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Space Forces uses Star Trek Symbol as Emblem

lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
edited January 2020 in Ten Forward
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/24/politics/space-force-star-trek-logo-donald-trump/index.html

Is it wrong that I'm glad they did use it, copyright be damned ?
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Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    Not to mention the idiotic reasoning of "protecting us from Space Pirates", which I think a politician tried to push one time...

    WHAT SPACE PIRATES?!
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    I read a Star Trek novel decades ago that stated that the Star Trek symbo was a graph of Energy vs Time for FTL. The top curve represented standard travel where it takes more and more energy to get an object to light speed while the bottom curve represented the shortcut achieved through warp travel. Although, it is more likely that both the Starfleet and Space Command symbols originated from the NASA symbol.

    Apparently the Space Force symbol is just a modified version of the Air Force Space Command symbol. So if someone copied Star Trek, then it wasn't Trump.
    spaceforce_to_command.jpg
  • wildthyme467989wildthyme467989 Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/24/politics/space-force-star-trek-logo-donald-trump/index.html

    Is it wrong that I'm glad they did use it, copyright be damned ?

    Looks more like the Terran Federation logo from Blake's 7 to me, just turned on it's head with a starfield backdrop
  • lazarus51166lazarus51166 Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    Yeah this looks like nothing more than a coincidence using pre-existing military logos as an inspiration. CNN is grasping at straws and trying to make connections that aren't actually there. and even if they were it wouldn't have anything to do with trump, its not his job to design logos or anything of that nature. If anything this makes CNN look bad

    They are also getting things backwards, in that the people developing that starfleet logo were taking cues from real life military logos of the US, so there is that as well
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    I read a Star Trek novel decades ago that stated that the Star Trek symbo was a graph of Energy vs Time for FTL. The top curve represented standard travel where it takes more and more energy to get an object to light speed while the bottom curve represented the shortcut achieved through warp travel. Although, it is more likely that both the Starfleet and Space Command symbols originated from the NASA symbol.

    Apparently the Space Force symbol is just a modified version of the Air Force Space Command symbol. So if someone copied Star Trek, then it wasn't Trump.
    spaceforce_to_command.jpg

    There are 2 options here: either they were so lazy they didn't bother even comparing it to the existing AF symbols OR they knew it was based on those existing AF symbols and still intentionally pushed this "copying Trek" narrative. Either way makes them untrustworthy.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    > @thegrandnagus1 said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > There are 2 options here: either they were so lazy they didn't bother even comparing it to the existing AF symbols OR they knew it was based on those existing AF symbols and still intentionally pushed this "copying Trek" narrative. Either way makes them untrustworthy.

    CNN/MSM being untrustworthy worthy, that is like saying is water wet.
  • jake477jake477 Member Posts: 526 Arc User
    With the Earth graphic behind it, it looks like the TNG Logo. LOL

    2063 here we come!
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    Yeah this looks like nothing more than a coincidence using pre-existing military logos as an inspiration. CNN is grasping at straws and trying to make connections that aren't actually there. and even if they were it wouldn't have anything to do with trump, its not his job to design logos or anything of that nature. If anything this makes CNN look bad

    They are also getting things backwards, in that the people developing that starfleet logo were taking cues from real life military logos of the US, so there is that as well

    Actually, the Starfleet Delta wasn't from the Air Force one, it is a standard googie aesthetic arrow pointing upwards which is not surprising considering Jefferies used that design aesthetic a lot. In my old neighborhood there was a little strip mall that used the same arrow (though pointing sideways at an angle instead of up) years before Star Trek first aired for instance. Just look up googie architecture and you will see a lot of variations on it.
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    star-wars-empire-clipart-1.png
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,820 Arc User
    Yeah this looks like nothing more than a coincidence using pre-existing military logos as an inspiration. CNN is grasping at straws and trying to make connections that aren't actually there. and even if they were it wouldn't have anything to do with trump, its not his job to design logos or anything of that nature. If anything this makes CNN look bad

    They are also getting things backwards, in that the people developing that starfleet logo were taking cues from real life military logos of the US, so there is that as well

    Not to mention Roddenberry didn't exactly come up with the emblem himself, he took inspiration from other things.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    "Were Space Force! And we're doing... um... something..."​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    Y'know, CNN didn't exactly come up with the comparison. It was all over Twitter within minutes of the Space Force logo being released. Most apt comparison seems to be with the DSC Starfleet Command emblem, which is even in the same colors.

