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Update on the DSC lawsuit

lazarus51166lazarus51166 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
edited January 11 in Ten Forward
The tl;dr version is that it wasn't laughed out of court and has been allowed to proceed to the discovery phase, no pun intended.



I don't think its going to get very much further than that, but stranger things have happened
Post edited by wingedhussar#7584 on
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  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 3,173 Arc User
    Keep up the fight, yo!

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  • wingedhussar#7584 wingedhussar Member Posts: 63 Community Moderator
    Merged duplicate threads by @lazarus51166 and @smokebailey.
    latest?cb=20171202101458

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  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    Will drag out/settle but doubt much else.
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    The fact that this even got to the discovery phase is pretty unbelievable. I didn't think they were guilty of copying the game...until they opened their damn mouth. Their argument for dismissal of the case made them look guilty as hell as they didn't even address the issue at hand kept going look over there with the you can't trademark a tardigrade (which was not what the lawsuit was about at all). And kept focusing on the few bits where things differed instead of focusing on how they could have both come up with similar stories concurrently. I went from this lawsuit is stupid to umm I think CBS actually did it...because of CBS.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,576 Arc User
    *facedesk*
    Its stupid. Not only that... I had never even HEARD of that game before all this shtako.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    *facedesk*
    Its stupid. Not only that... I had never even HEARD of that game before all this shtako.

    Doesn't matter if YOU heard of the game or not. What matter is if CBS has or not...or if the distribution of the game is wide enough for there to be plausible for CBS to have run into them. And from what the lawsuit says...the answer is yes. Hence why it was not dismissed outright. The other aspect is that their movement to dismiss this case was...well...perplexing to say the least. They could have easily claimed concurrent development with a firm denial of any knoweldge of the game...which if you are innocent or if there isn't some smoking gun somewhere is what you do. But they didn't. They made claims that the case was specifically NOT about. I mean some of the arguments they made...if I was a judge would have been down right insulting because they thought I was that stupid for it have worked. They pointed out specific differences instead of how there could have been concurrent development and how those similarities were just happenstance. Like what they did was what you do when you are guilty as all heck and you are scrambling to cover your behind...badly. Honestly...I didn't think they did it...until that attempt to get the case dismissed.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,623 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    *facedesk*
    Its stupid. Not only that... I had never even HEARD of that game before all this shtako.

    Now I'm wondering if this wasn't just a publicity stunt by Anas Abdin.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,576 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Now I'm wondering if this wasn't just a publicity stunt by Anas Abdin.

    I wonder if it is, backed up by everyone who rages against Discovery.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,212 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    Now I'm wondering if this wasn't just a publicity stunt by Anas Abdin.

    I wonder if it is, backed up by everyone who rages against Discovery.
    Based on available data, this does seem a pretty likely scenario.
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    Now I'm wondering if this wasn't just a publicity stunt by Anas Abdin.

    I wonder if it is, backed up by everyone who rages against Discovery.
    Based on available data, this does seem a pretty likely scenario.

    Based on available data...no. It might have been a valid point when we didn't know as much...but seriously...there are some actual valid points to something shady might have happened. Like I said, their attempt at a dismissal (not trying to get a case dismissed...but the way they went about it) is what you do when you are guilty and you can't come up with a proper lie...which is not even that hard. I mean they wrote essteedee so I can understand how they can be too stupid to come with a believable lie and all...but come on...they had months. Either those lawyers are some of the most stupid lawyers on the face of the earth...or something shady is happening and CBS is just too damn stupid at this point to cover it up properly. I mean even if they did copy the damn game, there is no reason why they should not have gotten this case dismissed from just concurrent development claim. But you know what tanks that claim? When you open with you can't trademark a biological organism...which was NOWHERE in the complaint. They were basically dodgy and not really talking about the ACTUAL complaint that whole hearing. That is fishy as all hell. And it generally doesn't work to boot. Most judges I know kind hate when you try to get clever...especially in rather obvious ways. Oh and if this actually goes to trial...all of that is open for use in the trial. I realize CBS is full of idiots at the moment...but come on...this should never have even gotten to this even if they were 100% guilty.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    The biggest hurdle the game maker now has is to prove that CBS got the ideas from him.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,613 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »
    The biggest hurdle the game maker now has is to prove that CBS got the ideas from him.

    It is more likely that CBS and the indie game developer got the inspiration for the Tardigrade from the recent Cosmos TV series. Neil deGrasse Tyson did say that Tardigrades are so tough they can survive naked in the vacuum of space. So it does make sense for multiple writers to use Tardigrades as a space creature. Also, space creatures need some interesting form of transportation to travel to their next meal.

