The Borg VS the Galatic Empire who would Win and Way

ryuranger

i wanna start a Poll on who you think will win the Borg from Star Trek or the Galactic Empire! My Money is the Borg Collective and I have 2 reasons Advance Tech and Able to Adapt to Anything the Advance Tech is an Advantage to have agents the Empire manly there Transporter Technology on where they can Beam in drones to the Vessels and Assimilate the Crew Also another reason there ability to adapt. This is one of the Biggest reason they are HUGE Threat to the Federation and to all intelligent life in the Universe!!! They can Adapt to all weapons and what ever Tech they through at them Now you can fight about is that those who have Knowledge of the Dark Side of the Force like the Sith Would able to defeat the Borg Yes but for a Time. You See one thing part of there adaptions they learn new things as they assimilate and if they get someone with knowledge of the force the Borg can use Force Sensitive Drones and able to control the Sith as well so yeah The Borg will Control the Galactic Empire and the entire Star Wars Galaxy!!!

theraven2378

The Borg

Trek weapons out range SW weapons

alexmakepeace

The Borg

The borg. It's not just that the borg adapt, it's that you have to adapt to overcome the borg, and the people in Star Wars are not especially adaptive. Galactic society is stagnant, relying on basically the same tech their ancestors did thousands of years ago, repeating the same cycles of rising and falling empires and back-and-forth between the Jedi and Sith.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

theboxisred

I say it comes down to energy manipulation. Almost every Star Trek space faring civilization engages in energy manipulation to one degree or another to advance their technological prowess.

In Star Wars all they ever do is make a bigger laser. Since the Borg adapt quite quickly, after the first few shots, the Biggly Big laser of Great Big Bigness becomes bad comedy.

Mind you, I'm restricting my analysis to that which I have seen on screen.

Oh, the Force you say?

Well, the Galactic Empire has done away with nearly every force user that would work with them. So while Vader or the Emperor might take out a vessel or two, that would be cold comfort when other vessels render their fleet as air tight as a canoe.

artan42

It's the Empire. It's always the Empire. It's also the Cybermen. The Borg that exist onscreen do not have the magical, galaxy conquering abilities fans imagine they do when confronted with this topic over and over again.

They are vastly outnumbered, outgunned, and as the Empire are acting as the good guys in this situation then the Borg will lose due to plot reasons as well.​​

theboxisred

artan42 wrote: »

It's the Empire. It's always the Empire. It's also the Cybermen. The Borg that exist onscreen do not have the magical, galaxy conquering abilities fans imagine they do when confronted with this topic over and over again.

They are vastly outnumbered, outgunned, and as the Empire are acting as the good guys in this situation then the Borg will lose due to plot reasons as well.​​

Plot armor. The one thing that no force can overcome.

angrytarg

The question makes no sense.

If we assume 'original' TNG Borg it's like asking "Who would win, the Hulk against a hurricane". Realborg© are more akin to a natural hazard and would probably not care much for SW tech unless attacked.

If we assume FC/VOY Borg they are an inept disgrace and fail at everything they do because the Queen throws a fit because she's having a rash. Unless Seven of Nine is involved, she opens up the console and enters some cheatcode to instantly blow up the Empire before going on a date with Brannon Braga.

alexmakepeace

The Borg

angrytarg wrote: »

The question makes no sense.

If we assume 'original' TNG Borg it's like asking "Who would win, the Hulk against a hurricane". Realborg© are more akin to a natural hazard and would probably not care much for SW tech unless attacked.

If we assume FC/VOY Borg they are an inept disgrace and fail at everything they do because the Queen throws a fit because she's having a rash. Unless Seven of Nine is involved, she opens up the console and enters some cheatcode to instantly blow up the Empire before going on a date with Braga.

Seven of Nine on a date with this guy?

angrytarg

> @alexmakepeace said:
> Seven of Nine on a date with this guy?

Brannon. Should have specified 😜

artan42

reyan01 wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

It's the Empire. It's always the Empire. It's also the Cybermen. The Borg that exist onscreen do not have the magical, galaxy conquering abilities fans imagine they do when confronted with this topic over and over again.

They are vastly outnumbered, outgunned, and as the Empire are acting as the good guys in this situation then the Borg will lose due to plot reasons as well.

But as I said in my earlier post, it doesn't matter whether it's the Borg, the Federation, the KDF or even Q, SW fans always have some excuse for SW being superior. Always.

