I died during a ground TFO... Cause: TORPEDO DAMAGE - as the damage log registered. I got hit by a torp on ground... Torpedoes are a strange mystery in this game.
HA! You must've really angered someone above, if they were able to lock onto you from up high, and slap the Snoopy Hand on you with a torpedo shot. I would've paid in good latinum and women to see the scene where a torpedo pancaked you.
Welcome to the world of kinetics and sudden death in STO. Luckily a torp didn't crash through ESD yet... Torpedoes, torpedoes everywhere, hitting for six digits. And when our torps hit npcs, they're like paper planes.
Speak for yourself, mine do a lot more damage than "paper planes".
4. if you think there is a problem, use /combatlog 1, record all the things you're doing. than you could find out what hit and killed you if you really want to and/or you could show us.
without some more informations beside "i got killed by torpedos" its pretty difficult to track down the issue at all
I did all that with screenshots and a combatlog but the bug Engineer was not interested in taking them.
When the bug hit my High Yield Grav torpedo had an average hit of over 200k for none critical damage across an ISA run. Critical was past 300k. Which is why too high for an Eng tank. Not the only oddity during that testing. In the same testing batch but a different run I had a 100% Critical chance across 24 Tricobalt attacks . My base critical was around 25% with no critical boosting powers being used.
I died during a ground TFO... Cause: TORPEDO DAMAGE - as the damage log registered. I got hit by a torp on ground... Torpedoes are a strange mystery in this game.
there are micro-torpedo kit modules - could've been an NPC version of one of those, but i don't know of any NPC group that would have them
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I died during a ground TFO... Cause: TORPEDO DAMAGE - as the damage log registered. I got hit by a torp on ground... Torpedoes are a strange mystery in this game.
there are micro-torpedo kit modules - could've been an NPC version of one of those, but i don't know of any NPC group that would have them
what were you fighting when that popped up?
If it was Orions or Salt Vampires it might have been another player shooting him. Orions and Salt Vampires can force you to target allies.
I died during a ground TFO... Cause: TORPEDO DAMAGE - as the damage log registered. I got hit by a torp on ground... Torpedoes are a strange mystery in this game.
there are micro-torpedo kit modules - could've been an NPC version of one of those, but i don't know of any NPC group that would have them
what were you fighting when that popped up?
If it was Orions or Salt Vampires it might have been another player shooting him. Orions and Salt Vampires can force you to target allies.
It was competitive BCE or Nukara NTTR. None got some confuses or torps.
If it was Binary Circuit... ooh boy... no telling WHAT hit you in there. The boss wave at the end cycles enemy types, and IIRC the invisible platform maze has randomized enemy types.
> @ussvaliant#6064 said: > felisean wrote: » > > niuchacz#7208 wrote: » > > Yesterday in my random pug for planet killer tfo, I was getting hit by this 140+k critical damage few times in a row. It was so annoying. I've no idea why does it happen. Already was about to quit the game in this evening because that was ruining the fun from playing. Like, 140k damage, really? Is it normal at normal difficulty random pug tfo? > > > > > dont get hit by targetable plasma torpedos. you could actually shoot them down to avoid them. so if you get hit by them it might be your own fault > > > > > Explain to me then why having 61% kinetic resistance in ship stats and using Brace for impact/Hazard emitters and Aux to Sif (all give damage resistance ratings) and Emergency power to shields do not mean survival if the Tzenkethi or even Terrans fire at you. The BOP's in Starbase 1 will tear you a new one if the bug crops up and they fire torps with impunity. Not everyone has access to the Invincible starship mastery trait many of the high end dps players run with. > > > Also targetable torpedo's had a major boost a little while ago, they are no longer affected by gravity well or control powers and have high defense where even targeting them rather than spamming fire at will can generate miss miss miss oh TRIBBLE it impacted on my ship. > > Its not the player at fault here there is a considerable miss balance with kinetic damage with Level 65 scaled enemies. > > Which brings me back to my previous post as to why do NPC's need to do critical hits that exceed player hulls and shields combined ?. Its just cheap game mechanics allowing NPC's other than a Boss to vape you. I play PvE not PvP so the feeling of getting ganking by NPC's gets frustrating when you have put the effort into resists.
That's when you even can see what hit you, it's becoming way to often to all of a sudden, BOOMM, you're freaking dead... What? Invisible damage, you go from full hull and shields to DEAD DEAD DEAD, and on normal difficulty, to add more salt to the injury. Usually when I get in a FTO now, and see people get pulverized over and over, and than start leaving, I already know it's one of those. I play on PS4, so I don't know how it is on PC or xbox, but on PS4 normal difficulty more often than not becomes FLAMES OF DEMONIC HELL YOU WILL BE BURNED ALIVE BY SATAN HIMSELF difficulty and by my tone, people can already get the idea of how annoyed I'm getting with this, and not only that the enemies get an absurdly ridiculous amount of damage, they get a ridiculous amount of health also. I have been in a team of all tactical players and in quite good ships, and I being the only engineer in an Intel Dreadnought, they all were getting blown up in their Galaxys Odysseys and Defiants left and right, in the end, no objective was completed, it pretty much were taken everyone to even scratch the little TRIBBLE ships, let alone the Dreadnoughts...And all that in normal difficulty, no rewards only annoyances, now can someone tell me how that's normal? One of my sisters was playing one of the Borg TFOs the other day, and I was watching, right from the start everyone got blown up, one player left right away, the others kept getting blown up until they started leaving too, all of a sudden my sister was left alone, with absolutely no chance to finish even the first stage of the TFO, so she left too, only to get hit by the "leave penalty", now, someone please, honestly tell me how long will a game last, when most of the time it's just irritating the players.
I'm usually the one trying to keep people alive in FTOs and don't really get blown up often, but when I do I get extremely annoyed, because I know it was just the game literally cheating, people might find it fun in getting blown up over and over, but it's not my idea of fun. That's specially why I play on normal difficulty, and even in that difficulty, getting from over 120 hull, plus a ridiculous amount of defense and full shields to 0, and you don't even get to see what hit you, it's just beyond irritating to see the also incredibly irritating "YOU HAVE BEEN DEFEATED" message popping up, ("your ship have been disabled" world probably not be as infuriating) anyway, it makes me I feel like sledgehammer my damn PS4, so might just be better to keep my console and play something else.
Also, people like some elitists I have seen in this threads, are like cancer, all they do is play their illusion of superiority, to the community having valid complaints. Devs need to learn that elitists alone aren't enough to maintain the game, there's a lot of once good games now ruined, some games even dead now, all done by devs ignoring everyone else, and give in to elitism, and their whole: "Get gud noob" or "You doing it wrong" or "It might be something with your build" mentality, like if only them knows everything.
So please, don't ignore this complaints, people who actually love to play the game that are complaining, only to see it fixed so that they can keep playing and investing on the game, otherwise they wouldn't even care to come post the problem
> @ussvaliant#6064 said:
> felisean wrote: »
>
> niuchacz#7208 wrote: »
>
> Yesterday in my random pug for planet killer tfo, I was getting hit by this 140+k critical damage few times in a row. It was so annoying. I've no idea why does it happen. Already was about to quit the game in this evening because that was ruining the fun from playing. Like, 140k damage, really? Is it normal at normal difficulty random pug tfo?
>
>
>
>
> dont get hit by targetable plasma torpedos. you could actually shoot them down to avoid them. so if you get hit by them it might be your own fault
>
>
>
>
> Explain to me then why having 61% kinetic resistance in ship stats and using Brace for impact/Hazard emitters and Aux to Sif (all give damage resistance ratings) and Emergency power to shields do not mean survival if the Tzenkethi or even Terrans fire at you. The BOP's in Starbase 1 will tear you a new one if the bug crops up and they fire torps with impunity. Not everyone has access to the Invincible starship mastery trait many of the high end dps players run with.
>
>
> Also targetable torpedo's had a major boost a little while ago, they are no longer affected by gravity well or control powers and have high defense where even targeting them rather than spamming fire at will can generate miss miss miss oh TRIBBLE it impacted on my ship.
>
> Its not the player at fault here there is a considerable miss balance with kinetic damage with Level 65 scaled enemies.
>
> Which brings me back to my previous post as to why do NPC's need to do critical hits that exceed player hulls and shields combined ?. Its just cheap game mechanics allowing NPC's other than a Boss to vape you. I play PvE not PvP so the feeling of getting ganking by NPC's gets frustrating when you have put the effort into resists.
