My idea for a compromise would be: players accept that they can't have everything their way, the devs accept that some players won't pay for lockboxes, everybody knows where they're at, we can live happily ever after.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
My idea for a compromise would be: players accept that they can't have everything their way, the devs accept that some players won't pay for lockboxes, everybody knows where they're at, we can live happily ever after.
It's not that black and white, I've never understood people penitent for trying narrow down a situation to the most simplistic situation possible. The heads already accept most people don't gamble that much, they know that majority of the money coming into the game is from a few wealthy individuals and addicted gamblers.
OR the players can show some personal responsibility and not spend the rent check on boxes. I decided I'll buy 1K zen if i don't get the ship in 4 boxes oh well
My idea for a compromise would be: players accept that they can't have everything their way, the devs accept that some players won't pay for lockboxes, everybody knows where they're at, we can live happily ever after.
It's not that black and white, I've never understood people penitent for trying narrow down a situation to the most simplistic situation possible. The heads already accept most people don't gamble that much, they know that majority of the money coming into the game is from a few wealthy individuals and addicted gamblers.
I am neither wealthy, and I don't gamble....yet I have a massive ship list. I put in what I can reasonably afford to. If I don't win a ship, I don't come complaining on the forum. Why? Because I understand the odds, and I understand what I might get, and I understand I've got a game for free that I can access all of the playable content without having to fork out repeatedly for it. Yes, I eventually bought the LTS, because I want to support the game, and that is what everyone should be thinking when they purchase anything in STO. Lockboxes and keys in STO do not fit the legal definition of gambling, and it's extremely likely they will not be affected by the current legislation because Cryptic give you the option to reasonably acquire them for nothing. I stress 'reasonably' because it is that easy to acquire them. If I really want a ship, I will grind it out and pray to RNGesus.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
My idea for a compromise would be: players accept that they can't have everything their way, the devs accept that some players won't pay for lockboxes, everybody knows where they're at, we can live happily ever after.
It's not that black and white, I've never understood people penitent for trying narrow down a situation to the most simplistic situation possible. The heads already accept most people don't gamble that much, they know that majority of the money coming into the game is from a few wealthy individuals and addicted gamblers.
I am neither wealthy, and I don't gamble....yet I have a massive ship list. I put in what I can reasonably afford to. If I don't win a ship, I don't come complaining on the forum. Why? Because I understand the odds, and I understand what I might get, and I understand I've got a game for free that I can access all of the playable content without having to fork out repeatedly for it. Yes, I eventually bought the LTS, because I want to support the game, and that is what everyone should be thinking when they purchase anything in STO. Lockboxes and keys in STO do not fit the legal definition of gambling, and it's extremely likely they will not be affected by the current legislation because Cryptic give you the option to reasonably acquire them for nothing. I stress 'reasonably' because it is that easy to acquire them. If I really want a ship, I will grind it out and pray to RNGesus.
Honestly just because you can work to acquire currency to gamble does not mean its not gambling. Just because something is not legally recognized in the US as gambling does not make it not gambling. Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics. Hmmm lets look at reasonably in mathematical sense 39 days of grinding dilithium for 4 packs that have a 1% chance. In a event that lasts 21 days. You'll be lucky if you get two boxs giving you statistically minuet chance at it.
Sorry but they intentionally put these out of the reach of people, as a way of enticing spending. Even if you are being responsible there are many who arn't, some whom are psychologically addicted. It's a unethical business practice, that is doing less to benefit the game and the developers,as it is tarnishing it's name. In the end we don't know if the US government is going to get involved but other countries already have.
People in the US and some abroad have a lack of education on the topic of addiction. Also sounds like your not the person perfect world likes in it's system they much prefer the high spenders, that being the wealthy or gamblers.
Honestly just because you can work to acquire currency to gamble does not mean its not gambling. Just because something is not legally recognized in the US as gambling does not make it not gambling. Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics. Hmmm lets look at reasonably in mathematical sense 39 days of grinding dilithium for 4 packs that have a 1% chance. In a event that lasts 21 days. You'll be lucky if you get two boxs giving you statistically minuet chance at it.