Because SW is Type III civilisation and ST is a Type I. Excluding outliers like the Q or other magical entities. (the Cybermen are Type III-IV for reference).

A Bear is quite a dangerous animal and would slaughter a human (even one with a gun in most circumstances) but it could not do anything against 7 billion humans. All the bears on the planet could no absolutely nothing against humanity. Humans are just that much higher than bears on the scale.
The Bear is the Borg and humanity are the Empire. And we're not even a I on the scale yet.​​

angrytarg

> @artan42 said:
(...)All the bears on the planet could no absolutely nothing against humanity. Humans are just that much higher than bears on the scale.(...)

I think we found a volunteer to entertain our new ursine overlords with embarassing dance numbers.

starkaos

It depends on how long the war lasts for and if the Empire has a functional Death Star. The Empire would have the advantage at the start, but after the Borg assimilates and adapts to Empire technology, then the Borg would have the advantage. Although, it would be interesting what would happen if the Borg assimilates someone trained in the Force.

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

> @artan42 said:
(...)All the bears on the planet could no absolutely nothing against humanity. Humans are just that much higher than bears on the scale.(...)

I think we found a volunteer to entertain our new ursine overlords with embarassing dance numbers.

I shall dance to the track 'What a Good Boy' from the album 'Gordon'. Our overlords will kick themselves when they get the joke.​​

ryuranger

The Borg

To be honest I am both a Huge Star Trek and a Huge Star Wars Fan Equally I rather Watch Phantom Menace and Jar Jar TRIBBLE Holeness all Day then site to watch Star Trek The Motion Picture as an Example The One thing is Trek Tech is Way WAY more Advance then that of SW yeah they may have Light Sabers and Quantum Slip Stream (Hyper Drive) but that's it compare to that of Alpha and Beta of the Milky-way Galaxy. One thing was one of my favorite lines from Empire Strikes Back when The Falcon diapered from there Raiders "No Ship that Small as a Clocking Device". That would mean the Clocking Device must be huge in order to disappeared that means the Romulans and Klingons Clock are MORE Advance then that of the SWU. In the Star Trek DS9 s07e12 - The Emperor's New Cloak we see Quark and Rom carrying Martok's clocking Device over to the trans-dimensional Transporter that would mean it would fit in to a ship like a Runabout witch is a almost the same Size as that of the Falcon and did I mention Star Trek has Transporters and Star Wars Don't!

starkaos

The Star Wars prequel is far more fun once you realize that Jar Jar Binks is actually Darth Jar Jar.

artan42

ryuranger wrote: »

To be honest I am both a Huge Star Trek and a Huge Star Wars Fan Equally I rather Watch Phantom Menace and Jar Jar TRIBBLE Holeness all Day then site to watch Star Trek The Motion Picture as an Example The One thing is Trek Tech is Way WAY more Advance then that of SW yeah they may have Light Sabers and Quantum Slip Stream (Hyper Drive) but that's it compare to that of Alpha and Beta of the Milky-way Galaxy. One thing was one of my favorite lines from Empire Strikes Back when The Falcon diapered from there Raiders "No Ship that Small as a Clocking Device". That would mean the Clocking Device must be huge in order to disappeared that means the Romulans and Klingons Clock are MORE Advance then that of the SWU. In the Star Trek DS9 s07e12 - The Emperor's New Cloak we see Quark and Rom carrying Martok's clocking Device over to the trans-dimensional Transporter that would mean it would fit in to a ship like a Runabout witch is a almost the same Size as that of the Falcon and did I mention Star Trek has Transporters and Star Wars Don't!

I find it very hard to read what you post when you capitalise every other work and don't use sentences.

Going by the gist of what you're saying, you're wrong. SW is massivly more advanced than the majority of ST races (including the Borg). SW are up to the stage where a small remnant of the Empire has converted a planet to a battlestation that uses stars as fuel and can fire on multiple targets through hyperspace and destroy them.

Also, in TCW you see Anakin pilot a small ship about as wide as a runabout and as long as four runabouts that has a cloaking device so Needa or Piett (or whoever it was) was wrong about the size of ship that can be equipped with a cloaking device.

