"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
You do realise criminal cases are decided by jury right? A judge can only sentence someone appropriate for the crime they were found guilty of. That a jury may let a guilty person get away with their crimes is not the Judge's fault, it's either the jury's, or the prosecution's for not proving beyond a reasonable doubt. The Judge has to respect the jury's verdict.
The Judge's reasoning in this case is sound. Tardigrades are real creatures; their appearance cannot be copyright-protected. It would be like Hannah Barbera suing the creators of Paddington because they made a cartoon about a talking bear first! On top of that is the fact that the plots are not similar, characters only resemble one another visually (in which case, TNG featured a red-headed woman first), and don't even have similar personalities or traits.
If this is enough for you to rule CBS copied Anas, then Star Trek shouldn't exist because by those rules Star Trek "copied" Buck Rogers. There's a reason copyright law is as strict as it is, and it's to to stop big corporations monopolising specific themes or genres and allow creators to explore similar concepts in their own artistic direction. If the Judge had ruled in Anas' favour, it would have prevented any other creator from using tardigrades in a sci-fi setting for fear of being sued, regardless how they were used.
I say it's time for Trek to pull a Sherlock and go public domain.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
The evidence clearly shows that Discovery is NOTHING like the guy's game. Season 1 of Discovery takes place in a time of war, which the game does NOT share, the method of travel is totally different from the game, the characters are NOTHING alike, and you can't copyright space as a setting or Tartegrades.
This had nothing to do with Corporate America ruling the nation. This was about two entities dealing with a lawsuit, and the evidence points to only one conclusion. The Lawsuit is baseless and has been dismissed. The reasons behind the lawsuit were too broad and vague, and there are several non-protectable items such as the setting and tartegrades themselves. He cannot claim ownership of those. It would be like saying no one can make a western movie ever again because of the very first one ever made would make it all copyright infringement and thus untouchable.
Its explained in detail in the document rather clearly. There is nothing in Discovery that can be considered infringing on Abdin's game.
Ultimately... CBS can continue to make Discovery, and Abdin can continue to work on his game.
People might say discovery copyied this person but because of the main subject of this lawsuit it doesn't matter if they did or not. Tardigrades are real life creatures and do many of the things seen in the show and possibly in the videogame other then the supernatural qualties in either one. Say for example a show maker or game maker sues another company for using humans as a concept. and the lawsuit is won in court by the person sueing. Well then every show that ever exists every thing that ever uses humans would be well hurt by that. If it was a fictional creature that was created by a ip yes then it might be something that would have been won in the court of law but because its shape and purpose acts like the real life version in many ways no one can claim true ownership of it and that is why the tardigrade game maker lost. Tardigrades are off limits for copyright protection just like cats and dogs. Or anything involving talking cats and dogs same concept applies on that one. So any number of ips can have tardigrade spore drive things as a concept. Doesn't matter because its a real creature and not subject to copyright thus off limits to copyright protections. If it was a fictional creature and not based on something that can't be copyrighted. Then yes that would be subject to copyright. But it isn't. So yeah case closed Discovery is here to stay
The similarities in characters is circumstancial at best. And that is the BEST he has going for it. The way the tardigrade is used in the game is NOTHING like what is shown in the Micheal Burnham show. Ant man and the wasp had these critters that were as big as the characters in it...oh no, they stole from Anas AND CBS. Seriously?!? A judge seeing CBS's production notes should have laughed this case out of courts ages ago. Once again, why they did not do this...not sure. I find it odd...but really...yeah. There really wasn't a case.
If you follow the case events, at one point the judge basically told Abdin to provide proof CBS even knew his game existed. The CORE of his case is the idea CBS copied his work, but how can that be if CBS didn't have access to it? Abdin apparently failed to prove that the CBS writers even knew his game existed.
If we can refrain from the political ranting and corporate demonizing, and allow rational discussion to continue, we can keep the thread going.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I say it's time for Trek to pull a Sherlock and go public domain.
I don’t think you’d like that. You seem to be a TOS fan and you really like that aesthetic. If Star Trek goes public domain all of the TOS look and designs stay at CBS and becomes their version of Star Trek. If WB wanted to do their Star Trek they couldn’t use the ship designs, costume designs, Star fleet delta...they’d have to design their own Trek. The chances of them going Go-Go sixties on the design is slim to none
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The evidence clearly shows that Discovery is NOTHING like the guy's game. Season 1 of Discovery takes place in a time of war, which the game does NOT share, the method of travel is totally different from the game, the characters are NOTHING alike, and you can't copyright space as a setting or Tartegrades.
This had nothing to do with Corporate America ruling the nation. This was about two entities dealing with a lawsuit, and the evidence points to only one conclusion. The Lawsuit is baseless and has been dismissed. The reasons behind the lawsuit were too broad and vague, and there are several non-protectable items such as the setting and tartegrades themselves. He cannot claim ownership of those. It would be like saying no one can make a western movie ever again because of the very first one ever made would make it all copyright infringement and thus untouchable.
Its explained in detail in the document rather clearly. There is nothing in Discovery that can be considered infringing on Abdin's game.
