'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
> @captaincelestial said:
> (Quote)
>
> Well, the whole KT is more of a distortion of the timeline than it was a divergence. The Klingons alone wouldn't have changed so drastically, let alone Khan who predates KT by a couple centuries. Kirk was 36 when Checkov was 22 in the second season while Kirk in the KT was 25 with Checkov being around 18-20.
>
> *sigh* At least (if it does come to be) Captain Pike and company will be the best thing out of the strange need to revise the past.
Marcus has cosmetic surgery done on Khan. Kirk became Captain several years sooner, and by the way he was 28 when he became captain in KT and 31 when he became captain in Prime. The only change to klingons in KT was fashion.
Yes, like Discovery's solution for super advanced tech that shouldn't be around 10 years before Kirk's 5 year mission was to issue a death sentence to anyone who remembers it or Micheal Burnham, having extensive surgery that altered not only his body type (medium build with defined muscles to a taller, slightly built man), but his brain was altered enough that it simulated those who develop stroke like symptoms and then recover with a totally different accent.
They also radically improved his intellect and knowledge to be able to develop secret advanced tech beyond what was even available 100 years, the Next Generation.
I know it's hard to believe, but between Deep Space 9 and Enterprise, the TOS Klingons are canon. It wasn't just a fashion change, the arrival of Romulan Star Miners wouldn't have caused the Klingons to go shopping at the Space Goth Store, nor would it spur them to ditch their tried and true ships for 'fashion forward' ships.
Why would the KT have anything to do with it? Everything from CBS and all tie ins are Prime timeline.
That said IIRC the uniform in those comics is just the Sierra uniform from STO or is really heavily based on it.
It's not the same uniform any more than the TNG series 1-2 and 3-7 uniforms are the same one or the Cage and TOS uniforms are the same. They're very similar but not the same. Far right here, longer tunic fit, white piping on a tall collar, division cuffs, cloth not pleather, grey base not black, silver combadge, loose trousers etc.
You missed "or really heavily based on it" part there did you? I would say that orginal TOS versus the first kelvin timeline uniforms would be a closer comparison here sure they're not 100% identical but one is clearly and obviously based on the other.
No I didn't. They are no more based on the Countdown uniforms than any of the uniforms were based on the previous versions.
The KT uniforms predate the TOS ones by about a decade so can't even be based on a prototype due to the divergence.
Well, the whole KT is more of a distortion of the timeline than it was a divergence. The Klingons alone wouldn't have changed so drastically, let alone Khan who predates KT by a couple centuries. Kirk was 36 when Checkov was 22 in the second season while Kirk in the KT was 25 with Checkov being around 18-20.
*sigh* At least (if it does come to be) Captain Pike and company will be the best thing out of the strange need to revise the past.
No, it's a divergence. It only splits after the destruction of the Kelvin hence the name.
The Klingons have not changed at all, Khan is either any other Augment from the crew claiming to be Khan or S31 did something to him, none of the crew other than Kirk, Scotty, Spock, and possibly Sulu are the same people because the others were all born after 2233.
Yes, like Discovery's solution for super advanced tech that shouldn't be around 10 years before Kirk's 5 year mission was to issue a death sentence to anyone who remembers it or Micheal Burnham,
There is no technology in DSC that shouldn't be around before Kirks 5 year mission. There is no threat of death for breaking classified material, only for visiting Talos. You don't understand the concept of classified material?
having extensive surgery that altered not only his body type (medium build with defined muscles to a taller, slightly built man), but his brain was altered enough that it simulated those who develop stroke like symptoms and then recover with a totally different accent.
You are under the impression that a person needs 'extensive surgery' to change their build and accent? Have you possibly developed stroke like symptoms?
They also radically improved his intellect and knowledge to be able to develop secret advanced tech beyond what was even available 100 years, the Next Generation.
And what tech would that be? The Dreadnought is fast but only faster than the Konni, it has little automated drones, but so too does the Prime Conni. There's really nothing special about it beyond being slightly shorter than the Crossfield but larger than any other ship of that era.
I know it's hard to believe, but between Deep Space 9 and Enterprise, the TOS Klingons are canon.
Oh for goodness sake. Cite a source for every single Klingon in the galaxy being effected with the Augment Virus. It was obviously an isolated incident with a small effected population or else it would not have been a surprise that the people in the bar on K13 were Klingons if the history books had an entire empire of people looking like that. Stop making things up.
It wasn't just a fashion change, the arrival of Romulan Star Miners wouldn't have caused the Klingons to go shopping at the Space Goth Store, nor would it spur them to ditch their tried and true ships for 'fashion forward' ships.
Robes and helmets are 'goths' now? Are you one of those people who think Klingons should wear the same costumes for 200 years?