Transporters are so easily countered in Trek depending on the plot that, again, depending on the plot of this vs battle the Empire could also interfere with.​​

pottsey5g

The Borg

starkaos wrote: »

It depends on how long the war lasts for and if the Empire has a functional Death Star. The Empire would have the advantage at the start, but after the Borg assimilates and adapts to Empire technology, then the Borg would have the advantage. Although, it would be interesting what would happen if the Borg assimilates someone trained in the Force.

The Borg already have assimilated Force users. The thing is the Force is just telepaths and telekinesis which Star Trek is full off. Only the Force is rare in Star Wars while Star Trek has entire planets full of millions if not trillions of force users, the planet Betazed is just one of many. Its not like the Borg have never come across “the force” or powers like it.

All that would happen is Borg transport onto Star Wars ships, the troops shoot lasers at the Borg which do nothing and then the borg nanites start assimilating the crew and later ship.

The biggest problem for Star Wars is the primitive Quantum Slip Stream Hyper Drive that is like a train track that can only go down preestablished routes. While the Borg have advanced Transwarp FTL that is so much more flexable. Its like comparing a Helicopter V a Train. The train might be faster at points but the Helicopter has full freedom of movement including going where the train has no access.

starkaos

pottsey5g wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

It depends on how long the war lasts for and if the Empire has a functional Death Star. The Empire would have the advantage at the start, but after the Borg assimilates and adapts to Empire technology, then the Borg would have the advantage. Although, it would be interesting what would happen if the Borg assimilates someone trained in the Force.

The Borg already have assimilated Force users. The thing is the Force is just telepaths and telekinesis which Star Trek is full off. Only the Force is rare in Star Wars while Star Trek has entire planets full of millions if not trillions of force users, the planet Betazed is just one of many. Its not like the Borg have never come across “the force” or powers like it.

All that would happen is Borg transport onto Star Wars ships, the troops shoot lasers at the Borg which do nothing and then the borg nanites start assimilating the crew and later ship.

The biggest problem for Star Wars is the primitive Quantum Slip Stream Hyper Drive that is like a train track that can only go down preestablished routes. While the Borg have advanced Transwarp FTL that is so much more flexable. Its like comparing a Helicopter V a Train. The train might be faster at points but the Helicopter has full freedom of movement including going where the train has no access.

Telepathy would be mostly useless for the Borg since they are a Hive Mind and their method of communication is almost always assimilation. We have never seen the Borg use any significant biological abilities assimilated from their victims even though they say "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own." We have never seen the Borg exhibit any telekinetic abilities. Besides Telekinesis and Telepathy is only a portion of the Force.

In order for the Borg to transport onto Star Wars ships and be invulnerable to blaster fire, the Borg have to adapt to Star Wars shield technology and blaster fire. The only way that the Borg could transport onto Star Wars ship without adaption is if the shield technology in Star Trek is the same as Star Wars.

The Borg being able to use Transwarp in the Star Wars Universe or the Empire being able to use Hyperspace in the Star Trek Universe might not be possible due to Subspace might not exist in the Star Wars Universe and Hyperspace might not exist in the Star Trek Universe.

angrytarg

The Borg never "used" anything they assimilated. The writers were too afraid to change them but insisted to make them permanent appearances so they made them stagnant and ruined the whole concept. Not even FC/VOY wussyborg© were the result of adaptation, they had to retcon them as nonsensical as it was.

No writer understood the concept and why it was interesting to begin with.

starkaos

angrytarg wrote: »

The Borg never "used" anything they assimilated. The writers were too afraid to change them but insisted to make them permanent appearances so they made them stagnant and ruined the whole concept. Not even FC/VOY wussyborg© were the result of adaptation, they had to retcon them as nonsensical as it was.

No writer understood the concept and why it was interesting to begin with.

Seven of Nine made a mention of Autonomous Regeneration Sequencers that the Borg assimilated from Species 259 from Galactic Cluster 3 and there might a few more mentions of which species the Borg assimilated other technology from, but that is purely ancedotal. Actual assimilation seems to be missing in Star Trek.

The only real assimilation occurred with One in the Drone episode from Voyager when some nanoprobes assimilated the Doctor's mobile emitter. Of course, there was a few problems with the assimilation process that don't make any sense like how nanoprobes and the mobile emitter could create a Borg Maturation chamber to create a 29th Century drone purely from a DNA sample. The only reasonable explanation is that the mobile emitter is far more powerful than just a mobile emitter and is being completely underused like using a smartphone as a paperweight.

theboxisred

I always figured that the Borg simply had better tech than anyone we saw them assimilate. As such, when samples were retrieved or outposts scooped up, it was for the purpose of either analyzing the sample (cutting beam vs. the Enterprise D) or for the acquisition of processed materials for whatever purpose.

