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jozen
Member Posts: 102 Arc User
Last couple of days, I've seen this happen several times. Entire flotillas of enemies dead in a second. Yesterday it was the entire last wave of Counterpoint. Gone so fast that I didn't even see what killed them. What gives?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Its not really one specific console or ability, just a good combination of all of them. Its just when that kind of build goes into Normal or even Advanced content, it just evaporates everything.
I concur with that assessment.
Welcome to STO, where UberGodMode DPS is the name of the game.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You really shouldn't be trying to balance a game based on what the top 1% or so is capable of (though by the same token you shouldn't really balance it by bottom 1% either).
Couple of things that need to be understood. Every game has people capable of pulling insanely high levels of damage. Unless an exploit or a bug is in play that is artificially pumping up the numbers, those are the folks who have taken the time to perfect their craft, typically over the course of years or at least a year and have gotten their build down to a science. being able to do insanely high levels of damage or being nigh unkillable as a tank does not mean it's bad system design. There is only so much HP available to burn through and as your damage output gets higher and higher, you will find those enemies that used to take you 30 seconds to kill, will soon become 25 seconds, then 20, then 15, then 10, and things will become less and less of a challenge outside of elite. For that matter even in elite gradually it will become less and less of a challenge. Folks who spend more time learning the game and invest more resources into their builds will almost always outdo someone who hasn't done as much and isn't as experienced. I say "almost" because there are some exceptions to the rule where I have seen folks who claim to have been around since beta that can't fight they way out of a wet paper bag with 2 razor blades and 5 sets of instructions, or something similar, but I think you get the idea. IDK what experience level either of you are at, though I have seen spiritborn around a bit. Either way both of you can do that same level of damage if you take the time to build the ship and get used to flying it properly. In this game it's about 20% setup, and the other 80% how you use those items. A power activation at the wrong time can mean the difference between 200k, or 150k sometimes.
With STO if you don't intend to go above elite difficulty, generally 20k DPS will get you through most stuff, with 50k being more than plenty for advanced content. I would advise shooting for 30k at least if you're going to stay on advanced level. This way you're contributing to the run and have far less of a chance of being AFKed if/when you do run into a mega dps runner. AFK penalty is only 1-2% of the damage for the entire run on average. This means you only have to do 2% of the total damage over the entire run, not sustained, but 2% of the total damage dealt over the entire run to avoid an AFK penalty. If you can't do that, you are not yet ready for advanced content, especially elite where you can fail due to insufficient dps.
Far as balancing goes, you ideally want to have it in the butter zone. You want it to have a fair amount of challenge, but not so much that blinking at the wrong time gets you killed. On the opposite end you don't want it to be so easy you can literally play the game in your sleep. If you raise the required skill bar to the attic level of Stovo'kor itself there will still be people who do that insane level of damage. On the opposite end, you can lower the skill bar to the basement level of Gret'thor itself and there will still be people who can't do it short of giving them an "I win" button, because they fit into one of two groups. First group is those that legitimately don't know any better and will learn given enough time and effort to improve. Second group are those that refuse to learn and get better, that will never get better because it's always the fault of the game, it's never them, their build is the "bestest ever because it's x ship and that's who x was on in the show" or something like that. First group can be helped, second group can't. As for me I don't see why sometimes folks (not you 2 but generalized term) find requiring a certain minimum amount of effort from folks so unreasonable. For me I've always subscribed to the notion that folks should be able to put for the basic minimum the game requires for the difficulty they're playing on. If an advanced queue requires 40k DPS as a minimum to pass it, everyone in there should be doing 40k. If an elite queue requires folks to do 70k minimum, then everyone in there should be doing 70k at the minimum, if they're not then they're not ready for that run and have no business in there yet.
