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Science 3-pack proposal

brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
In the various threads around the forum there have been calls for visual upgrades to the Oberth and Nova classes, which is also tied in to requests for a T6 treatment.

Of the various Federation Science Vessels the only ones to not have been updated to T6 are the Oberth, Nova, and Luna. This smells like 3-pack time to me!

T6 Miracle Worker Oberth
T6 Intelligence Nova
T6 Pilot Luna

Each of the ships would come with a piece of equipment that is part of a set, so let's call them 'Science Retrofit' as a place-keeper name.

Science Retrofit Warp Core comes with the Miracle Worker Oberth. It grants +5 bonus to all power levels and it provides additional Auxiliary Power based on the level of hull damage the ship sustains, +1 per 5% to a cap of +20

Science Retrofit Deflector comes with the Intelligence Nova, and it provides Exotic and Control bonuses, as well as bonuses to Deflector abilities. It has a clicky-power called Deflector Pulse which breaks all target locks of enemies, including projectiles, in a 45 degree cone forward of the vessel and any in-use BOff abilities on these targets are put on cooldown.

Science Retrofit Shield comes with the Pilot Luna, and it is an upgrade of the Paratrinic Shield with the ability to automatically rotate shield frequencies as the Rank I Engineering Ability which activates when the shield is below 50% capacity for 15 seconds of every 2 minutes. It greatly aids with a +12.5 bonus to Defense.

2-piece bonus = +5 Hull Regen in combat, +10% out-of-combat
3-Piece bonus = +18 Shield Regen

BOff layouts might be difficult to do without recreating something already existing, but try this on for size:

MWO = Cmdr Sci, Lt.Cmdr Uni/Miracle Worker, Lt. Cmdr Eng, Lieutenant Tac, Lieutenant Sci
IN = Cmdr Sci, Lt.Cmdr Uni/Intelligence, Lt.Cmdr Sci, Lieutenant Tac, Lieutenant Eng
PL= Cmdr Sci, Lt.Cmdr Uni/Intelligence, Lt.Cmdr Tac, Lieutenant Eng, Lieutenant Sci

With this setup all have the potential for three Science BOffs, with the Nova having the possibility of two Lt.Cmdr Sci BOffs. All will have a Cmdr in Science and a dedicated Lt.Cmdr in their secondary field, with a Lt.Cmdr Universal Specialist Station. The two Lieutenants will be whatever the Lt.Cmdr is not, so at least one of each type is represented.

I haven't got traits worked out, but I would focus on evasion and repair, considering that all three are smaller ships in a galaxy filled with, umm, Galaxys.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,156 Community Moderator
    Luna's too big to be a pilot ship. Nova might make more sense.

    Also... What would be the KDF and Romulan equivelents?
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    avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,201 Arc User
    Luna could be a command ship.
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    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Luna could be a command ship.

    This was my thought.

    Oberth could go MW/Intel or MW/Temp.

    Nova could got Intel/Pilot, or MW/Pilot, or Temp/Pilot

    Luna, Command/Intel, or Command/MW, or Command/Temp.

    The set bonus works, but, that would fall more in the split they do, where one piece ends in the lobi store.

    Plus, while the OP is trying to figure traits, should also look the consoles they come with as well.

    The T6 Nova I put together in the Nova thread, can either go MW/Intel or Intel/Pilot. Since it falls in the scout ship range of things.
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    foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,485 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    In the various threads around the forum there have been calls for visual upgrades to the Oberth and Nova classes, which is also tied in to requests for a T6 treatment.

    Of the various Federation Science Vessels the only ones to not have been updated to T6 are the Oberth, Nova, and Luna. This smells like 3-pack time to me!

    T6 Miracle Worker Oberth
    T6 Intelligence Nova
    T6 Pilot Luna

    Each of the ships would come with a piece of equipment that is part of a set, so let's call them 'Science Retrofit' as a place-keeper name.

