rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
My personal views on the Borg Queen are similar to the explanation of the existance of the Queens from Star Trek Legacy. Basically central processor units that help to unify and control the growing Collective. And as we saw in First Contact, the death of a Queen has an adverse affect on any Borg in the area. Hence why they try and protect them. Losing a Queen doesn't devastate the Collective as a whole, but it does weaken local forces at least. Immediate vacinity its total defeat, but farther out its possible that data processing slows down until they can get another processor or something.
As for the Borg themselves... we know how to fight them. They are not the armegeddon event they once were.
They didn't lose their threat because "we know how to fight them", they lost their threat because their most powerful ability has been pretty much neutralized by the abundance of cheap and readily available weapons that bypass their shields and can't be adapted to.
The game has been set up to make their adaptive ability almost completely worthless, and their ships don't even adapt at all.
There is an excellent book series (Star Trek - Destiny) which explains the origin of the Borg, in a very logical and satisfying manner; it would make a great adaptation for the game, and would even allow for the integration of a semi borg species (I wont give any spoilers for those who may not have read the books).
Another problem with giving the Borg too much attention is that it could result in ISA receiving an update/attention - that would upset a LOT of players.
I don't think it would get as much negativity as you think.
Most people agree that it could use some updates, or at the very least an Elite version of what's already in game. As far as parsing goes, it wouldn't be an issue. If there is anything that DPS oriented players have become accustomed to, it's adaptation.
Voyager attempting to retcon them from an ancient horror that was around at least as far back as when the Iconians were destroyed to the second youngest known major civilization was bad enough
Voyager did nothing for the sort. All Voyager did was mention that the Borg were around 1,000 years ago during the time of the Vaadwaur, and that their knowledge of said time was fragmentary. Being 1,000+ years old makes them one of the oldest space faring empires in Trek canon. Only like the Dominion and Voth are still around, and pre-date the Borg by any real measure.
For once we're in complete agreement (insert sign of the apocalypse joke here). Yeah, all "Dragon's Teeth" said was that the Borg don't clearly remember what was going on ~1,000 years ago, which is easily chalked up to degradation of storage media.
Or that Seven, being just one drone, just might not possess the sum total knowledge of the entire Collective all by herself.
What Q and Guinan said in TNG only states that whatever species became the first Borg began down that path that would make them Borg two hundred thousand years ago. Not that the Borg were a thing, assimilating people, 200,000 years ago. If the Borg were that old they would have assimilated the galaxy by now given how powerful they are.
Not necessarily. I've played around with a theory that Borg drones don't last forever (they are, after all, partly biological), so the Borg maybe run on a boom-and-bust cycle*, or maybe deliberately restrain their conquests to keep from running out of targets. We know there are species and civilizations they explicitly refuse to assimilate (namely the Kazon), and there's any number of small polities in the shadow of Borg home space that are still intact even though the Borg would easily overwhelm them if they wanted to.
For that matter the Borg could've easily overwhelmed the Federation back in the 2370s had they actually tried.
The borg assimilate to gain new "biological and technological distinctiveness." Species and civilizations that would contribute nothing more than warm bodies are not interesting to them, because they can just clone drones if necessary.
Honestly, having spend hours and hours almost each day fighting the borg back in the old day before the reputation system was added, when trying to get the MACO/HonorGuard/Omega stuff... I really hating fighting them now and I ended up avoid them as much as possible today.
I am however REALLY thankful for the weapons that avoid the adaption gimmick, Cuz otherwise its "fire two shots, remodulate, fire two shots, remodulate"...
IMO its not time for the Borg, I can wait a bit longer until they appear again. But otherwise good idea for later. ^_^
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
no thx, I hate already the borg stfs. they should be removed from TFO, they appear too often and they are just a dps fiesta. + the Borg are outdated, ridiculous and mostly destroyed.
