To me it becomes problematic, because it takes having my seven alts doing the Admiralty in order to support two toons who are in any real way up-to-date on the various game mechanics (new traits, weapons, abilities, consoles, etc) because unless there's a corresponding increase in refining limits, I'd never actually be able to afford anything from the C-store until months after the game's mechanics have moved on to something else due to power creep. I was just looking at the exchange yesterday to see how long it will take - counted in weeks - just to get the Gagarin for its trait. This does sort of put an end to the idea that STO is F2P in any practical sense.
I completely agree. I'm uninstalling.
Thanks everyone. You were the best part of the game.
To me it becomes problematic, because it takes having my seven alts doing the Admiralty in order to support two toons who are in any real way up-to-date on the various game mechanics (new traits, weapons, abilities, consoles, etc) because unless there's a corresponding increase in refining limits, I'd never actually be able to afford anything from the C-store until months after the game's mechanics have moved on to something else due to power creep. I was just looking at the exchange yesterday to see how long it will take - counted in weeks - just to get the Gagarin for its trait. This does sort of put an end to the idea that STO is F2P in any practical sense.
I completely agree. I'm uninstalling.
Thanks everyone. You were the best part of the game.
This isn't a effort to stabilize the economy. It's a way to force more zen sales.
No one is forcing anyone to buy zen items, ships, etc. So many people use the word 'force' in the wrong way. I have nothing bad to say for the change. The player is the one who decides to buy the ships, items, etc. No one else does.
Thank you Cryptic for killing Admiralty for me with these changes that's a 36 character account that no longer requires me to manage part of the game. Also no reason to buy ships for Admiralty cards anymore.
Great change. Not
Its not like I have immediate access to that 30k TOD dil I can still only refine 8k a day.
Will this affect the Dilex. I thought it was Player controlled like the exchange. Are people going to undercut each other and drop the value of dil from 460-230 just to move some zen?
I do grind out dil the daily limit of 8k or even 16k depending what the reserve pool is like on my characters via RTFO's and Dyson BZ if i have enough time per day but I like to have a reserve of pool if those days I can't or don't feel like it
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Cryptic knows there are players who aren't in fleets, right? This is definitely a slap in the face for people who just want to play the game solo. Even if the economy needs some tweaking, can't it be done in a way that doesn't TRIBBLE people over who just want to be left alone?
Cryptic has massively increased dil rewards over the years, to the point where the dil exchange is nearing the 500 cap.
Yes, you're losing this one source and that stings since you avoid fleets, but long term players remember not having Admiralty at all.
Well if that admiralty dilithium was used for yourself and not sold off, then it sucks, because end use prices have not changed. It still costs 40k for a pack of phoenix upgrades and whatever for reputation gear. So instead of generating 120k dil in however long it took to run 2x KDF and Ferengi campaigns, and use it to buy 30 phoenix boxes, you can only now get 60k in that time, so it takes you twice as long to get your phoenix boxes or whatever.
A couple of folks in here need to dial it way back.
With that said, I'm not fond of it being fleet only dilithium either and would rather them have given us a choice between fleet only dilithium and/or reputation only dilithium. Do 2 25k boxes that give you a choice between 25k of each type. Perhaps one time through folks would do purely fleet dilithium, other times perhaps reputation only. I've also said they need to give more reliable sinks that people will want to invest in. Phoenix packs are great as the upgrades will always be available. However at the same time once a person has upgrade their stuff, if they're not doing alts then it kind of negates the purpose of the box. What they need are reliable dilithium sinks that will always retain value. Fleet holdings only work for a time then you require more. Reputations only work for a time. So whatever they use will need to be phoenix token quality or greater in terms of value.
Also there are other ways to earn dilithium than purely admiralty. Do the daily quests in the Dyson Ground BZ, get 2 dinos, and you should be capped out. Otherwise do a quick TFO like a crystalline and you're done. I can help folks learn routes and recommend other ways to earn it if needed. Also willing to help folks grind out some bits of gear if needed to get a basic build rolling.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I am using my Dilithium FOR my Fleet. So... YEA!!!
