rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,584Community Moderator
How many MMOs can say they are running concurrently with an active show?
That I can think of... only two others can make that claim.
Defiance
Star Wars: The Old Republic
However... TOR really can't take advantage of anything going on in any shows or movies because it is set so far back in time from even Episode 1. Defiance tried to be tied in real tight with the show, with events in the game affecting the show and vice versa. Now that Defiance is over, the MMO is kinda left on its own.
STO is actually in a position to take advantage of not just Discovery, but any other content related to any new Trek shows. And they have the means to actually DO it. Why wouldn't they jump at the chance?
You guys gotta remember that while some are very vocal about disliking discovery on the internet, quite a few people also like discovery. And it's just season 1.
In fact the kinds of comments I see from people who dislike discovery actually makes me want to watch discovery and gives me a feeling I'll probably like it.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
You guys gotta remember that while some are very vocal about disliking discovery on the internet, quite a few people also like discovery. And it's just season 1.
In fact the kinds of comments I see from people who dislike discovery actually makes me want to watch discovery and gives me a feeling I'll probably like it.
For me it's always been "judge a show by its own merits, rather then not being the show you had in your imagination". As for Discovery itself, I found it decent enough as did my brother (we're not done with season 1 yet so that could change), however it depends a lot on how feel about the character of of Micheal Burnham as she's very much the focus character of the show so far.
How many MMOs can say they are running concurrently with an active show?
That I can think of... only two others can make that claim.
Defiance
Star Wars: The Old Republic
However... TOR really can't take advantage of anything going on in any shows or movies because it is set so far back in time from even Episode 1. Defiance tried to be tied in real tight with the show, with events in the game affecting the show and vice versa. Now that Defiance is over, the MMO is kinda left on its own.
STO is actually in a position to take advantage of not just Discovery, but any other content related to any new Trek shows. And they have the means to actually DO it. Why wouldn't they jump at the chance?
You guys gotta remember that while some are very vocal about disliking discovery on the internet, quite a few people also like discovery. And it's just season 1.
In fact the kinds of comments I see from people who dislike discovery actually makes me want to watch discovery and gives me a feeling I'll probably like it.
My problem is that Discovery doesn't feel like it is set 10 years before TOS. It would be extremely easy to set Discovery in the late 24th Century or early 25th Century by getting rid of all the name drops and calling the Klingons as some new alien race. This would have removed most of the problems Star Trek fans have with Discovery. Right now, Star Trek fans have to wonder how a certain problem like Discovery Klingons and the Spore Drive get resolved with established canon. Having the Spore Drive in the late 24th Century wouldn't be a problem since sequels are supposed to have new technology not technology that was used for a couple of years and never mentioned again.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,584Community Moderator
Having the Spore Drive in the late 24th Century wouldn't be a problem since sequels are supposed to have new technology not technology that was used for a couple of years and never mentioned again.
Having the Spore Drive in the late 24th Century wouldn't be a problem since sequels are supposed to have new technology not technology that was used for a couple of years and never mentioned again.
*cough*Transwarp*cough*
Transwarp was actually explained away in the "Angel One" episode (IIRC first season), when it was explicitly stated that the warp scale was changed and Excelsior's "Transwarp" became just "Warp".
Personally, I prefer using scientific notation to determine the warp so Warp 1000 would be 1000 times the speed of light while Warp 1E6 would be 1 million times the speed of light. The current warp scale requires a calculator to figure out how fast a ship is going.
Having the Spore Drive in the late 24th Century wouldn't be a problem since sequels are supposed to have new technology not technology that was used for a couple of years and never mentioned again.
*cough*Transwarp*cough*
Transwarp was actually explained away in the "Angel One" episode (IIRC first season), when it was explicitly stated that the warp scale was changed and Excelsior's "Transwarp" became just "Warp".
Personally, I prefer using scientific notation to determine the warp so Warp 1000 would be 1000 times the speed of light while Warp 1E6 would be 1 million times the speed of light. The current warp scale requires a calculator to figure out how fast a ship is going.
It's a bizarre logarithmic curve that makes no sense for any civilization to use. I liked the TOS one better where warp factors were simply a way to express how many times faster than the speed of light you were moving. that infinite velocity nonsense should never have been used in the show.
Having the Spore Drive in the late 24th Century wouldn't be a problem since sequels are supposed to have new technology not technology that was used for a couple of years and never mentioned again.