    My personal favorite take on it, though, was with a stylized dagger going through the globe behind the delta, surrounded by the words, "UNITED STATES SPACE FORCE - TERRAN EMPIRE DIVISION".
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    This isn't the first time that the Potus has tripped on copyrights of other works. I'm not one bit surprised he's up to no good again no matter the sources reliability.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    x
    This isn't the first time that the Potus has tripped on copyrights of other works. I'm not one bit surprised he's up to no good again no matter the sources reliability.

    But it is not Trump that copied the Star Trek symbol since they have used a variation of that symbol since 1982.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    mneme0 wrote: »
    star-wars-empire-clipart-1.png
    WALMART-jumbo.jpg

    The source of inspiration becomes more obvious when you look at the in-universe precursors to the Starfleet logo. :platest?cb=20060409215354&format=original&path-prefix=en

    annoying typos....
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    The Starfleet and UESPA delta is nothing more than a standard googie arrow, it even appeared in some drafting templates in the 1960s. With all the googie influence in the design of the TOS Enterprise and the starbase mats it is probably more coincidence than anything else.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    The Starfleet and UESPA delta is nothing more than a standard googie arrow, it even appeared in some drafting templates in the 1960s. With all the googie influence in the design of the TOS Enterprise and the starbase mats it is probably more coincidence than anything else.
    When you look at the TNG combadge, it seems obvious the logo got redesigned to look more like the real space com logo.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    x
    This isn't the first time that the Potus has tripped on copyrights of other works. I'm not one bit surprised he's up to no good again no matter the sources reliability.

    But it is not Trump that copied the Star Trek symbol since they have used a variation of that symbol since 1982.

    oh? and who didn't endorse it? right not the potus...
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    x
    This isn't the first time that the Potus has tripped on copyrights of other works. I'm not one bit surprised he's up to no good again no matter the sources reliability.

    But it is not Trump that copied the Star Trek symbol since they have used a variation of that symbol since 1982.

    oh? and who didn't endorse it? right not the potus...

    If you want to blame a POTUS for using the Star Trek symbol, then blame Reagan. All Trump can be blamed for in this issue is using a variation of the insignia used by Air Force Space Command for almost 40 years.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    x
    This isn't the first time that the Potus has tripped on copyrights of other works. I'm not one bit surprised he's up to no good again no matter the sources reliability.

    But it is not Trump that copied the Star Trek symbol since they have used a variation of that symbol since 1982.
    oh? and who didn't endorse it? right not the potus...
    If you want to blame a POTUS for using the Star Trek symbol, then blame Reagan. All Trump can be blamed for in this issue is using a variation of the insignia used by Air Force Space Command for almost 40 years.
    Yeah, this is a question of which came first. It was not Star Trek. The TNG logo was designed after the Reagen era Space Command logo was designed. So it's Star Trek imitating NASA and USAF.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    x
    This isn't the first time that the Potus has tripped on copyrights of other works. I'm not one bit surprised he's up to no good again no matter the sources reliability.

    But it is not Trump that copied the Star Trek symbol since they have used a variation of that symbol since 1982.
    oh? and who didn't endorse it? right not the potus...
    If you want to blame a POTUS for using the Star Trek symbol, then blame Reagan. All Trump can be blamed for in this issue is using a variation of the insignia used by Air Force Space Command for almost 40 years.
    Yeah, this is a question of which came first. It was not Star Trek. The TNG logo was designed after the Reagen era Space Command logo was designed. So it's Star Trek imitating NASA and USAF.
    The logo, however, is based on the symbol used on the uniforms of the Enterprise crew in TOS. (Apparently Roddenberry had originally planned to have each ship use a different logo, but the costume designers didn't always get the memo.) And the NASA logo of the time, based on the older NACA logo, is unrelated to the Enterprise logo, even if you squint.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    If they kept the older one I'd have no problem with it. The issue with this new one is that the layout is an almost total ripoff of the Starfleet one. While it does fit in with the other branch emblems... the fact that the layout is that close to one from Star Trek just feels like a ripoff.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • Yeah this looks like nothing more than a coincidence using pre-existing military logos as an inspiration. CNN is grasping at straws and trying to make connections that aren't actually there. and even if they were it wouldn't have anything to do with trump, its not his job to design logos or anything of that nature. If anything this makes CNN look bad

    They are also getting things backwards, in that the people developing that starfleet logo were taking cues from real life military logos of the US, so there is that as well

    That is an incorrect statement. If you have paid attention to the current presidents campaign ads on his FB page along with his wife, both have used what you call "coincidence advertisements." CA's are ads that have different backgrounds and colors along with the same wording used in other presidential adds where the words have been changed but the meaning is still the same.