BUT... I only play DOFFing and the fun games during Winter and Summer and Anniversary. (Totally miss the Foundry missions.)
So not sure if getting Dilithium Bonus Pool is worth anything, really. ????
I guess, I will just have to wait and see.
LOVE the Weekend Event, though. I have something like 10-12 low level characters on the back burner. Plus getting 3 out of 4 Jem'Hadars to finish up their campaigns faster would be nice.... another box to check off in that Transponder of theirs.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I used to use admiralty for dilithium until I had a job and also found even if I didnt, id not have the time to run admiralty on more a few characters as it too much time to go through every characters admiralty dossier. Same for duty officers.
Its still a useful system but I got 90% of my dil by playing the game or selling zen.
Edit. Besides it was way to tedious and I have better things to do with my time.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
So... instead of rewarding us a ca. weekly 30k per tour, now we get the 'gift' of having to grind 30k in TFO's first afterwards, ere we can cash in on what was already ours before? Lovely Cryptic. Greed is, indeed, eternal.
QUESTION: Are any of the TOUR OF DUTY campaigns my characters are in the middle of going to reset to level 1 when this goes into effect? I think I have a few on mission 5 or 6... I think one is on mission 9. (I can get that done by today, though).
Oh, wait a min... no I won't be able to get that done.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
To me it becomes problematic, because it takes having my seven alts doing the Admiralty in order to support two toons who are in any real way up-to-date on the various game mechanics (new traits, weapons, abilities, consoles, etc) because unless there's a corresponding increase in refining limits, I'd never actually be able to afford anything from the C-store until months after the game's mechanics have moved on to something else due to power creep. I was just looking at the exchange yesterday to see how long it will take - counted in weeks - just to get the Gagarin for its trait. This does sort of put an end to the idea that STO is F2P in any practical sense.
No. this actually helps them as well. You're two mains doing the ferengi for the reward over time. You're still getting the total 30K dil there. The fleet dil vouchers, not only work to feed projects, you can use them to obtain fleet gear as well, again, not hurting your refined dil. Which you can still use the latter as well to obtain fleet gear, or use it for rep gear/upgrades.
So, this turns into a balancing act, that for the first time ever, is actually pretty well balanced. It another way to achieve what I suggested in one of the Dilex to high posts. Remove the 30K dil from both and replace them with elite choice marks. This would be helpful in gearing up, as well still being able to exchange them for dil. Just the Klingon one if fleet only now, whith an added 20K bounus dil, you know up from the 30K you'd normally get.
Dear developers! I think you made a huge mistake. By eliminating this form of Dilithium acquisition, you put those who don't have enough time to play a hopeless situation because they have to work. They have been lost the hope of advancing by this system, if you abolish this, and many may leave the game because the goals are so hopelessly far away that they would rather not start.
Please, at least have some middle ground, say 40,000 Dilithium still available.
Sorry, English is not my first language. And I have to work but I want to move forward in the game, so at least keep the opportunity to get dilithium in this system (at least 40,000 Dilithium)
> @ussvaliant#6064 said: > Thank you Cryptic for killing Admiralty for me with these changes that's a 36 character account that no longer requires me to manage part of the game. Also no reason to buy ships for Admiralty cards anymore. > > Great change. Not > > Its not like I have immediate access to that 30k TOD dil I can still only refine 8k a day. > > Will this affect the Dilex. I thought it was Player controlled like the exchange. Are people going to undercut each other and drop the value of dil from 460-230 just to move some zen? > > I do grind out dil the daily limit of 8k or even 16k depending what the reserve pool is like on my characters via RTFO's and Dyson BZ if i have enough time per day but I like to have a reserve of pool if those days I can't or don't feel like it
The problem atm is theres to much dil on the exchange, and while people are saying they need more sinks, its really both we need. We need both new sinks and cutting excess dil. Admiralty was op with the tour of duty because people would use shuttles as easy skip tokens.