As for "it's the fault of the player not doing content more fitting for that level of DPS," if they're capable of doing the damage output needed, they have just as much right to be in there as everyone else. There are some instances that simply do not have elite difficulty modes. Other times you may get an endeavor for certain missions you simply can't stand and want to just blow through it on a lower difficulty to get it over with. If I am running on my own I will typically roll advanced most of the time as I don't know what kind of teammate I'm getting on elite, and typically I have not had good luck running elites in a pug group for a variety of reasons. As long as the pilot has an idea of what they're doing and the ship has a proper setup, any t6, t5u, and quite a few t4s, can be made to do over 100k DPS with any energy type, which is more than enough for most content in the game, barring a very select few exceptions.
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Just because someone has uber-DPS, does not necessarily make them a 'better' player nor does it mean they understand the game better either. All that means is they most likely copied a loadout.
Just a quick highlight I remember this by because of how the Kar'fi was changed before f2p to what it is now but one of the changes was that it would stay active as long as the ship had aux power. So when you activated it you would instantly be destroyed if a lucky torp or mine hit you at that very very very small window. So they removed that function from the phase cloak. However I've never seen anything stating it was changed from that but any source today does not mention aux power affecting kinetic resistance. So something did change that but some how that change is breaking whatever mechanics are wiping people like that.
Just thought I would share that because it seems like a very old similar problem but nothing explaining how those mechanics were changed. Although they sound like they are happening exactly like how they happened almost a decade ago. It would perfectly explain how aux2bat becoming popular despite its original weakness.
Sigh, You just cannot copy a uber-DPS loadout and get the same results as the original pilot or Captain.
As dark said before. The synergy of the build is extremely important. However what makes her shine (or fly as Captain Lorca would say) is her captain.
A. DPS-competent groups.
B. A spawn glitch that did not block your mission.
C. You played normal difficulty.
They just get less sober.
If this was true, everyone would have great DPS.
People that say you can copy DPS builds are people that don't understand DPS builds.
Oh I absolutely agree. Don't get me wrong, there are some players who think they are great, but all they've done is copied a loadout and programmed a macro so they can just mash space bar. For me, it's all about timing my use of abilities to maximise the potential of my ship. There's just no fun in 'one button to rule them all' action.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
He wasn't saying that anyone would get the same results as the original.
If the top players can do hundreds of thousands of DPS, then merely copying their builds may mean that the copy cat won't get hundreds of thousands of DPS - but he could still easily reach numbers sufficient to do what the OP is describing.
Doing just as much damage as the original pilot is in no way necessary to quickly and easily kill enemies - or even relevant to the topic.
Well, no.
Some people might simply not bother copying uber-DPS builds. The fact that not everyone has great DPS, is in no way evidence against the statement that high DPS 'could' be obtained by copying a good build.
It is strange to argue that, if obtaining high DPS would be possible by merely copying someone else's build, everyone should then have high DPS. There are plenty of reasons why that need not be true, 'not bothering' being just one example.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hm, maybe they could add some new type of cursor unlock to the Lobi store.
The same Ferengi who's responsible for the discoballs and the nullifiers would probably love this idea.
You and I must be playing different games then. Melting stuff on advanced is rather easy - with my own builds. And I barely do over 100k damage I think.
But anyway, the point remains the same: it is possible to copy a build and do high amounts of damage (which is something different than the same amount of damage as the original pilot - that's what I was pointing out).
The fact that one player failed while trying that, is still no evidence that it's not possible. Sure, pilotting and knowing when to activate what are important.
But let's not forget that simply upgrading stuff and getting the right amount of gear also allows for reaching amounts of damage that most of the game's content simply isn't designed to sustain.
To illustrate this: I created a new account, without any good traits like the Sci R&D one, with gear barely upgraded above level 12, without set bonuses, without Research lab partigens consoles or any of the other dozens of boosts I use on my regular account's main character.
And yet a single activation of Delayed overload cascade can almost destroy an entire group of enemies. That's without using destabilising resonance beam for example, or any exotic damage consoles.