    Science Retrofit Warp Core comes with the Miracle Worker Oberth. It grants +5 bonus to all power levels and it provides additional Auxiliary Power based on the level of hull damage the ship sustains, +1 per 5% to a cap of +20

    Science Retrofit Deflector comes with the Intelligence Nova, and it provides Exotic and Control bonuses, as well as bonuses to Deflector abilities. It has a clicky-power called Deflector Pulse which breaks all target locks of enemies, including projectiles, in a 45 degree cone forward of the vessel and any in-use BOff abilities on these targets are put on cooldown.

    Science Retrofit Shield comes with the Pilot Luna, and it is an upgrade of the Paratrinic Shield with the ability to automatically rotate shield frequencies as the Rank I Engineering Ability which activates when the shield is below 50% capacity for 15 seconds of every 2 minutes. It greatly aids with a +12.5 bonus to Defense.

    2-piece bonus = +5 Hull Regen in combat, +10% out-of-combat
    3-Piece bonus = +18 Shield Regen

    BOff layouts might be difficult to do without recreating something already existing, but try this on for size:

    MWO = Cmdr Sci, Lt.Cmdr Uni/Miracle Worker, Lt. Cmdr Eng, Lieutenant Tac, Lieutenant Sci
    IN = Cmdr Sci, Lt.Cmdr Uni/Intelligence, Lt.Cmdr Sci, Lieutenant Tac, Lieutenant Eng
    PL= Cmdr Sci, Lt.Cmdr Uni/Intelligence, Lt.Cmdr Tac, Lieutenant Eng, Lieutenant Sci

    With this setup all have the potential for three Science BOffs, with the Nova having the possibility of two Lt.Cmdr Sci BOffs. All will have a Cmdr in Science and a dedicated Lt.Cmdr in their secondary field, with a Lt.Cmdr Universal Specialist Station. The two Lieutenants will be whatever the Lt.Cmdr is not, so at least one of each type is represented.

    I haven't got traits worked out, but I would focus on evasion and repair, considering that all three are smaller ships in a galaxy filled with, umm, Galaxys.

    Those ships have 14 BOFF stations, fleet T6's only have 13, I would drop those lieutenants (one of them) to ensign
    pjxgwS8.jpg
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,460 Community Moderator
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:
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    foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,485 Arc User
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    Dont forget T6 Luna :) though there is no thread for that.

    Yet..... :)
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    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    I suppose if possible we could merge the three into a single thread, considering two of the three threads are about two of the ships contained here. Just not sure if that something that can be done. That's up to the moderators though.
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    avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,201 Arc User
    foxman00 wrote: »
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    Dont forget T6 Luna :) though there is no thread for that.

    Yet..... :)
    Well I did make one many months ago but it died.

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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,460 Community Moderator
    foxman00 wrote: »
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    Dont forget T6 Luna :) though there is no thread for that.

    Yet..... :)


    Great! Another thread. LOL

    trennan wrote: »
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    I suppose if possible we could merge the three into a single thread, considering two of the three threads are about two of the ships contained here. Just not sure if that something that can be done. That's up to the moderators though.


    Well, I definitely don't want to merge @reyan01 's T6 Nova thread. If anyone deserves to have their ship made, it's reyan, and if for no other reason than the dedication and persistence in campaigning for it.
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    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Luna's too big to be a pilot ship. Nova might make more sense.

    Also... What would be the KDF and Romulan equivelents?

    In making Luna a Pilot I was aiming to emphasize the tactical bent of the Luna. It is the fightiest of the Science Vessels. I am open to alternatives, so feel free to suggest away.

    I haven't considered the alternatives for the other factions, primarily because every time I suggest Science Vessels for Rom and KDF the forums explode in outrage.
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Luna could be a command ship.