That's when you even can see what hit you, it's becoming way to often to all of a sudden, BOOMM, you're freaking dead... What? Invisible damage, you go from full hull and shields to DEAD DEAD DEAD, and on normal difficulty, to add more salt to the injury.
Usually when I get in a FTO now, and see people get pulverized over and over, and than start leaving, I already know it's one of those. I play on PS4, so I don't know how it is on PC or xbox, but on PS4 normal difficulty more often than not becomes FLAMES OF DEMONIC HELL YOU WILL BE BURNED ALIVE BY SATAN HIMSELF difficulty and by my tone, people can already get the idea of how annoyed I'm getting with this, and not only that the enemies get an absurdly ridiculous amount of damage, they get a ridiculous amount of health also.
I have been in a team of all tactical players and in quite good ships, and I being the only engineer in an Intel Dreadnought, they all were getting blown up in their Galaxys Odysseys and Defiants left and right, in the end, no objective was completed, it pretty much were taken everyone to even scratch the little TRIBBLE ships, let alone the Dreadnoughts...And all that in normal difficulty, no rewards only annoyances, now can someone tell me how that's normal? One of my sisters was playing one of the Borg TFOs the other day, and I was watching, right from the start everyone got blown up, one player left right away, the others kept getting blown up until they started leaving too, all of a sudden my sister was left alone, with absolutely no chance to finish even the first stage of the TFO, so she left too, only to get hit by the "leave penalty", now, someone please, honestly tell me how long will a game last, when most of the time it's just irritating the players.
I'm usually the one trying to keep people alive in FTOs and don't really get blown up often, but when I do I get extremely annoyed, because I know it was just the game literally cheating, people might find it fun in getting blown up over and over, but it's not my idea of fun. That's specially why I play on normal difficulty, and even in that difficulty, getting from over 120 hull, plus a ridiculous amount of defense and full shields to 0, and you don't even get to see what hit you, it's just beyond irritating to see the also incredibly irritating "YOU HAVE BEEN DEFEATED" message popping up, ("your ship have been disabled" world probably not be as infuriating) anyway, it makes me I feel like sledgehammer my damn PS4, so might just be better to keep my console and play something else.
Also, people like some elitists I have seen in this threads, are like cancer, all they do is play their illusion of superiority, to the community having valid complaints. Devs need to learn that elitists alone aren't enough to maintain the game, there's a lot of once good games now ruined, some games even dead now, all done by devs ignoring everyone else, and give in to elitism, and their whole: "Get gud noob" or "You doing it wrong" or "It might be something with your build" mentality, like if only them knows everything.
So please, don't ignore this complaints, people who actually love to play the game that are complaining, only to see it fixed so that they can keep playing and investing on the game, otherwise they wouldn't even care to come post the problem
create a stoacademy link from your build how it is right now and we could help you to fix stuff there. in addition, we published a lot of builds and guides at sto-league.com. you could join us on discord there too, if you want to talk to us directly. we dont bite normaly
the major problem is, that those problems are just for some people and not for everyone. and without logfiles or screenshots from the ingame damagelog or something like that its pretty difficult to say if it is really bugged or not. so far, everything i saw from screens/logs wasnt a oneshot that killed people but just a bunch of enemies shooting at the same time a lot of torpedos at you. if 50% of the enemies on the map are shooting at you torpedos at the same time, yes that should hurt at least a bit. and the best way is stil to kill the enemies before they could cause too much trouble to be fair
> @felisean said: > alex475#7263 wrote: » > > > @ussvaliant#6064 said: > > felisean wrote: » > > > > niuchacz#7208 wrote: » > > > > Yesterday in my random pug for planet killer tfo, I was getting hit by this 140+k critical damage few times in a row. It was so annoying. I've no idea why does it happen. Already was about to quit the game in this evening because that was ruining the fun from playing. Like, 140k damage, really? Is it normal at normal difficulty random pug tfo? > > > > > > > > > > dont get hit by targetable plasma torpedos. you could actually shoot them down to avoid them. so if you get hit by them it might be your own fault > > > > > > > > > > Explain to me then why having 61% kinetic resistance in ship stats and using Brace for impact/Hazard emitters and Aux to Sif (all give damage resistance ratings) and Emergency power to shields do not mean survival if the Tzenkethi or even Terrans fire at you. The BOP's in Starbase 1 will tear you a new one if the bug crops up and they fire torps with impunity. Not everyone has access to the Invincible starship mastery trait many of the high end dps players run with. > > > > > > Also targetable torpedo's had a major boost a little while ago, they are no longer affected by gravity well or control powers and have high defense where even targeting them rather than spamming fire at will can generate miss miss miss oh TRIBBLE it impacted on my ship. > > > > Its not the player at fault here there is a considerable miss balance with kinetic damage with Level 65 scaled enemies. > > > > Which brings me back to my previous post as to why do NPC's need to do critical hits that exceed player hulls and shields combined ?. Its just cheap game mechanics allowing NPC's other than a Boss to vape you. I play PvE not PvP so the feeling of getting ganking by NPC's gets frustrating when you have put the effort into resists. > > That's when you even can see what hit you, it's becoming way to often to all of a sudden, BOOMM, you're freaking dead... What? Invisible damage, you go from full hull and shields to DEAD DEAD DEAD, and on normal difficulty, to add more salt to the injury. > Usually when I get in a FTO now, and see people get pulverized over and over, and than start leaving, I already know it's one of those. I play on PS4, so I don't know how it is on PC or xbox, but on PS4 normal difficulty more often than not becomes FLAMES OF DEMONIC HELL YOU WILL BE BURNED ALIVE BY SATAN HIMSELF difficulty and by my tone, people can already get the idea of how annoyed I'm getting with this, and not only that the enemies get an absurdly ridiculous amount of damage, they get a ridiculous amount of health also. > I have been in a team of all tactical players and in quite good ships, and I being the only engineer in an Intel Dreadnought, they all were getting blown up in their Galaxys Odysseys and Defiants left and right, in the end, no objective was completed, it pretty much were taken everyone to even scratch the little TRIBBLE ships, let alone the Dreadnoughts...And all that in normal difficulty, no rewards only annoyances, now can someone tell me how that's normal? One of my sisters was playing one of the Borg TFOs the other day, and I was watching, right from the start everyone got blown up, one player left right away, the others kept getting blown up until they started leaving too, all of a sudden my sister was left alone, with absolutely no chance to finish even the first stage of the TFO, so she left too, only to get hit by the "leave penalty", now, someone please, honestly tell me how long will a game last, when most of the time it's just irritating the players. > > I'm usually the one trying to keep people alive in FTOs and don't really get blown up often, but when I do I get extremely annoyed, because I know it was just the game literally cheating, people might find it fun in getting blown up over and over, but it's not my idea of fun. That's specially why I play on normal difficulty, and even in that difficulty, getting from over 120 hull, plus a ridiculous amount of defense and full shields to 0, and you don't even get to see what hit you, it's just beyond irritating to see the also incredibly irritating "YOU HAVE BEEN DEFEATED" message popping up, ("your ship have been disabled" world probably not be as infuriating) anyway, it makes me I feel like sledgehammer my damn PS4, so might just be better to keep my console and play something else. > > Also, people like some elitists I have seen in this threads, are like cancer, all they do is play their illusion of superiority, to the community having valid complaints. Devs need to learn that elitists alone aren't enough to maintain the game, there's a lot of once good games now ruined, some games even dead now, all done by devs ignoring everyone else, and give in to elitism, and their whole: "Get gud noob" or "You doing it wrong" or "It might be something with your build" mentality, like if only them knows everything. > > So please, don't ignore this complaints, people who actually love to play the game that are complaining, only to see it fixed so that they can keep playing and investing on the game, otherwise they wouldn't even care to come post the problem > > > > > create a stoacademy link from your build how it is right now and we could help you to fix stuff there. in addition, we published a lot of builds and guides at sto-league.com. you could join us on discord there too, if you want to talk to us directly. we dont bite normaly > > the major problem is, that those problems are just for some people and not for everyone. and without logfiles or screenshots from the ingame damagelog or something like that its pretty difficult to say if it is really bugged or not. so far, everything i saw from screens/logs wasnt a oneshot that killed people but just a bunch of enemies shooting at the same time a lot of torpedos at you. if 50% of the enemies on the map are shooting at you torpedos at the same time, yes that should hurt at least a bit. and the best way is stil to kill the enemies before they could cause too much trouble to be fair
There it is, just like I mentioned about elitism, straight at judging it's the build or that everyone else must suck at the game. I haven't been here on the forums much other than to report about a saucer separation bug a long time ago (which the bug is still not fixed by the way, and I reported it in 2017)
I've been playing for not that long like PC players, but I have been playing since the game released on PS4, I never had this particular problem with the game, before the recent updates (most specific the level increase update), so that's probably saying something right?. But even if that's not telling much, when the game is working properly, my ships on all my 7 characters, can dish out enough damage and still tank even the Borg and their cheap drains and torps, or the so infamously feared Romulan dreadnoughts, that people gets so freaked out about it, they simply have nothing against my ships, even if some of their slow crappy torps manage to connect. I have spent a lot of time, and even some money, to fine tuning my skill distribution, grinding specific equipments, spending many hours just to get the gear for all of my 7 characters, to get to this point.
