As stated in the Patch Notes for today, Federation-aligned Jem'Hadar characters who had access to "certain" Federation uniforms have had that access removed.
This is why I created a bunch last night, any costumes created before the patch will continue to have the restricted items forever as long as the costumes are not edited.
I'll remind you that Odo created his own unique breed of Jem'Hadar, so there's no reason he couldn't do the same with Vorta. For whatever reason, he could have decided to make an intermediate step between the two, a Captain sort who was a combat leader over Jem'Hadar subordinates and under true Vorta overseers. Such a story excuse could be made to give players what they asked for, considering there is at least some demand for playable Vorta. This is fiction, after all, there are few obstacles that creative writing cannot overcome.
Assuming he did more than just give them a bit more free will than the baseline to allow them to have better judgement based on available information on hand. After all... Odo is still a bit of an outsider among the Founders because he was from the Alpha Quadrant. Yes he got his own fleet, and Loriss 4 is willing to question even Weyoun, but it would be no different than any other species who is confronted with information that contradicts what they have been told.
Look at the Jaffa in Stargate. They started as totally loyal slaves to the Goa'uld, and also dependant on the Goa'uld for their continued existance because they had to rely on young Goa'uld symbiotes to keep them healthy by virtue of how the Jaffa were originally engineered from base humans. But they started learning more and more and started rebelling more and more. And with OUTSIDE help they were able to find an alternative to having to have a symbiote in their gut. The Jem'Hadar are somewhat in the same position as the Jaffa, only they are reliant on the Founders, and the Vorta in turn, for Ketracel White.
Now... is it possible that the Jem'Hadar can find their own counter to this variant of the Lycine Contengency? Yes. HOWEVER... the fact that they are essentially a single gender species with no means of reproduction makes them totally dependant on the Dominion to even continue AS a species.
> @tyler002 said: > I'm bummed that I can't use the Starfleet Uniform on the Vanguard Boffs on my Federation characters, but it's not enough of an issue to stop me playing a Jem'Hadar. > > Neither is the lack of female ones, despite the fact that I'd probably play one if I could. While canon never said female Jem'Hadar didn't exist in the past, it was quite explicit that there certainly aren't any in the present day.
That absolutely bites that fed characters can’t use fed uniforms on vanguard buffs. I had one fed character in enterprise maco gear, as well as my jem’hadar boffs. They looked pretty snazzy. Also I put the later season ds9 uniforms on another fed character and jem’hadar boffs. They also looked snazzy. I haven’t gone on yet today. Hoping this wasn’t the case. Oh well.
I am furious that the Cryptic Devs decided to reject the use of female Jem'Hadars and Vortas for a new recruitment event....and covering this with dubious excuses. By not coming forward with a reasonable explanation.
And it hurts me that I (and other women and girls) have to put up with this lack of empathy by men in a video game about Star Trek. Repeat: STAR TREK!!! Why can't we have a way to express who we are = women.
I am lucky to have a very supportive Fleet Leader...he told me I would be waiting forever on the dweebs at Cryptic to get it right. And to use my creativity to go my own way.
Um fron the DS9 series itself - the 'Jem Hadr' race does not have females. The Founders genetically created the race and all Jem Hadr are grown in vats (and experience accelerated growth (they grow to full maturity in a matter of days.) If you don't like that aspect complain to the DS9 series producers and writers (like Ronald D. Moore).
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I am furious that the Cryptic Devs decided to reject the use of female Jem'Hadars and Vortas for a new recruitment event....and covering this with dubious excuses. By not coming forward with a reasonable explanation.
And it hurts me that I (and other women and girls) have to put up with this lack of empathy by men in a video game about Star Trek. Repeat: STAR TREK!!! Why can't we have a way to express who we are = women.
I am lucky to have a very supportive Fleet Leader...he told me I would be waiting forever on the dweebs at Cryptic to get it right. And to use my creativity to go my own way.
Um fron the DS9 series itself - the 'Jem Hadr' race does not have females. The Founders genetically created the race and all Jem Hadr are grown in vats (and experience accelerated growth (they grow to full maturity in a matter of days.) If you don't like that aspect complain to the DS9 series producers and writers (like Ronald D. Moore).
According to Robert Wolfe (one of the writers involved with the Jem'Hadar), they apparently weren't created by the Founders but were modified from an existing species the same as the Vorta. They just phased out the females and neutered the males.