And there's exactly one type of KT Klingon spaceship, the Warbird, which is a battlecruiser identical to the TOS one with more detail. What part of using the same ship is 'ditching'? Do you think about the things you say or just write whilst asleep?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Yeah Discovery was classified on penalty of treason, but treason is not a death sentence in the federation. Only going to Talos IV carries a death sentence.
> @redeyedraven said:
> (Quote)
>
> Treason only gets you to New Zealand.
Yep, just like Tom Paris. Should also note the penalty of treason only applies to those personnell with direct knowledge of Discovery, ie the Enterprise crew, to anyone else its just classified.
I suspect "treason" is to try reveal or try to find out the classified info, also I suspect the existance of USS Discovery (NCC-1031) isn't classified just what it was doing exactly.
but at least some of those records have remained sealed, as that andorian S31 agent in beneath the skin found out when trying to access stamets' personnel file
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
but at least some of those records have remained sealed, as that andorian S31 agent in beneath the skin found out when trying to access stamets' personnel file
Section 31 agent?
She looked more like a normal Starfleet Captain to me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Yep - heding their bets and they'll add "Star Trek: Picard" stuff AND the Michelle Yeoh "Section 31" series stuff down the line.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I suspect this is a lead in to that. Going forward, I wouldn't be surprised to see more Sec 31, Boreth time crystals, giant Sphere creature, Control, related stuff. We know the Red Angel suit is going to make an appearance, they showed it off a bit during STLV.
That might also open them up to create content that requires D7/Donnie-Bridge-interiors.
Obviously you wouldn't want your covert agents to stand out like the proverbial sore thumb. That said Section 31 and Control are 2 different things as far as I know so a "modern" (aka 25c) S31 agent wouldn't be working for Control. Also I suspect that Director Tyler drilled into his agents that trying to repeat events that lead to the biggest TRIBBLE up in the history of Section 31 isn't something they'd ever want to make.
Incidentally, Nick Meyer, writer of TWOK and TUC, director of TWOK, had never seen Trek, Gene hated everything he did and tried repeatedly to get him fired.
Just a minor correction but IIRC Meyer directed both TWOK and TUC (and Wikipedia seems to agree with me here), the rest I have no problems with as Gene Roddenberry was a known raging egoist and if you read even half the stuff he wanted to put in Star Trek but was prevent from putting, you're left shaking your head.
It's not hard to assume that reason why Wesley Crusher was such a bad character during season 1 and 2 of TNG is that his creator was one Eugene Wesley Roddenberry, since the problems with Wesley Crusher stem from him being too perfect.
> @somtaawkhar said:
> (Quote)
> Fixed that for you.
>
> Honestly, it would be easier to make a list of the things Gene didn't hate given how he infamously hated pretty much everything ever made with the Star Trek brand, and how he spent years trying to get half of everyone fired for on reason or another, mostly because they weren't respecting his "vision"
Very very true, honestly I almost wish Meyer had gotten his way in TUC and had Saavik be the traitor.
The reason was actually not even due to Gene, not directly anyways.
Kirstie Alley did a good job as Saavik, but made the mistake of letting her agent do the salary negotiations for the next movie. Which went badly because her agent had no idea what he was doing. But it was too late to re-write, so they re-cast the role.... and decided after the movie was done that they didn't like the second actress enough to use her in the role again. But they made that decision before they finished writing the script so they simply changed the character to Valeris. If the studio had written Alley's contract to last for more than one movie maybe it'd have been different.
She was offered the chance to reprise the role in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, but according to Alley, she was offered less money for that film than she was paid for Star Trek II and thus declined to return. According to Leonard Nimoy, Alley's talent agent demanded a salary that was higher than DeForest Kelley's after learning that Saavik was to have a large role in the film. [1] It was also reported that "Just before production began, negotiations with Kirstie Alley broke down. [...] The Los Angeles Times indicated the problem concerned money with Alley asking 10 times the salary she earned on Star Trek II. [...] Alley's representative, Michael Levine, agreed that the problem was financial, but refused further details." (Starlog #77, December 1983, p. 15) After an intensive casting search, Nimoy opted instead to recast the role of Saavik, which was ultimately given to Robin Curtis.
In a later interview, Alley reported wanted to reprise the role, but Paramount wasn't willing to pay what she was asking, which according to Alley was "less money then they did for Star Trek II, so I figured they weren't very interested in me for Saavik." This, combined with the commitment of a co-starring role in the TV pilot Masquerade for ABC, forced Alley to bow out of the role. (Starlog #102, January 1986, p. 43)
Upon viewing The Search for Spock, Alley found the film an enjoyable but unnerving experience, as she came to the realization that of Curtis' as Saavik, "She wasn't me". Sympathizing with Curtis, however, Alley revealed that "I thought she was at a real disadvantage playing the role someone else established, especially with Star Trek, which has an enormous following. I think she did a fine job. I have no problem with what she was doing except that, when I saw the film, I said, 'She isn't Saavik. I am.'" (Starlog #102, January 1986, p, 43)
When it was revealed that there would be an upcoming, and yet untitled, Star Trek IV, Alley said that she would gladly join the crew if she was asked, "I would be very interested in doing Star Trek IV, I really liked playing Saavik. It was my first role and I feel a certain allegiance to her. But they've said nothing to me about it." (Starlog #102, January 1986, p, 44)
Honestly I found the Saavik character unrecognizable in ST3 since she didn't look or act the same. It's still a GOOD character, but they'd have been better off making it a new person.
