kid. New ship skins, upgraded visuals and such are all fine and good. But give us better story arcs/ships/gear/et. as well that we can grind for or pick up. And for the love of Trek.....please hurry up and end this discovery TRIBBLE because as it was said in the very short To Hell With Honor they put up, " That is not a klingon "
I watched 1 episode of DISC and hated it. They screwed everything up on purpose by trying to put TRIBBLE that doesn't belong in there because their own stupidity got in their way. Those will never be Klingons, they will only be mutated california raisin's. DISC is an embarrassment to all that is Star Trek. This of course is my own opinion. I don't mind some of the designs and attempts at fleshing out history between Starfleet and the Empire, but they did it in the worst way possible and destroyed the long loved legacy of great characters.
So.. what you're saying is; if anyone just breezes in the forum and wants instant cred, they just pad their posts with extraneous use of the word "TRIBBLE", just like that, all in caps?
I am a true Klingon fanboi and unashamedly so. I have loved them since I watched Kor spar with Kirk in Errand of mercy. I fangasmed at the TNG episodes and adored how DS9 evolved their culture.
Now I don't have any real issues with DISC or how they portray Klingons. The visual stuff is a reboot and we've seen Klingons change from TOS to TMP and the TNG/DS9 eras. DISC stays true to Klingon culture, expands on their nationalism and the houses and I like how the series unites them and adds the Boreth angle which I found interesting.
At first I did take issue with the ship design but STO, funnily enough, sold me on that after picking up the Chargh and seeing the details close up.
Yes there are lore and canon issues, such as the cloak, but that has been an issue in other aspects of star trek between the series.
Lol! And again. You seem to willfully take things said "far too literally". (See? I can do this too!). The rhetorical questions asked of you, are an offer to make you check yourself, BEFORE you continue forcing a discussion down incoherant paths. Lol!
It seems you hadn't noted that Star Trek offers an enormous amount to work with, beyond the various series that serve as inspiration. Even the recent ones. -- Its what keeps series coming, as well as episodic content in games like this.
In fact, theres so much to draw upon that one is, understandibly, going to have trouble discerning "where to start"; even before, "how to do it".
Which brings conclusion to "the point": I'm quite sure, that for the games producers (gamesdev, leads & admin). Its all about working within a budget. This recent anmouncement only tells me that they have secured a big enough one to crack the game open again; not merely patch it or try bolt-ons. -- budgets none of us are privy to, and thus, cannot speak with any authority.
And again, you seem to willingly ignore what the developers themselves have said, and then twist it into something other then what they said, because you just can't imagine how it could be that they think that way.
Cryptic has said, point blank, that, before all of these new Trek shows started coming out, they only had one or two more big story ideas left for STO. It was never a matter of not having the money to do other ideas, nor was it ever framed that way, or implied to be because of that. It was simply a matter of running out of usable content.
That isn't even that hard to imagine either. Starting with TNG, Star Trek started introducing its own story arcs, and, in the process, started doing what STO is based around, which is to take plot elements from older episodes of Trek, and expand on them. Due to that, that the dangling plot threads of those episodes, which STO typically builds its narratives around, get resolved, leaving them with nothing to do with that episode.
The Dominion War took up around 80 episodes of DS9(over 10% of all Trek episodes), and it got resolved by the end of DS9 with the signing of the Treaty of Bajor, and the Dominion's defeat. While STO picks up from that final episode, and answers the questions of what happened to Odo, the Female Changeling, the Jem'Hadar left in the Alpha Quadrant, Cardassia, etc. etc. after that point, by doing so they are continuing the plot thread of all the connected episodes before it. There's no need for a story about things like the Siege of AR-558, or that time they blew up a Cardassian/Dominion shipyard with a solar flare, because all of that already got resolved, as it lead to the end of the war, which we already saw.