Pity the origins of the Jem'Hadar never made it onscreen, would be interesting to see if that was what they went with for the final product.
Jem Hadar can never be female. However Vorta can. and they didnt give us that option.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I can see the utility of a Vanguard Vorta so to speak, like a general leading from the front lines. Engineered to be in the trenches with the Jem'Hadar given Odo's respect and affection for the Solids. I would however see them as having a melee combat handicap, but balanced with improving their eyesight with Augmented equipment. Restricted short range weapon skills even, but a Dominion Sniper or Compression Rifle or the Crafted Physical Damage Rifle. Using the technology involved in Sniper rifles could compensate for their poor natural vision.
Then add a few Inspirational and leadership type traits.
As for the LTS species, I really hope they do Liberated Jem'Hadar, or Liberated Vorta, even though I don't have LTS.
Borg assimilation and contact with Federation databases, would have made the Borg aware of the Dominion. I'm sure the Borg would like to have assimiliated Jem Hadar birthing pods and other Dominion bio-technology.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
Ok, not gonna touch the 'entitlement' argument that's brewing here...
However, I do think Cryptic may have overdone it a bit here, I looked at my Jem's tailor options and I'm officially disappointed. Even cross-faction uniforms like the Intel one isn't available. Which is a real shame as that is one of my favorites that all of my characters have at least one saved costume of.
I can understand limiting the faction-specific items, like traditional Starfleet uniforms and such. But even the cross-faction ones?
Not cool.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,561Community Moderator
I think its possible that the cross faction outfits were unintentional.
> @darthmeow504 said:
> orion0029 wrote: »
>
> Ok, not gonna touch the 'entitlement' argument that's brewing here...
>
> However, I do think Cryptic may have overdone it a bit here, I looked at my Jem's tailor options and I'm officially disappointed. Even cross-faction uniforms like the Intel one isn't available. Which is a real shame as that is one of my favorites that all of my characters have at least one saved costume of.
>
> I can understand limiting the faction-specific items, like traditional Starfleet uniforms and such. But even the cross-faction ones?
>
> Not cool.
>
>
>
>
> No entitlement here, I'm telling the developers what I am willing to pay for under the presumption they want my money. In fact, I'm letting them know what I was in fact planning to buy right up until I found out they were removing it from the game. Again, I presume they want me to spend my Zen so I'm being a good customer and telling them what I want to spend it on.
No you're telling them change things create things that were never in the show ever because I want them that way and it doesn't matter what anybody else says about it I want them that way that's what you're telling them.
Couldn't the same be said about starship customization? Or uniform customization in general? Or non-traditional boffs? All of that, in various degrees, was not part of the shows. Arguing canon in a game designed to advance it 30+ years into the future is not really a valid argument when the game is full of canon disparity.
The only real valid argument for the uniform loss, and no female Jem-Hadar is "CBS/Paramount said no". The rest is easily disputed by the evidence already given in the years the game has been released.
> @ranvage said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> > @darthmeow504 said:
> > orion0029 wrote: »
> >
> > Ok, not gonna touch the 'entitlement' argument that's brewing here...
> >
> > However, I do think Cryptic may have overdone it a bit here, I looked at my Jem's tailor options and I'm officially disappointed. Even cross-faction uniforms like the Intel one isn't available. Which is a real shame as that is one of my favorites that all of my characters have at least one saved costume of.
> >
> > I can understand limiting the faction-specific items, like traditional Starfleet uniforms and such. But even the cross-faction ones?
> >
> > Not cool.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No entitlement here, I'm telling the developers what I am willing to pay for under the presumption they want my money. In fact, I'm letting them know what I was in fact planning to buy right up until I found out they were removing it from the game. Again, I presume they want me to spend my Zen so I'm being a good customer and telling them what I want to spend it on.
>
> No you're telling them change things create things that were never in the show ever because I want them that way and it doesn't matter what anybody else says about it I want them that way that's what you're telling them.
>
>
>
>
> Couldn't the same be said about starship customization? Or uniform customization in general? Or non-traditional boffs? All of that, in various degrees, was not part of the shows. Arguing canon in a game designed to advance it 30+ years into the future is not really a valid argument when the game is full of canon disparity.
>
> The only real valid argument for the uniform loss, and no female Jem-Hadar is "CBS/Paramount said no". The rest is easily disputed by the evidence already given in the years the game has been released.