*cough*Transwarp*cough*
Transwarp was actually explained away in the "Angel One" episode (IIRC first season), when it was explicitly stated that the warp scale was changed and Excelsior's "Transwarp" became just "Warp".
Personally, I prefer using scientific notation to determine the warp so Warp 1000 would be 1000 times the speed of light while Warp 1E6 would be 1 million times the speed of light. The current warp scale requires a calculator to figure out how fast a ship is going.
It's a bizarre logarithmic curve that makes no sense for any civilization to use. I liked the TOS one better where warp factors were simply a way to express how many times faster than the speed of light you were moving. that infinite velocity nonsense should never have been used in the show.
Well, the explanation of the technical manual suggests it is simply based on their particular rule on how the energy you need for warp changes with increasing speeds. Concering the speed to energy consumption, the integer warp factors represent certain plateaus where the efficiency rises again, but drops off again until it reaches the next integer warp factor. And there are only 9 such plateaus.
Warp 8 needs about as much power as Warp ~7.8, so instead of going to warp 7.95, it makes more sense to go to warp 8 - if your drive is capable of that. But past Warp 9, no such drop in energy consumption exists, it steadily increases.
If FTL travel would really work like that, it might make sense for a civilization to use such a scale, particular in an engineering context. But of course, the physics are entirely fictional and thus arbitrary.
If a civilization ends up with a lot of ships being able to go past Warp 9 on a regular basis, it might make more sense to create a new scale. And maybe it might make even more sense all together to just describe speed as multiple of the speed of light.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
But past Warp 9, no such drop in energy consumption exists, it steadily increases.
On the other hand, they just declared 10 as "infinite speed". Which means there's an infinite range between 9 and 10 and the next break point maybe simply hasn't been found yet. Perhaps that's why by AGT, there ARE warp values higher than 10, because those breakpoints got found.
Yeah ,it's possible they discovered there were more such plateaus after all. Or maybe they found other "interesting" mathematical properties that were discovered later and decided to use those as warp factor points (at least post Warp 9).
I think the TNG material suggested there would on a principal basis no more such plateaus, and thus the only next logical integer warp factor would be the infinite velocity one.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
You guys gotta remember that while some are very vocal about disliking discovery on the internet, quite a few people also like discovery. And it's just season 1.
In fact the kinds of comments I see from people who dislike discovery actually makes me want to watch discovery and gives me a feeling I'll probably like it.
For me it's always been "judge a show by its own merits, rather then not being the show you had in your imagination". As for Discovery itself, I found it decent enough as did my brother (we're not done with season 1 yet so that could change), however it depends a lot on how feel about the character of of Micheal Burnham as she's very much the focus character of the show so far.
see, I used that, and came to the opposite conclusion. Instead of holding on to 'Trek nostalgia' I treated it like I did the BSG reboot-as a property into and of itself...
and it came up wanting severely, since the showrunners insisted on shoving callbacks that were poorly timed and poorly justified in my face.
But that wouldn't have been the only cause for my own dislike of the show, nor the shift in the visual arts aspects (Darker lighting, a more 'uniform' uniform aren't that bad and the sfx are pretty.)
Mine came from basically being unable to give a sh*t about the characters, beginning with Michael "Marysue" Burnham.
Ms. Martin-Green is a pretty lady and I've seen her being a decent actress (on "The Walking Dead"), but the character...lacks...character? feels like some 13 or 14 year old's fanfic self-insert?
That, and antagonists that are Khartooney villains in the four-color seventies comic book mode, well...it's just not very good, especially for the money they clearly lavished on it. "Slightly ahead of Battlefield Earth or Waterworld" writing wise (which means it barely beats two of the worst movies of the last 40 some odd years.)
Nailed it.
Yes, Green is a looker, she even resembles my chica, and acts well. BUT, having seen several episodes, Disco has left me underwhelmed. Even saw it with my mother, who is a trek fan, and she said, "This show feels very depressing, and the klingons, they are so UGLY!!!!" The only thing she liked was the Shenzo , and Saru.
Disco lacks substance, and feels more like any other dark, gritty series.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Lt. Philip J. Minns
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,584Community Moderator
Honestly... I don't like Burnham's current hairstyle.
I honestly prefer the hairstyle she had when we first saw her.
Well, all those who haven't watched the whole Season of Disco don't really know what they are talking about. That's just a fact, as many things are only revealed about the characters and the universe later on.