And the Dominion War wasn't the only major story in Trek that STO has covered either. There is also
The Temporal Cold War from Enterprise
The Klingon War from S1 of Discovery
The Culluh/Seska story from Voyager
The Mirror Universe story between TOS and DS9
The Kurn story between TNG and DS9
The P'Jem story in ENT
The Borg story between ENT, TNG, and VOY
And numerous two parters, be they literal two parters like Time's Arrow, or Year of Hell, or effective two parters like Coming of Age/Conspiracy
Something around 1/3, if not slightly more, of all Trek episodes are part of these multi episode storylines.... and STO has already covered everything listed, and more.
And when it comes to more one off episodes, most of those are either so small of stories they can be done in patrols(like the Acamarians from TNG, and the APUs from Voyager, having their stories continued in patrols in STO), or are so resolved within the episode in question(like the TOS episode "The Changeling" revolving around the Nomad Probe, a one of kind entity that destroys itself by the end of the episode), that there isn't really anything to do with them narratively. At most they can throw some of the tech in-game(hence the Nomad Probe kit module at K-13) And, again, Cryptic has already done a lot of that also.
That said it doesn't have to mean that should CBS listen to a certain subset of fans cancel all current Trek series in production and not produce new unless they're 100% copies of either TNG or TOS (depending which subset they're listening at that point) while at the same time declaring those series made after 2005 (when ENT ended) to be 100% non-canon and "not worthy of the Star Trek name", this still might not mean that Cryptic would be 100% out of ideas as the new series might have given them ideas to follow that don't directly relate to an episode.
That said it's rather unlikely that CBS would do that.,
Yeah, and to add further; it seems to me that not a lot of people don't actually understand the word "canonical" and how it pertains to narratives (its meaning) -- It simply means that 'within the framework of narrative, is established as fact'.. Now when talking about both Star Trek and Star Wars; very little is established as fact. Not only can addendum change the whole shape of the fact debated (and often does); but both constructed worlds include mechanisms available to authors to completely alter such definitives. Its there to introduce abberation and can create either anomaly or even paradox.
In Star Trek, its Temporal mechanics. In Star Wars, certain aspects in the makeup of the galaxy, far, far away.. do much the same thing (no, not the Force.. not yet anyway.. 🙄).
So if you're debating 'canon' then its better to limit the exchange to where the factoid came from, because one series to the next can utterly change things. -- Which pretty much leaves everyone on the level of speculation and not much else.
The look of a species is not canonical. Only some features might be.
For example: For a long time people believed and hotly debated the colour of the Command jersey, to be a yellow. Until William Shatner made it clear that, that was simply an abberation of photography (lighting) at the time; they are in fact a kind of Lime / Green and that was also written in the script. (Thus canonical reference) -- Yet in subsequent series, became yellow. -- the Captains tunics are a Hunter Green.
Is it really worth debating such factoids though? Lol The implications are much more fun to converse about imo.
Seen people ingame and other places talk about Legendary Klingon Ships for this content update.
If we follow the same logic they did with the legendary fed ships. That they are all "main" ships from each of the shows (movies and series, plus STO's faction flagship).
We would get a Legendary B'rel, Somraw, Vor'cha, Negh'Var, D7, Sarcophage, Kelvin D4x, DSC D7, and maybe the Kelvin D7(might be a stretch since it was only seen in the Kobayashi Maru)... as well as a Bortasqu'.
Since they are the only KDF ships that had major focus in each show, and it would kinda match up with the Federation lineup.
- - - - -
Anyway, my hopes for the content update besides missions... is costumes. Better get a bunch of KDF faction themed hair for ALL races. And KDF faction themed clothes. So much shown in each series and movie that still haven't been added.
The small lineup of klingons in the news blog shows hair and clothes looking much more clear than they do ingame. So hope that is something us players get access to.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
I really hope we get to see some new clothes for everyone in the KDF faction, and hair styles for everyone.
The KDF stuff really needs an update and more stuff added.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Cryptic doesn't need new shows or stuff from the shows to develop new content (unless there is some idiotic licensing issue). Making stuff up is perfectly fine if it fits the universe. Who had an issue with the Lukari, or did I miss them in previous Star Trek somewhere?