So I know it's a selfish and quite a douche move, but I'd rather not share my build, only for someone to change some vanity shield, slap his name on it and call it his own. I have seen people posting silly weird builds on YT already, so I don't care if their builds can dish 900k per single attack, it does not matter if you're dead, and/or can't hit the target the least 10% of the time, much less 100%.
It is a bug, a full team gets blown to pieces over and over in less time than you can blink an eye, much less time to activate any console that in the end wouldn't do jack TRIBBLE either, right at the start of a TFO? Not able to stay alive for more than a second? Much less complete a single objective? That should NEVER happen in the lowest difficulty possible, it doesn't need to be an expert to see that.
If there are people who likes to get instant pulverized in less than a millisecond, good for them, but make it in a different difficulty setting.
For anyone else, fix, balance or whatever the normal difficulty for those who actually wants to have fun with the game, there are I believe three difficulty levels, why make them all the same? Specially since right now, the way the game is messed up with the instant death, the amount of marks for normal difficulty is so miserable compared to the annoyance, makes it not even worth starting the game.
People wouldn't all of a sudden start complaining about the same thing if it wasn't a real problem, is really everyone who sucks, or is it that something happened, that's why people started complaining? I have seen posts about the problem all over the Internet, including Reddit
> @azrael605 said: > It is not eliteism to note the truth that bugs do not always affect everyone. As I have mentioned in this thread I have not experienced this bug at all despite actively hunting for it for months.
Which system do you play on, if you don't mind me asking? Because at least for me, I used to notice it mostly during the weekends, (I even thought it could be something related to servers actually) but anyway, now with how frequently the problem has become, there's absolutely no way you couldn't have experienced it yet, unless it's a PS4 only thing and you play on PC or Xbox, which might not have the problem. That would actually narrow the problem to one specific system. One thing is, I would rather be playing the game, than spend time in coming here just to formulate a lie, that's for sure. I have invested a lot of time and money on the game, I'd much preferred not to be forced to abandon the game, but I tend to have slightly less patience sometimes, when I feel cheated
I also would like to point out that, it's not just a problem specially connected to TFOs, but missions too.
A few weeks ago, one of my sisters was playing one specific mission to obtain a set equipment, everything was fine, but on a third consecutive play through, when the combat part started, she simply couldn't even move and was getting pulverized, so she gave up, went on to do something else, 3 or 4 hours later, she tried to complete the mission again, and there was no problem. So even if we wanted to, I don't think it can be anything else other than a bug
A few weeks ago, one of my sisters was playing one specific mission to obtain a set equipment, everything was fine, but on a third consecutive play through, when the combat part started, she simply couldn't even move and was getting pulverized, so she gave up, went on to do something else, 3 or 4 hours later, she tried to complete the mission again, and there was no problem. So even if we wanted to, I don't think it can be anything else other than a bug
This sounds like a bout of what I call "Lag paralysis" where for some reason your game client isn't synced right and nothing you try to do actually registers. It's a form of bad connection really and usually a temporary thing. I usually don't see it for more than a few minutes at a time.
And seriously? you think your build is special enough to be worth treating it as a state secret? AHAHAHAHAHA!!!
How many people will have to create those threads before it is addressed?
Thing is that we do not know that. PvP issues did not get addressed in 9 years so I would not give my hopes up.
Do I get one shot by torpedo spreads? Yea, on occasion. On some maps more often than on others, in some teams more often than in others.
Do all my toons/builds suffer from it? No, only those which are the most fragile.
Luckily between a glass cannon DPS build and a full PvE tank there are only like half a dozen changes to be done which can already do the trick here!
That’s why he asked for the build.
You can either spend your time making threads in forums and wondering if cryptic tends to it some day or you could simply adjust to it yourself. The changes will not make you invulnerable to torpedo spreads but the number of deaths resulting from them can be reduced below a point where they are annoying.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
[...]
Which system do you play on, if you don't mind me asking? Because at least for me, I used to notice it mostly during the weekends, (I even thought it could be something related to servers actually) but anyway, now with how frequently the problem has become, there's absolutely no way you couldn't have experienced it yet, unless it's a PS4 only thing and you play on PC or Xbox, which might not have the problem. That would actually narrow the problem to one specific system. One thing is, I would rather be playing the game, than spend time in coming here just to formulate a lie, that's for sure. I have invested a lot of time and money on the game, I'd much preferred not to be forced to abandon the game, but I tend to have slightly less patience sometimes, when I feel cheated
[...]
ok i've highlighted one of the most important parts you said so far.
"it happend at the weekends mainly."
so at the weekend usualy more people will play the game.
=> the potential of getting weaker people you play with is higher, just because there are more people around.
=> its more likely to see things like everyone is blowing up in case you're not the person carrying the team
that has nothing to do with elitism or so, its just an observation.
if you dont want to publish your build to everyone, feel free to join us on discord, its linked at sto-league and communicate with me directly. i promise i'm not going to publish your build somewere and just offer my help to improve yourself, nothing else.
and for the 100k torpedos, if thats pvp, yep thats normal. its even possible to hit waaaaaaaaaaay higher than 100k as a player, hell we even saw ~950k enhanced heavy biomolecular torp and temporal device hits
You can either spend your time making threads in forums and wondering if cryptic tends to it some day or you could simply adjust to it yourself. The changes will not make you invulnerable to torpedo spreads but the number of deaths resulting from them can be reduced below a point where they are annoying.
This is really good advice.
In STO, the best way to handle something like this is usually to adapt. Waiting for Cryptic to fix it or in some cases even acknowledge a problem is usually not the most expedient process.
If you don't want to take this advice and publish the build then I hope you take Felisean up on his offer, if anyone can help you it's him.
Either way, rather or not there is a problem with damage, we can help you adapt to mitigate it's effect on you. We're here to help if you want it.
You can either spend your time making threads in forums and wondering if cryptic tends to it some day or you could simply adjust to it yourself. The changes will not make you invulnerable to torpedo spreads but the number of deaths resulting from them can be reduced below a point where they are annoying.
I certainly agree one can adapt and die less often from it, but the bug is also affecting outgoing player damage to the point where I feel like I am cheating. Last night I will playing Elite and killing NPC’s left, right and canter though shields and I was not stacking up zero shield pen or disabling shields. All my Kinetic damage was just bypassing shields and killing in seconds. Not seen the bug that bad in months. Normally its only 1 or 2 shots in every 5 or 6 runs. But that solo run it was almost every shot on every NPC. It was just crazy. Going to see if I can repeat it tonight.
It looked to me like something was going wrong with resistance and the little base bleed though damage was increasing by a large amount enough to kill before I had a chance to dint shields.
Going to reiterate a few points I made earlier. First and foremost, if someone can demonstrate to me that a bug is going on and it is indeed a bug, I will guarantee that it's seen.
As I pointed out previously, there are a ton of factors at play when determining how much damage a torpedo will do to you, such as buffs/debuffs, resistances, are your shields up/down and so on. When you get hit with a torpedo salvo, as alot of enemies like to fire (looking at you terrans), you're not getting hit by a single torpedo, but the combined power of all of them. It may be a single power that launches them, but it's 5 different attacks. If a spread of 5 torpedoes hits you for 200k, that's not just one singular item hitting you for 200k, but 5 separate torpedoes hitting you for 40k each. If you come up against a group of ships that each fire a torpedo salvo of 5 torpedoes at you that hit's you for 600k total, then against you're getting hit by 15 individual attacks. It's no different than when 5 players gang up on a tac cube and waste it several massive hits at once.