Some of us have watched the whole Season of Discovery and our problems haven't gone away or they have become worse. Discovery had a perfectly good excuse to no longer use the Spore Drive by having Discovery's supply of the spores die off, but they had to go and terraform a planet to make more spores.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,584Community Moderator
Some of us have watched the whole Season of Discovery and our problems haven't gone away or they have become worse. Discovery had a perfectly good excuse to no longer use the Spore Drive by having Discovery's supply of the spores die off, but they had to go and terraform a planet to make more spores.
Starfleet, however, may decide to shut it down. As of right now, there is only one known ship with a Spore Drive, and that is Discovery. I don't see her using it often now. Maybe for emergencies, but right now I think its back to standard Warp Drive. And seeing as how Discovery didn't sit in a drydock facility to dismantle the Spore Drive... she's still got it.
As to why they grew more... at the time they were still at war with the Klingons, and Discovery was a tactical asset with her Spore Drive, and thus was needed to be fully functional. After the war... I think I remember Stamets saying that they weren't going to use it as Starfleet wanted to find a non-human interface, but did state he wouldn't mind having another go again.
In theory... the fact that we don't hear about the Spore Drive in "the future" would indicate that Starfleet was unable to find a non-human interface and shelved the tech. Without a Tartegrade or human infused with Tartegrade DNA to act as a navigator... a Spore Drive is useless for interstellar jumps. Thus... not a viable use of resources. Why bother using an FTL drive that only has an effective range of a couple hundred kilometers?
Some of us have watched the whole Season of Discovery and our problems haven't gone away or they have become worse. Discovery had a perfectly good excuse to no longer use the Spore Drive by having Discovery's supply of the spores die off, but they had to go and terraform a planet to make more spores.
Starfleet, however, may decide to shut it down. As of right now, there is only one known ship with a Spore Drive, and that is Discovery. I don't see her using it often now. Maybe for emergencies, but right now I think its back to standard Warp Drive. And seeing as how Discovery didn't sit in a drydock facility to dismantle the Spore Drive... she's still got it.
As to why they grew more... at the time they were still at war with the Klingons, and Discovery was a tactical asset with her Spore Drive, and thus was needed to be fully functional. After the war... I think I remember Stamets saying that they weren't going to use it as Starfleet wanted to find a non-human interface, but did state he wouldn't mind having another go again.
In theory... the fact that we don't hear about the Spore Drive in "the future" would indicate that Starfleet was unable to find a non-human interface and shelved the tech. Without a Tartegrade or human infused with Tartegrade DNA to act as a navigator... a Spore Drive is useless for interstellar jumps. Thus... not a viable use of resources. Why bother using an FTL drive that only has an effective range of a couple hundred kilometers?
Seriously doubt that the ethics about genetically engineering willing pilots would be a concern with the Dominion War. It is amazing to what lengths an enlightened civilization would go to when their survival is at stake.
Then there is the issue about Section 31. I would not be surprised if they had a fleet of ships equipped with Phased Cloaks and Spore Drives in the 24th Century since they aren't concerned with ethics. If one of their ships accidentally goes to a parallel universe with no way back, then it is a small price to pay for the safety of the Federation. Phased Cloaks and the Spore Drive screams the perfect technologies for a clandestine organization with no ethics. Section 31 has the motive and means to get the Spore Drive technology and perform any medical tests on Stamets to make their own Spore Drive pilots. Of course, this is all based on the assumption that Section 31 exists and not the delusion of a rogue Starfleet agent.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,584Community Moderator
I don't doubt Section 31 will have an interest in the tech. But that is for later seasons of Discovery to handle, and the crew will most likely have to deal with attempts to take things from Discovery. As of right now... the current theory stands.
Starfleet, however, may decide to shut it down. As of right now, there is only one known ship with a Spore Drive, and that is Discovery. I don't see her using it often now.
This isn't really a plausible explanation. Historically, no technology has ever been abandoned merely because its discoverer decided it was "unethical". Once something has been shown to be possible, people will work to replicate it even you refuse to share or use it anymore. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle.
But Star Trek is the story where the idealists won and build a grand and benevolent Galactic Nation.
Phase Cloak worked at least as well as the Mycelium Drive (with less requirements to modify the ship or have any genetically altered personnel), and the Federation (nor Section 31, or Starfleet Intelligence) is not using it during the Dominion War, either. Nor are the Romulans using it, despite having worked on something similar.