Cryptic has said, point blank, that, before all of these new Trek shows started coming out, they only had one or two more big story ideas left for STO.
Dude, at what point do you begin to concede that there is simply not enough context to fully comprehend this quote you keep lobbing at people to try and shut them down? (Hopefully no one actually acquiesces..)
Even a cursory look at all things "Trekdom", should inform you that its a very fertile property, with many productions networked into a persistent creative forum, all content creators (with permissions) are hooked into. -- Therefore, often, its simply production budget that determines what can be produced.
They're not gonna bore **their audience** with such details.
Cryptic doesn't need new shows or stuff from the shows to develop new content (unless there is some idiotic licensing issue). Making stuff up is perfectly fine if it fits the universe. Who had an issue with the Lukari, or did I miss them in previous Star Trek somewhere?
Not me! I adore Kuumaarke! and often replay Future Proof & New Frontiers. The way collaborators have woven in Star Trek lore into and around content is amazing. -- Nothing says "Look at what we got to play with" more than doing it, and sharing the result. I genuinely appreciate it. (and the BSG camera in the Vault: Ensnared too!).
I like to think my Dahar Master and Kuumaarke, are really good friends, actually.
Nah, populism overreacting by being thrown outta their comfort zone, is nothing new. Don't even try to tell me it is, or that this is anything else.
This is place to have discussions about topics like these. I and everyone else are free to tell you otherwise and it's your prerogative to either acknowledge or wilfully ignore it.
Heres the Original, original Klingons, I began with:
Things changed drastically after this. I didn't think it was all that great initially. Acceptance grew on me. No one overreacted to the changes though. It was neither welcome, nor unwelcome, and I'd caution anyone in attempting to rewrite that history..
That was the 60s and they were not hiding the fact that they lacked the funds to make the Klingons how they envisioned them. This poor analogy of yours to pretend this was giant issue compared to Discovery Klingon changes is fabrication on your part. Those writers even attempted to explain the gap between TOS only for their effort to be undone by Discovery.
The fact of the matter is. Any Star Trek fan is well accustomed to the continual changes in Klingons, from the series to the films and back. Its nothing new. It isa by-product of technical feasibility, that both Jeffries and Mead had often commented upon over the decades; about both ships and creature shop.
Just because you write fact at the start of your sentence doesn't give it anymore credibility. Small continual changes yes. Unrecognisable redesigns from the ground up? No... Designing Star fleet ships has a set of rules you must follow. Diverging from that design code is a big no no. The same is true for already established aliens like the Klingons. The fans won't recognise it and the moment they can't they will reject it. Klingon ships are smears of TRIBBLE (imo). Most if not all are not even recognisable as Klingon designs. You could name them generic alien of the week and people wouldn't know the difference.
To further illustrate the point: I'd say the vast majority of Star Wars fans were fairly sure, within the first 25mins of TFA. That the Sequel trilogy wasn't going to conclude the saga, but instead just kinda string things along (excepting exit strategy). -- Was it worth all the vitriolic overreaction? I don't think so, there, either.
You have managed to illustrate that you're very good at apologising for bad creative design choices. The sequel trilogy will forever be a monument of what no to do with 40+ year old franchise. The fans did what they had to do and yes it was worth it. The real malice was from tone death producers in charge who thought they could do whatever they wanted and throw insults over the fence at fans without repercussions.
The Klingons, to me, never quite sold that "Alien" vibe. Now they do. Its challenging and provocative, given their interaction and history with humans to reimagine them like this in past poi. To me it changes little, but adds context that wasn't there beforehand, except in dialogue.
So the only fencesitting I see here, is those hung up on this nonsense. You or others may not see it that way.
Yeah. Like I never I heard that before... "challenging", "brave", "provocative" and "bold". How well did that work for all those franchises? Sequel trilogy? Ghost busters 2016? Dark Fate? I could go on...