Sorry but they intentionally put these out of the reach of people, as a way of enticing spending. Even if you are being responsible there are many who arn't, some whom are psychologically addicted. It's a unethical business practice, that is doing less to benefit the game and the developers,as it is tarnishing it's name. In the end we don't know if the US government is going to get involved but other countries already have.
People in the US and some abroad have a lack of education on the topic of addiction. Also sounds like your not the person perfect world likes in it's system they much prefer the high spenders, that being the wealthy or gamblers.
Yes, loot boxes along with Magic the Gathering and sports cards packs are gambling according to the English definition but not the (USA) legal definition for regulation. Even that new "think of the children" bill doesn't describe them as gambling in the legal sense.
However, in STO you can get lock box, lobi, pack ships without gambling by buying them from the Exchange. Are they cheap? No. Are they gambling when purchased that way? No.
Can almost anyone afford them? Yes, if you save up the $15 a month you are not paying Cryptic for a MMO subscription. $180 a year + $40 for expansions buys you a couple of lock box ships or 4+ lobi ships. Save it up longer and you have a Connie.
Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics
Probably because he believes or fears - like I do - that these mechanics is what keeps this game alive. The game wasn't doing as well under a subscription - and I mean that from a player perspective. There was a lot less content, a lot less updates, and the quality was lower. So I figure with the combination of C-Store ships and lockbox/promo ships, they found something that kept this game thriving. If that's the cost of having a Star Trek MMO where I can play space barbie and play new missions occasionally, then I am okay with the price. I fully accept that this game is a luxury I indulge him, and as luxury articles go, they can be expensive.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Can almost anyone afford them? Yes, if you save up the $15 a month you are not paying Cryptic for a MMO subscription. $180 a year + $40 for expansions buys you a couple of lock box ships or 4+ lobi ships. Save it up longer and you have a Connie.
In regards to your last sentence, you can actually get one now for about a little less than $200. To explain,
1) if you buy $200 worth of zen you get a 3k zen bonus, so 23,000 zen.
2) disco connies are currently selling for around 1.45bil. promo packs are currently selling for around 14mil.
3) 1.45bil / 14mil = 104 (the number of individual promo packs you need to sell on the exchange for 14mil each)
4) you can currently get 4 promo packs for 800 zen, and 104 / 4 = 26 (the number of 4 packs needed).
5) 26 x 800 = 20,800 = the amount of zen needed to buy 26 (4)pack promo packs.
So yes, at the end of the day a person spending $200 to get a disco connie has spent about the same as they would have if this were a $15 per month subscription game plus the cost of a couple of expansions per yer.
IMHO the OP is on to a really good idea. I'm personally waiting for the day these gamble boxes are made illegal, even if it means the game shuts down, which I regard as nothing more than a scare tactic from the white knights. OPs idea is a way to offer both to the player. There was also an idea about expanding lobi to allow for the purchasing of the boxed ships, also worth exploring I think. For those panning OP because the idea would devalue your "exclusivity", nobody said you had to stop opening boxes once you got enough tokens. Keep on opening the boxes if that's what you enjoy.
Thank you for the T6 Galaxy Class. - I support Tovan Khev. - Please bring back the exploration missions.
Honestly just because you can work to acquire currency to gamble does not mean its not gambling. Just because something is not legally recognized in the US as gambling does not make it not gambling. Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics. Hmmm lets look at reasonably in mathematical sense 39 days of grinding dilithium for 4 packs that have a 1% chance. In a event that lasts 21 days. You'll be lucky if you get two boxs giving you statistically minuet chance at it.
Sorry but they intentionally put these out of the reach of people, as a way of enticing spending. Even if you are being responsible there are many who arn't, some whom are psychologically addicted. It's a unethical business practice, that is doing less to benefit the game and the developers,as it is tarnishing it's name. In the end we don't know if the US government is going to get involved but other countries already have.
People in the US and some abroad have a lack of education on the topic of addiction. Also sounds like your not the person perfect world likes in it's system they much prefer the high spenders, that being the wealthy or gamblers.