    Getting inspiration from a popular science show makes far more sense than from an unknown game that the vast majority of people have never heard of until the lawsuit.
  • hawkeyenfo117hawkeyenfo117 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Even The Orville made a tardigrade reference in their first episode, which premiered around the same time as (maybe some days before) Discovery started airing.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,623 Arc User
    Tardigrades (in dormant form, called a "tun") being inhumanly tough to kill has been known for a while: I remember reading about it in Muse magazine in the late '90s or early 2000s.

    Also, the thing about the tardigrade taking on DNA from the fungal cells was borrowed from a 2014 biology paper (which was later proven incorrect: Earth tardigrades actually AREN'T capable of horizontal gene transfer).
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Tardigrades (in dormant form, called a "tun") being inhumanly tough to kill has been known for a while: I remember reading about it in Muse magazine in the late '90s or early 2000s.

    Also, the thing about the tardigrade taking on DNA from the fungal cells was borrowed from a 2014 biology paper (which was later proven incorrect: Earth tardigrades actually AREN'T capable of horizontal gene transfer).

    That's all nice and good...but that was not what the complaint was about. You are falling for what the CBS lawyers were trying to do by obfuscate the actual legal complaint with real world facts. The complaint wasn't that they used the tardigrade or hell even that it was a big blue tardigrade...it was that the tardigrade was used in a very similar manner with a very similar character interacting with it. Or that is the MAIN complaint. There is more in that there is more similarities in the other characters as well. Now, honestly speaking, there are enough differences where concurrent development was quite possible. And if they did do concurrent development, all they would have to do to prove 100% this was the case would be to submit their story development to the judge...in private if they need to for trade secret reasons. That would have instantly gotten the case dismissed. If they for some reason destroyed this...they could have pretty easily argue the point still by going over how their story was developed. But what did they do? They did EXACTLY what you did. Try to toss in science and real world tardigrades to try and obfuscate when that is not relevant to the complaint. Which is why the judge did not toss the case out and moved it into discovery. Seriously, before their attempt to dismiss the case, I was in the it's concurrent development camp...but after...yeah I am actually leaning more towards they did it. Proof of it...no...but it really makes me lean against them being innocent.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    May CBS win this lawsuit.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 3,173 Arc User
    sthe91 wrote: »
    May CBS win this lawsuit.

    I'm hoping for the opposite


    for the LITTLE GUYS to win for once.

    CBS has been so arrogant in this from the start. "We won't sue YOU!" <
    BAKA JERK OFFS!
    I wanna see the big bad, corporations FINALLY get one shove up THEIR you know what's, for a change.

    So I am rooting for this fellow.
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    So...people don't care about truth or justice anymore...k
  • lazarus51166lazarus51166 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...people don't care about truth or justice anymore...k

    The truth is the lawsuit is an absurd joke that should have been laughed out of court on day one. The dev is a guy who got caught stealing the intro from dune word for word for his game and who went back and tweaked several things as well as making statements that made it sound more in line with discovery prior to announcing this lawsuit. He has no business pointing fingers at anybody for stealing anything

    The reality is he has to prove they not only stole the concept but stole it specifically from him, and that they had access to enough of his info to do it. Which he can't. The discovery phase is going to end with the case getting dismissed. At which point he will be fortunate if cbs doesn't get pissy and decide to sue him for defamation
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,623 Arc User
    edited January 11
    > @coldnapalm said:
    > That's all nice and good...but that was not what the complaint was about. You are falling for what the CBS lawyers were trying to do by obfuscate the actual legal complaint with real world facts.

    Nah, I just find the science more interesting than the complaint. :tongue:
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    9MUythl.png
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,752 Arc User
    edited January 11
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...people don't care about truth or justice anymore...k

    No, they don't sadly. It's a sign of the times we live in with the rise of the millennial/snowflake generation.

    Being forwarded to discovery phase is not that big of a deal.
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  • trygvar13trygvar13 Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    *facedesk*
    Its stupid. Not only that... I had never even HEARD of that game before all this shtako.