You keep going in circles and saying it changes little but "adds context" What context? It adds absolutely nothing to the Klingon lore. The story of the war went nowhere. It was just dropped like nothing happened. As if someone hit the magical reset button and everything is wonderful again. I would have rather have watched Axanar than what we ended up getting.
Continuity and fluff isn't nonsense. You should learn from bad examples like Freddie Prinze Jr who go into nonsensical rage induced outbursts at fans for not liking whatever garbage they deem to be good doesn't mean it has to be universally liked by all.​​
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Yeah, and to add further; it seems to me that not a lot of people don't actually understand the word "canonical" and how it pertains to narratives (its meaning) -- It simply means that 'within the framework of narrative, is established as fact'.. Now when talking about both Star Trek and Star Wars; very little is established as fact.
I think most people understand it quite well. There is one however that seems to have no understanding of the words that they use to explain things.​​
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
That said it doesn't have to mean that should CBS listen to a certain subset of fans cancel all current Trek series in production and not produce new unless they're 100% copies of either TNG or TOS (depending which subset they're listening at that point) while at the same time declaring those series made after 2005 (when ENT ended) to be 100% non-canon and "not worthy of the Star Trek name", this still might not mean that Cryptic would be 100% out of ideas as the new series might have given them ideas to follow that don't directly relate to an episode.
That said it's rather unlikely that CBS would do that.,
Well yes, that was never in debate. As I said early on in my post
Cryptic has said, point blank, that, before all of these new Trek shows started coming out, they only had one or two more big story ideas left for STO.
Discovery and Picard have given Cryptic a lot more content to work with, allowing for a continuation of STO's story beyond what was the original "out of ideas" point.
In the last over year and a half now we have seen Cryptic churn out a lengthy storyline covering the various loose ends of Discovery S1, and well as start moving into a lot of S2 stuff.
I personally like both Discovery and Picard, and find that 99% of the supposed "it doesn't follow the canon!" stuff to be untrue. And I am glad it has given them an excuse to revamp a lot of the early Klingon content, something they have been saying they have wanted to do for awhile now.
Personally I liked the parts of DSC I saw (I was watching it with my older brother as I don't have Netflix myself, but that was before recent events put an end to that) as for Picard I've not seen it so I'm reserving judgement.
My point was that Cryptic's ideas might not be dependent on those new series being something they can use, but rather there also might be things where Cryptic writers went "never thought about it that way" and got new ideas to build upon. Writer's block is one of those things you can feel you're utterly out of idea until something or someone gives you a new point of view and suddenly you got plenty of ideas.
Let's return to the Year of the Klingon or better yet all of this should have been posted in the main thread created for that subject. If not, then this thread should be closed since there is a lot of gatekeeping going on. Having an opinion is one thing but slamming people who disagree with you is not right at all.
Let's return to the Year of the Klingon or better yet all of this should have been posted in the main thread created for that subject. If not, then this thread should be closed since there is a lot of gatekeeping going on. Having an opinion is one thing but slamming people who disagree with you is not right at all.
I hate gatekeeping, star trek is, and should be, all things to all people.
The main problem with the Klingons is that some of the fans and even some of the production people have a weird idea that the Klingons have to be some monolithic single race, single culture thing when in fact they never were that, they were diverse even from the beginning. That was compounded sometime around the early movie days when the studio got the weird idea that all the "bad" empires had to be composed of one single race, that only the "good" ones would be tolerant enough to have multiple races and/or cultures within them.
It definitely didn't start out that way, in TOS we saw three very human looking but distinctly different Klingon types, the dark skinned ones with the heavy, straight, Vulcan-like eyebrows like Kang and his crew, the lighter skinned ones with the curving bifurcated eyebrows like Kor and his troops, and the almost completely Terran-human looking ones like Koloth and his crew, and no one had a problem with that.
They even had quite different cultures, Kang's group was the "Mongol horde in space" types with a strong sense of honor, a loose almost tribal command structure and mixed-sex crews while Kor was from an Orwellian surveillance culture and an apparently male-only military. Koloth's group seems to fall somewhere between the two others.