Yes, loot boxes along with Magic the Gathering and sports cards packs are gambling according to the English definition but not the (USA) legal definition for regulation. Even that new "think of the children" bill doesn't describe them as gambling in the legal sense.
However, in STO you can get lock box, lobi, pack ships without gambling by buying them from the Exchange. Are they cheap? No. Are they gambling when purchased that way? No.
Can almost anyone afford them? Yes, if you save up the $15 a month you are not paying Cryptic for a MMO subscription. $180 a year + $40 for expansions buys you a couple of lock box ships or 4+ lobi ships. Save it up longer and you have a Connie.
Lets take MTG as a example, it has a third party market that is not with in their own ecosystem, you can just buy out right rare cards without gambling and with no controls by the makers of magic. They tend to be lower per card cost then buying a ship with energy credits selling zen items. Also there is guaranteed rarity, while you may not get the card you want you always get a rare card, you don't get a points card to buy a rare card if you get enough points like the lobi system. I can go online and buy the most expensive card in standard for 55$. While I understand they aren't one to one comparisons. You arn't guaranteed any thing with a single purchase unlike mtg. So MTG is more like grab bag kind of gambling, where as sto is much closer to a slot machine that has tiny consultation prize.
Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics
Probably because he believes or fears - like I do - that these mechanics is what keeps this game alive. The game wasn't doing as well under a subscription - and I mean that from a player perspective. There was a lot less content, a lot less updates, and the quality was lower. So I figure with the combination of C-Store ships and lockbox/promo ships, they found something that kept this game thriving. If that's the cost of having a Star Trek MMO where I can play space barbie and play new missions occasionally, then I am okay with the price. I fully accept that this game is a luxury I indulge him, and as luxury articles go, they can be expensive.
The reason the game did poorly during the first year is it was released too soon, I understand the reasons for this.
But I disagree believe that the game could have worked well with just the zen store, it just wouldn't have satisfied PW. But it would have been perfectly profitable.
The real question, that we'll never have answered, is how much would these R&D promo ships be IF they were put on the C-Store? Cryptic know how much extra income they make during these promos. They know how many ships enter the game due to lucky people. So what price point would equate to equal that income? It'd be interesting to know. For all we know, the R&D promo could be the most economical way for the average player to acquire a ship.
Based on yesterday's EC/Zen costs of the Discoprise, Master Keys and Promopacks. The Discoprise's price of 1.4B works out to be $200-$400 in real money. Would people TRIBBLE their pants if the ship had shown up on the C-Store at $250? Would more Discoprises have entered the game that way? Yes, the supply is infinite, but the price is over 8x the normal T6 ship? Would enough people actually buy it? What price point would sell enough ships to balance the current income? If governments get involved with loot boxes, we might find out. It's no sure thing that the outcome would be something we like.
The real question, that we'll never have answered, is how much would these R&D promo ships be IF they were put on the C-Store? Cryptic know how much extra income they make during these promos. They know how many ships enter the game due to lucky people. So what price point would equate to equal that income? It'd be interesting to know. For all we know, the R&D promo could be the most economical way for the average player to acquire a ship.
Based on yesterday's EC/Zen costs of the Discoprise, Master Keys and Promopacks. The Discoprise's price of 1.4B works out to be $200-$400 in real money. Would people TRIBBLE their pants if the ship had shown up on the C-Store at $250? Would more Discoprises have entered the game that way? Yes, the supply is infinite, but the price is over 8x the normal T6 ship? Would enough people actually buy it? What price point would sell enough ships to balance the current income? If governments get involved with loot boxes, we might find out. It's no sure thing that the outcome would be something we like.
If Discoprise needs to be 250+ to keep sto afloat then there are bigger problems in this game that they have yet to address. There is also the fact that all c-store discovery ships come with two skins a 2410 and the discovery variant. Why don't they charge 250+ for those ? Unless they pay way too much to license discovery from CBS. Which I doubt since having them in this game is kinda promotion for cbs. Even if sto's player base isn't huge.
In the end I'm not sure they know the metrics on that fully, since digital goods sell differently then physical ones, could very well be cheaper then 30$ assuming of course they marketed it right like announced no more lockboxs etc, you could see a large group of gamers who left come back just to buy it. But it's much safer for them in the short term to continue to do what they know works to bring in as much profit as possible.