If you are less experienced or less min max minded and you want to have a easy go in PvE just build a low cost Control/EPG sci ship.
Here is how to put together a low cost ship that will out DPS 95% of other players... and make almost all PvE maps a walk even if you have a random Que team of super low DPS toons. (and evaporate things if you random a few people with decent dmg numbers)
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Trait:_Spore-Infused_Anomalies Trait from a Zen ship.... if you build around this trait as your dmg trait... slot as many Science and Intel skills as possible. The best ship options of these builds will be ships that can slot as many as possible. And ensure you slot as many Anomalies as possible.
One of the best ships happens to be one most people got for nothing.
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Vulcan_T'Pau_Scout_Ship
Another good zen store trait is
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Trait:_Improved_Gravity_Well
For a super low cost build slot 5 of these... [Console - Science - Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XII [CtrlX] [EPG]] from the fleet research lab. There are best in slot sci dmg consoles for the rest of the slots... but they are not required for a good low cost high dmg build.... fill those out later if you want or throw whatever in there its really no big deal.
Here is a simple Vulcan ship plan for a CHEAP big dmg big control build. 5 research consoles.... Spore infused trait.... Gravity well doff. (do whatever you like with everything else... slot your cheap consoles cheap traits expensive stuff it won't make a massive difference) Slot 3 torps in the front... and run 3 torp doffs or just slot the ship trait Ceaseless momentum it can be had for fed players for peanuts on the exchange.
Intel Team 1 / Ionic turbulence / Transport torp
Emergency power to engines 1 / Aux to Sif 1
Hazards 1 / Cold in Space 2 / Photonic officer 2
Jam Sensors 1 (there is another ship trait that is cheap on the exchange called catastrophic overload... good option on the cheap that gives Jam nice aoe dmg and a disable)
Tractor beam 1 / Scramble 1 / Photonic Shockwave 1 / Gravity Well III
Anyway one (or two) zen store traits... a free event ship... a couple million in inexpensive traits you can get on the exchange... 5 fleet consoles. And your golden. That build has 3 anomalies perfect cool downs with Photonic officer and you can just spam sci and intel skills. You can min max it to be one of the highest DPS builds in the game... but just at its core it will out dps almost anyone you find in a random Que... and even with just the fleet consoles your GW will be well over 10km pull. So yes in maps like counterpoint it will suck all the stuff up... and if you pop ALL your sci and intel skills you too can evaporate the map.
Crappy is better than Average?
While I agree that the Average Player does about 10k, how is that worse than Crappy? Because honestly that makes it sound terrible.
I agree that the best deserve their DPS because they know thier build inside and out, and have things so synergized that it makes a swiss watch look like something you get out of a Happy Meal.
But I kinda don't see how you can call yourself Crappy, and then list Average players below you. I myself am in that so called Average range, with a couple ships pushing the higher end, but they are also solid, balanced builds that can respond to just about any threat short of a PvPer. Could I do better? Maybe. But that also gets into a level of micromanagement and synergizing that goes beyond what I've got and may be capable of getting in terms of in game resources.
Think the only ship that actually goes higher than my cruisers is actually my Megawell build. But that's sci magic.
So honestly cold... you're not "Crappy".
This is a typical experience on normal difficulty. Anything you throw together works just fine.. when you go up to advanced content you need more synergy and slight skill.. Elite is a whole different story.
I would suggest running some Elites and you'll quickly see that at that point just having a 'good build' is not enough.. you have to know exactly how it works and when to use what. Sounds like you would enjoy it. If you think you can just copy builds and run those maps.. you can't. Try it and you'll see what I mean.
that is not necessarily true. you give me the exact same build as someone in the platinum DPS league and I really doubt I could come close, probably something closer to 50% of that person's DPS. What you said is essentially, hand a bum a Stradivarius violin, and he will be good enough to play for the Pops.. that simply is not true.