On the surface it may sound to some that the Klingons kept arbitrarily changing, but there is a better explanation for that which was explored rather well in TNG, the fact that the Klingon empire is essentially a very loose feudal style government structure. They only failed to take the final step and say that all worthy citizens of the Klingon empire are Klingons, not just the race that originated on Chronos. If they had done that it would have put the whole divisive angst-magnet of a question to rest and all the various types, including the DSC ones, would fit in a way that enriched the overall story setting instead of detracting from it.
In fact, TNG showed that the various "houses" supplied ships and crews whole, not in a federal-level blended pool like the Federation uses, which neatly explains why ships tend to be all of the same makeup and cultural type.
There are still some rough spots of course, mainly in DS9 because of the old "we don't talk about it" joke and the fact that three TOS Klingons were shown in TNG makeup instead of the original, and that lead to the very kludgy augment virus thing in an attempt to recover from those mistakes, but if handled right they could have smoothed even those wrinkles out. Unfortunately Moonves's prejudices and the team of like-minded people utterly contemptuous towards TOS he put together to produce DSC were not up to the task of lore integration at all and totally botched it.
All is not lost however, at least if Westmore is right anyway, since the makeup department is now operating under the assumption that the Klingon "great houses" are not all from Chronos. Now if only they would take that last step and control the urge to trowel on tons of latex on every single Klingon and show some of the other low-and-no-rubber Klingon types including the TOS ones all would finally come together.
Ohh boy more Klingon content after
-Klingons were the driving force during the Iconian War, with the Klingon's spiritual leader going out as the big damn hero.
-Klingons characters, Kurn and Martok, were the big guest spots during the Tzenkethi crisis.
-The Klingons ancient enemy, the Hur'q, was the big bad of Victory is Life.
-Klingons where the ones who saved the day during Victory is Life, after a mission based entirely around re-retrieving the Klingon's most sacred weapon.
-This entire last story arc has been about J'Ula, a Klingon, being "super cool"
People act like the last 5 years of STO hasn't been "Star Trek Klingons: Online"
This list is disingenuous as it ignores the fact that the context of most of that content was either through a Federation or Alliance lens. Much of it features Klingons, at times heavily, but very little is in service to Klingon players, flavored for Klingon players, or written for any Klingons or Klingon-aligned species beyond the specific characters featured.
Point 1 is the only truly valid bit on this list since it's the only bit that existed before the Fed- or Alliance-focus became the norm.
Kurn and Martok were both great, but they were the only Klingon things in any of their missions.
The Hur'q being an ancient enemy of the Klingons didn't matter in the slightest to the story of ViL outside of a cheap means to get the Klingons to play the part of "the cavalry" at the last minute. The mission to actually retrieve the Sword of Kahless wasn't even a Klingon-flavored mission - it was a heist movie. It's about as Klingon as french fries are French.
J'Ula's entire arc is little more than moustache-twirling villainy (though To Hell with Honor is a pretty Klingon TFO in spirit).
And of course all of this has nothing to do with the utter dearth of QA love for Klingons since the First City revamp, barring only some character model changes for Klingons specifically, leaving the other allied species high and dry.
Well I sure hope some of face lift they are planning on doing for the Klingons goes to the players as well. I pray we finally get updated bone ridges and real Klingon hair styles besides the 2010 spaghetti dreadlocks.
​​
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
If there is one thing I'd want to see is for more low tier parts to be made available for T6 ships so we can kitbash our Klingons. There is a whole range of interesting BoP parts in the "bug" line and you can't use them in the T6 BoP. Same for the raptors and battlecruisers.
Feds can buy low tier boats for dil and use the parts to kitbash T6 ships.
Seen a lot of people talk ingame about Legendary Klingon ships for the content update.
Looking at the logic behind the Legendary anniversary Fed ships. 10 main ships that had some main focus from all the series and movies. Aswell as the ingame flagship of the faction.