    Coincidence Advertisement is coincidentally called plagiarism or the inability to constructively develop your own campaign slogans and ads.

  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,403 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Yeah this looks like nothing more than a coincidence using pre-existing military logos as an inspiration. CNN is grasping at straws and trying to make connections that aren't actually there. and even if they were it wouldn't have anything to do with trump, its not his job to design logos or anything of that nature. If anything this makes CNN look bad

    They are also getting things backwards, in that the people developing that starfleet logo were taking cues from real life military logos of the US, so there is that as well

    That is an incorrect statement. If you have paid attention to the current presidents campaign ads on his FB page along with his wife, both have used what you call "coincidence advertisements." CA's are ads that have different backgrounds and colors along with the same wording used in other presidential adds where the words have been changed but the meaning is still the same.

    Coincidence Advertisement is coincidentally called plagiarism or the inability to constructively develop your own campaign slogans and ads.

    A coincidence advertisement does not equal plagiarism. Plagiarism is when you take someone's words, claim them as your own, or do not properly cite them. I have no problem with the new United States Space Force logo. Also, this thread is about the Space Force logo and not his campaign ads.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    jonsills wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    x
    This isn't the first time that the Potus has tripped on copyrights of other works. I'm not one bit surprised he's up to no good again no matter the sources reliability.

    But it is not Trump that copied the Star Trek symbol since they have used a variation of that symbol since 1982.
    oh? and who didn't endorse it? right not the potus...
    If you want to blame a POTUS for using the Star Trek symbol, then blame Reagan. All Trump can be blamed for in this issue is using a variation of the insignia used by Air Force Space Command for almost 40 years.
    Yeah, this is a question of which came first. It was not Star Trek. The TNG logo was designed after the Reagen era Space Command logo was designed. So it's Star Trek imitating NASA and USAF.
    The logo, however, is based on the symbol used on the uniforms of the Enterprise crew in TOS. (Apparently Roddenberry had originally planned to have each ship use a different logo, but the costume designers didn't always get the memo.) And the NASA logo of the time, based on the older NACA logo, is unrelated to the Enterprise logo, even if you squint.

    I thought the shapes were ship specific too at first, but it turns out they are for divisions, not individual ships. There were supposed to be six, and the costuming department got them right for the most part, the "Exeter patch" was the only mistake though it could be easily written off as a division that was being merged with the general starship service division and Tracy's ship simply had not changed over yet.

    The fact that TMP shows only the starship service patch could be taken as Starfleet having went though a big reorganization in the late 2260s or first year or two of the 2270s where the "fleet" part of Starfleet becomes the face of the service so they use the general starship service patch style instead of by division any more.

    If they hadn't done that reorganization or whatever it was then the people in DS9 would have been wearing either the starflower of the starbase division or the sideways pinecone looking emblem of outpost/colonial division.
    Post edited by phoenixc#0738 on
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    No, division is indicated by both tunic color and the symbol on the emblem (Engineering & Support Services gets a spiral "lightning bolt", Sciences & Medical gets a stylized opening eye, everybody else gets an elongated star). Roddenberry said that his idea was that each ship would have a different patch, since originally he'd only thought about the 12 "Starship-class" craft in the first place, with the sunburst seen on starbase personnel being the generalized Starfleet symbol (remembering that "Starfleet" wasn't Roddenberry's idea originally anyway, but rather Gene Coon's). When the delta became the only symbol in TMP, his idea was that Starfleet was celebrating the massive success of the Enterprise's five-year mission under Kirk by adopting the ship's badge as the badge for the entire fleet.

    Yeah, I know, none of that really makes sense, but let's be honest - ol' Gene was a great visionary, but not really much of an SF writer. There's a reason why it was Dorothy Fontana who touched up scripts, not Gene.
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  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    Anyone else annoyed the space force was given to the air force and not the navy? Feels wrong, bloody colonials, no sense of style.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,403 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Anyone else annoyed the space force was given to the air force and not the navy? Feels wrong, bloody colonials, no sense of style.

    Actually it makes sense it would be given to the United States Air Force and not the Navy. Since the Navy is usually at sea and involves naval missions while the Air Force deals with stuff in the air. This would be in space and not on ground. So to me it does not feel wrong. Also, great recruiting tool for people to join.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
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