Ultimately... CBS can continue to make Discovery, and Abdin can continue to work on his game.
Can we put this insanity behind us now?
QFT. This is honestly the best possible outcome: the judge ruled the two works are too dissimilar for there to be IP infringement of any kind, meaning both can continue unmolested.
And Abdin's lawyers were working pro bono, so at worst he's just out filing fees.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I say it's time for Trek to pull a Sherlock and go public domain.
I don’t think you’d like that. You seem to be a TOS fan and you really like that aesthetic. If Star Trek goes public domain all of the TOS look and designs stay at CBS and becomes their version of Star Trek. If WB wanted to do their Star Trek they couldn’t use the ship designs, costume designs, Star fleet delta...they’d have to design their own Trek. The chances of them going Go-Go sixties on the design is slim to none
Actually, no. If Star Trek went into the public domain, then anyone could design their version of Star Trek and use whatever ship designs, costume designs, Starfleet insignia, etc that is associated with the Star Trek IP. So different studios could create their own 60s version of Star Trek with the same look as TOS. The public would own Star Trek not a specific corporation. Which is why it is just as likely as Star Trek to go into the public domain as Mickey Mouse go into the public domain.
It is possible that part of Star Trek would not enter the public domain at the same time as Star Trek like Kzinti in TAS since the rights to the Kzinti belong to Larry Niven and STO had to create the Ferasan to get evil cat aliens due to not being able to get permission.
This is incorrect. While Star Trek would fall into public domain CBS/Paramount still have trademarked things that wouldn’t go to public domain. So if WB wanted to do Star Trek they could have a Captain Kirk commanding the Enterprise but anything trademarked by CBS/Paramount (ship designs, costume designs, the delta badge) they could not use. An example of this is Sherlock Holmes. There are two tv shows (BBC’s Sherlock and CBS’s Elementary) and the movie series starring RDJ and yet none of these depictions resemble the Rathbone version of the character.
> @starkaos said: > (Quote) > > Actually, no. If Star Trek went into the public domain, then anyone could design their version of Star Trek and use whatever ship designs, costume designs, Starfleet insignia, etc that is associated with the Star Trek IP. So different studios could create their own 60s version of Star Trek with the same look as TOS. The public would own Star Trek not a specific corporation. Which is why it is just as likely as Star Trek to go into the public domain as Mickey Mouse go into the public domain. > > It is possible that part of Star Trek would not enter the public domain at the same time as Star Trek like Kzinti in TAS since the rights to the Kzinti belong to Larry Niven and STO had to create the Ferasan to get evil cat aliens due to not being able to get permission.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
you know...i've seen the words copyright and trademark for going on 20+ years now...i still have no forking clue what the difference is between them - no one has ever bothered to explain in laymen's terms
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Copyright is the exclusive right, given to the creator of a creative work, to reproduce the work, usually for a limited time. The creative work may be in a literary, artistic or musical form. Copyright is intended to protect the original expression of an idea in the form of a creative work, but not the idea itself.
A trademark is a type of intellectual property consisting of a recognizable sign, design, or expression which identifies products or services of a particular source from those of others, although trademarks used to identify services are usually called service marks.
Copyright example: space Navy traveling space in a ship is an idea. Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica all use this idea. However the expression of that idea (Captain Kirk on his five year mission) can be copyrighted. When an expression of the idea is copyrighted it is protected for a certain period of time. I don’t know off the top of my head.
Trademark is any design companies want to protect. Superman’s \S/, The Disney mouse ears, the Star Fleet Delta are trademarked. These are protected as long as the trademark owners pay the fee.
So if the Star Trek copyrights fall into public domain anything trademarked (Delta, music, scripts, ship designs, costume designs, Alien designs...) won’t go with.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Copyright is the exclusive right, given to the creator of a creative work, to reproduce the work, usually for a limited time. The creative work may be in a literary, artistic or musical form. Copyright is intended to protect the original expression of an idea in the form of a creative work, but not the idea itself.
A trademark is a type of intellectual property consisting of a recognizable sign, design, or expression which identifies products or services of a particular source from those of others, although trademarks used to identify services are usually called service marks.
Copyright example: space Navy traveling space in a ship is an idea. Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica all use this idea. However the expression of that idea (Captain Kirk on his five year mission) can be copyrighted. When an expression of the idea is copyrighted it is protected for a certain period of time. I don’t know off the top of my head.
Trademark is any design companies want to protect. Superman’s \S/, The Disney mouse ears, the Star Fleet Delta are trademarked. These are protected as long as the trademark owners pay the fee.
So if the Star Trek copyrights fall into public domain anything trademarked (Delta, music, scripts, ship designs, costume designs, Alien designs...) won’t go with.
