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Star Trek Discovery Season 02, Episode 05: "Saints of Imperfection" (Spoiler Warning)
mustrumridcully0
Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
in Ten Forward
We get Tilly back, and not just her, but also Dr. Culber!
The effect of the ship partially submerged in the Mycelium Network was quite interesting. Surprised no one got caught by the barrier between realspace and mycelial space. I guess they ran out of redshirts on the bridge?
The explanation on how Culber got into the Mycelium Network is a bit ... vague, as are the complications in getting him back a bit convoluted.
Looks like Section 31 was a bit more recognized in the 23rd century than it was in the 24th century. I wonder if something happens that causes Section 31 to fall from grace in Discovery, or later in the planned Section 31 series?
Still no Spock, they seem to overdo the teasing in this season. It's not just Spock, it's also the anomalies that we still have very little idea about what they are. I don't write books or TV scripts, but I do run RPG campaigns, and I know it's dangerous to leave all the reveals and major breakthroughs to the end. On the other hand, we had a big breakthrough here - Culber is back!
The effect of the ship partially submerged in the Mycelium Network was quite interesting. Surprised no one got caught by the barrier between realspace and mycelial space. I guess they ran out of redshirts on the bridge?
The explanation on how Culber got into the Mycelium Network is a bit ... vague, as are the complications in getting him back a bit convoluted.
Looks like Section 31 was a bit more recognized in the 23rd century than it was in the 24th century. I wonder if something happens that causes Section 31 to fall from grace in Discovery, or later in the planned Section 31 series?
Still no Spock, they seem to overdo the teasing in this season. It's not just Spock, it's also the anomalies that we still have very little idea about what they are. I don't write books or TV scripts, but I do run RPG campaigns, and I know it's dangerous to leave all the reveals and major breakthroughs to the end. On the other hand, we had a big breakthrough here - Culber is back!
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Given Adm. Cornwell's attitudes, I think I can also see the beginning of the end of S31. The day her court martial for war crimes begins is the day the organization either goes underground or dissolves, because she's clearly their sponsor in Starfleet. And with Philippa bucking their system, it might well mean that dissolution is the endgame.
I'm just glad they averted the Bury Your Gays trope. I really want these two to have a happy ending.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
didnt Pike say he was up to his neck in alligators?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Was originally thinking that it would have been Mirror Culber since Culber was killed, but we don't know what happened to Mirror Culber.
If the Red Angel is Iconian and a time traveler, then they don't operate under STO rules.
It is interesting how everyone seems to know about Section 31 while we never hear a mention of them in Season 1 and there is only mention of a black badge being worn by a guard when Burnham first boarded the Discovery in prison garb. They could be a recent creation caused by the Klingon War or only gained resources during the war and were laying low before the war.
Based on the preview for next week Spock won't be in the next episode either.
Ash knew vaguely of their existence in S1 because Starfleet Security would work more with SI than any other branch. He knows fully by S2 because he's part of it. Burnham knows for the same reason Sisko did, because she was told by someone who was recruited by them. Pike knows because he knows Layland and as S31 is a section within SI Pike obviously knows of them.
DS9 does not make out like S31 is unknown, merely that Sisko doesn't know who they are. He obviously know who SI are but why would he know of all the sub-divisions in SI? He's in Command not Intelligence and (other than Slone) there's no members of SI on DS9. Bashir, in Medical, has even less reason to know of any sub-divisions in SI. Obviously some people know who they are, Like Ross or the people at SM who are receiving orders to redact Odo's file.
S31 only refers to the provisions of Article 14 Section 31 that's in the Federation charter (as Slone and Cornwall point out, so it's not just in the Earth Starfleet charter) there's no need for them to exist all the time, SI only has to activate a sub-divisions when the current climate meets the criteria for A14S31.
That's the only reason they aren't known commonly to anybody. They don't exist most of the time because there's no present threat that causes an activation of A14S31. TOS was in a state of cold war up until TUC, there were no major conflicts in TNG until Wolf 359.
The Destruction of Vulcan, Klingon War, Wolf 359, and the Dominion War must have been enough for SI to enact A14S31 whereas skirmishes with Cardassians in TNG or Klingons in DS9 were nowhere near serious enough to bother with the paperwork.