It also had the highest reward to lowest difficulty.
Besides you can far exceed the refinement cap with farming reputation like Dyson sphere or random tfos in very, very little time. And admiralty still gives a decent supply of extra dilithium with the normal assignments.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
I generally use the Admiralty system for the XP so I can level up my specializations, then kinda forget about it. Might have to get back into it though for the fleet dil.
I think people forget that with less and less dil with people like me who buy dil with Zen, the supply of Zen will still drop. You may not earn as much but you wont need to earn as much.
Edit: the fleet dilithium will help a lot for those who rather put other things into fleets.
Post edited by drunkflux#5679 on
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Without a big dilithium sink, I don't see this bringing the dilex down much. I see this making the ec exchange explode. Hello 10 million+ EC lock box keys.
> @laughinxan said: > I think people forget that with less and less dil with people like me who buy dil with Zen, the supply of Zen will still drop. You may not earn as much but you wont need to earn as much.
Fleet dil seems like it'll be very, very helpful.
Edit: delete this post meant to edit the above.
Post edited by drunkflux#5679 on
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
I'm conflicted. I think it'll probably be a good thing (and certainly good for my fleets), but personally... I had just recently started using admiralty to farm dil and saw a whole bunch of possibilities for my characters. I was even going to use some to get keys to open lockboxes (and get lobi ships). I even saw a possibility of getting some of the more out-of-reach-ships (the ones at 1.5 billion on the exchange), after a while. I do play my 17 characters so the bonus pool dilithium means this won't be as much of a negative for me as it would be for someone with less time to play.
---
The Klingon Campaign will now offer 50,000 Fleet Voucher Dilithium as a reward, and the Ferengi Campaign will now offer 30,000 Dilithium Ore Bonus Pool. That means that, after you complete a Ferengi Tour of Duty, you’ll receive bonus Dilithium each time you are rewarded Dilithium in the game, until the bonus pool is depleted.
---
The fleet dil voucher will be a big help to any fleet that isn't maxed out yet AND it doesn't need to be refined. That's a nice way to reduce dil inflation / the dilex and force moochers to contribute to their fleets.
The 30,000 dil bonus pool still gives characters that actually play the game the same reward as before, just over time. It's only a nerf for parked farming alts.
Good work Cryptic! You've done something for the dilex and fleets, while only hurting farmers.
I agree, but that's not the end of it. For larger fleets I expect the fleet dil voucers will become the same kind of garbage fleet marks are. 50k is a lot and there is no purpose for them if the projects are full.
And I also expect nobody will ever put any real dil into a fleet project ever again, so I wouldn't go cheering for the dilex just yet either.
The goal seems to be to reduce the supply of Dilithium so that the Dilithium Exchange gets a bit more favorable rates for F2P. players. That kinda makes sense to me.
Some observations:
30,000 bonus Dilithium is still 30,000 Diithium in the end. If the rate is something like 2 Dilithium earned grant you 3 Dilithium, you need to do something 5,280 Dilthium Dilithium to reach the daily refinement cap as long as you still have a bonus available.
50,000 Fleet Voucher Dilithium is stuff you can't use for everything, of course. But what should be noted is that the vouchers do not need to be refined, without hindering the Dilithium refinement. So you can dump them directly into fleet gear or to help your fleet projects (also earning you fleet credits). I could easily see that helping with a lot of Fleet Colony Holdings.
It means that less Dilthium can be directed at the Dilithium Exchange, but fleet projects might advance more quickly.
Also of note: Whales might be "hurt" more by this than F2P, because as a whale, you tend to sit on a huge stack of Admiralty cards that can easily knock out the 10 Tour of Duty missions over 10 days, barely needing to spend any pass tokens because you can beat pretty much anything the game throws at you anyway. You only need pass tokens for when RNG refuses to give you a Tour of Duty assignment.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
---
The Klingon Campaign will now offer 50,000 Fleet Voucher Dilithium as a reward, and the Ferengi Campaign will now offer 30,000 Dilithium Ore Bonus Pool. That means that, after you complete a Ferengi Tour of Duty, you’ll receive bonus Dilithium each time you are rewarded Dilithium in the game, until the bonus pool is depleted.