In Star Trek, sometimes technology is invented only by very few groups, is not reinvented elsewhere, and can be abandonded to be never used again. Why - That is left as an exercise to the fans.
I think the limitations and drawbacks shown in Discovery already make it plausible that the Federation has to give up on the technology, as cool as it was. You need a genetically modified navigator, and that genetically modified navigator is undergoing strange and unforseeable changes that alter his perception of reality and his clarity of mind. Increased use seems dangerous. If you need to throw out your navigator every 100 jumps for having become catatonic, the spore drive becomes kinda impractical. Especally should it be that it's not enough to just have the genetic makeup, but you also must have the specialized type of knowlege Stamets and maybe Tilly have. You might run out of disposable geniuses quickly, and training people the long way around and then still throwing them away after a few dozens jumps would be a difficult propsition
And of course, using it in the Dominion War isn't done so easily, since your ship must be modified significantly to install a spore drive. I don't think counter-spinning saucers are standard. You need to roll out a completely new ship class (even if it's "just" a retrofit of the Crossfield Class with modern shields, weapons, warp core.
I also think that it's plausible to believe that other galatic nations fail to "steal" the technology. The Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar might be feared, but the Tal Shiar did know nothing about the Pegasus project, and both organization suffered setbacks over time. (The Dominion probably bringing the most significant one.)
So ther cultures might have to invent it the long way around. And I would posit that the Romulans, Cardassians or Klingons tend to be a bit less creative here than the Federation. Quite possible because they are all so militaristic and focus on immediate practical implications - the whole Mycelium Network thing sounds like some weird science topic that has only esotoric uses - until you stumble upon the Spore Drive idea. In short, they migth never get their foundational research far enough to actually see the possibilities.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
That I can think of... only two others can make that claim.
However... TOR really can't take advantage of anything going on in any shows or movies because it is set so far back in time from even Episode 1. Defiance tried to be tied in real tight with the show, with events in the game affecting the show and vice versa. Now that Defiance is over, the MMO is kinda left on its own.
STO is actually in a position to take advantage of not just Discovery, but any other content related to any new Trek shows. And they have the means to actually DO it. Why wouldn't they jump at the chance?
In fact the kinds of comments I see from people who dislike discovery actually makes me want to watch discovery and gives me a feeling I'll probably like it.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
My problem is that Discovery doesn't feel like it is set 10 years before TOS. It would be extremely easy to set Discovery in the late 24th Century or early 25th Century by getting rid of all the name drops and calling the Klingons as some new alien race. This would have removed most of the problems Star Trek fans have with Discovery. Right now, Star Trek fans have to wonder how a certain problem like Discovery Klingons and the Spore Drive get resolved with established canon. Having the Spore Drive in the late 24th Century wouldn't be a problem since sequels are supposed to have new technology not technology that was used for a couple of years and never mentioned again.
*cough*Transwarp*cough*
Personally, I prefer using scientific notation to determine the warp so Warp 1000 would be 1000 times the speed of light while Warp 1E6 would be 1 million times the speed of light. The current warp scale requires a calculator to figure out how fast a ship is going.
My character Tsin'xing
Well, the explanation of the technical manual suggests it is simply based on their particular rule on how the energy you need for warp changes with increasing speeds. Concering the speed to energy consumption, the integer warp factors represent certain plateaus where the efficiency rises again, but drops off again until it reaches the next integer warp factor. And there are only 9 such plateaus.
Warp 8 needs about as much power as Warp ~7.8, so instead of going to warp 7.95, it makes more sense to go to warp 8 - if your drive is capable of that. But past Warp 9, no such drop in energy consumption exists, it steadily increases.
If FTL travel would really work like that, it might make sense for a civilization to use such a scale, particular in an engineering context. But of course, the physics are entirely fictional and thus arbitrary.
If a civilization ends up with a lot of ships being able to go past Warp 9 on a regular basis, it might make more sense to create a new scale. And maybe it might make even more sense all together to just describe speed as multiple of the speed of light.
My character Tsin'xing
I think the TNG material suggested there would on a principal basis no more such plateaus, and thus the only next logical integer warp factor would be the infinite velocity one.
Nailed it.