    Not a bad idea, but that would be pushing into Sci/Cruiser territory and I wanted a Tac focus for the Luna. Ah well, if it works out, go for it.
    foxman00 wrote: »

    Those ships have 14 BOFF stations, fleet T6's only have 13, I would drop those lieutenants (one of them) to ensign

    Ah, power creep, thy stealthy approach and insidious allure hath caught me unawares and turned my mind from the path of righteousness. The last guy on each list could drop to Ensign, or if a double spec is in mind, the dedicated Lt.Cmdr seat could drop to Lt and have a Specialization added to it.
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    Sorry. This one will be off the front page in a day or two, but I didn't want to hijack either of the other two with what is essentially an exercise in brainstorming a wish-list item. I would spend actual money on a T6 Luna and a T6 Hegh'ta, assuming a design that is functional at that level, but those other guys have been pumping the handle on their particular favorites far more energetically than I, so I post my idea here instead of derailing their threads,

    These threads may never come to anything, but then again they might. Long ago I proposed a Joint Alliance Scout Project, and even wrote a short-story like you see when new ships are announced. While my ideas weren't directly used, we do now have an Alliance Scout, along with a series of sci/raider hybrids such as I proposed. While I would hesitate to say I inspired the idea in a developer, (it's a fairly obvious one,) if I did, then it was a net benefit to STO.
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    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    A T6 Chimera already exists. The three ships I proposed are all Science Vessels, and they are the only three such vessels which do not have a T6 version.
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    casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    I like the idea. I'm not much of a "let's make sci ships" idea, but since the Sci ships are far fewer than any other class (are on par with raiders), this is such a good idea to have!
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    I dunno, a bundle of otherwise unrelated ships? Seems untypical for ship packages.

    Not that I am opposed to more Science Ships, and if it gets us a Nova, I would be in. But it just doesn't feel the likely approach.
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    spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,298 Arc User
    casualsto wrote: »
    I like the idea. I'm not much of a "let's make sci ships" idea, but since the Sci ships are far fewer than any other class (are on par with raiders), this is such a good idea to have!
    Well raiders are just a variant of the "escort" architype so it makes sense for there to be fewer of those.

    Science ships are a base architype though (the base ones being "escort", "science ship" and "cruiser" with everything else being variant or mix of these (or their variants).

    That said I think the best way to consider about new ships is not "how to make this OP as possible" but rather "what role could this ship fill, without being OP"
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    questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,412 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    foxman00 wrote: »
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    Dont forget T6 Luna :) though there is no thread for that.

    Yet..... :)


    Great! Another thread. LOL

    trennan wrote: »
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    I suppose if possible we could merge the three into a single thread, considering two of the three threads are about two of the ships contained here. Just not sure if that something that can be done. That's up to the moderators though.


    Well, I definitely don't want to merge @reyan01 's T6 Nova thread. If anyone deserves to have their ship made, it's reyan, and if for no other reason than the dedication and persistence in campaigning for it.

    Wow - Thank you so much! :o:)

    It's probably the easiest to keep all the loonies in one place.. :) (That also includes me..)
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    questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,412 Arc User
    In my mind, they should make it possible to upgrade ANY ship to tier 6. In fact, I once suggested just such a thing.

    While i can agree that in a perfect world that would be preferable, i can see some (understatement) hurdles as to the amount of work involved in that.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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    blitzy4blitzy4 Member Posts: 839 Arc User
    First I'd say switch the Intel and pilot. With all the specialty sensors, the Luna in the books smacked of a intel ship, and the tiny size makes pilot more believable for the Nova. The other thing though, I'd imagine at least the Nova'd be a raider, maybe the oberth, although ideally I'd like to see a new interesting thing for it. The luna, really I'd make like the Crossfield and give it 4/3 to make it different.
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    ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Luna's too big to be a pilot ship. Nova might make more sense.

    Also... What would be the KDF and Romulan equivelents?

    In making Luna a Pilot I was aiming to emphasize the tactical bent of the Luna. It is the fightiest of the Science Vessels. I am open to alternatives, so feel free to suggest away.