As for the massive single hits from singular torpedoes, it can definitely happen if the right conditions are met, however just because it happens doesn't automatically qualify it as a bug. If the foe has alot of buffs or there are alot debuffs on you, then it can also happen.
To qualify as a bug you would need to be able to show something such as the scenario below:
Ship A under normal conditions takes damage amount X when Ship B hits it with a single torpedo or torpedo salvo. However under those conditions it's dealing damage Y when it's supposed to deal damage X.
Also to correct a misconception I saw in an earlier post, not all bugs function the same way and not all bugs will effect all people. Bugs by nature are breaks/issues in the code that cause unintended consequences. Those consequences can be harmless as giving someone a shrunken head, to full on crashing someone's rig. Because of the vast amount of possible computer parts and combinations of said parts, not all bugs will occur for every person. This doesn't mean there is no bug, it simply means that sufficient evidence of the bug has not been presented yet and/or other people simply haven't run into it yet.
If someone can get me logs and evidence of said bug it will be looked at.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Guess it was a ghost torp. Probably following me back from the last ISA played.
You know as funny as that sounds that actually apparently has happened to people in the past. If the Borg shot you with one of their invistorps of doom and it never hit you before you warped out of he map if would follow you to the end of the universe. People have been killed by that bug in the most unlikely of places.
. If the foe has alot of buffs or there are alot debuffs on you, then it can also happen.
Isn't there supposed to be players that strip enemy buffs from them before the team attacks and draws aggro from them? And isn't there supposed to be players that clear or keep debuff off their teams so their attack are maximized as possible?
Or even in Solo play....do players even keep track of enemy buffs? Or what debuffs the enemy is hitting them with??
I am sure it varies with the enemy on the attack.
Or have we created players that only looks at weapons damage output, because of the "Kill Them Before They Kill Me" focus?
And as long as you are reading this, darkbladejk, how does a "Tank" deal with Torpedo Spreads of a 100K or more variety???
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Maybe it would help if we had some idea what the working-as-designed numbers should look like. Normal is somewhere between 150 and 300% of most players and from what I've seen, Advanced is 2-4x that
I've seen 'reasonable' torpedo hits for 15-30K. I have also seen 140K+ normal and 375K on special weapon hits. That does not seem reasonable. I have also frequently seen enemy energy weapons hit for close to 9K when I'm struggling to hit half of that with mk15E and a bunch of boosters.
It also seems from observation that summons follow the same scaling as enemies and are listed as rank 66. My Cardie platforms seem to out-perform my fairly well-equipped dreadnought half of the time.
Something is weird.
as alex mentioned earlier, I have also encountered this in story mode where one time in four, the enemy absolutely crucified me when in the other three times it was no problem at all/barely a challenge.
@darkbladejk could you confirm that the combat log shows spread torpedoes as one attack? I think they actually show as several discreet packages, but I could be mistaken.
enemies do not buff up to any extent that buff-stripping is actually USEFUL...especially not buff-stripping on a two-minute cooldown - maybe if it were only 30 seconds and reduceable, people might use it more in PvE
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
enemies do not buff up to any extent that buff-stripping is actually USEFUL...especially not buff-stripping on a two-minute cooldown - maybe if it were only 30 seconds and reduceable, people might use it more in PvE
Explain the 100k Torpedo Spreads people are complaining about?
According to darkbladejk, they are Enemy buffing themselves in combination with Enemies debuffing the player.
Do you disagree with darkbladejk? He is asking for proof that it is a bug...if it is not a bug...
What is going on??? Can you explain it?
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
. If the foe has alot of buffs or there are alot debuffs on you, then it can also happen.
And as long as you are reading this, darkbladejk, how does a "Tank" deal with Torpedo Spreads of a 100K or more variety???
I frequently deal with torp spreads of 100k. Combination of hull & shield resistances, specialization traits, brace for impact or each one individual as needed. Tactical team, Aux2SIF Engineering team and others to get a spike in my resistances.
There is alot you can do. Plus not flying straight at an enemy group facing you that you know specializes with torp spreads (eg Terrans) helps as well.
Well built ships, tactics, captain experience and watching the enemies buff bars, along with your own and your debuff bar.
Some moderators here have asked for information, damage logs etc. As IF there is a bug, those logs will be helpful with finding them. As if this bug only appears randomly, the more instances that can be logged, the quicker the cause can be tracked done.
However, expect that there is no bug, and your build or tactics could be the cause.
. If the foe has alot of buffs or there are alot debuffs on you, then it can also happen.
And as long as you are reading this, darkbladejk, how does a "Tank" deal with Torpedo Spreads of a 100K or more variety???
I frequently deal with torp spreads of 100k. Combination of hull & shield resistances, specialization traits, brace for impact or each one individual as needed. Tactical team, Aux2SIF Engineering team and others to get a spike in my resistances.
There is alot you can do. Plus not flying straight at an enemy group facing you that you know specializes with torp spreads (eg Terrans) helps as well.
Well built ships, tactics, captain experience and watching the enemies buff bars, along with your own and your debuff bar.
Some moderators here have asked for information, damage logs etc. As IF there is a bug, those logs will be helpful with finding them. As if this bug only appears randomly, the more instances that can be logged, the quicker the cause can be tracked done.
However, expect that there is no bug, and your build or tactics could be the cause.
I suspect it is a bug not a problem with builds. I had one run where one of my torpedo launchers had an average hit of 200k+ per shot none critical and critical hits though the roof as a Tanked Engineer not speced into damage. Another time I hit a cube and myself for 255,000k damage. How does that even happen without a critical with base damage 30k and I have 60%+ resistance? With those resistances shouldn’t I have been hit for under 15k not 255k.
A few hours ago I was in a solo mission and did 1million+ Kinetic damage over 30seconds though shields without any bridge officer powers of note. No buffs, no debuffs from bridge powers the only debuff I have is kemo but that was not used. Both NPC ships died from Kinetic damage with 98% shields up within 30seconds. I do have a 10% shield pen trait slotted but that’s been slotted for years and I have never seen this before. I do all my testing in the same mission against the same 2 ships so I no that is not normal behaviour for my build. 1million damage for me is normal but the fact it bypassed shields is not.
I do wonder if splash damage is bypassing resistance and defence builds? Could it be that if you hit target A with -100% resistance then the raw damage goes up 100% and hits all surrounding targets for that inflated damage? Somehow my 30k is getting boosted to 255k without crits via other player debuffs. Then it splashes onto surrounding targets for 255k effectively bypassing resistance. I guess it would be easy to test with 3 people in PvP. Sit two next to each other, debuff one player and see what damage hits both though I have no one in game to test with as my fleet is dead.
@darkbladejk could you confirm that the combat log shows spread torpedoes as one attack? I think they actually show as several discreet packages, but I could be mistaken.
To borrow from my hypothetical scenario as before, if you have a torpedo salvo that shoots 5 torpedoes, it will show as 5 separate torpedo attacks, but will mark it as being launched by spread 3 as an example. At least that's how I've always understood it to work.
According to darkbladejk, they are Enemy buffing themselves in combination with Enemies debuffing the player.
Do you disagree with darkbladejk? He is asking for proof that it is a bug...if it is not a bug...
Minor clarification on this one. I never said that this potential bug is being caused strictly by enemies being buffed and players debuffed. What I was saying is that's one of the scenarios in which it CAN happen.
Isn't there supposed to be players that strip enemy buffs from them before the team attacks and draws aggro from them? And isn't there supposed to be players that clear or keep debuff off their teams so their attack are maximized as possible?
Or even in Solo play....do players even keep track of enemy buffs? Or what debuffs the enemy is hitting them with??
I am sure it varies with the enemy on the attack.
Or have we created players that only looks at weapons damage output, because of the "Kill Them Before They Kill Me" focus?
And as long as you are reading this, darkbladejk, how does a "Tank" deal with Torpedo Spreads of a 100K or more variety???