There is an excellent book series (Star Trek - Destiny) which explains the origin of the Borg, in a very logical and satisfying manner; it would make a great adaptation for the game, and would even allow for the integration of a semi borg species (I wont give any spoilers for those who may not have read the books).
oh god please no, i hated that series with a passion.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Hi, what ever happen to Borg invasion to Vega system by the Borg in intro mission for Feds side? (sorry kind of new) I love to see Borg come back with Vengeance.
Hi, what ever happen to Borg invasion to Vega system by the Borg in intro mission for Feds side? (sorry kind of new) I love to see Borg come back with Vengeance.
Forgot to say and have our Liberated Borg kick their Borg butts again and again
Destiny is one of the worst book series to come out of the Trek novel-verse, and almost totally ruined the Borg in the process. IF there is any way to NOT to the Borg, its Destiny.
@somtaawkhar well... everybody is entitled to an opinion; I disagree with yours, and found the books excellent.
P.S; you ascribed a quote to myself that I did not state.
The fact that Destiny is not a Paramount or CBS canon work that Cryptic has access to already means that they would probably stay away from it to avoid IP issues, so whatever they might do to revamp the Borg stuff (and there are a lot of possibilites for that) you can be pretty sure it is not Destiny.
The fact that Destiny is not a Paramount or CBS canon work that Cryptic has access to already means that they would probably stay away from it to avoid IP issues, so whatever they might do to revamp the Borg stuff (and there are a lot of possibilites for that) you can be pretty sure it is not Destiny.
It was my understanding that whomever wrote stories under the Trek' franchise name automatically conferred the rights to use that content to the I.P holders (CBS/Paramount), as they had problems in the past with script writers withholding permission for certain things and so any future novels where classed as free to use (although not cannon) CBS/Paramount chose to do so. I can't give you a link, as this is something I recall reading in the official Star Trek mag quite some time back, so it's possible I am completely wrong!
The fact that Destiny is not a Paramount or CBS canon work that Cryptic has access to already means that they would probably stay away from it to avoid IP issues, so whatever they might do to revamp the Borg stuff (and there are a lot of possibilites for that) you can be pretty sure it is not Destiny.
It was my understanding that whomever wrote stories under the Trek' franchise name automatically conferred the rights to use that content to the I.P holders (CBS/Paramount), as they had problems in the past with script writers withholding permission for certain things and so any future novels where classed as free to use (although not cannon) CBS/Paramount chose to do so. I can't give you a link, as this is something I recall reading in the official Star Trek mag quite some time back, so it's possible I am completely wrong!
True, there is that, but it is still untested in court and I doubt Cryptic is willing to play guinea pig after the way they were already burned in acquiring a popular but not strictly canon ship from a novel or comic (I forget which at the moment).
For instance, technically the FASA ships are nearly as quasi-canon as TAS is since every single design had to be approved by Paramount and certified as canon-compatible before they could be used in the game. All of the designs are owned by Paramount and/or CBS jointly with FASA, but even back in the day the studio was hesitant to use them (though they did use the Orion Wanderer-class cruiser in a ship ID display when talking to a Starfleet-registered warship on DS9 (probably inferring that the Federation purchased some ships from foreign powers like the Orions to boost fleet numbers at the same time they were making the kitbash fleet)). Joint ownership of anything is potentially a problem.
I wish the IP situation was actually was as simple as it looks on the surface, the Wanderer is one of very few ships I would consider paying cash money for (the kitbash fleet Yeager-class is another) for instance, but I can understand the need to play it safe.
We adapt. Your 'knowledge' of our capabilities can instantly become obsolete.
The Picard's biological parameters are deteriorating. After his bio-functions self-terminate there will be none worthy in your Federation to protect you.
You will be assimilated. Everything is going according to our plan. Your end is inevitable.
I would agree that seeing most enemies come back quickly after being defeated would be weird, though the Borg have one thing going for them. Their ability to assimilate an adapt which can by virtue of that fact explain their quick gains in power, and ability to nullify tactics or tech that had defeated them before. The biggest thing that was always a worry was a Borg finding an assimilating more advanced technology, or even assimilating tech from ships using the tactics an systems a race uses.