---
The fleet dil voucher will be a big help to any fleet that isn't maxed out yet AND it doesn't need to be refined. That's a nice way to reduce dil inflation / the dilex and force moochers to contribute to their fleets.
The 30,000 dil bonus pool still gives characters that actually play the game the same reward as before, just over time. It's only a nerf for parked farming alts.
Good work Cryptic! You've done something for the dilex and fleets, while only hurting farmers.
I agree, but that's not the end of it. For larger fleets I expect the fleet dil voucers will become the same kind of garbage fleet marks are. 50k is a lot and there is no purpose for them if the projects are full.
And I also expect nobody will ever put any real dil into a fleet project ever again, so I wouldn't go cheering for the dilex just yet either.
Based in the fleets I'm in (which is an anecdote so not hard evidence) most of the people earning the 30,000 dil now are not giving 30,000 "regular" dil to their fleet so even if they stop giving any regular dil at all the regular dil supply will still drop.
Also, even if your fleet is maxed you can still donate to another fleet in the armada and earn some credits you can turn into duty officers if nothing else. Or energy credits by selling the doffs.
> @warpangel said: > (Quote) > > I agree, but that's not the end of it. For larger fleets I expect the fleet dil voucers will become the same kind of garbage fleet marks are. 50k is a lot and there is no purpose for them if the projects are full. > > And I also expect nobody will ever put any real dil into a fleet project ever again, so I wouldn't go cheering for the dilex just yet either.
Doubt it. 90% problems with large fleets is dilithium. Cannot contribute marks cause not enough dilithium going into the fleets.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
The klingon campaign giving fleet dil will be quite use full thing to have. However, the changes to the ferengi TOD will render the ferengi admiralty useless. I have 8 toons and what you make off of playing 1 of them a day isnt enough to support the needs of all 8. They are now forced to suffer with lev 12 gear thru lev 65 and oh well.
> @saedeith said: > Without a big dilithium sink, I don't see this bringing the dilex down much. I see this making the ec exchange explode. Hello 10 million+ EC lock box keys.
The damage was already done. But as the dil to zen lowers it may lower key prices after.
Things will calm down after a point. As for those leaving, well hey, if you werent actually playing then why were you driving prices up and up.
I hope this actually starts it from the beginning. I had a post in there but I slowly came to think about it, he had a point.
Its gotten out of hand. And this isnt going to hurt me any even as a minor whale with a lot of ships. It took up so much time for me to grind admiralty I stopped after work. Id rather play the game and enjoy it over playing this game like a Facebook mobile game.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
The klingon campaign giving fleet dil will be quite use full thing to have. However, the changes to the ferengi TOD will render the ferengi admiralty useless.
Only for farmers. If you actually play the game with that character you still get the full 30K for Ferengi over time.
I have to say that I really, really hate the idea of tying anything in the game directly to fleets. It's one thing to use Admiralty as a source of dil/EC/whatever to dump into a fleet, but making the Klingon Tour of Duty reward something that can only be used for fleet projects just doesn't sit right with me. Not everyone's in a fleet, not everyone wants to be in one, why cut them off from this thing that they've always had access to? Fleets get enough benefits as it is, no need to take things away from the solo side.
Comments
I completely agree. I'm uninstalling.
Thanks everyone. You were the best part of the game.
Please don't go.
No one is forcing anyone to buy zen items, ships, etc. So many people use the word 'force' in the wrong way. I have nothing bad to say for the change. The player is the one who decides to buy the ships, items, etc. No one else does.
Great change. Not
Its not like I have immediate access to that 30k TOD dil I can still only refine 8k a day.