Tanking is my specialty in game and something that I've put quite a few hours into testing and perfecting. Tanking and DPS are not mutually exclusive from each other despite what some may wish to think. You can have a great dps ship that can take quite a pounding, and likewise you can have a tank that can dish damage as well as take it. In fact not too long ago I clocked one of my ships at 120k dps while surviving 1.6m damage over the course of the run. I say that not to be airheaded but to drive home my previous point. Before I continue with tank theory there is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I have never ran into any situation outside of pvp where buff stripping is mandatory. it definitely helps if someone can do it, otherwise enemy buffs/debuffs are easy enough to play around. You just have to know what counters what and when to use it.
With that said there are 3 areas I look at when building a tank. Threat generation, damage negation, and damage recovery. Threat generation: how well can this help me draw and/or maintain threat. If you can't keep the enemy's attention then the other 2 areas won't matter as much since you won't get to use them that often. There are several ways to stack up threat generation to the point you won't lose threat unless someone is doing a bajillion dps. An easy way to increase threat output is to increase your damage output, however that may not always be the best way to do it. There are various threat increasing items and powers that can be drawn from as well. Damage negation: This focuses on how much damage you can shake off or flat out ignore up front. In other words, what can you do to reduce incoming damage or flat out ignore it. This could be a straight damage reduction to damage type X, immunities, traits that increase resists, or abilities that stagger damage. With traits and powers we have today, it's possible to resistance cap without ever touching an armor console. This one is pretty straightforward. Damage Recovery: This is the final category. You've gotten the enemy's attention and shaken off/ignored as much damage as possible with damage negation. Now what do you do with the damage you've been forced to eat that's left over? This includes burst healing, heals over time or HoTs, as well as regeneration. What can it do for you to replenish the damage you've taken.
With that outlined your question would fall under Damage Negation primarily with some bits of Damage Recovery sprinkled in. The first thing you can do is make sure you have a good chunk of kinetic damage resistance built into your ship. You can pick up a fair amount of resistances in your skill tree by picking up all 3 of the resistance points in your skill tree. You can also pick up traits like Honored Dead and similar traits that buff resistances. You can also use several temporary boosts from devices like the Subspace Field Modulator and abilities like Brace for Impact. Things like that will give substantial boosts to your resistances which will let you shake off damage. Another thing you want to do when facing kinetic damage is keeping your shields up, or at least the facing getting hit as kinetic damage is typically greatly diminished by hitting the shields.
This means you will want some Damage Recovery in the build, such as Transfer Shield Strength, Science Team, Emergency Power to Shields, being a few examples of possible powers. Shield capacity boosts can help in tanking larger hits as well as hull capacity boosts.
Point being I could keep listing options to use, however it would be much more effective if I knew what your current build looked like and I could tailor some extra survival to your build.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
. If the foe has alot of buffs or there are alot debuffs on you, then it can also happen.
And as long as you are reading this, darkbladejk, how does a "Tank" deal with Torpedo Spreads of a 100K or more variety???
I frequently deal with torp spreads of 100k. Combination of hull & shield resistances, specialization traits, brace for impact or each one individual as needed. Tactical team, Aux2SIF Engineering team and others to get a spike in my resistances.
There is alot you can do. Plus not flying straight at an enemy group facing you that you know specializes with torp spreads (eg Terrans) helps as well.
Well built ships, tactics, captain experience and watching the enemies buff bars, along with your own and your debuff bar.
Some moderators here have asked for information, damage logs etc. As IF there is a bug, those logs will be helpful with finding them. As if this bug only appears randomly, the more instances that can be logged, the quicker the cause can be tracked done.
However, expect that there is no bug, and your build or tactics could be the cause.
I suspect it is a bug not a problem with builds. I had one run where one of my torpedo launchers had an average hit of 200k+ per shot none critical and critical hits though the roof as a Tanked Engineer not speced into damage. Another time I hit a cube and myself for 255,000k damage. How does that even happen without a critical with base damage 30k and I have 60%+ resistance? With those resistances shouldn’t I have been hit for under 15k not 255k.
A few hours ago I was in a solo mission and did 1million+ Kinetic damage over 30seconds though shields without any bridge officer powers of note. No buffs, no debuffs from bridge powers the only debuff I have is kemo but that was not used. Both NPC ships died from Kinetic damage with 98% shields up within 30seconds. I do have a 10% shield pen trait slotted but that’s been slotted for years and I have never seen this before. I do all my testing in the same mission against the same 2 ships so I no that is not normal behaviour for my build. 1million damage for me is normal but the fact it bypassed shields is not.
I do wonder if splash damage is bypassing resistance and defence builds? Could it be that if you hit target A with -100% resistance then the raw damage goes up 100% and hits all surrounding targets for that inflated damage? Somehow my 30k is getting boosted to 255k without crits via other player debuffs. Then it splashes onto surrounding targets for 255k effectively bypassing resistance. I guess it would be easy to test with 3 people in PvP. Sit two next to each other, debuff one player and see what damage hits both though I have no one in game to test with as my fleet is dead.
yes, player torpedos could hit pretty hard, but that has nothing to do with enemy torpedos killing players to be fair. 250k torp hits arent actually that much at all, they are good, but since the max hits we saw back in the days with the temporal device or the enhanced heavy biomolecular torpedo were around 950k damage.. yea
but be careful, some hy torpedos of doom could hit yourself. so if the enemy is directly next to you and you shoot your gravimetric hy3 at that target, you might get killed yourself too
You can either spend your time making threads in forums and wondering if cryptic tends to it some day or you could simply adjust to it yourself. The changes will not make you invulnerable to torpedo spreads but the number of deaths resulting from them can be reduced below a point where they are annoying.
This is really good advice.
In STO, the best way to handle something like this is usually to adapt. Waiting for Cryptic to fix it or in some cases even acknowledge a problem is usually not the most expedient process.
If you don't want to take this advice and publish the build then I hope you take Felisean up on his offer, if anyone can help you it's him.
Either way, rather or not there is a problem with damage, we can help you adapt to mitigate it's effect on you. We're here to help if you want it.
Yeah, a lot of people think they're better than they really are. I've seen a lot of people complain about things that aren't bugs just because they didn't understand certain basic gameplay mechanics. Enemy damage is scaled under the assumption that players have a certain level of resistance to damage. Why? because good players DO have damage resistance. So if you don't have damage resistance, then.... OUCH.
That said there have been some REALLY screwball bugs in the past. One that was stupidly painful was back when something made it so that combining FaW with APB applied APB's DEBUFF to you and not the enemy. It's a bit of a niche thing, but it was common enough to get squashed fast.
enemies do not buff up to any extent that buff-stripping is actually USEFUL...especially not buff-stripping on a two-minute cooldown - maybe if it were only 30 seconds and reduceable, people might use it more in PvE
Enemies don't use as MANY buffs, and most of what they do use has a shorter cooldown than Subnuke, but you can see buff icons when they're prepping things like a torpedo spread. Granted this buff icon might be there for a single second before they fire, but it is there.
. If the foe has alot of buffs or there are alot debuffs on you, then it can also happen.
And as long as you are reading this, darkbladejk, how does a "Tank" deal with Torpedo Spreads of a 100K or more variety???
I frequently deal with torp spreads of 100k. Combination of hull & shield resistances, specialization traits, brace for impact or each one individual as needed. Tactical team, Aux2SIF Engineering team and others to get a spike in my resistances.
There is alot you can do. Plus not flying straight at an enemy group facing you that you know specializes with torp spreads (eg Terrans) helps as well.
A2SIF is a fave of mine nowadays. a long time ago I looked at it and scratched my head trying to imagine how it was useful.... Then I tried it out and saw just how big a difference it made. It's a bigger resist buff than it looks at first and even though the heal isn't huge it's significant. the BEST part is that the CD is so short you can have it up almost all the time.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
When the bug hit my High Yield Grav torpedo had an average hit of over 200k for none critical damage across an ISA run. Critical was past 300k. Which is why too high for an Eng tank. Not the only oddity during that testing. In the same testing batch but a different run I had a 100% Critical chance across 24 Tricobalt attacks . My base critical was around 25% with no critical boosting powers being used.
there are micro-torpedo kit modules - could've been an NPC version of one of those, but i don't know of any NPC group that would have them
what were you fighting when that popped up?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
It was competitive BCE or Nukara NTTR. None got some confuses or torps.
