that is not necessarily true. you give me the exact same build as someone in the platinum DPS league and I really doubt I could come close, probably something closer to 50% of that person's DPS. What you said is essentially, hand a bum a Stradivarius violin, and he will be good enough to play for the Pops.. that simply is not true.
Which is why I like my more balanced builds, as they don't cater to one particular playstyle and can be built upon. Knowledge and experience are a major factor in builds. The problem comes in if the playstyle for said build doesn't fit your own.
It kinda irks me when someone advocates for a DPS build as if it is all you need to improve. It may HELP, but it is not the end all solution.
Kinda goes the same with the DPS Meta, but that is neither here nor there, or relevant to this thread.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
that is not necessarily true. you give me the exact same build as someone in the platinum DPS league and I really doubt I could come close, probably something closer to 50% of that person's DPS. What you said is essentially, hand a bum a Stradivarius violin, and he will be good enough to play for the Pops.. that simply is not true.
Which is why I like my more balanced builds, as they don't cater to one particular playstyle and can be built upon. Knowledge and experience are a major factor in builds. The problem comes in if the playstyle for said build doesn't fit your own.
It kinda irks me when someone advocates for a DPS build as if it is all you need to improve. It may HELP, but it is not the end all solution.
Kinda goes the same with the DPS Meta, but that is neither here nor there, or relevant to this thread.
point.
i aim for fun. if i can get some pointers along the way - great. (as with the help you are providing on the other threads)
end all be all - no, but certainly entertaining to see when it happens.
often makes me wonder though, when i get into TFOs i know darn well im nowhere near the skill of others, so i think they make up for my lack of skill and DPS, also makes me wonder if they dislike me and my build because of it.
naa to really most meta chasers that que random... are happy to have low DPS team mates. Lets them ring the bells on their DPS meter if no one is stealing the HP targets from them. lol
You do run into the odd person in the Ques that complains but first they are jerks and they can suck it up. Secondly the game has been power creeped to a point where any half way decent Min Maxer can solo any advanced content. So if you run into anyone actually complaining out loud... tell them you hear real min maxers can solo it so they must be lacking.
Have fun... or why both playing. Your not mandated to have the same definition of fun as anyone else.
While I will not question that this occurrence is outside the realm of possibility, if someone can wipe the entire last wave of Advanced Counterpoint in under a second after the cutscene (like practically cutscene to win screen), does that not speak to bad system design planning?
So...if you have to run counterpoint for an endeavor, you certainly don't wanna do it in a PUG on elite. For one, it is not a part of the random system so the chances of it getting filled is pretty much nil. An even if it does get filled for some reason, on elite, unless you have one of the top 1% of the players, having a leecher may or two WILL cause the run to fail. So you complain that people who do too much damage is encroaching on your advanced TFO...well there is the opposite problem as well where people who have no business being there go to try and get other people who are better to carry them to better rewards. So...what we make it so if you do too much damage you MUST stay in elite and if you can't you stick to normal? And how do you even go about enforcing that? The gear? Because the gear isn't the only source of where damage comes from. Timing matters. Position matter. Hell what your TEAMMATES does matter. So how to you say person X is good so they can only play elite while Person Y is terrible so they play normal. Because I have seen players take a ship that somebody in the DPS league has done 200k DPS in ISA with and managed to not even get 10k DPS in ISA with it. That is 2000% difference based on the PLAYER and teammates.
Now, let us look at this from a system as in gear is the problem PoV. Okay so you claim that gears should not combine to have such high effects. That maybe a fair stance...but what happens when you start to nerf things. What happened when FAW was nerfed? The good players just found something else that worked. The ones who were not good...the ones who joined advanced TFO with their 5k or 3k ships suddenly found that they got their damage cut in half...or more. Many found that they were suddenly getting AFK penalties. The really bad players who muddled through normal content suddenly found that they can't do that anymore.
The best of the best players in this game does 500+k DPS. A good player does 200k DPS. An okay gamer does 100k DPS. Crappy gamers like me does 40-70k DPS. The AVERAGE player in this game does 10-20k DPS. A poor player does 5k DPS. And the bottom of the barrel player in this game does less than 1k DPS (and yes some of these players queue up for advanced maps and get mad when they get the AFK penalty). And we have proof that at least 2000% of the difference between the best of the best and the bottom of the barrel isn't gear. It is probably a LOT more than that however. So...tell me...how do you systemically change the game to account for that much disparity in player skill? Other than to say no matter what you do, you all get the same results? So everyone gets an I win button after 15 min and NOTHING you do during those 15 min matters.