    I was aware of the game at least a year before TRIBBLE got on the air. I had forgotten all about it until a friend a mine told how TRIBBLE was a rip-off of Dune and Tardigardes. I then went back to look it up and the similarities were staggering. The character has a very similar name, is TRIBBLE and has a black boyfriend, the uniforms are very similar (not Star Trek like at all) and he travels the mycelium network. Really? But the real problem here is the Tardigardes themselves. The real things are microscopic. But in the game they are man-sized. And guess what? This is exactly how they appear in TRIBBLE. And there were apparently no Tardigardes in Fuller's version of TRIBBLE so they were brought in late in production, years after the game had been registered and started production. The developer was not even aware that TRIBBLE had copied him until someone told him so. I never liked this bad parody of Star Trek but that was the nail in the coffin for me. Star Trek died with Enterprise.
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...people don't care about truth or justice anymore...k

    The truth is the lawsuit is an absurd joke that should have been laughed out of court on day one. The dev is a guy who got caught stealing the intro from dune word for word for his game and who went back and tweaked several things as well as making statements that made it sound more in line with discovery prior to announcing this lawsuit. He has no business pointing fingers at anybody for stealing anything

    The reality is he has to prove they not only stole the concept but stole it specifically from him, and that they had access to enough of his info to do it. Which he can't. The discovery phase is going to end with the case getting dismissed. At which point he will be fortunate if cbs doesn't get pissy and decide to sue him for defamation

    So...assuming he did something wrong in the past, you are honestly claiming that HE stole the idea from essteedee?!? When he was PUBLICLY working on the game WAY before the release of essteedee?!? Seriously...that is what you want to imply with that first paragraph. There is exactly ZERO chance that he took the idea from essteedee. Even if he did steal the intro from Dune, that does not mean CBS gets to steal from him.

    While he does have to prove they did steal it from him, he does not have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is not a criminal case...but a civil one. Burden of proof is a lot less lax in these cases. Also unlike in a criminal case, you can actually hold the fact that somebody will not give evidence against them. Like the lawyers for CBS being completely dodgy. In a criminal case, you have to ignore that...in a civil one...yeah you use that to assign fault. And you like many other people in this country have no idea what legal defamation is. There must be LEGAL malice. Legal malice means you must know 100% that what you said was false (good luck proving that from somebody just bring a suit against you). Also there must be damages. Not legal fees...but actual damages. Look, the nuiances of the legal system is pretty damn complex...but the basics are not. Do they not teach these things in civics class anymore? Holy jeebus.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    > @coldnapalm said:
    > That's all nice and good...but that was not what the complaint was about. You are falling for what the CBS lawyers were trying to do by obfuscate the actual legal complaint with real world facts.

    Nah, I just find the science more interesting than the complaint. :tongue:

    Yeah...who wouldn't. But understanding our legal system is important too.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...people don't care about truth or justice anymore...k

    No, they don't sadly. It's a sign of the times we live in with the rise of the millennial/snowflake generation.

    Being forwarded to discovery phase is not that big of a deal.

    Being moved to discovery is a big deal in this case because honestly, getting it dismissed entirely would have been bloody easy for CBS to do. No really. Even if they were guilty as all heck. Like I said, there are enough difference between the two that concurrent development could have been what happened. All CBS had to do was tell a yarn about how they came about the story development in a semi believable manner and the case would have been dropped...like immediately. The game developer goes on making his terrible game...CBS goes on making terrible Trek and that is that. If they are not guilty...it's even easier as they could show various production notes and once again that is that. But no...CBS does the one thing that makes them look guilty as all hell. Does this mean the game dev will win? No. Does this mean CBS did it 100%? Once again no. But it sure LOOKS like it to any juror with any critical thinking skill. I went from this is almost certainly concurrent development and CBS did nothing wrong to humm looks like CBS might have done it from that motion. It was bad...really bad. Luckily for CBS, it seem people these day seem rather incapable of any sort of critical thinking.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,752 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Being moved to discovery is a big deal in this case because honestly, getting it dismissed entirely would have been bloody easy for CBS to do.

    No, it really isn't that big of a deal.

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  • lazarus51166lazarus51166 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
    So...assuming he did something wrong in the past, you are honestly claiming that HE stole the idea from essteedee?!? When he was PUBLICLY working on the game WAY before the release of essteedee?!? Seriously...that is what you want to imply with that first paragraph. There is exactly ZERO chance that he took the idea from essteedee. Even if he did steal the intro from Dune, that does not mean CBS gets to steal from him.

    No, that isn't what i'm saying. I'm saying that he has made deliberate attempts to try to make it look like cbs stole ideas from him. He changed several details retroactively to try to make things more in line with discovery. I'm also saying that he himself is a proven liar and thief of intellectual property, which proves nothing he claims is trustworthy. Particularly when you combine that knowledge with his retroactive changes to the game to try to give himself a reason to sue. The thing about liars is they tend to point fingers and accuse others of doing the things they themselves are guilty of

    In short? I'm saying he is a liar and trying to pull a scam. Likely hoping for a settlement offer
    While he does have to prove they did steal it from him, he does not have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is not a criminal case...but a civil one. Burden of proof is a lot less lax in these cases.