My character Tsin'xing
> felisean wrote: »
>
> niuchacz#7208 wrote: »
>
> Yesterday in my random pug for planet killer tfo, I was getting hit by this 140+k critical damage few times in a row. It was so annoying. I've no idea why does it happen. Already was about to quit the game in this evening because that was ruining the fun from playing. Like, 140k damage, really? Is it normal at normal difficulty random pug tfo?
>
>
>
>
> dont get hit by targetable plasma torpedos. you could actually shoot them down to avoid them. so if you get hit by them it might be your own fault
>
>
>
>
> Explain to me then why having 61% kinetic resistance in ship stats and using Brace for impact/Hazard emitters and Aux to Sif (all give damage resistance ratings) and Emergency power to shields do not mean survival if the Tzenkethi or even Terrans fire at you. The BOP's in Starbase 1 will tear you a new one if the bug crops up and they fire torps with impunity. Not everyone has access to the Invincible starship mastery trait many of the high end dps players run with.
>
>
> Also targetable torpedo's had a major boost a little while ago, they are no longer affected by gravity well or control powers and have high defense where even targeting them rather than spamming fire at will can generate miss miss miss oh TRIBBLE it impacted on my ship.
>
> Its not the player at fault here there is a considerable miss balance with kinetic damage with Level 65 scaled enemies.
>
> Which brings me back to my previous post as to why do NPC's need to do critical hits that exceed player hulls and shields combined ?. Its just cheap game mechanics allowing NPC's other than a Boss to vape you. I play PvE not PvP so the feeling of getting ganking by NPC's gets frustrating when you have put the effort into resists.
That's when you even can see what hit you, it's becoming way to often to all of a sudden, BOOMM, you're freaking dead... What? Invisible damage, you go from full hull and shields to DEAD DEAD DEAD, and on normal difficulty, to add more salt to the injury.
Usually when I get in a FTO now, and see people get pulverized over and over, and than start leaving, I already know it's one of those. I play on PS4, so I don't know how it is on PC or xbox, but on PS4 normal difficulty more often than not becomes FLAMES OF DEMONIC HELL YOU WILL BE BURNED ALIVE BY SATAN HIMSELF difficulty and by my tone, people can already get the idea of how annoyed I'm getting with this, and not only that the enemies get an absurdly ridiculous amount of damage, they get a ridiculous amount of health also.
I have been in a team of all tactical players and in quite good ships, and I being the only engineer in an Intel Dreadnought, they all were getting blown up in their Galaxys Odysseys and Defiants left and right, in the end, no objective was completed, it pretty much were taken everyone to even scratch the little TRIBBLE ships, let alone the Dreadnoughts...And all that in normal difficulty, no rewards only annoyances, now can someone tell me how that's normal? One of my sisters was playing one of the Borg TFOs the other day, and I was watching, right from the start everyone got blown up, one player left right away, the others kept getting blown up until they started leaving too, all of a sudden my sister was left alone, with absolutely no chance to finish even the first stage of the TFO, so she left too, only to get hit by the "leave penalty", now, someone please, honestly tell me how long will a game last, when most of the time it's just irritating the players.
I'm usually the one trying to keep people alive in FTOs and don't really get blown up often, but when I do I get extremely annoyed, because I know it was just the game literally cheating, people might find it fun in getting blown up over and over, but it's not my idea of fun. That's specially why I play on normal difficulty, and even in that difficulty, getting from over 120 hull, plus a ridiculous amount of defense and full shields to 0, and you don't even get to see what hit you, it's just beyond irritating to see the also incredibly irritating "YOU HAVE BEEN DEFEATED" message popping up, ("your ship have been disabled" world probably not be as infuriating) anyway, it makes me I feel like sledgehammer my damn PS4, so might just be better to keep my console and play something else.
Also, people like some elitists I have seen in this threads, are like cancer, all they do is play their illusion of superiority, to the community having valid complaints. Devs need to learn that elitists alone aren't enough to maintain the game, there's a lot of once good games now ruined, some games even dead now, all done by devs ignoring everyone else, and give in to elitism, and their whole: "Get gud noob" or "You doing it wrong" or "It might be something with your build" mentality, like if only them knows everything.
So please, don't ignore this complaints, people who actually love to play the game that are complaining, only to see it fixed so that they can keep playing and investing on the game, otherwise they wouldn't even care to come post the problem
create a stoacademy link from your build how it is right now and we could help you to fix stuff there. in addition, we published a lot of builds and guides at sto-league.com. you could join us on discord there too, if you want to talk to us directly. we dont bite normaly
the major problem is, that those problems are just for some people and not for everyone. and without logfiles or screenshots from the ingame damagelog or something like that its pretty difficult to say if it is really bugged or not. so far, everything i saw from screens/logs wasnt a oneshot that killed people but just a bunch of enemies shooting at the same time a lot of torpedos at you. if 50% of the enemies on the map are shooting at you torpedos at the same time, yes that should hurt at least a bit. and the best way is stil to kill the enemies before they could cause too much trouble to be fair
ingame: @Felisean
> alex475#7263 wrote: »
>
> > @ussvaliant#6064 said:
> > felisean wrote: »
> >
> > niuchacz#7208 wrote: »
> >
> > Yesterday in my random pug for planet killer tfo, I was getting hit by this 140+k critical damage few times in a row. It was so annoying. I've no idea why does it happen. Already was about to quit the game in this evening because that was ruining the fun from playing. Like, 140k damage, really? Is it normal at normal difficulty random pug tfo?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > dont get hit by targetable plasma torpedos. you could actually shoot them down to avoid them. so if you get hit by them it might be your own fault
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Explain to me then why having 61% kinetic resistance in ship stats and using Brace for impact/Hazard emitters and Aux to Sif (all give damage resistance ratings) and Emergency power to shields do not mean survival if the Tzenkethi or even Terrans fire at you. The BOP's in Starbase 1 will tear you a new one if the bug crops up and they fire torps with impunity. Not everyone has access to the Invincible starship mastery trait many of the high end dps players run with.
> >
> >
> > Also targetable torpedo's had a major boost a little while ago, they are no longer affected by gravity well or control powers and have high defense where even targeting them rather than spamming fire at will can generate miss miss miss oh TRIBBLE it impacted on my ship.
> >
> > Its not the player at fault here there is a considerable miss balance with kinetic damage with Level 65 scaled enemies.
> >
> > Which brings me back to my previous post as to why do NPC's need to do critical hits that exceed player hulls and shields combined ?. Its just cheap game mechanics allowing NPC's other than a Boss to vape you. I play PvE not PvP so the feeling of getting ganking by NPC's gets frustrating when you have put the effort into resists.
>
> That's when you even can see what hit you, it's becoming way to often to all of a sudden, BOOMM, you're freaking dead... What? Invisible damage, you go from full hull and shields to DEAD DEAD DEAD, and on normal difficulty, to add more salt to the injury.
> Usually when I get in a FTO now, and see people get pulverized over and over, and than start leaving, I already know it's one of those. I play on PS4, so I don't know how it is on PC or xbox, but on PS4 normal difficulty more often than not becomes FLAMES OF DEMONIC HELL YOU WILL BE BURNED ALIVE BY SATAN HIMSELF difficulty and by my tone, people can already get the idea of how annoyed I'm getting with this, and not only that the enemies get an absurdly ridiculous amount of damage, they get a ridiculous amount of health also.
> I have been in a team of all tactical players and in quite good ships, and I being the only engineer in an Intel Dreadnought, they all were getting blown up in their Galaxys Odysseys and Defiants left and right, in the end, no objective was completed, it pretty much were taken everyone to even scratch the little TRIBBLE ships, let alone the Dreadnoughts...And all that in normal difficulty, no rewards only annoyances, now can someone tell me how that's normal? One of my sisters was playing one of the Borg TFOs the other day, and I was watching, right from the start everyone got blown up, one player left right away, the others kept getting blown up until they started leaving too, all of a sudden my sister was left alone, with absolutely no chance to finish even the first stage of the TFO, so she left too, only to get hit by the "leave penalty", now, someone please, honestly tell me how long will a game last, when most of the time it's just irritating the players.