Longterm I think its bad for the game to continue to do this to customers. The game is no longer as populated as it use to be, say when legacy of Romulus first released.
Based on yesterday's EC/Zen costs of the Discoprise, Master Keys and Promopacks. The Discoprise's price of 1.4B works out to be $200-$400 in real money.
It's down to a little less than $180 now using promo packs. Ship prices have gone down and pack prices have gone up.
If Discoprise needs to be 250+ to keep sto afloat then there are bigger problems in this game that they have yet to address. There is also the fact that all c-store discovery ships come with two skins a 2410 and the discovery variant. Why don't they charge 250+ for those ? Unless they pay way too much to license discovery from CBS. Which I doubt since having them in this game is kinda promotion for cbs. Even if sto's player base isn't huge.
In the end I'm not sure they know the metrics on that fully, since digital goods sell differently then physical ones, could very well be cheaper then 30$ assuming of course they marketed it right like announced no more lockboxs etc, you could see a large group of gamers who left come back just to buy it. But it's much safer for them in the short term to continue to do what they know works to bring in as much profit as possible.
Longterm I think its bad for the game to continue to do this to customers. The game is no longer as populated as it use to be, say when legacy of Romulus first released.
People have been crying DOOOM! since at least Delta Rising back in 2014. Cryptic seems to know more about running their business than the armchair Doomsayers.
Lets take MTG as a example, it has a third party market that is not with in their own ecosystem, you can just buy out right rare cards without gambling and with no controls by the makers of magic. They tend to be lower per card cost then buying a ship with energy credits selling zen items. Also there is guaranteed rarity, while you may not get the card you want you always get a rare card, you don't get a points card to buy a rare card if you get enough points like the lobi system. I can go online and buy the most expensive card in standard for 55$. While I understand they aren't one to one comparisons. You arn't guaranteed any thing with a single purchase unlike mtg. So MTG is more like grab bag kind of gambling, where as sto is much closer to a slot machine that has tiny consultation prize.
Yeah, but the aftermarket value of MTG cards is drastically varied. Pack A might have 55$ worth of singles, but it probably doesn't. Heck the aftermarket value of the cards might be less than cost of the packs.
The correct nomenclature is "Surprise Mechanics" =p
That EA representative must never have heard of the "euphemism" surprise sex for one of the worst crimes you can commit against an individual.
But speaking of Sechs, here is another compromise idea: Cryptic please release the Sech Battlecruiser as C-Store ship, then you can keep selling D7 and Disconnie as promo box in the form they are. (Plus minus any bugfixes, enhancements and balances changes you feel necessary to make.)
Well that was one of the smoothest transitions into a ship request I've ever read.
Agreed. "Achievement Unlocked".
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
My idea for a compromise would be: players accept that they can't have everything their way, the devs accept that some players won't pay for lockboxes, everybody knows where they're at, we can live happily ever after.
You expect rational thought and behavior? On the Interwebz of all places? Hahahahahah!!!!!1111!!!1111one11!!!!!1!!
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Based on yesterday's EC/Zen costs of the Discoprise, Master Keys and Promopacks. The Discoprise's price of 1.4B works out to be $200-$400 in real money.
It's down to a little less than $180 now using promo packs. Ship prices have gone down and pack prices have gone up.
It was less than that on Day 1. I personally dropped $200 on Zen when the server came up. I sold 10 stacks of Promo R&D boxes for $130 Billion, and then I bought the only Discoprise on the exchange at the time for 1.5 billion, and I still have 16 Promo boxes.
Cheap? No. But, the ship was announced in January, and being a rational person I knew it'd be an R&D Promo ship, so I set aside $200 from a side-gig to get it. No regrets.
