Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics
Probably because he believes or fears - like I do - that these mechanics is what keeps this game alive. The game wasn't doing as well under a subscription - and I mean that from a player perspective. There was a lot less content, a lot less updates, and the quality was lower. So I figure with the combination of C-Store ships and lockbox/promo ships, they found something that kept this game thriving. If that's the cost of having a Star Trek MMO where I can play space barbie and play new missions occasionally, then I am okay with the price. I fully accept that this game is a luxury I indulge him, and as luxury articles go, they can be expensive.
Servers are quite cheap to run, most money is spent on paychecks and goes directly into their wallets. If they really wanted to, they could monetize the game in ways that still make it profitable, but they don't want to look into better methods of monetization they want the easy exploitative method that makes fat stacks for no effort.
There are plenty of games that don't have subscription models or lootboxes that can manage to stay profitable. The issue is cryptic is pretty set in stone in their ways and some people around here like to say "Cryptic has their statistics they know exactly what to do to make the most money" when no they probably don't. For instance, I have a Burger King around my house and they sell large Fountain Drinks around 2 dollars a pop and they're not that big. But then next door to it, my local gas station sells 44 oz fountain drinks, even bigger than BK's for 86 cents a pop, and they get far faaaar more business than burger king. Sometimes people don't change the prices because its just... always worked. Cryptic sells T6 ships for 30 dollars each, half the price of a new video game. Would they sell more T6 ships if they lowered the price to 20 dollars? Probably. Do they know that? Considering their virtually constant Z store sales, I think yes they actually do know that they need to lower their prices but they simply choose not to. Why? Either they're set in their ways and just won't change it because its how its always been done since they started doing it, or they think having constant sales instead of permanently lowering the price works better.
The c-store ship sales model IMO does the following things. It brings in money that they otherwise wouldn't from players that are unwilling to take a chance on keys and promo packs. It also brings in additional revenue from players that do spend money on keys and promo packs. In both cases it's supplementary revenue. As once you purchase a particular c-store ship that's it. You can't repurchase it again and that revenue potential is dead forever. Keys and promo packs are permanent revenue streams. For c-store ships to be a consistent primary source of revenue (meaning no keys and promo packs) all ships would have to have been character unlocks only or maybe even single purchases without being reclaimable. I don't know what the pricing would be but I doubt people around here would be ok with all c-store ships not being account unlocks and/or not being reclaimable at the benefit of no longer having keys and promo packs. I'm guessing that the pricing would be a major determiner. Though all this is just pointless as we're WAY passed the point of no return on this meaning that the system as it is will stay in place. Nothing will change.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
At this point the only extremely slim chance of a connie appearing in the C-Store is if they take a page out of SWTOR's book and throw one of the existing ones on there for a limited time (a day or maybe a week) at a higher than usual price with the single-character part still intact.
I do not think this will ever happen, however it IS an option that they have and Cryptic has basically confirmed at this point that a standard C-Store offering will never happen for any variation of the Constitution class.[/quote
Actually along with the T1 connie there is a variant in the C-Store, The Exeter is a connie variant and it says so in the description. https://sto.gamepedia.com/Constitution-class_Cruiser You can check that link and site also or check the store yourself.
Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics
Probably because he believes or fears - like I do - that these mechanics is what keeps this game alive. The game wasn't doing as well under a subscription - and I mean that from a player perspective. There was a lot less content, a lot less updates, and the quality was lower. So I figure with the combination of C-Store ships and lockbox/promo ships, they found something that kept this game thriving. If that's the cost of having a Star Trek MMO where I can play space barbie and play new missions occasionally, then I am okay with the price. I fully accept that this game is a luxury I indulge him, and as luxury articles go, they can be expensive.
Servers are quite cheap to run, most money is spent on paychecks and goes directly into their wallets. If they really wanted to, they could monetize the game in ways that still make it profitable, but they don't want to look into better methods of monetization they want the easy exploitative method that makes fat stacks for no effort.