Naturally any people were assimilated into the collective. It makes sense that if the technology wasn't as advanced as Borg tech it would still be gathered for resource grind purposes.

Ultimately it wasn't purely tech that was used to combat the Borg. It was also creativity.

EDIT:
The Borg were ruined, though. In much the same way as the Weeping Angels.
How much fun would it be to learn that there was more than a single Collective or Hive, if you prefer? This would allow a more diverse Borg threat as the varied Hives could be shown to adapt, or "evolve," in assorted directions.

I think that would make the Borg a far more interesting threat over all.

markhawkman

The Borg

I would say the Borg. Mainly because the Empire's only defense vs Assimilation is the nuclear approach and I don't think that would work consistently enough. That and imagine if the Borg made landfall someplace like Coruscant? The Empire's only option would be to use a Death Star. Not necessarily full-power, but enough to blow city sized holes in the planet.

But, assimilation isn't really all that fast, and the Borg would need to figure out how to assimilate all the races they've not seen before. Granted, in most cases it'd not take that long, but there's dozens to figure out.

I don't see it as a given that a lone drone could assimilate the entire Empire, but it's possible. The reverse isn't true. Thus the Borg are a greater threat to the Empire, than the Empire are to the Borg.

rattler2

theboxisred wrote: »

How much fun would it be to learn that there was more than a single Collective or Hive, if you prefer? This would allow a more diverse Borg threat as the varied Hives could be shown to adapt, or "evolve," in assorted directions.

I think that would make the Borg a far more interesting threat over all.

The problem is the Collective nature of the Borg. It really only allows for basically one overriding network. We've seen how the Queen deals with threats to the Collective with the whole "Unimatrix 0" thing. Even if one drone was detected on a whole cube, she'd destroy the cube to remove that one drone.

The closest we have is the Cooperative, which is made up of Liberated Borg. They may have some form of Collective hive mind, but its not the overpowering "your soul is mine" type that the Collective has.

The closest to what you describe in any franchise might be the post Overmind death Zerg Swarm in StarCraft. Cerebrates had more freedom to evolve their respective Broods, although still answered directly to the Queen of Blades once she fully established herself. After deinfestation at the hands of Raynor, the various Broods had even more freedom to evolve on their own. While some did fall under the sway of Amon, others did side with Kerrigan when she reclaimed her position as the Primal Queen of Blades.

artan42

markhawkman wrote: »

I would say the Borg. Mainly because the Empire's only defense vs Assimilation is the nuclear approach and I don't think that would work consistently enough. That and imagine if the Borg made landfall someplace like Coruscant? The Empire's only option would be to use a Death Star. Not necessarily full-power, but enough to blow city sized holes in the planet.

But, assimilation isn't really all that fast, and the Borg would need to figure out how to assimilate all the races they've not seen before. Granted, in most cases it'd not take that long, but there's dozens to figure out.

I don't see it as a given that a lone drone could assimilate the entire Empire, but it's possible. The reverse isn't true. Thus the Borg are a greater threat to the Empire, than the Empire are to the Borg.

One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.

Follow it up with a DBZ to any worlds with Borg left on them.​​

angrytarg

> @artan42 said:
>
> One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.
>
> Follow it up with a DBZ to any worlds with Borg left on them.​​

What does Borg need with a Dragon Ball?

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

> @artan42 said:
>
> One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.
>
> Follow it up with a DBZ to any worlds with Borg left on them.

What does Borg need with a Dragon Ball?

The Empire got bored and sent Son Goku to go mop up whatever Drones are left.​​

rattler2

artan42 wrote: »

One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.

Starkiller Base was one of the dumbest ideas ever IMO.

artan42

rattler2 wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

One hyperspace superlaser, split the beam to each Unimatrix, all whilst hidden at the other end of the Galaxy. Problem solved.

Starkiller Base was one of the dumbest ideas ever IMO.

You misspelt 'awsome'. They turned a planet into a sun eating, hyperspace travelling, superweapon.​​

rattler2

I said that it was my OPINION.

artan42

rattler2 wrote: »

I said that it was my OPINION.

I didn't say your opinion was wrong. I merely pointed out you'd misspelt a word.​​