On Reddit, I also noticed that the biggest crybabies about this subject are also the same people who say that T6 C-Store ships should be $5-$10. So, yeah. I'm far from well-off, but when I see whine threads about this here or elsewhere, all I can say is this: It smells like poor in here.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
I would think that making the ships account unlocks or at least unlocking the console/skin/pets/weapons/whatever goodies they have for the account would do a ot to make the situation "more bearable" for people.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I get that Cryptic makes their money off the loot boxes. I also don't say that overall they've been unfair. It's actually a very fairly priced game That said I question the decision to put the Discoprise into the R&D lockbox. Why? The R&D lockbox already has the Temporal Light Cruiser in it. Why not put it in a different gamble box, preferably one that people can constantly be throwing money at them to try and get it and not just once a quarter. Also why single out the T6 Connie variations fo be ONLY in the various gamble boxes? (And by the way I have an MBA from one ot the top business schools in the country, so Yea, I am questioning their BUSINESS judgment here. I'm not buying the story they have this all computed out and they know what they are doing and we plebes shouldn't question our masters.) Why don't they have one version of the Connie in the Zen store, one in the R&D loot box, and one in a lock box? Same with versions of the Galaxy, Sovereign, Defiant and Intrepid? People pay hundreds in other games for guns with a different paint job. Fine, put something like that in the R&D box.
Many people think that the more boxes they open, the better their chances of getting the ship.
It doesn't work that way. The odds are the same from the first box to the last box that they open.
The odds are the same for each box, but someone who opens 2 boxes is more likely to get 1 ship than someone who only opens 1.
True but the person you're quoting is referring to the notion some people hold that if the odds are 1000 to 1 for example, then the 1000th box must contain the grand price or they were cheated, that's not how probably works.
Only way each 1000th box absolutely constains the grand price is if you open an infinite amount of boxes and that's literally impossible in the proper defination of "literally" as you can do only finite amount of anything.
If you open a finite amount of boxes then the chance to get grand price is just that, a chance, it may or may not happen but there's no magic formula that makes it certain you'll get the price from the box.
Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics
Probably because he believes or fears - like I do - that these mechanics is what keeps this game alive. The game wasn't doing as well under a subscription - and I mean that from a player perspective. There was a lot less content, a lot less updates, and the quality was lower. So I figure with the combination of C-Store ships and lockbox/promo ships, they found something that kept this game thriving. If that's the cost of having a Star Trek MMO where I can play space barbie and play new missions occasionally, then I am okay with the price. I fully accept that this game is a luxury I indulge him, and as luxury articles go, they can be expensive.
Servers are quite cheap to run, most money is spent on paychecks and goes directly into their wallets. If they really wanted to, they could monetize the game in ways that still make it profitable, but they don't want to look into better methods of monetization they want the easy exploitative method that makes fat stacks for no effort.
There are plenty of games that don't have subscription models or lootboxes that can manage to stay profitable. The issue is cryptic is pretty set in stone in their ways and some people around here like to say "Cryptic has their statistics they know exactly what to do to make the most money" when no they probably don't. For instance, I have a Burger King around my house and they sell large Fountain Drinks around 2 dollars a pop and they're not that big. But then next door to it, my local gas station sells 44 oz fountain drinks, even bigger than BK's for 86 cents a pop, and they get far faaaar more business than burger king. Sometimes people don't change the prices because its just... always worked. Cryptic sells T6 ships for 30 dollars each, half the price of a new video game. Would they sell more T6 ships if they lowered the price to 20 dollars? Probably. Do they know that? Considering their virtually constant Z store sales, I think yes they actually do know that they need to lower their prices but they simply choose not to. Why? Either they're set in their ways and just won't change it because its how its always been done since they started doing it, or they think having constant sales instead of permanently lowering the price works better.
I would think that making the ships account unlocks or at least unlocking the console/skin/pets/weapons/whatever goodies they have for the account would do a lot to make the situation "more bearable" for people.
100% agreed. This is the only consistent rational point I see some people making.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics
Probably because he believes or fears - like I do - that these mechanics is what keeps this game alive. The game wasn't doing as well under a subscription - and I mean that from a player perspective. There was a lot less content, a lot less updates, and the quality was lower. So I figure with the combination of C-Store ships and lockbox/promo ships, they found something that kept this game thriving. If that's the cost of having a Star Trek MMO where I can play space barbie and play new missions occasionally, then I am okay with the price. I fully accept that this game is a luxury I indulge him, and as luxury articles go, they can be expensive.