If I have to run counterpoint as an endeavour, I don't. It seems to pop a lot as a random, though.
I exclusively play Advanced TFOs. No interest in anything even called Elite. I have sufficient damage to kill enemies, I can even solo a side of infected conduit without popping.
By estimate I'm in the 40-60k range on my mains and 20-30 on some alts (one or two alts have been downgraded to patrols because they are too squishy). Not important. That's all on gear and clicky powers. I can't be arsed to learn "advanced systems", especially when the game itself does little to assist, and I kind of like flying in circles. Not like it's necessary with decent maxed-out gear.
Your other comments descend into numbers that I actually have no interest in, no ability to see in-game, and are utterly devoid of meaning to me. I can't play a game like that. Zero fun. It's a major reason that I dislike the MMO genre. This game really begs for a completely solo option.
If you have allowed your damage systems to overpower any capacity of an enemy to resist and only lack of direct information and knowledge (yes I know that there is an abundance of third-party information), combined with self-restraint prevents abuse, well your game is kind of broken. It will be painful and brutal to fix that so late in the game, you're right, so does that mean we should maybe have a couple more challenge levels? Advanced 1,2,3,? Obviously there's demand if people insist on pushing their damage 10x higher than it needs to be. I'd even be okay if they were gated for some illusionary prestige. What else is there? Hard hardcaps on bonuses (change to next best option and repeat)? endless power-creep as it is now (problem just gets worse)? change multiplicative bonuses to additive bonuses (that'd bring huge tears, I'm sure)? More console limitations (not very friendly)? You are absolutely right that it's a balancing nightmare.
I know when I get one of those ultra-high-DPS yahoos come in, I often just give up. There is no point in effort. How's that good? I'd honestly rather carry the guy firing a pea-shooter and blowing up every 3 seconds. Fortunately, it doesn't happen very often.
I am a crappy GAMER...which is actually above the average player in this game. Like no seriously, the latest spiderman game on easy mode...yeah I couldn't get past the tutorial.
I don't attribute the title of Gamer to any DPS number honestly. Even a casual can achieve your Gamer "level" with enough time and resources.
do they still give out trophies for high scores in pve or pvp content anymore?
I believe the places that used to still do, but that was and is still primarily fleet actions which are mostly defunct I think, so not really. The only one you see regularly might be the Imperial minefield since it can show up in randoms and I think crystalline entity has fleet action rewards too but I don't remember if it has a trophy.
I've said it before, and many here have already heard it, so I won't belabour the point.
In essence, I think it IS bad design when the content of the game can be so trivialized. It should not be possible (in any game, and many fall into this trap) to build your character (ship/whatever) in such a way that the content is rendered trivial.
I know, there will be those who disagree, but the dps creep has gone so far over the top that it's become absurd. There needed to be some control put on it, years ago, but they dropped that ball. Par for the course, with Cryptic.
Beyond any of that, it's not in keeping with the source material. These are SHIPS, not fighters, and they should be able to take punishment like ships. You watch the shows, the enemies don't blow up when the hero ship sneezes at them (usually, there are exceptions). A battle that's over in a blink has no drama or tension, and that's what's needed, both in storytelling, and in gaming.
Again, all my opinion, but one fueled by experience.
As you continue to play the game, improving your build gear and gaining experience with the game itself as you go, fights that were once super hard will become easier and easier. This is true with any game out there. Veteran players with greater level of experience and gear will always outdo those with less experience and less gear. For that matter veteran players will typically always outdo those with lesser experience because they've learned various combinations of powers and things their counterparts simply have not learned yet. A person who has been playing for 5 years and gotten everything to mk xv gold should always be able to do more than someone who has been playing for a week and only using mk xii very rare gear. Why should that veteran player that has spent the time to upgrade their gear not be allowed to outperform the other players who don't yet have that level of gear? If an artificial limit were possible and placed to limit the amount of DPS, what would be the point of upgrading gear? Folks would still hit the DPS cap and you're not making the problem go away, you're just removing incentive for folks to get better and upgrade.
The problem is there is no way to balance for the massive differences in potential in this game. 2000% is a huge difference to account for. As for the other stuff, alot of that is for gameplay reasons. Personally I like to push my tanks as far as they can go both in survival and damage. That's not for everyone, but it's what I like to do. If folks want to squeeze every last one or zero out of their ships that's their choice. unless they're using exploits or bugs to get their numbers, which is a different argument entirely, their fun is not wrong, nor is yours for that matter. Personally I don't find it fun to spend 10+ minutes in a run that should be over in 4 minutes.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Comments
Which is why I like my more balanced builds, as they don't cater to one particular playstyle and can be built upon. Knowledge and experience are a major factor in builds. The problem comes in if the playstyle for said build doesn't fit your own.