It seems likely we would get the B'Rel, Somraw, Vor'Cha, Negh'Var, D7, Dsc D7, Kelvin D7, Sarcophage, Kelvin D4x, and the Bortasqu' as legendary ships.
While I don't think it will ever happen, I can still hope it does. Atleast 3 of those ships I really want.
- - -
Meanwhile
Hope the content update brings in some of the missing old uniforms, coats and skirts from the diffrent shows.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Comments
Nah, populism overreacting by being thrown outta their comfort zone, is nothing new. Don't even try to tell me it is, or that this is anything else.
Heres the Original, original Klingons, I began with:
Things changed drastically after this. I didn't think it was all that great initially. Acceptance grew on me. No one overreacted to the changes though. It was neither welcome, nor unwelcome, and I'd caution anyone in attempting to rewrite that history..
The fact of the matter is. Any Star Trek fan is well accustomed to the continual changes in Klingons, from the series to the films and back. Its nothing new. It isa by-product of technical feasibility, that both Jeffries and Mead had often commented upon over the decades; about both ships and creature shop.
To further illustrate the point: I'd say the vast majority of Star Wars fans were fairly sure, within the first 25mins of TFA. That the Sequel trilogy wasn't going to conclude the saga, but instead just kinda string things along (excepting exit strategy). -- Was it worth all the vitriolic overreaction? I don't think so, there, either.
The Klingons, to me, never quite sold that "Alien" vibe. Now they do. Its challenging and provocative, given their interaction and history with humans to reimagine them like this in past poi. To me it changes little, but adds context that wasn't there beforehand, except in dialogue.
So the only fencesitting I see here, is those hung up on this nonsense. You or others may not see it that way.
I watched 1 episode of DISC and hated it. They screwed everything up on purpose by trying to put TRIBBLE that doesn't belong in there because their own stupidity got in their way. Those will never be Klingons, they will only be mutated california raisin's. DISC is an embarrassment to all that is Star Trek. This of course is my own opinion. I don't mind some of the designs and attempts at fleshing out history between Starfleet and the Empire, but they did it in the worst way possible and destroyed the long loved legacy of great characters.
.. gotcha
Now I don't have any real issues with DISC or how they portray Klingons. The visual stuff is a reboot and we've seen Klingons change from TOS to TMP and the TNG/DS9 eras. DISC stays true to Klingon culture, expands on their nationalism and the houses and I like how the series unites them and adds the Boreth angle which I found interesting.
At first I did take issue with the ship design but STO, funnily enough, sold me on that after picking up the Chargh and seeing the details close up.
Yes there are lore and canon issues, such as the cloak, but that has been an issue in other aspects of star trek between the series.
There is to much FED focus in this game for years.
That said it doesn't have to mean that should CBS listen to a certain subset of fans cancel all current Trek series in production and not produce new unless they're 100% copies of either TNG or TOS (depending which subset they're listening at that point) while at the same time declaring those series made after 2005 (when ENT ended) to be 100% non-canon and "not worthy of the Star Trek name", this still might not mean that Cryptic would be 100% out of ideas as the new series might have given them ideas to follow that don't directly relate to an episode.
That said it's rather unlikely that CBS would do that.,
In Star Trek, its Temporal mechanics. In Star Wars, certain aspects in the makeup of the galaxy, far, far away.. do much the same thing (no, not the Force.. not yet anyway.. 🙄).
So if you're debating 'canon' then its better to limit the exchange to where the factoid came from, because one series to the next can utterly change things. -- Which pretty much leaves everyone on the level of speculation and not much else.
The look of a species is not canonical. Only some features might be.
For example: For a long time people believed and hotly debated the colour of the Command jersey, to be a yellow. Until William Shatner made it clear that, that was simply an abberation of photography (lighting) at the time; they are in fact a kind of Lime / Green and that was also written in the script. (Thus canonical reference) -- Yet in subsequent series, became yellow. -- the Captains tunics are a Hunter Green.
Is it really worth debating such factoids though? Lol The implications are much more fun to converse about imo.