Servers are quite cheap to run, most money is spent on paychecks and goes directly into their wallets. If they really wanted to, they could monetize the game in ways that still make it profitable, but they don't want to look into better methods of monetization they want the easy exploitative method that makes fat stacks for no effort.
There are plenty of games that don't have subscription models or lootboxes that can manage to stay profitable. The issue is cryptic is pretty set in stone in their ways and some people around here like to say "Cryptic has their statistics they know exactly what to do to make the most money" when no they probably don't. For instance, I have a Burger King around my house and they sell large Fountain Drinks around 2 dollars a pop and they're not that big. But then next door to it, my local gas station sells 44 oz fountain drinks, even bigger than BK's for 86 cents a pop, and they get far faaaar more business than burger king. Sometimes people don't change the prices because its just... always worked. Cryptic sells T6 ships for 30 dollars each, half the price of a new video game. Would they sell more T6 ships if they lowered the price to 20 dollars? Probably. Do they know that? Considering their virtually constant Z store sales, I think yes they actually do know that they need to lower their prices but they simply choose not to. Why? Either they're set in their ways and just won't change it because its how its always been done since they started doing it, or they think having constant sales instead of permanently lowering the price works better.
But obviously, Burger King's profit margin on those fountain drinks is presumably higher, and they don't know anything about what it costs the gas station to offer it (and what customers it brings them that purchase other stuff.)
However, Cryptic definitely has access to a lot more data.
They sell ships in the C-Store (sometimes solo, sometimes in packs), put them in lockboxes, they put them in promotions, they put them in events, and sometimes even as free giveaways. They can at least theoretically see what impact these decisions have.
Some say that the Disconnie is particularly powerful, but it should be noticed that there ships from all of these sources have been considered powerful, or came with powerful consoles or gear. Ships like the Arbiter or recently the Gagarin are highly recommended.
They also have hero ships both in the C-Store and in lockboxes, promotions or in the Lobi Store. So they have some data to compare.
You can speculate that they don't use the data they should have, but... they definitely have a chance to figure it out quite well, they don't have to just guess. Now, maybe they just guess and are totally wrong - but this topic is not really that new and came up before, I am not sure why anyone would believe this time is the one time they finally see reason and realize "the truth". Most likely, people are engaging in wishful thinking, and Cryptic is far closer to the truth then they are. Alternatively, maybe Cryptic does whatever it wants without good reason.
The game will turn 10 next year, and there are plenty of online games that failed in that time.
Has anyone considered that maybe, just maybe, Cryptic actually knows what it's doing, and why it's doing it?
I guess the people that say: "There should be a law against it" are considering that option. (And maybe they aren't wrong. But maybe they are and only say that because they are haggling over the prize of their luxury item.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
I am neither wealthy, and I don't gamble....yet I have a massive ship list. I put in what I can reasonably afford to. If I don't win a ship, I don't come complaining on the forum. Why? Because I understand the odds, and I understand what I might get, and I understand I've got a game for free that I can access all of the playable content without having to fork out repeatedly for it. Yes, I eventually bought the LTS, because I want to support the game, and that is what everyone should be thinking when they purchase anything in STO. Lockboxes and keys in STO do not fit the legal definition of gambling, and it's extremely likely they will not be affected by the current legislation because Cryptic give you the option to reasonably acquire them for nothing. I stress 'reasonably' because it is that easy to acquire them. If I really want a ship, I will grind it out and pray to RNGesus.
It doesn't work that way. The odds are the same from the first box to the last box that they open.
Honestly just because you can work to acquire currency to gamble does not mean its not gambling. Just because something is not legally recognized in the US as gambling does not make it not gambling. Why defend the practice you benefit very little from gambling mechanics. Hmmm lets look at reasonably in mathematical sense 39 days of grinding dilithium for 4 packs that have a 1% chance. In a event that lasts 21 days. You'll be lucky if you get two boxs giving you statistically minuet chance at it.