It kinda irks me when someone advocates for a DPS build as if it is all you need to improve. It may HELP, but it is not the end all solution.
Kinda goes the same with the DPS Meta, but that is neither here nor there, or relevant to this thread.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
naa to really most meta chasers that que random... are happy to have low DPS team mates. Lets them ring the bells on their DPS meter if no one is stealing the HP targets from them. lol
You do run into the odd person in the Ques that complains but first they are jerks and they can suck it up. Secondly the game has been power creeped to a point where any half way decent Min Maxer can solo any advanced content. So if you run into anyone actually complaining out loud... tell them you hear real min maxers can solo it so they must be lacking.
Have fun... or why both playing. Your not mandated to have the same definition of fun as anyone else.
If I have to run counterpoint as an endeavour, I don't. It seems to pop a lot as a random, though.
I exclusively play Advanced TFOs. No interest in anything even called Elite. I have sufficient damage to kill enemies, I can even solo a side of infected conduit without popping.
By estimate I'm in the 40-60k range on my mains and 20-30 on some alts (one or two alts have been downgraded to patrols because they are too squishy). Not important. That's all on gear and clicky powers. I can't be arsed to learn "advanced systems", especially when the game itself does little to assist, and I kind of like flying in circles. Not like it's necessary with decent maxed-out gear.
Your other comments descend into numbers that I actually have no interest in, no ability to see in-game, and are utterly devoid of meaning to me. I can't play a game like that. Zero fun. It's a major reason that I dislike the MMO genre. This game really begs for a completely solo option.
If you have allowed your damage systems to overpower any capacity of an enemy to resist and only lack of direct information and knowledge (yes I know that there is an abundance of third-party information), combined with self-restraint prevents abuse, well your game is kind of broken. It will be painful and brutal to fix that so late in the game, you're right, so does that mean we should maybe have a couple more challenge levels? Advanced 1,2,3,? Obviously there's demand if people insist on pushing their damage 10x higher than it needs to be. I'd even be okay if they were gated for some illusionary prestige. What else is there? Hard hardcaps on bonuses (change to next best option and repeat)? endless power-creep as it is now (problem just gets worse)? change multiplicative bonuses to additive bonuses (that'd bring huge tears, I'm sure)? More console limitations (not very friendly)? You are absolutely right that it's a balancing nightmare.
I know when I get one of those ultra-high-DPS yahoos come in, I often just give up. There is no point in effort. How's that good? I'd honestly rather carry the guy firing a pea-shooter and blowing up every 3 seconds. Fortunately, it doesn't happen very often.
I don't attribute the title of Gamer to any DPS number honestly. Even a casual can achieve your Gamer "level" with enough time and resources.
I believe the places that used to still do, but that was and is still primarily fleet actions which are mostly defunct I think, so not really. The only one you see regularly might be the Imperial minefield since it can show up in randoms and I think crystalline entity has fleet action rewards too but I don't remember if it has a trophy.
As you continue to play the game, improving your build gear and gaining experience with the game itself as you go, fights that were once super hard will become easier and easier. This is true with any game out there. Veteran players with greater level of experience and gear will always outdo those with less experience and less gear. For that matter veteran players will typically always outdo those with lesser experience because they've learned various combinations of powers and things their counterparts simply have not learned yet. A person who has been playing for 5 years and gotten everything to mk xv gold should always be able to do more than someone who has been playing for a week and only using mk xii very rare gear. Why should that veteran player that has spent the time to upgrade their gear not be allowed to outperform the other players who don't yet have that level of gear? If an artificial limit were possible and placed to limit the amount of DPS, what would be the point of upgrading gear? Folks would still hit the DPS cap and you're not making the problem go away, you're just removing incentive for folks to get better and upgrade.
The problem is there is no way to balance for the massive differences in potential in this game. 2000% is a huge difference to account for. As for the other stuff, alot of that is for gameplay reasons. Personally I like to push my tanks as far as they can go both in survival and damage. That's not for everyone, but it's what I like to do. If folks want to squeeze every last one or zero out of their ships that's their choice. unless they're using exploits or bugs to get their numbers, which is a different argument entirely, their fun is not wrong, nor is yours for that matter. Personally I don't find it fun to spend 10+ minutes in a run that should be over in 4 minutes.
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