No that is not "the only real valid argument", it is the only one needed, but its far from the only one that exists. As for "non traditional Boffs" not being canon I guess the name Seven of Nine is unfamiliar to you.
Seven being a "various degree", like I said. Heck, same would be said of Worf with TNG came out. But even in canon you can argue that as the series progressed over the years, things changed. So the argument of Odo allowing female Jem-Hadar is perfectly ok, based on what we've seen in the series' themselves. It's a game world set 30+ years after the last canon series, unless you're a Paramount exec, what reason could a person have to invalidate that change, but be ok with the uniform flexibility?
> And it hurts me that I (and other women and girls) have to put up with this lack of empathy by men in a video game about Star Trek. Repeat: STAR TREK!!! Why can't we have a way to express who we are = women. >
Sorry, you lost all credibility when you tried to make this a gender issue, and to accuse Cryptic of somehow stifling women is quite frankly offensive.
So weird, choosing an exclusively male species(or male “looking”), then complaining about not being able to give them a sex change. Why choose a male race if you don’t want a male character? That is a big part of who they are. I don’t understand the desire to take away primary traits of people and make everyone generic.
If there was an Amazonian faction, I wouldn’t be looking anywhere near them to make a male.
Kind of disrespectful to the race too, frankly. Why not try and remove their horns too. Or make them pacifists. Then they’d be barely recognizable.
I am furious that the Cryptic Devs decided to reject the use of female Jem'Hadars and Vortas for a new recruitment event....and covering this with dubious excuses. By not coming forward with a reasonable explanation.
And it hurts me that I (and other women and girls) have to put up with this lack of empathy by men in a video game about Star Trek. Repeat: STAR TREK!!! Why can't we have a way to express who we are = women.
I still feel eminently awkward, running around as a Jem male. But Jem aren't really male, actually (yes, despite what the tailor says). And, in all fairness to Cryptic, I knew there wouldn't be female Jems to play as. Had it been possible, I would have created a female Vorta.
And removing all faction-aligned costume options, that's a bit of a douche move, Cryptic. Seriously; you didn't do that for Roms either, did ya?!
> And it hurts me that I (and other women and girls) have to put up with this lack of empathy by men in a video game about Star Trek. Repeat: STAR TREK!!! Why can't we have a way to express who we are = women.
>
Sorry, you lost all credibility when you tried to make this a gender issue, and to accuse Cryptic of somehow stifling women is quite frankly offensive.
There IS still the issue of female Embassy boffs (with semi-SRO) performing less than their male counterparts. That really *was* a bit offensive. But demanding female Jems, when there never were any in the show, that's just silly, even for me.
oh waaaaa they made fed'hadar just like the KDF'hadar someone pass me a torch and pitchfork!
also for those whining about the lack of fem'hadar.... play with the gorram sliders... you can make seriously feminine looking characters... they specifically opened up the slider options for this reason. The devs also stated they originally tried removing the whole male/female thing entirely for them since they are neuter but it broke STO.
wait they actually did it, alright I'm a little impressed I didn't think they had the spine to tell feds no. I give it a week or two before the add it back. the real question is if they'll add the kdf stuff for kdf jem'hadars when they do. probably not.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
> And it hurts me that I (and other women and girls) have to put up with this lack of empathy by men in a video game about Star Trek. Repeat: STAR TREK!!! Why can't we have a way to express who we are = women.
>
Sorry, you lost all credibility when you tried to make this a gender issue, and to accuse Cryptic of somehow stifling women is quite frankly offensive.
There IS still the issue of female Embassy boffs (with semi-SRO) performing less than their male counterparts. That really *was* a bit offensive. But demanding female Jems, when there never were any in the show, that's just silly, even for me.
The embassy boffs' traits were randomly generated (as all generic boffs' traits are). They all have the same amount of basic, normal and superior traits matching their color. That some players decided SRO is the only thing that matters is their problem. That only one boff in the list happened to win the "SRO lottery" is random chance. And that this one boff happened to be the blue male tac, is not "offensive" in the slightest.
I really wish people hadn't dragged in the silly "female jem'hadar" argument into this thread, it has spoiled any chance of a proper discussion of the actual issue of the clothes restriction.
wait they actually did it, alright I'm a little impressed I didn't think they had the spine to tell feds no. I give it a week or two before the add it back. the real question is if they'll add the kdf stuff for kdf jem'hadars when they do. probably not.