Will this affect the Dilex. I thought it was Player controlled like the exchange. Are people going to undercut each other and drop the value of dil from 460-230 just to move some zen?
I do grind out dil the daily limit of 8k or even 16k depending what the reserve pool is like on my characters via RTFO's and Dyson BZ if i have enough time per day but I like to have a reserve of pool if those days I can't or don't feel like it
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Well if that admiralty dilithium was used for yourself and not sold off, then it sucks, because end use prices have not changed. It still costs 40k for a pack of phoenix upgrades and whatever for reputation gear. So instead of generating 120k dil in however long it took to run 2x KDF and Ferengi campaigns, and use it to buy 30 phoenix boxes, you can only now get 60k in that time, so it takes you twice as long to get your phoenix boxes or whatever.
With that said, I'm not fond of it being fleet only dilithium either and would rather them have given us a choice between fleet only dilithium and/or reputation only dilithium. Do 2 25k boxes that give you a choice between 25k of each type. Perhaps one time through folks would do purely fleet dilithium, other times perhaps reputation only. I've also said they need to give more reliable sinks that people will want to invest in. Phoenix packs are great as the upgrades will always be available. However at the same time once a person has upgrade their stuff, if they're not doing alts then it kind of negates the purpose of the box. What they need are reliable dilithium sinks that will always retain value. Fleet holdings only work for a time then you require more. Reputations only work for a time. So whatever they use will need to be phoenix token quality or greater in terms of value.
Also there are other ways to earn dilithium than purely admiralty. Do the daily quests in the Dyson Ground BZ, get 2 dinos, and you should be capped out. Otherwise do a quick TFO like a crystalline and you're done. I can help folks learn routes and recommend other ways to earn it if needed. Also willing to help folks grind out some bits of gear if needed to get a basic build rolling.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
BUT... I only play DOFFing and the fun games during Winter and Summer and Anniversary. (Totally miss the Foundry missions.)
So not sure if getting Dilithium Bonus Pool is worth anything, really. ????
I guess, I will just have to wait and see.
LOVE the Weekend Event, though. I have something like 10-12 low level characters on the back burner. Plus getting 3 out of 4 Jem'Hadars to finish up their campaigns faster would be nice.... another box to check off in that Transponder of theirs.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Its still a useful system but I got 90% of my dil by playing the game or selling zen.
Edit. Besides it was way to tedious and I have better things to do with my time.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Oh, wait a min... no I won't be able to get that done.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
No. this actually helps them as well. You're two mains doing the ferengi for the reward over time. You're still getting the total 30K dil there. The fleet dil vouchers, not only work to feed projects, you can use them to obtain fleet gear as well, again, not hurting your refined dil. Which you can still use the latter as well to obtain fleet gear, or use it for rep gear/upgrades.
So, this turns into a balancing act, that for the first time ever, is actually pretty well balanced. It another way to achieve what I suggested in one of the Dilex to high posts. Remove the 30K dil from both and replace them with elite choice marks. This would be helpful in gearing up, as well still being able to exchange them for dil. Just the Klingon one if fleet only now, whith an added 20K bounus dil, you know up from the 30K you'd normally get.
Please, at least have some middle ground, say 40,000 Dilithium still available.
Sorry, English is not my first language. And I have to work but I want to move forward in the game, so at least keep the opportunity to get dilithium in this system (at least 40,000 Dilithium)
> Thank you Cryptic for killing Admiralty for me with these changes that's a 36 character account that no longer requires me to manage part of the game. Also no reason to buy ships for Admiralty cards anymore.
>
> Great change. Not
>
> Its not like I have immediate access to that 30k TOD dil I can still only refine 8k a day.
>
> Will this affect the Dilex. I thought it was Player controlled like the exchange. Are people going to undercut each other and drop the value of dil from 460-230 just to move some zen?