Sorry but they intentionally put these out of the reach of people, as a way of enticing spending. Even if you are being responsible there are many who arn't, some whom are psychologically addicted. It's a unethical business practice, that is doing less to benefit the game and the developers,as it is tarnishing it's name. In the end we don't know if the US government is going to get involved but other countries already have.
People in the US and some abroad have a lack of education on the topic of addiction. Also sounds like your not the person perfect world likes in it's system they much prefer the high spenders, that being the wealthy or gamblers.
Yes, loot boxes along with Magic the Gathering and sports cards packs are gambling according to the English definition but not the (USA) legal definition for regulation. Even that new "think of the children" bill doesn't describe them as gambling in the legal sense.
However, in STO you can get lock box, lobi, pack ships without gambling by buying them from the Exchange. Are they cheap? No. Are they gambling when purchased that way? No.
Can almost anyone afford them? Yes, if you save up the $15 a month you are not paying Cryptic for a MMO subscription. $180 a year + $40 for expansions buys you a couple of lock box ships or 4+ lobi ships. Save it up longer and you have a Connie.
The odds are the same for each box, but someone who opens 2 boxes is more likely to get 1 ship than someone who only opens 1.
In regards to your last sentence, you can actually get one now for about a little less than $200. To explain,
1) if you buy $200 worth of zen you get a 3k zen bonus, so 23,000 zen.
2) disco connies are currently selling for around 1.45bil. promo packs are currently selling for around 14mil.
3) 1.45bil / 14mil = 104 (the number of individual promo packs you need to sell on the exchange for 14mil each)
4) you can currently get 4 promo packs for 800 zen, and 104 / 4 = 26 (the number of 4 packs needed).
5) 26 x 800 = 20,800 = the amount of zen needed to buy 26 (4)pack promo packs.
So yes, at the end of the day a person spending $200 to get a disco connie has spent about the same as they would have if this were a $15 per month subscription game plus the cost of a couple of expansions per yer.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Lets take MTG as a example, it has a third party market that is not with in their own ecosystem, you can just buy out right rare cards without gambling and with no controls by the makers of magic. They tend to be lower per card cost then buying a ship with energy credits selling zen items. Also there is guaranteed rarity, while you may not get the card you want you always get a rare card, you don't get a points card to buy a rare card if you get enough points like the lobi system. I can go online and buy the most expensive card in standard for 55$. While I understand they aren't one to one comparisons. You arn't guaranteed any thing with a single purchase unlike mtg. So MTG is more like grab bag kind of gambling, where as sto is much closer to a slot machine that has tiny consultation prize.
The reason the game did poorly during the first year is it was released too soon, I understand the reasons for this.
But I disagree believe that the game could have worked well with just the zen store, it just wouldn't have satisfied PW. But it would have been perfectly profitable.
Based on yesterday's EC/Zen costs of the Discoprise, Master Keys and Promopacks. The Discoprise's price of 1.4B works out to be $200-$400 in real money. Would people TRIBBLE their pants if the ship had shown up on the C-Store at $250? Would more Discoprises have entered the game that way? Yes, the supply is infinite, but the price is over 8x the normal T6 ship? Would enough people actually buy it? What price point would sell enough ships to balance the current income? If governments get involved with loot boxes, we might find out.
If Discoprise needs to be 250+ to keep sto afloat then there are bigger problems in this game that they have yet to address. There is also the fact that all c-store discovery ships come with two skins a 2410 and the discovery variant. Why don't they charge 250+ for those ? Unless they pay way too much to license discovery from CBS. Which I doubt since having them in this game is kinda promotion for cbs. Even if sto's player base isn't huge.
In the end I'm not sure they know the metrics on that fully, since digital goods sell differently then physical ones, could very well be cheaper then 30$ assuming of course they marketed it right like announced no more lockboxs etc, you could see a large group of gamers who left come back just to buy it. But it's much safer for them in the short term to continue to do what they know works to bring in as much profit as possible.
Longterm I think its bad for the game to continue to do this to customers. The game is no longer as populated as it use to be, say when legacy of Romulus first released.