Saavik was to have reprised her role in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, but was replaced with Valeris, reportedly because Gene Roddenberry was concerned that fans had become so fond of Saavik that they would react negatively to her turning out to be a traitor. In addition, no one wanted to have to cast a third actress to play the same role: Kirstie Alley had declined to return, and Nicholas Meyer was not a fan of Robin Curtis's portrayal.
But yeah, they didn't really want to make Saavik a villain, but also they decided not to use Saavik in a third movie due to casting issues.
Comments
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yes, like Discovery's solution for super advanced tech that shouldn't be around 10 years before Kirk's 5 year mission was to issue a death sentence to anyone who remembers it or Micheal Burnham, having extensive surgery that altered not only his body type (medium build with defined muscles to a taller, slightly built man), but his brain was altered enough that it simulated those who develop stroke like symptoms and then recover with a totally different accent.
They also radically improved his intellect and knowledge to be able to develop secret advanced tech beyond what was even available 100 years, the Next Generation.
I know it's hard to believe, but between Deep Space 9 and Enterprise, the TOS Klingons are canon. It wasn't just a fashion change, the arrival of Romulan Star Miners wouldn't have caused the Klingons to go shopping at the Space Goth Store, nor would it spur them to ditch their tried and true ships for 'fashion forward' ships.
No, it's a divergence. It only splits after the destruction of the Kelvin hence the name.
The Klingons have not changed at all, Khan is either any other Augment from the crew claiming to be Khan or S31 did something to him, none of the crew other than Kirk, Scotty, Spock, and possibly Sulu are the same people because the others were all born after 2233.
There is no technology in DSC that shouldn't be around before Kirks 5 year mission. There is no threat of death for breaking classified material, only for visiting Talos. You don't understand the concept of classified material?
You are under the impression that a person needs 'extensive surgery' to change their build and accent? Have you possibly developed stroke like symptoms?
And what tech would that be? The Dreadnought is fast but only faster than the Konni, it has little automated drones, but so too does the Prime Conni. There's really nothing special about it beyond being slightly shorter than the Crossfield but larger than any other ship of that era.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Treason only gets you to New Zealand.
I suspect "treason" is to try reveal or try to find out the classified info, also I suspect the existance of USS Discovery (NCC-1031) isn't classified just what it was doing exactly.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Section 31 agent?
She looked more like a normal Starfleet Captain to me.
https://ucd86275525bc0509a5a3fef9fa1.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/AptnZs62EH_MV5ygcln_hXYr5J6WtqZqLWFDK4l6QF22p9H2AzxVsZapcpnc4HVvbKKtNNj-khvmMf5DUYBI6bO8ARLcpE4DLQoLO9JGo25kzQ_tBk-RCutn2MIeDoqqdxU/file#
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yep - heding their bets and they'll add "Star Trek: Picard" stuff AND the Michelle Yeoh "Section 31" series stuff down the line.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
That might also open them up to create content that requires D7/Donnie-Bridge-interiors.
(Gatekeeping, Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
Just a minor correction but IIRC Meyer directed both TWOK and TUC (and Wikipedia seems to agree with me here), the rest I have no problems with as Gene Roddenberry was a known raging egoist and if you read even half the stuff he wanted to put in Star Trek but was prevent from putting, you're left shaking your head.
It's not hard to assume that reason why Wesley Crusher was such a bad character during season 1 and 2 of TNG is that his creator was one Eugene Wesley Roddenberry, since the problems with Wesley Crusher stem from him being too perfect.
Kirstie Alley did a good job as Saavik, but made the mistake of letting her agent do the salary negotiations for the next movie. Which went badly because her agent had no idea what he was doing. But it was too late to re-write, so they re-cast the role.... and decided after the movie was done that they didn't like the second actress enough to use her in the role again. But they made that decision before they finished writing the script so they simply changed the character to Valeris. If the studio had written Alley's contract to last for more than one movie maybe it'd have been different.
My character Tsin'xing
Honestly I found the Saavik character unrecognizable in ST3 since she didn't look or act the same. It's still a GOOD character, but they'd have been better off making it a new person. But yeah, they didn't really want to make Saavik a villain, but also they decided not to use Saavik in a third movie due to casting issues.
My character Tsin'xing