There are plenty of games that don't have subscription models or lootboxes that can manage to stay profitable. The issue is cryptic is pretty set in stone in their ways and some people around here like to say "Cryptic has their statistics they know exactly what to do to make the most money" when no they probably don't. For instance, I have a Burger King around my house and they sell large Fountain Drinks around 2 dollars a pop and they're not that big. But then next door to it, my local gas station sells 44 oz fountain drinks, even bigger than BK's for 86 cents a pop, and they get far faaaar more business than burger king. Sometimes people don't change the prices because its just... always worked. Cryptic sells T6 ships for 30 dollars each, half the price of a new video game. Would they sell more T6 ships if they lowered the price to 20 dollars? Probably. Do they know that? Considering their virtually constant Z store sales, I think yes they actually do know that they need to lower their prices but they simply choose not to. Why? Either they're set in their ways and just won't change it because its how its always been done since they started doing it, or they think having constant sales instead of permanently lowering the price works better.
But obviously, Burger King's profit margin on those fountain drinks is presumably higher, and they don't know anything about what it costs the gas station to offer it (and what customers it brings them that purchase other stuff.)
However, Cryptic definitely has access to a lot more data.
They sell ships in the C-Store (sometimes solo, sometimes in packs), put them in lockboxes, they put them in promotions, they put them in events, and sometimes even as free giveaways. They can at least theoretically see what impact these decisions have.
Some say that the Disconnie is particularly powerful, but it should be noticed that there ships from all of these sources have been considered powerful, or came with powerful consoles or gear. Ships like the Arbiter or recently the Gagarin are highly recommended.
They also have hero ships both in the C-Store and in lockboxes, promotions or in the Lobi Store. So they have some data to compare.
You can speculate that they don't use the data they should have, but... they definitely have a chance to figure it out quite well, they don't have to just guess. Now, maybe they just guess and are totally wrong - but this topic is not really that new and came up before, I am not sure why anyone would believe this time is the one time they finally see reason and realize "the truth". Most likely, people are engaging in wishful thinking, and Cryptic is far closer to the truth then they are. Alternatively, maybe Cryptic does whatever it wants without good reason.
The game will turn 10 next year, and there are plenty of online games that failed in that time.
Has anyone considered that maybe, just maybe, Cryptic actually knows what it's doing, and why it's doing it?
I guess the people that say: "There should be a law against it" are considering that option. (And maybe they aren't wrong. But maybe they are and only say that because they are haggling over the prize of their luxury item.)
Yes I'm sure the stats on the Disconnie's weapons should just be ignored because at one point in time another ship was considered the most powerful in the game. Thank you for nullifying my opinion because time moves forward and new stuff comes out. Also thank you for ignoring my whole point about ships in the Z Store. The whole point about how they are constantly running sales, so they know that people really don't like buying things for full price, but they are refusing to lower the full price permanently for some reason. And hey, games can not know what they're doing and still be very successful. Star Wars galaxies was around for a surprisingly long amount of time.
And hey what a wonderful way to dismiss other people's opinions. "They're just entitled because they didn't get the shiny thing, their opinion doesn't matter."
At this point the only extremely slim chance of a connie appearing in the C-Store is if they take a page out of SWTOR's book and throw one of the existing ones on there for a limited time (a day or maybe a week) at a higher than usual price with the single-character part still intact.
I do not think this will ever happen, however it IS an option that they have and Cryptic has basically confirmed at this point that a standard C-Store offering will never happen for any variation of the Constitution class.
Actually along with the T1 connie there is a variant in the C-Store, The Exeter is a connie variant and it says so in the description. https://sto.gamepedia.com/Constitution-class_Cruiser You can check that link and site also or check the store yourself.
I was obviously talking about a T6 Connie ...
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
People have been crying DOOOM! since at least Delta Rising back in 2014. Cryptic seems to know more about running their business than the armchair Doomsayers.
This game's been "Dooooooomed" as long as I've been playing, and that was right before F2P. Hell... a few years ago we actually had the "DOOOOOOOM" thread where we just made fun of the idea in general. Was pretty funny too. Was the only sanctioned DOOM thread on the forums for a long time because of it.
I get that Cryptic makes their money off the loot boxes. I also don't say that overall they've been unfair. It's actually a very fairly priced game That said I question the decision to put the Discoprise into the R&D lockbox. Why? The R&D lockbox already has the Temporal Light Cruiser in it. Why not put it in a different gamble box, preferably one that people can constantly be throwing money at them to try and get it and not just once a quarter. Also why single out the T6 Connie variations fo be ONLY in the various gamble boxes? (And by the way I have an MBA from one ot the top business schools in the country, so Yea, I am questioning their BUSINESS judgment here. I'm not buying the story they have this all computed out and they know what they are doing and we plebes shouldn't question our masters.) Why don't they have one version of the Connie in the Zen store, one in the R&D loot box, and one in a lock box? Same with versions of the Galaxy, Sovereign, Defiant and Intrepid? People pay hundreds in other games for guns with a different paint job. Fine, put something like that in the R&D box.