    The burden of proof in this case requires him to prove cbs both had knowledge of the game and deliberately ripped off his game in developing discovery. He can't do that and will never be able to do that. The burden on proof is on HIM to prove these things, not on them to disprove them, and in this case he must absolutely prove both occurred or he has no case.
    Also unlike in a criminal case, you can actually hold the fact that somebody will not give evidence against them. Like the lawyers for CBS being completely dodgy

    lol what? There is nothing 'dodgy' about anything the lawyers did. Do you think cbs - a multi billion dollar company, hires idiots as their legal team? But there very much is quite a bit dodgy about what the dev has been doing
    And you like many other people in this country have no idea what legal defamation is

    Oh really? Thats funny considering i've taken multiple people to court for defamation, and won every time. I guarantee you I have far more experience in that particular area than you do. But by all means, keep telling someone who has successfully taken multiple people to court for defamation, that they don't understand defamation
    There must be LEGAL malice. Legal malice means you must know 100% that what you said was false (good luck proving that from somebody just bring a suit against you)

    No. Malice doesn't mean what you think it means. As far as any court is concerned, attempting to TRIBBLE somebody over in a way that leads to or attempts to lead to your financial gain is more than sufficient malice to take him to court for defamation. I'll say it again - i've done it. It does not require '100%' proving you knew it was false when you made your defamatory statement. That would be absurd and virtually impossible in any case. All cbs has to do is prove he didn't make a reasonable effort to prove what he said was true before he said it. and he didn't. He not only was very quick to make the accusation, he took the steps of altering his own work and made statements to deliberately make people think they ripped him off AND took them to court to hammer in his point.

    In this case, all a court will care about in a defamation suit is whether this case was dismissed, which it will be. Plenty of people have sued for defamation after having a false claim against them dismissed. It happens all the time

    To put it simply, if you're going to accuse a multi billion dollar company of stealing your concept and making money off it, you had better have some pretty strong proof of it, or they can sue you for defamation. Its very much just that simple.
    Also there must be damages. Not legal fees...but actual damages

    Costing you a fortune in legal fees IS damages. That aside, shall we start with the fact that making public accusations to the point of dragging them into court results in significant damage to the reputation of the accused and therefore cost them money as a business? Hint: that alone is legally considered damages and grounds for monetary compensation. You are making it clear you don't know what defamation is or why you can sue people for it
    Look, the nuiances of the legal system is pretty damn complex...but the basics are not

    and the basics are: if you accuse somebody of stealing from you publicly you are giving them grounds for a defamation lawsuit. if you take them to court and lose, you're giving them further grounds, backed up by a court verdict that what you claimed was not true
    Being moved to discovery is a big deal in this case

    No it isn't. Not in the slightest. What it actually means is that the judge is saying: 'you use tartigrades and they use tartigrades and you are making an accusation that they stole stuff from you. now prove they stole from you within x number of days or the case is going to be dismissed on the spot'
    getting it dismissed entirely would have been bloody easy for CBS to do.

    No it wouldn't. If anything it would have violated the developers legal rights to dismiss it on the spot like that. Why? Because a plaintiff has the legal right to attempt to prove their case, no matter how legit the case may or may not be. In this case that means being able to access the development history of discovery, which would contain any such evidence. The developer can't gain access to that information in order to attempt to prove his case on his own, which requires entering the discovery phase, which requires cbs to turn over the relevant information relating to the development process of the series. It got that far because it literally had to
    All CBS had to do was tell a yarn about how they came about the story development in a semi believable manner and the case would have been dropped...like immediately

    Nope, and I just explained why this is not true. Because of the nature of the case, he can't even attempt to prove his case, which is his legal right, without entering the discovery phase to get access to the relevant info
    If they are not guilty...it's even easier as they could show various production notes and once again that is that

    Nope. That would allow them to cherry pick what information was provided to the court. The plaintiff has a legal right to access all relevant information, not just what notes cbs wants to show them at their discretion
    CBS does the one thing that makes them look guilty as all hell

    No it doesn't
    Does this mean CBS did it 100%? Once again no. But it sure LOOKS like it to any juror with any critical thinking skill

    No it doesn't
    It was bad...really bad. Luckily for CBS, it seem people these day seem rather incapable of any sort of critical thinking.

    No it wasn't. and considering what you've claimed so far I wouldn't point fingers about lacking critical thinking skills at anybody
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