>
> I'm usually the one trying to keep people alive in FTOs and don't really get blown up often, but when I do I get extremely annoyed, because I know it was just the game literally cheating, people might find it fun in getting blown up over and over, but it's not my idea of fun. That's specially why I play on normal difficulty, and even in that difficulty, getting from over 120 hull, plus a ridiculous amount of defense and full shields to 0, and you don't even get to see what hit you, it's just beyond irritating to see the also incredibly irritating "YOU HAVE BEEN DEFEATED" message popping up, ("your ship have been disabled" world probably not be as infuriating) anyway, it makes me I feel like sledgehammer my damn PS4, so might just be better to keep my console and play something else.
>
> Also, people like some elitists I have seen in this threads, are like cancer, all they do is play their illusion of superiority, to the community having valid complaints. Devs need to learn that elitists alone aren't enough to maintain the game, there's a lot of once good games now ruined, some games even dead now, all done by devs ignoring everyone else, and give in to elitism, and their whole: "Get gud noob" or "You doing it wrong" or "It might be something with your build" mentality, like if only them knows everything.
>
> So please, don't ignore this complaints, people who actually love to play the game that are complaining, only to see it fixed so that they can keep playing and investing on the game, otherwise they wouldn't even care to come post the problem
>
>
>
>
> create a stoacademy link from your build how it is right now and we could help you to fix stuff there. in addition, we published a lot of builds and guides at sto-league.com. you could join us on discord there too, if you want to talk to us directly. we dont bite normaly
>
> the major problem is, that those problems are just for some people and not for everyone. and without logfiles or screenshots from the ingame damagelog or something like that its pretty difficult to say if it is really bugged or not. so far, everything i saw from screens/logs wasnt a oneshot that killed people but just a bunch of enemies shooting at the same time a lot of torpedos at you. if 50% of the enemies on the map are shooting at you torpedos at the same time, yes that should hurt at least a bit. and the best way is stil to kill the enemies before they could cause too much trouble to be fair
There it is, just like I mentioned about elitism, straight at judging it's the build or that everyone else must suck at the game. I haven't been here on the forums much other than to report about a saucer separation bug a long time ago (which the bug is still not fixed by the way, and I reported it in 2017)
I've been playing for not that long like PC players, but I have been playing since the game released on PS4, I never had this particular problem with the game, before the recent updates (most specific the level increase update), so that's probably saying something right?. But even if that's not telling much, when the game is working properly, my ships on all my 7 characters, can dish out enough damage and still tank even the Borg and their cheap drains and torps, or the so infamously feared Romulan dreadnoughts, that people gets so freaked out about it, they simply have nothing against my ships, even if some of their slow crappy torps manage to connect.
I have spent a lot of time, and even some money, to fine tuning my skill distribution, grinding specific equipments, spending many hours just to get the gear for all of my 7 characters, to get to this point.
So I know it's a selfish and quite a douche move, but I'd rather not share my build, only for someone to change some vanity shield, slap his name on it and call it his own. I have seen people posting silly weird builds on YT already, so I don't care if their builds can dish 900k per single attack, it does not matter if you're dead, and/or can't hit the target the least 10% of the time, much less 100%.
It is a bug, a full team gets blown to pieces over and over in less time than you can blink an eye, much less time to activate any console that in the end wouldn't do jack TRIBBLE either, right at the start of a TFO? Not able to stay alive for more than a second? Much less complete a single objective? That should NEVER happen in the lowest difficulty possible, it doesn't need to be an expert to see that.
If there are people who likes to get instant pulverized in less than a millisecond, good for them, but make it in a different difficulty setting.
For anyone else, fix, balance or whatever the normal difficulty for those who actually wants to have fun with the game, there are I believe three difficulty levels, why make them all the same? Specially since right now, the way the game is messed up with the instant death, the amount of marks for normal difficulty is so miserable compared to the annoyance, makes it not even worth starting the game.
People wouldn't all of a sudden start complaining about the same thing if it wasn't a real problem, is really everyone who sucks, or is it that something happened, that's why people started complaining? I have seen posts about the problem all over the Internet, including Reddit
> It is not eliteism to note the truth that bugs do not always affect everyone. As I have mentioned in this thread I have not experienced this bug at all despite actively hunting for it for months.
Which system do you play on, if you don't mind me asking? Because at least for me, I used to notice it mostly during the weekends, (I even thought it could be something related to servers actually) but anyway, now with how frequently the problem has become, there's absolutely no way you couldn't have experienced it yet, unless it's a PS4 only thing and you play on PC or Xbox, which might not have the problem. That would actually narrow the problem to one specific system. One thing is, I would rather be playing the game, than spend time in coming here just to formulate a lie, that's for sure. I have invested a lot of time and money on the game, I'd much preferred not to be forced to abandon the game, but I tend to have slightly less patience sometimes, when I feel cheated
I also would like to point out that, it's not just a problem specially connected to TFOs, but missions too.
A few weeks ago, one of my sisters was playing one specific mission to obtain a set equipment, everything was fine, but on a third consecutive play through, when the combat part started, she simply couldn't even move and was getting pulverized, so she gave up, went on to do something else, 3 or 4 hours later, she tried to complete the mission again, and there was no problem. So even if we wanted to, I don't think it can be anything else other than a bug
And seriously? you think your build is special enough to be worth treating it as a state secret? AHAHAHAHAHA!!!
My character Tsin'xing
Thing is that we do not know that. PvP issues did not get addressed in 9 years so I would not give my hopes up.
Do I get one shot by torpedo spreads? Yea, on occasion. On some maps more often than on others, in some teams more often than in others.
Do all my toons/builds suffer from it? No, only those which are the most fragile.
Luckily between a glass cannon DPS build and a full PvE tank there are only like half a dozen changes to be done which can already do the trick here!
That’s why he asked for the build.
You can either spend your time making threads in forums and wondering if cryptic tends to it some day or you could simply adjust to it yourself. The changes will not make you invulnerable to torpedo spreads but the number of deaths resulting from them can be reduced below a point where they are annoying.
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ok i've highlighted one of the most important parts you said so far.
"it happend at the weekends mainly."
so at the weekend usualy more people will play the game.
=> the potential of getting weaker people you play with is higher, just because there are more people around.
=> its more likely to see things like everyone is blowing up in case you're not the person carrying the team
that has nothing to do with elitism or so, its just an observation.
if you dont want to publish your build to everyone, feel free to join us on discord, its linked at sto-league and communicate with me directly. i promise i'm not going to publish your build somewere and just offer my help to improve yourself, nothing else.
and for the 100k torpedos, if thats pvp, yep thats normal. its even possible to hit waaaaaaaaaaay higher than 100k as a player, hell we even saw ~950k enhanced heavy biomolecular torp and temporal device hits
ingame: @Felisean
This is really good advice.
In STO, the best way to handle something like this is usually to adapt. Waiting for Cryptic to fix it or in some cases even acknowledge a problem is usually not the most expedient process.
If you don't want to take this advice and publish the build then I hope you take Felisean up on his offer, if anyone can help you it's him.
Either way, rather or not there is a problem with damage, we can help you adapt to mitigate it's effect on you. We're here to help if you want it.
It looked to me like something was going wrong with resistance and the little base bleed though damage was increasing by a large amount enough to kill before I had a chance to dint shields.
As I pointed out previously, there are a ton of factors at play when determining how much damage a torpedo will do to you, such as buffs/debuffs, resistances, are your shields up/down and so on. When you get hit with a torpedo salvo, as alot of enemies like to fire (looking at you terrans), you're not getting hit by a single torpedo, but the combined power of all of them. It may be a single power that launches them, but it's 5 different attacks. If a spread of 5 torpedoes hits you for 200k, that's not just one singular item hitting you for 200k, but 5 separate torpedoes hitting you for 40k each. If you come up against a group of ships that each fire a torpedo salvo of 5 torpedoes at you that hit's you for 600k total, then against you're getting hit by 15 individual attacks. It's no different than when 5 players gang up on a tac cube and waste it several massive hits at once.
As for the massive single hits from singular torpedoes, it can definitely happen if the right conditions are met, however just because it happens doesn't automatically qualify it as a bug. If the foe has alot of buffs or there are alot debuffs on you, then it can also happen.
To qualify as a bug you would need to be able to show something such as the scenario below:
Ship A under normal conditions takes damage amount X when Ship B hits it with a single torpedo or torpedo salvo. However under those conditions it's dealing damage Y when it's supposed to deal damage X.