Its possible that it wasn't Cryptic's idea. They still have to answer to CBS, the IP holder. For a LOOOONG time Cryptic knew that an endgame Connie would be a moneymaker. People WANTED an endgame Connie. However CBS said "No" for quite a while.
The first endgame Connie we got, wasn't even Prime Universe. It was the Kelvin Connie after they managed to get something with Paramount, who owns the Kelvin Timeline. After that we got the Temporal Connie. However its pretty much accepted that CBS is the reason it is Promo. They don't want everyone flying around in Connies. We may be faced with the same situation with the Discovery Connie and D7.
Would people TRIBBLE their pants if the ship had shown up on the C-Store at $250? Would more Discoprises have entered the game that way? Yes, the supply is infinite, but the price is over 8x the normal T6 ship? Would enough people actually buy it?
Could have just added them to the Discovery Operations Pack. Wouldn't be the first time a ship was added to a pack. Back when Delta Rising came out and they announced the Delta Pack, they didn't have the Dauntless yet. Then they added the Dauntless into the pack later.
The whole point about how they are constantly running sales, so they know that people really don't like buying things for full price, but they are refusing to lower the full price permanently for some reason.
All kinds of shops have all kinds of sales all of the time, this is nothing specific of Cryptic. A markdown of 20% doesn't have to be a deal, it could just be normal price now, or even still pretty expensive. But people will jump if they just read "discount" or "sale". Standard psychology. Think black friday sales.
Cryptic will of course know how many ships they are selling at "regular" price and how many at "discount" price. I'd guess that most are bound to be sold at discount because it comes around regularily enough so that people can easily wait for the next opportunity, it's just a guess of course. However, permanently reducing the price may just not have the same effect because then it wouldn't be a perceived bargain anymore.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
> @xyquarze said: > > All kinds of shops have all kinds of sales all of the time, this is nothing specific of Cryptic. A markdown of 20% doesn't have to be a deal, it could just be normal price now, or even still pretty expensive. But people will jump if they just read "discount" or "sale". Standard psychology. Think black friday sales. > > Cryptic will of course know how many ships they are selling at "regular" price and how many at "discount" price. I'd guess that most are bound to be sold at discount because it comes around regularily enough so that people can easily wait for the next opportunity, it's just a guess of course. However, permanently reducing the price may just not have the same effect because then it wouldn't be a perceived bargain anymore.
This can backfire, though. In Germany, there was a chain of hardware stores which famously offered '20% off of everything (except pet food)' - this very promotional sentence became engraved in pop culture even today. The problem was people would stop buying and wait for the next sale, which effectively lead to the chain being forced to permanently lower prices. They eventually went bankrupt because of it.
Just an anecdote which came to my mind.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's not that black and white, I've never understood people penitent for trying narrow down a situation to the most simplistic situation possible. The heads already accept most people don't gamble that much, they know that majority of the money coming into the game is from a few wealthy individuals and addicted gamblers.
/color]
Since you know exact figures, how many is a "few" wealthy individuals and how many "addicted gamblers" are there?
None of this is new, and perfect world's marketing as well as their data partners know why and how it works. Which is why the T6 disco connie is in promo r&d box and not in a lockbox or the c-store.
While I dont like what they did with the ships the "goes to your wallets" and etc doesnt appeal to us cause most of us are grown men and not kids.
Gentlemen we get paid when we work too, why cryptic employees shouldnt and we should comment like "going to their wallets"? Of course the payroll is a significant or the highest cost in most multi-people businesses. To us it may be our fun but to them are also there job. Do we work for free too in our jobs?
That aside I think management misjudged and could have got same/close to same money making a pack with both of them and charge them more(like twice) than usual ships. The advantage that also got is the selling of them doesnt extend for the few days an R&D event usually lasts
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Actually it's not a fairly priced game, its a completely free game, with the option to purchase lock boxes for various vanity products.
Think of it this way - Burger King decides to give away all its Burgers for free - but it charges for a (random) pack of condiments such as ketchup ect. Imagine a customer getting something completely free, and then complaining about the price of an optional extra. It the epitome of looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Cryptic keeps the game running completely free, with some pretty phenomenal voice talent from various Trek actors (who don't come cheap, I can tell you), and does this via offering optional extra's - you don't even have to open a lockbox for a T6 ship.