Borg story arc ideas: I think afew ideas of less the Borg being the main enemy, or threat to start off with would be more interesting, compared to just them being the main big bag.
Coup-borg infiltration: It would be interesting to see a story arc with us going to help investigate the disappearance of several coup-borg vessels, and then finding out the Borg have shifted methods of regaining the lost Borg drones after the loss of the Borg queen. An now have used the idea of the Borg-queen having a form of free-will an individuality to allow them to infiltrate the cooperative, before then commandeering some fo their ships to re-assimilate them into the collective.
Borg activity: I could see something less of Borg focusing on the beta/alpha quad, and more the delta (an maybe the gamma) quad asking for aid after noticing a increase in Borg activity in specific area like around the hulks of some of the enemies we have defeated. As I have always said imagine if a Borg assimilated some vaadwaur/iconian/herald technology, and did it while we were focusing on other things in our quad with the only groups to keep them at bay being races of less development technology wise than ourselves, these groups would ask for aid an the alliance might only send in a small group to aid them (using the mind set of even the community. What danger do they pose?). We would do missions attempting to keep highly advanced technology out of their hands, but with small groups of people attempting to keep them from assimilating it they would succeed potentially sometime.
Borg origins: I don't mind the idea of a arc that focuses on the investigating of the origins of the Borg, even if that investigation leads us thru investigation origins I might not agree with. It would be different an interesting to instead of just battling the Borg investigate their origins, and uncover things about them. If the Borg are basically almost harmless now than i could see the federation doing some research like that. You also have in some of the shows people already doing that research close up prior to the Borg being battered down.
Yet like I said before i would rather see if they did this a revamp of the Borg to make fighting them more interesting, and interactive. Bringing back the adaptive aspect of the Borg via some plot element an instead of it being something that is countered by using one specific item, that we as players need to use our captain or boff abilities to counter act what they are doing would be more fun to me atleast. Though this type of gameplay could be used in other areas, and also to make boff abilities that are less desirable more appealing to use via situations.
All I can say is if Cryptic wants the borg to still be around they better not allow my captain to gain access to the viral code thing that the crew of the Ent-D developed because it WOULD be used without any hesitation.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Going back to the STFs not fitting in anymore... Kitomer used to tie into the original Fed tutorial. Hell... Kitomer Ground takes place in an underground facility on Vega where the Borg are converting old Drones to new ones using the IMRs, and our characters followed in order to ensure that the new drones don't overwhelm Vega in the past when our characters were just starting out. Since the revamped tutorial that no longer makes sense as there is nothing to tie it into the invasion of Vega Colony.
V'ger being a product of/linked to the Borg has been discussed to death already so not going there.
Its already hinted in game because the Unicomplex ships look pretty much exactly like the original V'Ger ship, although way smaller, and posess the same energy bolt weapon that vaped the three K'Tingas in TMP. Anything further would probably have to be explored if they go down that route.
Comments
As for the Borg themselves... we know how to fight them. They are not the armegeddon event they once were.
The game has been set up to make their adaptive ability almost completely worthless, and their ships don't even adapt at all.
I don't think it would get as much negativity as you think.
Most people agree that it could use some updates, or at the very least an Elite version of what's already in game. As far as parsing goes, it wouldn't be an issue. If there is anything that DPS oriented players have become accustomed to, it's adaptation.
The borg assimilate to gain new "biological and technological distinctiveness." Species and civilizations that would contribute nothing more than warm bodies are not interesting to them, because they can just clone drones if necessary.
I am however REALLY thankful for the weapons that avoid the adaption gimmick, Cuz otherwise its "fire two shots, remodulate, fire two shots, remodulate"...
IMO its not time for the Borg, I can wait a bit longer until they appear again. But otherwise good idea for later. ^_^
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Forgot to say and have our Liberated Borg kick their Borg butts
@somtaawkhar well... everybody is entitled to an opinion; I disagree with yours, and found the books excellent.