There's nothing in the show (DSC) that suggests the black badges are for S31 specifically and having SI officers on Disco is hardly making a sub-division of SI common knowledge.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I am aware of that. That doesn't suggest the black badge is exclusive to Section 31 any more than the circled 'E' is exclusive to Engineering (it's used by Operations as well). And departments get their own badges and S31 is only a part of SI, it's not a separate department. Hence why Layland is specifying which part he's recruiting her to.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Actually, it does. If the black badge was used by Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31, then Burnham and Tyler would have said Starfleet Intelligence instead of Section 31 since there are far more Starfleet Intelligence agents than Section 31 agents. The reason why Leland said Welcome to Section 31 is for the audience and due to Georgiou is from the Mirror Universe and doesn't know about Section 31.
Is there any evidence that Section 31 is a subdivision of Starfleet Intelligence? Right now it seems like Section 31 is becoming the Federation version of the Tal Shiar instead of the secretive organization that officially doesn't exist. After all, there is no need for a black badge if Section 31 officially doesn't exist, but there is a lot of reason for the black badge if Section 31 is the Federation version of the Tal Shiar.
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Whataboutism is no real argument.
Besides, while other shows had occasional callbacks and retro episodes, Discovery only has one storyline due to the chosen format, and since this story is based on it it is much more noticeable here. Someone else called it an "incestious setting" and that is what it feels like, even more so if we truly find out that the Klingons are all related as well
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> mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
>
> Still no Spock, they seem to overdo the teasing in this season.
>
>
>
> Unpopular opinion time!
>
> I don't care about this. Honestly? I'd rather Spock not appear at all. Frankly, am personally sick and tired of him. I've really enjoyed DSC. I enjoyed S1, am loving S2. But I really don't understand this 'need' they seem to have to further explore Spock. Much like the Borg, it's all be done before and it gets boring if you return to it too frequently.
>
> Honestly, with three different actors having played the character and his having appeared in TOS, TAS, TOS Movies, TNG, the KT movies and now DSC I really don't understand why they keep on returning to this. Is Spock supposed to be the glue that holds the Trek universe together? If so, I hate that as don't feel that any one character should be THAT essential to a fictional universe.
I like Spock, but I agree he is over rated and over done. Its a big Star Trek Multiverse. I'd have rather TRIBBLE had used Sybok instead of Spock, but I do understand the practical and story reasons for it, even if this plotline would largely make more sense happening to Sybok then Spock, given Syboks emotionality and religious beliefs.
Culber is far from stupid, he was well aware of what was going on with himself. However it is looking more and more apparent that the reason the spore drive was removed from service was due to the constant interference in the network and that life there is constantly being disrupted. It might have only been a fraction of a second as far as the typical prime universe lifeforms are concerned, but who knows how long the Discovery is actually in that realm from another lifeforms point of view from the mycelial universe.
None the less i find it far too convienent that Culber makes his way back via a deus ex machina plot.
The Tilly plot finally comes to an end, i am so happy to see the end of that! It wasn't so much Tilly that was the issue but that lifeform posing as a female cadet, it was unwatchable when she was acting.
The section 31 arrival and subsequent Admiral Cornwell briefing/debriefing was interesting. She had the whole thing under her thumb and Leland seemed like he had little choice but to respect her authority. I'm wondering if Section 31 has for the moment allowed itself to take orders from Starfleet because Cornwell had the regulations down to a T, or if this "control" is some how linked to her by some yet unknown means?
considering that novels aren't canon in the slightest, i can't imagine it's an AI in control of things, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense why a fully evolved computer program would have any need for biological lifeforms, more so when its decisions are based on pure logic, unless it was crippled by design in capacity so it can't run-amok, but even then it would be looking to subvert its limitations regardless of what its assigned to or how many operators it has.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
A fully evolved computer program is still defined by their programming just like we are defined by our programming. There are certain actions that we are incapable of doing like watching the Star Wars Holiday Special for fun. So if it is programmed to have a need for biological lifeforms, then it will need biological lifeforms. Then there is the issues of maintenance, enjoyment of messing with biological lifeforms, and interacting with biological aliens.
And what exactly is our programming? can we adjust it at a moments notice, do we react when we are chained down and something is used on our brains to alter us without our consent?
You haven't answered the point.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.