If we follow the same logic they did with the legendary fed ships. That they are all "main" ships from each of the shows (movies and series, plus STO's faction flagship).
We would get a Legendary B'rel, Somraw, Vor'cha, Negh'Var, D7, Sarcophage, Kelvin D4x, DSC D7, and maybe the Kelvin D7(might be a stretch since it was only seen in the Kobayashi Maru)... as well as a Bortasqu'.
Since they are the only KDF ships that had major focus in each show, and it would kinda match up with the Federation lineup.
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Anyway, my hopes for the content update besides missions... is costumes. Better get a bunch of KDF faction themed hair for ALL races. And KDF faction themed clothes. So much shown in each series and movie that still haven't been added.
The small lineup of klingons in the news blog shows hair and clothes looking much more clear than they do ingame. So hope that is something us players get access to.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
The KDF stuff really needs an update and more stuff added.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Even a cursory look at all things "Trekdom", should inform you that its a very fertile property, with many productions networked into a persistent creative forum, all content creators (with permissions) are hooked into. -- Therefore, often, its simply production budget that determines what can be produced.
They're not gonna bore **their audience** with such details.
Not me! I adore Kuumaarke! and often replay Future Proof & New Frontiers. The way collaborators have woven in Star Trek lore into and around content is amazing. -- Nothing says "Look at what we got to play with" more than doing it, and sharing the result. I genuinely appreciate it. (and the BSG camera in the Vault: Ensnared too!).
I like to think my Dahar Master and Kuumaarke, are really good friends, actually.
This is place to have discussions about topics like these. I and everyone else are free to tell you otherwise and it's your prerogative to either acknowledge or wilfully ignore it.
That was the 60s and they were not hiding the fact that they lacked the funds to make the Klingons how they envisioned them. This poor analogy of yours to pretend this was giant issue compared to Discovery Klingon changes is fabrication on your part. Those writers even attempted to explain the gap between TOS only for their effort to be undone by Discovery.
Just because you write fact at the start of your sentence doesn't give it anymore credibility. Small continual changes yes. Unrecognisable redesigns from the ground up? No... Designing Star fleet ships has a set of rules you must follow. Diverging from that design code is a big no no. The same is true for already established aliens like the Klingons. The fans won't recognise it and the moment they can't they will reject it. Klingon ships are smears of TRIBBLE (imo). Most if not all are not even recognisable as Klingon designs. You could name them generic alien of the week and people wouldn't know the difference.
You have managed to illustrate that you're very good at apologising for bad creative design choices. The sequel trilogy will forever be a monument of what no to do with 40+ year old franchise. The fans did what they had to do and yes it was worth it. The real malice was from tone death producers in charge who thought they could do whatever they wanted and throw insults over the fence at fans without repercussions.
Yeah. Like I never I heard that before... "challenging", "brave", "provocative" and "bold". How well did that work for all those franchises? Sequel trilogy? Ghost busters 2016? Dark Fate? I could go on...
You keep going in circles and saying it changes little but "adds context" What context? It adds absolutely nothing to the Klingon lore. The story of the war went nowhere. It was just dropped like nothing happened. As if someone hit the magical reset button and everything is wonderful again. I would have rather have watched Axanar than what we ended up getting.
Continuity and fluff isn't nonsense. You should learn from bad examples like Freddie Prinze Jr who go into nonsensical rage induced outbursts at fans for not liking whatever garbage they deem to be good doesn't mean it has to be universally liked by all.​​
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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I think most people understand it quite well. There is one however that seems to have no understanding of the words that they use to explain things.​​
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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Personally I liked the parts of DSC I saw (I was watching it with my older brother as I don't have Netflix myself, but that was before recent events put an end to that) as for Picard I've not seen it so I'm reserving judgement.
My point was that Cryptic's ideas might not be dependent on those new series being something they can use, but rather there also might be things where Cryptic writers went "never thought about it that way" and got new ideas to build upon. Writer's block is one of those things you can feel you're utterly out of idea until something or someone gives you a new point of view and suddenly you got plenty of ideas.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I hate gatekeeping, star trek is, and should be, all things to all people.