P.S; you ascribed a quote to myself that I did not state.
It was my understanding that whomever wrote stories under the Trek' franchise name automatically conferred the rights to use that content to the I.P holders (CBS/Paramount), as they had problems in the past with script writers withholding permission for certain things and so any future novels where classed as free to use (although not cannon) CBS/Paramount chose to do so. I can't give you a link, as this is something I recall reading in the official Star Trek mag quite some time back, so it's possible I am completely wrong!
True, there is that, but it is still untested in court and I doubt Cryptic is willing to play guinea pig after the way they were already burned in acquiring a popular but not strictly canon ship from a novel or comic (I forget which at the moment).
For instance, technically the FASA ships are nearly as quasi-canon as TAS is since every single design had to be approved by Paramount and certified as canon-compatible before they could be used in the game. All of the designs are owned by Paramount and/or CBS jointly with FASA, but even back in the day the studio was hesitant to use them (though they did use the Orion Wanderer-class cruiser in a ship ID display when talking to a Starfleet-registered warship on DS9 (probably inferring that the Federation purchased some ships from foreign powers like the Orions to boost fleet numbers at the same time they were making the kitbash fleet)). Joint ownership of anything is potentially a problem.
I wish the IP situation was actually was as simple as it looks on the surface, the Wanderer is one of very few ships I would consider paying cash money for (the kitbash fleet Yeager-class is another) for instance, but I can understand the need to play it safe.
We adapt. Your 'knowledge' of our capabilities can instantly become obsolete.
The Picard's biological parameters are deteriorating. After his bio-functions self-terminate there will be none worthy in your Federation to protect you.
You will be assimilated. Everything is going according to our plan. Your end is inevitable.
_____________________
Borg Eternal Emperor
Borg story arc ideas: I think afew ideas of less the Borg being the main enemy, or threat to start off with would be more interesting, compared to just them being the main big bag.- Coup-borg infiltration: It would be interesting to see a story arc with us going to help investigate the disappearance of several coup-borg vessels, and then finding out the Borg have shifted methods of regaining the lost Borg drones after the loss of the Borg queen. An now have used the idea of the Borg-queen having a form of free-will an individuality to allow them to infiltrate the cooperative, before then commandeering some fo their ships to re-assimilate them into the collective.
- Borg activity: I could see something less of Borg focusing on the beta/alpha quad, and more the delta (an maybe the gamma) quad asking for aid after noticing a increase in Borg activity in specific area like around the hulks of some of the enemies we have defeated. As I have always said imagine if a Borg assimilated some vaadwaur/iconian/herald technology, and did it while we were focusing on other things in our quad with the only groups to keep them at bay being races of less development technology wise than ourselves, these groups would ask for aid an the alliance might only send in a small group to aid them (using the mind set of even the community. What danger do they pose?). We would do missions attempting to keep highly advanced technology out of their hands, but with small groups of people attempting to keep them from assimilating it they would succeed potentially sometime.
- Borg origins: I don't mind the idea of a arc that focuses on the investigating of the origins of the Borg, even if that investigation leads us thru investigation origins I might not agree with. It would be different an interesting to instead of just battling the Borg investigate their origins, and uncover things about them. If the Borg are basically almost harmless now than i could see the federation doing some research like that. You also have in some of the shows people already doing that research close up prior to the Borg being battered down.
Yet like I said before i would rather see if they did this a revamp of the Borg to make fighting them more interesting, and interactive. Bringing back the adaptive aspect of the Borg via some plot element an instead of it being something that is countered by using one specific item, that we as players need to use our captain or boff abilities to counter act what they are doing would be more fun to me atleast. Though this type of gameplay could be used in other areas, and also to make boff abilities that are less desirable more appealing to use via situations.
Its already hinted in game because the Unicomplex ships look pretty much exactly like the original V'Ger ship, although way smaller, and posess the same energy bolt weapon that vaped the three K'Tingas in TMP. Anything further would probably have to be explored if they go down that route.