They totally should do exactly that. Then give the same to the romulans, too. And while they're at it, why not just remove the restrictions from everyone be done with it. Cha-ching, thank you for your business come again!
Um fron the DS9 series itself - the 'Jem Hadr' race does not have females. The Founders genetically created the race and all Jem Hadr are grown in vats (and experience accelerated growth (they grow to full maturity in a matter of days.) If you don't like that aspect complain to the DS9 series producers and writers (like Ronald D. Moore).
My counter-argument is that if the current batch was intentionally made that way, they could intentionally make a batch that isn't.
On the subject of Vorta, the "poor eyesight" reasoning against them being playable has a counterargument; cybernetic implants that can correct such defects exist in Trek. A defector (or a 'repurposed' Dominion Vorta) could get their eyes upgraded that way.
I'm surprised no-one seems to mention that, considering one of the main characters in the franchise had such an aid (an aid that's actually in the game).
Except Vorta aren't warriors, tac captain, eng captain or even sci captain. They are genetically breed over seers period, which would be rather boring to play. Making them anything but what they are to appease a few, falls under the same conversation as female Jem'Hadar or playable borg cube.
Vorta have shown that they are capable of fighting if they choose to do so. Obviously most don't.
I am furious that the Cryptic Devs decided to reject the use of female Jem'Hadars and Vortas for a new recruitment event....and covering this with dubious excuses. By not coming forward with a reasonable explanation.
And it hurts me that I (and other women and girls) have to put up with this lack of empathy by men in a video game about Star Trek. Repeat: STAR TREK!!! Why can't we have a way to express who we are = women.
I am lucky to have a very supportive Fleet Leader...he told me I would be waiting forever on the dweebs at Cryptic to get it right. And to use my creativity to go my own way.
I guess Gynophobia is alive and well in this century as it is the overall design of this expansion.
Nobody has been asking to change lore and clearly understood about Jems being just clones. I could care less for Jem females. The issue is with CHOICE. The expansion in itself seems misogynous. They could have been more sensitive and throw a bone or two by ADDING a Vorta choice. Why not? In this age of diversity and politically correctness I guess they figure why go there?
By taking away choices this franchise leaves a sour taste of displeasure. I'm not saying make "everyone" happy but at least be more inclusive, diverse and just try to please your audience. Heck we have Dinos shooting up laser from their freaking heads...but no females allow in next expansion (at least thats the message that sounds like). And yes I tried to be as civil as possible and apologies in advance if this did not make the cut.
Comments
This is why I created a bunch last night, any costumes created before the patch will continue to have the restricted items forever as long as the costumes are not edited.
Assuming he did more than just give them a bit more free will than the baseline to allow them to have better judgement based on available information on hand. After all... Odo is still a bit of an outsider among the Founders because he was from the Alpha Quadrant. Yes he got his own fleet, and Loriss 4 is willing to question even Weyoun, but it would be no different than any other species who is confronted with information that contradicts what they have been told.
Look at the Jaffa in Stargate. They started as totally loyal slaves to the Goa'uld, and also dependant on the Goa'uld for their continued existance because they had to rely on young Goa'uld symbiotes to keep them healthy by virtue of how the Jaffa were originally engineered from base humans. But they started learning more and more and started rebelling more and more. And with OUTSIDE help they were able to find an alternative to having to have a symbiote in their gut. The Jem'Hadar are somewhat in the same position as the Jaffa, only they are reliant on the Founders, and the Vorta in turn, for Ketracel White.
Now... is it possible that the Jem'Hadar can find their own counter to this variant of the Lycine Contengency? Yes. HOWEVER... the fact that they are essentially a single gender species with no means of reproduction makes them totally dependant on the Dominion to even continue AS a species.
http://jurassicpark.wikia.com/wiki/Lysine_contingency
> I'm bummed that I can't use the Starfleet Uniform on the Vanguard Boffs on my Federation characters, but it's not enough of an issue to stop me playing a Jem'Hadar.
>
> Neither is the lack of female ones, despite the fact that I'd probably play one if I could. While canon never said female Jem'Hadar didn't exist in the past, it was quite explicit that there certainly aren't any in the present day.
That absolutely bites that fed characters can’t use fed uniforms on vanguard buffs. I had one fed character in enterprise maco gear, as well as my jem’hadar boffs. They looked pretty snazzy. Also I put the later season ds9 uniforms on another fed character and jem’hadar boffs. They also looked snazzy. I haven’t gone on yet today. Hoping this wasn’t the case. Oh well.