>
> I do grind out dil the daily limit of 8k or even 16k depending what the reserve pool is like on my characters via RTFO's and Dyson BZ if i have enough time per day but I like to have a reserve of pool if those days I can't or don't feel like it
The problem atm is theres to much dil on the exchange, and while people are saying they need more sinks, its really both we need. We need both new sinks and cutting excess dil. Admiralty was op with the tour of duty because people would use shuttles as easy skip tokens.
It also had the highest reward to lowest difficulty.
Besides you can far exceed the refinement cap with farming reputation like Dyson sphere or random tfos in very, very little time. And admiralty still gives a decent supply of extra dilithium with the normal assignments.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Edit: the fleet dilithium will help a lot for those who rather put other things into fleets.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
> I think people forget that with less and less dil with people like me who buy dil with Zen, the supply of Zen will still drop. You may not earn as much but you wont need to earn as much.
Fleet dil seems like it'll be very, very helpful.
Edit: delete this post meant to edit the above.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
I agree, but that's not the end of it. For larger fleets I expect the fleet dil voucers will become the same kind of garbage fleet marks are. 50k is a lot and there is no purpose for them if the projects are full.
And I also expect nobody will ever put any real dil into a fleet project ever again, so I wouldn't go cheering for the dilex just yet either.
Some observations:
30,000 bonus Dilithium is still 30,000 Diithium in the end. If the rate is something like 2 Dilithium earned grant you 3 Dilithium, you need to do something 5,280 Dilthium Dilithium to reach the daily refinement cap as long as you still have a bonus available.
50,000 Fleet Voucher Dilithium is stuff you can't use for everything, of course. But what should be noted is that the vouchers do not need to be refined, without hindering the Dilithium refinement. So you can dump them directly into fleet gear or to help your fleet projects (also earning you fleet credits). I could easily see that helping with a lot of Fleet Colony Holdings.
It means that less Dilthium can be directed at the Dilithium Exchange, but fleet projects might advance more quickly.
Also of note: Whales might be "hurt" more by this than F2P, because as a whale, you tend to sit on a huge stack of Admiralty cards that can easily knock out the 10 Tour of Duty missions over 10 days, barely needing to spend any pass tokens because you can beat pretty much anything the game throws at you anyway. You only need pass tokens for when RNG refuses to give you a Tour of Duty assignment.
Based in the fleets I'm in (which is an anecdote so not hard evidence) most of the people earning the 30,000 dil now are not giving 30,000 "regular" dil to their fleet so even if they stop giving any regular dil at all the regular dil supply will still drop.
Also, even if your fleet is maxed you can still donate to another fleet in the armada and earn some credits you can turn into duty officers if nothing else. Or energy credits by selling the doffs.
> (Quote)
>
> I agree, but that's not the end of it. For larger fleets I expect the fleet dil voucers will become the same kind of garbage fleet marks are. 50k is a lot and there is no purpose for them if the projects are full.
>
> And I also expect nobody will ever put any real dil into a fleet project ever again, so I wouldn't go cheering for the dilex just yet either.
Doubt it. 90% problems with large fleets is dilithium. Cannot contribute marks cause not enough dilithium going into the fleets.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Do you still need "extra" ships TO buy??? I got ship cards coming out of my ears.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Goodbye phoenix prize pack upgrades
> Without a big dilithium sink, I don't see this bringing the dilex down much. I see this making the ec exchange explode. Hello 10 million+ EC lock box keys.
The damage was already done. But as the dil to zen lowers it may lower key prices after.
Things will calm down after a point. As for those leaving, well hey, if you werent actually playing then why were you driving prices up and up.
I hope this actually starts it from the beginning. I had a post in there but I slowly came to think about it, he had a point.
Its gotten out of hand. And this isnt going to hurt me any even as a minor whale with a lot of ships. It took up so much time for me to grind admiralty I stopped after work. Id rather play the game and enjoy it over playing this game like a Facebook mobile game.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Only for farmers. If you actually play the game with that character you still get the full 30K for Ferengi over time.
Meh, doing it because I'm KDF anyway