I'm confused why on earth people bring this subject up on a regular basis.
Actually it's not a fairly priced game, its a completely free game, with the option to purchase lock boxes for various vanity products.
Think of it this way - Burger King decides to give away all its Burgers for free - but it charges for a (random) pack of condiments such as ketchup ect. Imagine a customer getting something completely free, and then complaining about the price of an optional extra. It the epitome of looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Cryptic keeps the game running completely free, with some pretty phenomenal voice talent from various Trek actors (who don't come cheap, I can tell you), and does this via offering optional extra's - you don't even have to open a lockbox for a T6 ship.
I'm confused why on earth people bring this subject up on a regular basis.
Ah yes, the good ol its free so you can't criticize it in any way argument. I mean the devs could charge us to slow bridge officers on our ships period. Or charge us for having an inventory. Or charge us if we fly our ships too long, but if they did those things it would be okay because the game is "free". Yes thank you for contributing very little to the discussion other than saying no one is allowed to complain because you said so.
Ah yes, the good ol its free so you can't criticize it in any way argument. I mean the devs could charge us to slow bridge officers on our ships period. Or charge us for having an inventory. Or charge us if we fly our ships too long, but if they did those things it would be okay because the game is "free". Yes thank you for contributing very little to the discussion other than saying no one is allowed to complain because you said so.
You can complain for as loud, and for as long as you wish. However, your rebuttal has little (or nothing) to do with what I actually wrote, and at the end of the day, you are still looking a gift horse in the mouth, and complaining that the 'Space Barbie' vanity items that you covet are not set at a price that 'you' deem acceptable.
Most of your post came across as random word salad to be honest ('charge us if we fly our ships too long' ??), but I have done my best to respond.
Ah yes, the good ol its free so you can't criticize it in any way argument. I mean the devs could charge us to slow bridge officers on our ships period. Or charge us for having an inventory. Or charge us if we fly our ships too long, but if they did those things it would be okay because the game is "free". Yes thank you for contributing very little to the discussion other than saying no one is allowed to complain because you said so.
You can complain for as loud, and for as long as you wish. However, your rebuttal has little (or nothing) to do with what I actually wrote, and at the end of the day, you are still looking a gift horse in the mouth, and complaining that the 'Space Barbie' vanity items that you covet are not set at a price that 'you' deem acceptable.
Most of your post came across as random word salad to be honest ('charge us if we fly our ships too long' ??), but I have done my best to respond.
My point is that you're claiming if we complain at all we're looking a gift horse in the mouth, so therefore you feel we have no right to complain at all, then I offered up examples of even worse ways they could monetize the game and applied your logic that as long as the game remained free, they can make it as bad as they want and we would still be looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Ah yes, the good ol its free so you can't criticize it in any way argument. I mean the devs could charge us to slow bridge officers on our ships period. Or charge us for having an inventory. Or charge us if we fly our ships too long, but if they did those things it would be okay because the game is "free". Yes thank you for contributing very little to the discussion other than saying no one is allowed to complain because you said so.
You can complain for as loud, and for as long as you wish. However, your rebuttal has little (or nothing) to do with what I actually wrote, and at the end of the day, you are still looking a gift horse in the mouth, and complaining that the 'Space Barbie' vanity items that you covet are not set at a price that 'you' deem acceptable.
Most of your post came across as random word salad to be honest ('charge us if we fly our ships too long' ??), but I have done my best to respond.
My point is that you're claiming if we complain at all we're looking a gift horse in the mouth, so therefore you feel we have no right to complain at all, then I offered up examples of even worse ways they could monetize the game and applied your logic that as long as the game remained free, they can make it as bad as they want and we would still be looking a gift horse in the mouth.
At no point did I state that you (or anybody) had no right to complain, if you inferred that from what I wrote, then that is an erroneous judgement that you came up with yourself.
'My logic' in no way inferred that 'they' could 'slow down our bridge officers' or 'charge us if we fly our ships too long' or, charge us for having an inventory'. These were all invented by yourself and are not akin to the actual 'life' example of:
The entire game is free (including expansions) - and includes every piece of equipment that you require in order to take part and 'complete' every part of the game.