There's also a difference in how protection of copyrights and trademarks work. A trademark-holder has to defend their trademark or they'll lose it. Copyright-holders have the right to determine when their copyright has been breached. In media terms this is usually at the same point as trademark breaches, since most copyrighted media also includes trademarks.
i still don't get it...it sounds a bit like trademarks can only be filed on specific artistic creations and copyright on executions of those trademarks in a specific way
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
i still don't get it...it sounds a bit like trademarks can only be filed on specific artistic creations and copyright on executions of those trademarks in a specific way
Comments
Case closed
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
You do realise criminal cases are decided by jury right? A judge can only sentence someone appropriate for the crime they were found guilty of. That a jury may let a guilty person get away with their crimes is not the Judge's fault, it's either the jury's, or the prosecution's for not proving beyond a reasonable doubt. The Judge has to respect the jury's verdict.
The Judge's reasoning in this case is sound. Tardigrades are real creatures; their appearance cannot be copyright-protected. It would be like Hannah Barbera suing the creators of Paddington because they made a cartoon about a talking bear first! On top of that is the fact that the plots are not similar, characters only resemble one another visually (in which case, TNG featured a red-headed woman first), and don't even have similar personalities or traits.
If this is enough for you to rule CBS copied Anas, then Star Trek shouldn't exist because by those rules Star Trek "copied" Buck Rogers. There's a reason copyright law is as strict as it is, and it's to to stop big corporations monopolising specific themes or genres and allow creators to explore similar concepts in their own artistic direction. If the Judge had ruled in Anas' favour, it would have prevented any other creator from using tardigrades in a sci-fi setting for fear of being sued, regardless how they were used.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
This had nothing to do with Corporate America ruling the nation. This was about two entities dealing with a lawsuit, and the evidence points to only one conclusion. The Lawsuit is baseless and has been dismissed. The reasons behind the lawsuit were too broad and vague, and there are several non-protectable items such as the setting and tartegrades themselves. He cannot claim ownership of those. It would be like saying no one can make a western movie ever again because of the very first one ever made would make it all copyright infringement and thus untouchable.
Its explained in detail in the document rather clearly. There is nothing in Discovery that can be considered infringing on Abdin's game.
Ultimately... CBS can continue to make Discovery, and Abdin can continue to work on his game.
Can we put this insanity behind us now?
(Response to moderated comments removed. - BMR)
My character Tsin'xing
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Ah, Baddmoon - ever the optimist...
We can hope, but I have a feeling "the Beatings will Continue until Morale improves".
I don’t think you’d like that. You seem to be a TOS fan and you really like that aesthetic. If Star Trek goes public domain all of the TOS look and designs stay at CBS and becomes their version of Star Trek. If WB wanted to do their Star Trek they couldn’t use the ship designs, costume designs, Star fleet delta...they’d have to design their own Trek. The chances of them going Go-Go sixties on the design is slim to none
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
QFT. This is honestly the best possible outcome: the judge ruled the two works are too dissimilar for there to be IP infringement of any kind, meaning both can continue unmolested.
And Abdin's lawyers were working pro bono, so at worst he's just out filing fees.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Actually, no. If Star Trek went into the public domain, then anyone could design their version of Star Trek and use whatever ship designs, costume designs, Starfleet insignia, etc that is associated with the Star Trek IP. So different studios could create their own 60s version of Star Trek with the same look as TOS. The public would own Star Trek not a specific corporation. Which is why it is just as likely as Star Trek to go into the public domain as Mickey Mouse go into the public domain.
It is possible that part of Star Trek would not enter the public domain at the same time as Star Trek like Kzinti in TAS since the rights to the Kzinti belong to Larry Niven and STO had to create the Ferasan to get evil cat aliens due to not being able to get permission.
> @starkaos said:
> (Quote)
>
> Actually, no. If Star Trek went into the public domain, then anyone could design their version of Star Trek and use whatever ship designs, costume designs, Starfleet insignia, etc that is associated with the Star Trek IP. So different studios could create their own 60s version of Star Trek with the same look as TOS. The public would own Star Trek not a specific corporation. Which is why it is just as likely as Star Trek to go into the public domain as Mickey Mouse go into the public domain.
>
> It is possible that part of Star Trek would not enter the public domain at the same time as Star Trek like Kzinti in TAS since the rights to the Kzinti belong to Larry Niven and STO had to create the Ferasan to get evil cat aliens due to not being able to get permission.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
A trademark is a type of intellectual property consisting of a recognizable sign, design, or expression which identifies products or services of a particular source from those of others, although trademarks used to identify services are usually called service marks.
Copyright example: space Navy traveling space in a ship is an idea. Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica all use this idea. However the expression of that idea (Captain Kirk on his five year mission) can be copyrighted. When an expression of the idea is copyrighted it is protected for a certain period of time. I don’t know off the top of my head.
Trademark is any design companies want to protect. Superman’s \S/, The Disney mouse ears, the Star Fleet Delta are trademarked. These are protected as long as the trademark owners pay the fee.
So if the Star Trek copyrights fall into public domain anything trademarked (Delta, music, scripts, ship designs, costume designs, Alien designs...) won’t go with.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There's also a difference in how protection of copyrights and trademarks work. A trademark-holder has to defend their trademark or they'll lose it. Copyright-holders have the right to determine when their copyright has been breached. In media terms this is usually at the same point as trademark breaches, since most copyrighted media also includes trademarks.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That might help.
My character Tsin'xing