It definitely didn't start out that way, in TOS we saw three very human looking but distinctly different Klingon types, the dark skinned ones with the heavy, straight, Vulcan-like eyebrows like Kang and his crew, the lighter skinned ones with the curving bifurcated eyebrows like Kor and his troops, and the almost completely Terran-human looking ones like Koloth and his crew, and no one had a problem with that.
They even had quite different cultures, Kang's group was the "Mongol horde in space" types with a strong sense of honor, a loose almost tribal command structure and mixed-sex crews while Kor was from an Orwellian surveillance culture and an apparently male-only military. Koloth's group seems to fall somewhere between the two others.
On the surface it may sound to some that the Klingons kept arbitrarily changing, but there is a better explanation for that which was explored rather well in TNG, the fact that the Klingon empire is essentially a very loose feudal style government structure. They only failed to take the final step and say that all worthy citizens of the Klingon empire are Klingons, not just the race that originated on Chronos. If they had done that it would have put the whole divisive angst-magnet of a question to rest and all the various types, including the DSC ones, would fit in a way that enriched the overall story setting instead of detracting from it.
In fact, TNG showed that the various "houses" supplied ships and crews whole, not in a federal-level blended pool like the Federation uses, which neatly explains why ships tend to be all of the same makeup and cultural type.
There are still some rough spots of course, mainly in DS9 because of the old "we don't talk about it" joke and the fact that three TOS Klingons were shown in TNG makeup instead of the original, and that lead to the very kludgy augment virus thing in an attempt to recover from those mistakes, but if handled right they could have smoothed even those wrinkles out. Unfortunately Moonves's prejudices and the team of like-minded people utterly contemptuous towards TOS he put together to produce DSC were not up to the task of lore integration at all and totally botched it.
All is not lost however, at least if Westmore is right anyway, since the makeup department is now operating under the assumption that the Klingon "great houses" are not all from Chronos. Now if only they would take that last step and control the urge to trowel on tons of latex on every single Klingon and show some of the other low-and-no-rubber Klingon types including the TOS ones all would finally come together.
This list is disingenuous as it ignores the fact that the context of most of that content was either through a Federation or Alliance lens. Much of it features Klingons, at times heavily, but very little is in service to Klingon players, flavored for Klingon players, or written for any Klingons or Klingon-aligned species beyond the specific characters featured.
Point 1 is the only truly valid bit on this list since it's the only bit that existed before the Fed- or Alliance-focus became the norm.
Kurn and Martok were both great, but they were the only Klingon things in any of their missions.
The Hur'q being an ancient enemy of the Klingons didn't matter in the slightest to the story of ViL outside of a cheap means to get the Klingons to play the part of "the cavalry" at the last minute. The mission to actually retrieve the Sword of Kahless wasn't even a Klingon-flavored mission - it was a heist movie. It's about as Klingon as french fries are French.
J'Ula's entire arc is little more than moustache-twirling villainy (though To Hell with Honor is a pretty Klingon TFO in spirit).
And of course all of this has nothing to do with the utter dearth of QA love for Klingons since the First City revamp, barring only some character model changes for Klingons specifically, leaving the other allied species high and dry.
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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Feds can buy low tier boats for dil and use the parts to kitbash T6 ships.
Looking at the logic behind the Legendary anniversary Fed ships. 10 main ships that had some main focus from all the series and movies. Aswell as the ingame flagship of the faction.
It seems likely we would get the B'Rel, Somraw, Vor'Cha, Negh'Var, D7, Dsc D7, Kelvin D7, Sarcophage, Kelvin D4x, and the Bortasqu' as legendary ships.
While I don't think it will ever happen, I can still hope it does. Atleast 3 of those ships I really want.
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Meanwhile
Hope the content update brings in some of the missing old uniforms, coats and skirts from the diffrent shows.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008