Your straw man argument as illustrated above is irrelevant because it is not based on any type of current real world actions /monetization undertaken by Cryptic.
Ah yes, the good ol its free so you can't criticize it in any way argument. I mean the devs could charge us to slow bridge officers on our ships period. Or charge us for having an inventory. Or charge us if we fly our ships too long, but if they did those things it would be okay because the game is "free". Yes thank you for contributing very little to the discussion other than saying no one is allowed to complain because you said so.
You can complain for as loud, and for as long as you wish. However, your rebuttal has little (or nothing) to do with what I actually wrote, and at the end of the day, you are still looking a gift horse in the mouth, and complaining that the 'Space Barbie' vanity items that you covet are not set at a price that 'you' deem acceptable.
Most of your post came across as random word salad to be honest ('charge us if we fly our ships too long' ??), but I have done my best to respond.
My point is that you're claiming if we complain at all we're looking a gift horse in the mouth, so therefore you feel we have no right to complain at all, then I offered up examples of even worse ways they could monetize the game and applied your logic that as long as the game remained free, they can make it as bad as they want and we would still be looking a gift horse in the mouth.
At no point did I state that you (or anybody) had no right to complain, if you inferred that from what I wrote, then that is an erroneous judgement that you came up with yourself.
'My logic' in no way inferred that 'they' could 'slow down our bridge officers' or 'charge us if we fly our ships too long' or, charge us for having an inventory'. These were all invented by yourself and are not akin to the actual 'life' example of:
The entire game is free (including expansions) - and includes every piece of equipment that you require in order to take part and 'complete' every part of the game.
Your straw man argument as illustrated above is irrelevant because it is not based on any type of current real world actions /monetization undertaken by Cryptic.
Its not a straw man argument. I gave examples of ways things could be worse and explained how your "gift horse" argument is flawed. Instead you claim my argument is a straw man because you can't actually deny the validity of it properly. And the whole "gift horse" thing is all about not complaining because its a good thing, and I explained why that doesn't work here and why the game should still be open to criticism despite being free. My argument is against your point currently, not cryptic, so trying to deflect my criticism of you specifically like that is just, wrong.
Its not a straw man argument. I gave examples of ways things could be worse and explained how your "gift horse" argument is flawed. Instead you claim my argument is a straw man because you can't actually deny the validity of it properly. And the whole "gift horse" thing is all about not complaining because its a good thing, and I explained why that doesn't work here and why the game should still be open to criticism despite being free. My argument is against your point currently, not cryptic, so trying to deflect my criticism of you specifically like that is just, wrong.
You put forth a (false/imagined] rebuttal involving the hypothetical actions that Cryptic (could) take in order to monetise the game. All of them where far fetched and unlikely. Like it or not, your rebuttal was a 'straw man argument'. I can see we shall not have a meeting of minds on the subject, so I shall refrain from responding to you further, and wish you the best.
Its not a straw man argument. I gave examples of ways things could be worse and explained how your "gift horse" argument is flawed. Instead you claim my argument is a straw man because you can't actually deny the validity of it properly. And the whole "gift horse" thing is all about not complaining because its a good thing, and I explained why that doesn't work here and why the game should still be open to criticism despite being free. My argument is against your point currently, not cryptic, so trying to deflect my criticism of you specifically like that is just, wrong.
You put forth a (false/imagined] rebuttal involving the hypothetical actions that Cryptic (could) take in order to monetise the game. All of them where far fetched and unlikely. Like it or not, your rebuttal was a 'straw man argument'. I can see we shall not have a meeting of minds on the subject, so I shall refrain from responding to you further, and wish you the best.
I put forth an example reubttal, applying your argument towards it to show that your argument was flawed. Yes they were far fetched and unlikely things, that was the point. That your argument was poor and wouldn't defend such actions. Thank you for showing that your argument truly has no basis and that you really agree with my point and would rather just back off than face the truth.
What that store needed to do was raise everything 20% and than have a 20% off everything sale. That's what all the stores in the states do anyways.
A tried and tested method. However, it is at least technically illegal in Germany - store prices have to have had a certain "shelf life" before they're allowed to be used as comparison. For all it's worth with all the possible circumventions.
But yeah, in the online world it's a common tactic in many F2P games I encountered. You get offered the infinity+1 sword of awesome for only $99.99 - a whopping 85% discount! Except that there is no possible way to get said item outside of these sales for the presumed regular price, so the so called discount doesn't have any merits at all.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
The 'MyPillow' company lost its Better Business certification a few years ago because they were accused of not having a regular price. The pillows were only sold (on TV and Website) with the 'buy one get one free' paradigm.