    I haven't considered the alternatives for the other factions, primarily because every time I suggest Science Vessels for Rom and KDF the forums explode in outrage.
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Luna could be a command ship.

    Not a bad idea, but that would be pushing into Sci/Cruiser territory and I wanted a Tac focus for the Luna. Ah well, if it works out, go for it.
    foxman00 wrote: »

    Those ships have 14 BOFF stations, fleet T6's only have 13, I would drop those lieutenants (one of them) to ensign

    Ah, power creep, thy stealthy approach and insidious allure hath caught me unawares and turned my mind from the path of righteousness. The last guy on each list could drop to Ensign, or if a double spec is in mind, the dedicated Lt.Cmdr seat could drop to Lt and have a Specialization added to it.
    Ok, so we have a T6 Nova thread. We have a T6 Oberth thread. And now we have T6 Nova and T6 Oberth thread. :unamused:

    Sorry. This one will be off the front page in a day or two, but I didn't want to hijack either of the other two with what is essentially an exercise in brainstorming a wish-list item. I would spend actual money on a T6 Luna and a T6 Hegh'ta, assuming a design that is functional at that level, but those other guys have been pumping the handle on their particular favorites far more energetically than I, so I post my idea here instead of derailing their threads,

    These threads may never come to anything, but then again they might. Long ago I proposed a Joint Alliance Scout Project, and even wrote a short-story like you see when new ships are announced. While my ideas weren't directly used, we do now have an Alliance Scout, along with a series of sci/raider hybrids such as I proposed. While I would hesitate to say I inspired the idea in a developer, (it's a fairly obvious one,) if I did, then it was a net benefit to STO.

    First to what I bolded/italicized. Most of the time, the outrage is BECAUSE people tend to leave out the JH, KDF, or Romulans. Because so many people tend to see only blue, and DON'T consider the other factions/fractions. As you admitted, you didn't consider them either. So what if people pipe up with "if" you suggest sci ships for other factions? At least you'd be shining light on the other factions. And gets people talking. But silence just pushes things down even more.

    I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about DS9, or the JH. I wouldn't know what to suggest for them. But I do know how to come up with a sci-pilot 3 pack pretty easily. Nova, Ha'nom, Hegh'ta. One for Feds, one for Romulans, one for KDF. If you tried throwing around the Luna and the Oberth, you'd have to brainstorm two additional ideas for the Romulans. Two new ones. With KDF, you could probably throw a Ning'tao and Ch'Tang variant in there. Or go with Suqob/Somraw/Puyjaq variants. Always loved the design of the Puyjaq, especially with the weapon mounts. Wouldn't mind getting some more Puyjaq. Same w/ Suqob. :)

    A. Romulans would have a ship again, sci one at that, and a warbird on top of that. And it would be the next step in the "Ha" series of ships to get brought to T6 level(leaving the Ha'feh as the remaining one).
    B. KDF would get a new facelift to an old BoP, hopefully done better than whatever this Vulcan Bayformers Optimus Prime belt buckle is supposed to be.
    C. Feds would gain @reyan01 's dream come true, assuming it doesn't come out looking like plastic again.

    Second, to what I bolded. The Duvqu'/Manticore/Dinaes. All tactical heavy destroyers, all have command seating. Command seating isn't limited to just cruisers, just as the Not'cool battlecruiser has pilot seating.

    Third, to what I italicized. Threads might amount to something, they never might. I do know that if people aren't vocal, things definitely don't get shook up. Look at the diaper blowout that was the original EssTeeDee Operations pack announcement. People spoke up across various communication platforms, and things got changed some.
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    avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,201 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Luna could be a command ship.

    Not a bad idea, but that would be pushing into Sci/Cruiser territory and I wanted a Tac focus for the Luna. Ah well, if it works out, go for it.
    Well to be fair some tactical ships such as the Hestia and Chimera/Manticore have command, I would support it having both tac and command.