Also to correct a misconception I saw in an earlier post, not all bugs function the same way and not all bugs will effect all people. Bugs by nature are breaks/issues in the code that cause unintended consequences. Those consequences can be harmless as giving someone a shrunken head, to full on crashing someone's rig. Because of the vast amount of possible computer parts and combinations of said parts, not all bugs will occur for every person. This doesn't mean there is no bug, it simply means that sufficient evidence of the bug has not been presented yet and/or other people simply haven't run into it yet.
If someone can get me logs and evidence of said bug it will be looked at.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
You know as funny as that sounds that actually apparently has happened to people in the past. If the Borg shot you with one of their invistorps of doom and it never hit you before you warped out of he map if would follow you to the end of the universe. People have been killed by that bug in the most unlikely of places.
Isn't there supposed to be players that strip enemy buffs from them before the team attacks and draws aggro from them? And isn't there supposed to be players that clear or keep debuff off their teams so their attack are maximized as possible?
Or even in Solo play....do players even keep track of enemy buffs? Or what debuffs the enemy is hitting them with??
I am sure it varies with the enemy on the attack.
Or have we created players that only looks at weapons damage output, because of the "Kill Them Before They Kill Me" focus?
And as long as you are reading this, darkbladejk, how does a "Tank" deal with Torpedo Spreads of a 100K or more variety???
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I've seen 'reasonable' torpedo hits for 15-30K. I have also seen 140K+ normal and 375K on special weapon hits. That does not seem reasonable. I have also frequently seen enemy energy weapons hit for close to 9K when I'm struggling to hit half of that with mk15E and a bunch of boosters.
It also seems from observation that summons follow the same scaling as enemies and are listed as rank 66. My Cardie platforms seem to out-perform my fairly well-equipped dreadnought half of the time.
Something is weird.
as alex mentioned earlier, I have also encountered this in story mode where one time in four, the enemy absolutely crucified me when in the other three times it was no problem at all/barely a challenge.
@darkbladejk could you confirm that the combat log shows spread torpedoes as one attack? I think they actually show as several discreet packages, but I could be mistaken.
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Explain the 100k Torpedo Spreads people are complaining about?
According to darkbladejk, they are Enemy buffing themselves in combination with Enemies debuffing the player.
Do you disagree with darkbladejk? He is asking for proof that it is a bug...if it is not a bug...
What is going on??? Can you explain it?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I frequently deal with torp spreads of 100k. Combination of hull & shield resistances, specialization traits, brace for impact or each one individual as needed. Tactical team, Aux2SIF Engineering team and others to get a spike in my resistances.
There is alot you can do. Plus not flying straight at an enemy group facing you that you know specializes with torp spreads (eg Terrans) helps as well.
Well built ships, tactics, captain experience and watching the enemies buff bars, along with your own and your debuff bar.
Some moderators here have asked for information, damage logs etc. As IF there is a bug, those logs will be helpful with finding them. As if this bug only appears randomly, the more instances that can be logged, the quicker the cause can be tracked done.
However, expect that there is no bug, and your build or tactics could be the cause.
A few hours ago I was in a solo mission and did 1million+ Kinetic damage over 30seconds though shields without any bridge officer powers of note. No buffs, no debuffs from bridge powers the only debuff I have is kemo but that was not used. Both NPC ships died from Kinetic damage with 98% shields up within 30seconds. I do have a 10% shield pen trait slotted but that’s been slotted for years and I have never seen this before. I do all my testing in the same mission against the same 2 ships so I no that is not normal behaviour for my build. 1million damage for me is normal but the fact it bypassed shields is not.
I do wonder if splash damage is bypassing resistance and defence builds? Could it be that if you hit target A with -100% resistance then the raw damage goes up 100% and hits all surrounding targets for that inflated damage? Somehow my 30k is getting boosted to 255k without crits via other player debuffs. Then it splashes onto surrounding targets for 255k effectively bypassing resistance. I guess it would be easy to test with 3 people in PvP. Sit two next to each other, debuff one player and see what damage hits both though I have no one in game to test with as my fleet is dead.
To borrow from my hypothetical scenario as before, if you have a torpedo salvo that shoots 5 torpedoes, it will show as 5 separate torpedo attacks, but will mark it as being launched by spread 3 as an example. At least that's how I've always understood it to work.
Minor clarification on this one. I never said that this potential bug is being caused strictly by enemies being buffed and players debuffed. What I was saying is that's one of the scenarios in which it CAN happen.
Tanking is my specialty in game and something that I've put quite a few hours into testing and perfecting. Tanking and DPS are not mutually exclusive from each other despite what some may wish to think. You can have a great dps ship that can take quite a pounding, and likewise you can have a tank that can dish damage as well as take it. In fact not too long ago I clocked one of my ships at 120k dps while surviving 1.6m damage over the course of the run. I say that not to be airheaded but to drive home my previous point. Before I continue with tank theory there is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I have never ran into any situation outside of pvp where buff stripping is mandatory. it definitely helps if someone can do it, otherwise enemy buffs/debuffs are easy enough to play around. You just have to know what counters what and when to use it.
With that said there are 3 areas I look at when building a tank. Threat generation, damage negation, and damage recovery.
Threat generation: how well can this help me draw and/or maintain threat. If you can't keep the enemy's attention then the other 2 areas won't matter as much since you won't get to use them that often. There are several ways to stack up threat generation to the point you won't lose threat unless someone is doing a bajillion dps. An easy way to increase threat output is to increase your damage output, however that may not always be the best way to do it. There are various threat increasing items and powers that can be drawn from as well.
Damage negation: This focuses on how much damage you can shake off or flat out ignore up front. In other words, what can you do to reduce incoming damage or flat out ignore it. This could be a straight damage reduction to damage type X, immunities, traits that increase resists, or abilities that stagger damage. With traits and powers we have today, it's possible to resistance cap without ever touching an armor console. This one is pretty straightforward.
Damage Recovery: This is the final category. You've gotten the enemy's attention and shaken off/ignored as much damage as possible with damage negation. Now what do you do with the damage you've been forced to eat that's left over? This includes burst healing, heals over time or HoTs, as well as regeneration. What can it do for you to replenish the damage you've taken.
With that outlined your question would fall under Damage Negation primarily with some bits of Damage Recovery sprinkled in. The first thing you can do is make sure you have a good chunk of kinetic damage resistance built into your ship. You can pick up a fair amount of resistances in your skill tree by picking up all 3 of the resistance points in your skill tree. You can also pick up traits like Honored Dead and similar traits that buff resistances. You can also use several temporary boosts from devices like the Subspace Field Modulator and abilities like Brace for Impact. Things like that will give substantial boosts to your resistances which will let you shake off damage. Another thing you want to do when facing kinetic damage is keeping your shields up, or at least the facing getting hit as kinetic damage is typically greatly diminished by hitting the shields.
This means you will want some Damage Recovery in the build, such as Transfer Shield Strength, Science Team, Emergency Power to Shields, being a few examples of possible powers. Shield capacity boosts can help in tanking larger hits as well as hull capacity boosts.
Point being I could keep listing options to use, however it would be much more effective if I knew what your current build looked like and I could tailor some extra survival to your build.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
yes, player torpedos could hit pretty hard, but that has nothing to do with enemy torpedos killing players to be fair. 250k torp hits arent actually that much at all, they are good, but since the max hits we saw back in the days with the temporal device or the enhanced heavy biomolecular torpedo were around 950k damage.. yea
but be careful, some hy torpedos of doom could hit yourself. so if the enemy is directly next to you and you shoot your gravimetric hy3 at that target, you might get killed yourself too
ingame: @Felisean
That said there have been some REALLY screwball bugs in the past. One that was stupidly painful was back when something made it so that combining FaW with APB applied APB's DEBUFF to you and not the enemy. It's a bit of a niche thing, but it was common enough to get squashed fast. Enemies don't use as MANY buffs, and most of what they do use has a shorter cooldown than Subnuke, but you can see buff icons when they're prepping things like a torpedo spread. Granted this buff icon might be there for a single second before they fire, but it is there. A2SIF is a fave of mine nowadays. a long time ago I looked at it and scratched my head trying to imagine how it was useful.... Then I tried it out and saw just how big a difference it made. It's a bigger resist buff than it looks at first and even though the heal isn't huge it's significant. the BEST part is that the CD is so short you can have it up almost all the time.
My character Tsin'xing