Here it is very difficult to pull that raise prices then have a 20% off sale. We know what the price point is on everything in the C-Store. We know about the Ship discount on the Weekend release. If things fall out of this norm people get riled up and take to the Forums (see Discovery Operation Pack as first announced).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Too bad that didn't apply to the Dilitium MACO, TWoK, etc. Outfits.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
Yes I'm sure the stats on the Disconnie's weapons should just be ignored because at one point in time another ship was considered the most powerful in the game. Thank you for nullifying my opinion because time moves forward and new stuff comes out. Also thank you for ignoring my whole point about ships in the Z Store. The whole point about how they are constantly running sales, so they know that people really don't like buying things for full price, but they are refusing to lower the full price permanently for some reason. And hey, games can not know what they're doing and still be very successful. Star Wars galaxies was around for a surprisingly long amount of time.
And hey what a wonderful way to dismiss other people's opinions. "They're just entitled because they didn't get the shiny thing, their opinion doesn't matter."
I was obviously talking about a T6 Connie ...
This game's been "Dooooooomed" as long as I've been playing, and that was right before F2P. Hell... a few years ago we actually had the "DOOOOOOOM" thread where we just made fun of the idea in general. Was pretty funny too. Was the only sanctioned DOOM thread on the forums for a long time because of it.
Its possible that it wasn't Cryptic's idea. They still have to answer to CBS, the IP holder. For a LOOOONG time Cryptic knew that an endgame Connie would be a moneymaker. People WANTED an endgame Connie. However CBS said "No" for quite a while.
The first endgame Connie we got, wasn't even Prime Universe. It was the Kelvin Connie after they managed to get something with Paramount, who owns the Kelvin Timeline. After that we got the Temporal Connie. However its pretty much accepted that CBS is the reason it is Promo. They don't want everyone flying around in Connies. We may be faced with the same situation with the Discovery Connie and D7.
Could have just added them to the Discovery Operations Pack. Wouldn't be the first time a ship was added to a pack. Back when Delta Rising came out and they announced the Delta Pack, they didn't have the Dauntless yet. Then they added the Dauntless into the pack later.
All kinds of shops have all kinds of sales all of the time, this is nothing specific of Cryptic. A markdown of 20% doesn't have to be a deal, it could just be normal price now, or even still pretty expensive. But people will jump if they just read "discount" or "sale". Standard psychology. Think black friday sales.
Cryptic will of course know how many ships they are selling at "regular" price and how many at "discount" price. I'd guess that most are bound to be sold at discount because it comes around regularily enough so that people can easily wait for the next opportunity, it's just a guess of course. However, permanently reducing the price may just not have the same effect because then it wouldn't be a perceived bargain anymore.
>
> All kinds of shops have all kinds of sales all of the time, this is nothing specific of Cryptic. A markdown of 20% doesn't have to be a deal, it could just be normal price now, or even still pretty expensive. But people will jump if they just read "discount" or "sale". Standard psychology. Think black friday sales.
>
> Cryptic will of course know how many ships they are selling at "regular" price and how many at "discount" price. I'd guess that most are bound to be sold at discount because it comes around regularily enough so that people can easily wait for the next opportunity, it's just a guess of course. However, permanently reducing the price may just not have the same effect because then it wouldn't be a perceived bargain anymore.
This can backfire, though. In Germany, there was a chain of hardware stores which famously offered '20% off of everything (except pet food)' - this very promotional sentence became engraved in pop culture even today. The problem was people would stop buying and wait for the next sale, which effectively lead to the chain being forced to permanently lower prices. They eventually went bankrupt because of it.
Just an anecdote which came to my mind.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
When did I say I know that ? I just know the FTP market, but I will show you a small selection of the relevant data on ftp games.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/01/why-its-scary-when-0-15-mobile-gamers-bring-in-50-of-the-revenue/#684e837b4065
https://kotaku.com/who-are-the-whales-driving-free-to-play-gaming-youd-1197333118
None of this is new, and perfect world's marketing as well as their data partners know why and how it works. Which is why the T6 disco connie is in promo r&d box and not in a lockbox or the c-store.