Yes, Green is a looker, she even resembles my chica, and acts well. BUT, having seen several episodes, Disco has left me underwhelmed. Even saw it with my mother, who is a trek fan, and she said, "This show feels very depressing, and the klingons, they are so UGLY!!!!" The only thing she liked was the Shenzo , and Saru.
Disco lacks substance, and feels more like any other dark, gritty series.
Orville for me, and TOS forever, yo.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I honestly prefer the hairstyle she had when we first saw her.
have to agree with you on that one.
Some of us have watched the whole Season of Discovery and our problems haven't gone away or they have become worse. Discovery had a perfectly good excuse to no longer use the Spore Drive by having Discovery's supply of the spores die off, but they had to go and terraform a planet to make more spores.
Starfleet, however, may decide to shut it down. As of right now, there is only one known ship with a Spore Drive, and that is Discovery. I don't see her using it often now. Maybe for emergencies, but right now I think its back to standard Warp Drive. And seeing as how Discovery didn't sit in a drydock facility to dismantle the Spore Drive... she's still got it.
As to why they grew more... at the time they were still at war with the Klingons, and Discovery was a tactical asset with her Spore Drive, and thus was needed to be fully functional. After the war... I think I remember Stamets saying that they weren't going to use it as Starfleet wanted to find a non-human interface, but did state he wouldn't mind having another go again.
In theory... the fact that we don't hear about the Spore Drive in "the future" would indicate that Starfleet was unable to find a non-human interface and shelved the tech. Without a Tartegrade or human infused with Tartegrade DNA to act as a navigator... a Spore Drive is useless for interstellar jumps. Thus... not a viable use of resources. Why bother using an FTL drive that only has an effective range of a couple hundred kilometers?
Seriously doubt that the ethics about genetically engineering willing pilots would be a concern with the Dominion War. It is amazing to what lengths an enlightened civilization would go to when their survival is at stake.
Then there is the issue about Section 31. I would not be surprised if they had a fleet of ships equipped with Phased Cloaks and Spore Drives in the 24th Century since they aren't concerned with ethics. If one of their ships accidentally goes to a parallel universe with no way back, then it is a small price to pay for the safety of the Federation. Phased Cloaks and the Spore Drive screams the perfect technologies for a clandestine organization with no ethics. Section 31 has the motive and means to get the Spore Drive technology and perform any medical tests on Stamets to make their own Spore Drive pilots. Of course, this is all based on the assumption that Section 31 exists and not the delusion of a rogue Starfleet agent.
I have to agree as well the series hairstyle looks like her hairstylist was drunk while doing her hair. Even her "vulcan" hair style look better.
Phase Cloak worked at least as well as the Mycelium Drive (with less requirements to modify the ship or have any genetically altered personnel), and the Federation (nor Section 31, or Starfleet Intelligence) is not using it during the Dominion War, either. Nor are the Romulans using it, despite having worked on something similar.
In Star Trek, sometimes technology is invented only by very few groups, is not reinvented elsewhere, and can be abandonded to be never used again. Why - That is left as an exercise to the fans.
I think the limitations and drawbacks shown in Discovery already make it plausible that the Federation has to give up on the technology, as cool as it was. You need a genetically modified navigator, and that genetically modified navigator is undergoing strange and unforseeable changes that alter his perception of reality and his clarity of mind. Increased use seems dangerous. If you need to throw out your navigator every 100 jumps for having become catatonic, the spore drive becomes kinda impractical. Especally should it be that it's not enough to just have the genetic makeup, but you also must have the specialized type of knowlege Stamets and maybe Tilly have. You might run out of disposable geniuses quickly, and training people the long way around and then still throwing them away after a few dozens jumps would be a difficult propsition
And of course, using it in the Dominion War isn't done so easily, since your ship must be modified significantly to install a spore drive. I don't think counter-spinning saucers are standard.
I also think that it's plausible to believe that other galatic nations fail to "steal" the technology. The Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar might be feared, but the Tal Shiar did know nothing about the Pegasus project, and both organization suffered setbacks over time. (The Dominion probably bringing the most significant one.)
So ther cultures might have to invent it the long way around. And I would posit that the Romulans, Cardassians or Klingons tend to be a bit less creative here than the Federation. Quite possible because they are all so militaristic and focus on immediate practical implications - the whole Mycelium Network thing sounds like some weird science topic that has only esotoric uses - until you stumble upon the Spore Drive idea. In short, they migth never get their foundational research far enough to actually see the possibilities.