It's down to a little less than $180 now using promo packs. Ship prices have gone down and pack prices have gone up.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
People have been crying DOOOM! since at least Delta Rising back in 2014. Cryptic seems to know more about running their business than the armchair Doomsayers.
My character Tsin'xing
Agreed. "Achievement Unlocked".
You expect rational thought and behavior? On the Interwebz of all places? Hahahahahah!!!!!1111!!!1111one11!!!!!1!!
It was less than that on Day 1. I personally dropped $200 on Zen when the server came up. I sold 10 stacks of Promo R&D boxes for $130 Billion, and then I bought the only Discoprise on the exchange at the time for 1.5 billion, and I still have 16 Promo boxes.
Cheap? No. But, the ship was announced in January, and being a rational person I knew it'd be an R&D Promo ship, so I set aside $200 from a side-gig to get it. No regrets.
On Reddit, I also noticed that the biggest crybabies about this subject are also the same people who say that T6 C-Store ships should be $5-$10. So, yeah. I'm far from well-off, but when I see whine threads about this here or elsewhere, all I can say is this: It smells like poor in here.
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True but the person you're quoting is referring to the notion some people hold that if the odds are 1000 to 1 for example, then the 1000th box must contain the grand price or they were cheated, that's not how probably works.
Only way each 1000th box absolutely constains the grand price is if you open an infinite amount of boxes and that's literally impossible in the proper defination of "literally" as you can do only finite amount of anything.
If you open a finite amount of boxes then the chance to get grand price is just that, a chance, it may or may not happen but there's no magic formula that makes it certain you'll get the price from the box.
Servers are quite cheap to run, most money is spent on paychecks and goes directly into their wallets. If they really wanted to, they could monetize the game in ways that still make it profitable, but they don't want to look into better methods of monetization they want the easy exploitative method that makes fat stacks for no effort.
There are plenty of games that don't have subscription models or lootboxes that can manage to stay profitable. The issue is cryptic is pretty set in stone in their ways and some people around here like to say "Cryptic has their statistics they know exactly what to do to make the most money" when no they probably don't. For instance, I have a Burger King around my house and they sell large Fountain Drinks around 2 dollars a pop and they're not that big. But then next door to it, my local gas station sells 44 oz fountain drinks, even bigger than BK's for 86 cents a pop, and they get far faaaar more business than burger king. Sometimes people don't change the prices because its just... always worked. Cryptic sells T6 ships for 30 dollars each, half the price of a new video game. Would they sell more T6 ships if they lowered the price to 20 dollars? Probably. Do they know that? Considering their virtually constant Z store sales, I think yes they actually do know that they need to lower their prices but they simply choose not to. Why? Either they're set in their ways and just won't change it because its how its always been done since they started doing it, or they think having constant sales instead of permanently lowering the price works better.
100% agreed. This is the only consistent rational point I see some people making.
However, Cryptic definitely has access to a lot more data.
They sell ships in the C-Store (sometimes solo, sometimes in packs), put them in lockboxes, they put them in promotions, they put them in events, and sometimes even as free giveaways. They can at least theoretically see what impact these decisions have.
Some say that the Disconnie is particularly powerful, but it should be noticed that there ships from all of these sources have been considered powerful, or came with powerful consoles or gear. Ships like the Arbiter or recently the Gagarin are highly recommended.
They also have hero ships both in the C-Store and in lockboxes, promotions or in the Lobi Store. So they have some data to compare.
You can speculate that they don't use the data they should have, but... they definitely have a chance to figure it out quite well, they don't have to just guess. Now, maybe they just guess and are totally wrong - but this topic is not really that new and came up before, I am not sure why anyone would believe this time is the one time they finally see reason and realize "the truth". Most likely, people are engaging in wishful thinking, and Cryptic is far closer to the truth then they are. Alternatively, maybe Cryptic does whatever it wants without good reason.
The game will turn 10 next year, and there are plenty of online games that failed in that time.
Has anyone considered that maybe, just maybe, Cryptic actually knows what it's doing, and why it's doing it?
I guess the people that say: "There should be a law against it" are considering that option. (And maybe they aren't wrong. But maybe they are and only say that because they are haggling over the prize of their luxury item.)