Gentlemen we get paid when we work too, why cryptic employees shouldnt and we should comment like "going to their wallets"? Of course the payroll is a significant or the highest cost in most multi-people businesses. To us it may be our fun but to them are also there job. Do we work for free too in our jobs?
That aside I think management misjudged and could have got same/close to same money making a pack with both of them and charge them more(like twice) than usual ships. The advantage that also got is the selling of them doesnt extend for the few days an R&D event usually lasts
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Actually it's not a fairly priced game, its a completely free game, with the option to purchase lock boxes for various vanity products.
Think of it this way - Burger King decides to give away all its Burgers for free - but it charges for a (random) pack of condiments such as ketchup ect. Imagine a customer getting something completely free, and then complaining about the price of an optional extra. It the epitome of looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Cryptic keeps the game running completely free, with some pretty phenomenal voice talent from various Trek actors (who don't come cheap, I can tell you), and does this via offering optional extra's - you don't even have to open a lockbox for a T6 ship.
I'm confused why on earth people bring this subject up on a regular basis.
Ah yes, the good ol its free so you can't criticize it in any way argument. I mean the devs could charge us to slow bridge officers on our ships period. Or charge us for having an inventory. Or charge us if we fly our ships too long, but if they did those things it would be okay because the game is "free". Yes thank you for contributing very little to the discussion other than saying no one is allowed to complain because you said so.
You can complain for as loud, and for as long as you wish. However, your rebuttal has little (or nothing) to do with what I actually wrote, and at the end of the day, you are still looking a gift horse in the mouth, and complaining that the 'Space Barbie' vanity items that you covet are not set at a price that 'you' deem acceptable.
Most of your post came across as random word salad to be honest ('charge us if we fly our ships too long' ??), but I have done my best to respond.
My point is that you're claiming if we complain at all we're looking a gift horse in the mouth, so therefore you feel we have no right to complain at all, then I offered up examples of even worse ways they could monetize the game and applied your logic that as long as the game remained free, they can make it as bad as they want and we would still be looking a gift horse in the mouth.
At no point did I state that you (or anybody) had no right to complain, if you inferred that from what I wrote, then that is an erroneous judgement that you came up with yourself.
'My logic' in no way inferred that 'they' could 'slow down our bridge officers' or 'charge us if we fly our ships too long' or, charge us for having an inventory'. These were all invented by yourself and are not akin to the actual 'life' example of:
The entire game is free (including expansions) - and includes every piece of equipment that you require in order to take part and 'complete' every part of the game.
Your straw man argument as illustrated above is irrelevant because it is not based on any type of current real world actions /monetization undertaken by Cryptic.
Its not a straw man argument. I gave examples of ways things could be worse and explained how your "gift horse" argument is flawed. Instead you claim my argument is a straw man because you can't actually deny the validity of it properly. And the whole "gift horse" thing is all about not complaining because its a good thing, and I explained why that doesn't work here and why the game should still be open to criticism despite being free. My argument is against your point currently, not cryptic, so trying to deflect my criticism of you specifically like that is just, wrong.
You put forth a (false/imagined] rebuttal involving the hypothetical actions that Cryptic (could) take in order to monetise the game. All of them where far fetched and unlikely. Like it or not, your rebuttal was a 'straw man argument'. I can see we shall not have a meeting of minds on the subject, so I shall refrain from responding to you further, and wish you the best.
I put forth an example reubttal, applying your argument towards it to show that your argument was flawed. Yes they were far fetched and unlikely things, that was the point. That your argument was poor and wouldn't defend such actions. Thank you for showing that your argument truly has no basis and that you really agree with my point and would rather just back off than face the truth.
A tried and tested method. However, it is at least technically illegal in Germany - store prices have to have had a certain "shelf life" before they're allowed to be used as comparison. For all it's worth with all the possible circumventions.
But yeah, in the online world it's a common tactic in many F2P games I encountered. You get offered the infinity+1 sword of awesome for only $99.99 - a whopping 85% discount! Except that there is no possible way to get said item outside of these sales for the presumed regular price, so the so called discount doesn't have any merits at all.
Here it is very difficult to pull that raise prices then have a 20% off sale. We know what the price point is on everything in the C-Store. We know about the Ship discount on the Weekend release. If things fall out of this norm people get riled up and take to the Forums (see Discovery Operation Pack as first announced).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Sometimes it is de facto the normal price in games because the actual normal price is insane.
My character Tsin'xing
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'