Um fron the DS9 series itself - the 'Jem Hadr' race does not have females. The Founders genetically created the race and all Jem Hadr are grown in vats (and experience accelerated growth (they grow to full maturity in a matter of days.) If you don't like that aspect complain to the DS9 series producers and writers (like Ronald D. Moore).
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
According to Robert Wolfe (one of the writers involved with the Jem'Hadar), they apparently weren't created by the Founders but were modified from an existing species the same as the Vorta. They just phased out the females and neutered the males.
Pity the origins of the Jem'Hadar never made it onscreen, would be interesting to see if that was what they went with for the final product.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Then add a few Inspirational and leadership type traits.
As for the LTS species, I really hope they do Liberated Jem'Hadar, or Liberated Vorta, even though I don't have LTS.
Borg assimilation and contact with Federation databases, would have made the Borg aware of the Dominion. I'm sure the Borg would like to have assimiliated Jem Hadar birthing pods and other Dominion bio-technology.
However, I do think Cryptic may have overdone it a bit here, I looked at my Jem's tailor options and I'm officially disappointed. Even cross-faction uniforms like the Intel one isn't available. Which is a real shame as that is one of my favorites that all of my characters have at least one saved costume of.
I can understand limiting the faction-specific items, like traditional Starfleet uniforms and such. But even the cross-faction ones?
Not cool.
Couldn't the same be said about starship customization? Or uniform customization in general? Or non-traditional boffs? All of that, in various degrees, was not part of the shows. Arguing canon in a game designed to advance it 30+ years into the future is not really a valid argument when the game is full of canon disparity.
The only real valid argument for the uniform loss, and no female Jem-Hadar is "CBS/Paramount said no". The rest is easily disputed by the evidence already given in the years the game has been released.
Seven being a "various degree", like I said. Heck, same would be said of Worf with TNG came out. But even in canon you can argue that as the series progressed over the years, things changed. So the argument of Odo allowing female Jem-Hadar is perfectly ok, based on what we've seen in the series' themselves. It's a game world set 30+ years after the last canon series, unless you're a Paramount exec, what reason could a person have to invalidate that change, but be ok with the uniform flexibility?
>
Sorry, you lost all credibility when you tried to make this a gender issue, and to accuse Cryptic of somehow stifling women is quite frankly offensive.
If there was an Amazonian faction, I wouldn’t be looking anywhere near them to make a male.
Kind of disrespectful to the race too, frankly. Why not try and remove their horns too. Or make them pacifists. Then they’d be barely recognizable.
I still feel eminently awkward, running around as a Jem male.
And removing all faction-aligned costume options, that's a bit of a douche move, Cryptic. Seriously; you didn't do that for Roms either, did ya?!
There IS still the issue of female Embassy boffs (with semi-SRO) performing less than their male counterparts. That really *was* a bit offensive. But demanding female Jems, when there never were any in the show, that's just silly, even for me.
also for those whining about the lack of fem'hadar.... play with the gorram sliders... you can make seriously feminine looking characters... they specifically opened up the slider options for this reason. The devs also stated they originally tried removing the whole male/female thing entirely for them since they are neuter but it broke STO.
here are two quick examples from someone I know that refuses to play men, or allow men in her BOFF roster
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1404145121
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1406095552
if she can be happy with the options then maybe you need to chill out some?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I really wish people hadn't dragged in the silly "female jem'hadar" argument into this thread, it has spoiled any chance of a proper discussion of the actual issue of the clothes restriction.
They totally should do exactly that. Then give the same to the romulans, too. And while they're at it, why not just remove the restrictions from everyone be done with it. Cha-ching, thank you for your business come again!
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I guess Gynophobia is alive and well in this century as it is the overall design of this expansion.
Nobody has been asking to change lore and clearly understood about Jems being just clones. I could care less for Jem females. The issue is with CHOICE. The expansion in itself seems misogynous. They could have been more sensitive and throw a bone or two by ADDING a Vorta choice. Why not? In this age of diversity and politically correctness I guess they figure why go there?
By taking away choices this franchise leaves a sour taste of displeasure. I'm not saying make "everyone" happy but at least be more inclusive, diverse and just try to please your audience. Heck we have Dinos shooting up laser from their freaking heads...but no females allow in next expansion (at least thats the message that sounds like). And yes I tried to be as civil as possible and apologies in advance if this did not make the cut.
Original STO beta tester.