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    zerokillcf2011zerokillcf2011 Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    I would say the Nova would be pilot, the Luna should be command (or intel?), and the Oberth should be MW I totally agree with. (Just to not have a MW cruiser) Also sticking to canon on the Oberth, its console should be related to the phase cloak it carried in TNG I would think? But since they can't really put the PHASE part into the game mechanics, I would make it give a stealth and defense bonus passive with the click ability be to make make the next projectile fire non targetable. (reasoning would be STO still adheres generally to the feds NOT having cloaking ships that we didn't see cloak on screen due to relations with the Romulans. So since they DID have the tech (and it was TINY. Riker could carry the dang thing) their solution was to be able to slap it on a torpedo, thus cloaking it.) Imagine a HY torp that you couldn't target? OR just re-launch the bio-neural torp but it actually CLOAKS like it did in voyager?
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    There is some precedent for phase-cloaking like abilities in STO already. I believe the Kar'Fi has an ability like that, and the Sovereign as well. It is of course not doing exactly what phase cloak would do, but it's a reasonable facsimile within the constraints of a game.

    Since the Luna is called "Reconnaissance Class Science Vessel", I can't shake the feeling it should be an Intel ship. But the secondary deflector arrangement also has some similarities to the design in the Command Cruisers, so that would work for me, too.

    I think Nova due to its size fits best for Pilot, but recently I also thought it might be interesting as Miracle Worker, since the Equionox' survival in the Delta Quadrant basically relied in miracle engineering (involving also some pretty nasty enslaving/murdering of alien beings.) And that it could stand up to two Negh'Vars for any amount of time in the Future-Janeway timeline is also bordering on a miracle.
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    lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,843 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Luna's too big to be a pilot ship. Nova might make more sense.

    Also... What would be the KDF and Romulan equivelents?

    Yeah I was gonna say the Nova is made to be a Pilot ship compared to the Luna.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,156 Community Moderator
    but thats 1k days/LTS only, not even a fleet version i believe

    There are fleet variants.
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    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Luna's too big to be a pilot ship. Nova might make more sense.

    Also... What would be the KDF and Romulan equivelents?

    Yeah I was gonna say the Nova is made to be a Pilot ship compared to the Luna.

    The Fleet Nova Retrofit is built as a pure science ship while the Fleet Luna Retrofit has a second Tac BOff (Ens) which is the third Sci BOff (Ens) on Nova. Console layout is similarly biased, with the Nova having a 3Tac, 3Eng, 4Sci configuration and the Luna having a 4Tac, 2Eng, 4Sci configuration. Of the two, Luna is the more tactically oriented, which to me makes it the superior choice for Pilot.

    Pilot ships need not be small. Indeed, the Luna's Turn Rate of 13 is not that far from Nova's 15. Luna may well be the largest of the Pilot ships if it's ever given the conversion, but she is more properly a Frigate class than a Cruiser class in function and handling.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,156 Community Moderator
    The Luna class is not a good choice for pilot maneuvers. That's more fitting for ships the size of the Defiant and Nova. While yes the Luna is more tactical than the Nova, she's also more along the lines of the Intrepid in mission profile as well. A long range explorer.

    Also the larger the ship, the more strain on the hull with tight/quick maneuvers. That's why a ship like the Constellation could pull off the Picard Maneuver, but we NEVER see anything like a Galaxy try it in canon. Too big and too much strain due to mass.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    And yet I can take my T5 Luna into a flat spin in STO to line up the deflector on a target.

    I'm not opposed to altering the lineup I've created, it's just an example. I'm just defending my choice. I'd be happy with a Command version of a Luna, or an Intel Luna, or any other configuration. And Pilot Nova is so very obvious it almost begs the question, why haven't we seen one already?

    What I would really love is a Luna with an Exploration Specialization, which hasn't been made yet. Perhaps it would fit in a new Season Of Exploration, once STO runs out of Discovery stuff to introduce and is still waiting for Picard stuff.
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