wow they shoulda used these WOK uniforms

annemarie30

shadowkosh

nope like the maroon better

kodachikuno

eh.... no
kthxbai

jamieblanchard

Interesting. O_o Though I suppose one could do those in the tailor if one felt inclined. Though the question is begged: Is that an honest to goddess official pic, or a really well done photoshop? Either way, intriguing.

vampeiyre

That's exactly what I did at game launch, TOS department color-coded TWOK uniforms, with my captain wearing green.

angrytarg

jamieblanchard wrote: »

Interesting. O_o Though I suppose one could do those in the tailor if one felt inclined. Though the question is begged: Is that an honest to goddess official pic, or a really well done photoshop? Either way, intriguing.

That's a photoshop. You can simply swap colours these days, it's fascinating what is possible this way

I like the edit. I think I can even make a TWOK crew now, using these colours. I prefer it to the regular uniforms ​​

where2r1

Hey....they used KDF Color Palette!!!

avoozuul

What's with the grey one?

annemarie30

Cadet?

captainkoltar

That's Saavik isn't it? Wasn't
she a navigator on the Enterprise, so should be in yellow?

rattler2

captainkoltar wrote: »

That's Saavik isn't it? Wasn't
she a navigator on the Enterprise, so should be in yellow?

In Wrath of Khan, Saavik was a Cadet. And back in TOS Cadet uniforms were a silver/grey. Saavik had a "flame red" under the uniform Jacket, which according to Memory Alpha was for Cadets, trainees, and Junior Officers. It wasn't until Search for Spock that she wore Command White.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Starfleet_uniform_(late_2270s-2350s)

talonxv

> @rattler2 said:
> captainkoltar wrote: »
>
> That's Saavik isn't it? Wasn't
> she a navigator on the Enterprise, so should be in yellow?
>
>
>
>
> In Wrath of Khan, Saavik was a Cadet. And back in TOS Cadet uniforms were a silver/grey. Saavik had a "flame red" under the uniform Jacket, which according to Memory Alpha was for Cadets, trainees, and Junior Officers. It wasn't until Search for Spock that she wore Command White.
> http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Starfleet_uniform_(late_2270s-2350s)

However she wore a Lt Rank so I wouldn't call her a cadet. And was called Lt more than once.

rattler2

Actually... if you look close, I believe in WoK she had a Lt. JG pin on her uniform.



That would STILL put her in the category of Cadet/Trainee for departmental color, thus... still applicable.

baddmoonrizin

rattler2 wrote: »

Actually... if you look close, I believe in WoK she had a Lt. JG pin on her uniform.



That would STILL put her in the category of Cadet/Trainee for departmental color, thus... still applicable.

She could've been proficiency advanced in grade.

smokebailey

Never liked those uniforms.....too military for my tastes, and too much like a dress uniform......don't look comfy.

I'll stick to the TOS/TMP/TNG ones.

rattler2

azrael605 wrote: »

Well despite what some people think Starfleet is a military.

"I'm a soldier" James Kirk

Pretty much. Starfleet didn't sit back and let some other organization fight the Klingon War or the Dominion War. It was Starfleet.

In times of peace Starfleet acts a bit more like the Coast Guard on top of missions of Science and Exploration. But... when there's an enemy that threatens the Federation, its Starfleet on the front lines, proving why you don't mess with Starfleet.

talonxv

> @rattler2 said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
>
> Well despite what some people think Starfleet is a military.
>
> "I'm a soldier" James Kirk
>
>
>
>
> Pretty much. Starfleet didn't sit back and let some other organization fight the Klingon War or the Dominion War. It was Starfleet.
>
> In times of peace Starfleet acts a bit more like the Coast Guard on top of missions of Science and Exploration. But... when there's an enemy that threatens the Federation, its Starfleet on the front lines, proving why you don't mess with Starfleet.

Just ask the Dominion about that one. And look at the composition of Star Fleet after the Dominion war. Most of the older Miranda and Excelsiors and other older ships replaced by Steam Runners, Sabers, Akira's, Defiants, Soverigns. Even the Promethius had gone into limited production. Even the Oberth was replaced by the much better armed Nova and even the Intrepid class proved to be a stout light cruiser.

My overall 2 cents is not that Starfleet is the coast guard. Starfleet is if NASA and the US Navy had a baby.

angrytarg

azrael605 wrote: »

Well despite what some people think Starfleet is a military.

"I'm a soldier" James Kirk

Oh, you want to play that game?

'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond

(thanks @artan42 )

"I'm not a soldier any more. I'm an engineer." -Miles O'Brien
...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada... -Admiral Pike

Don't forget that the entire plot of the latest Star Trek movie revolved around that issue.

Further, every single relevant piece of background material will also confirm, even though non-canonical, that Starfleet is not a military organization (I mean sources directly derived from creators and staff, like Gene Roddenberry ("Starfleet is not a military organisation. It is a scientific research and diplomatic body. Although the duties of the Enterprise may include some military responsibilities, the primary purpose of the Enterprise — as with all Starfleet vessels is to expand the body of human knowledge." Source: TOS writer's/directors guide), the Technical Manuals by Sternbach and Okuda ("These duties range from relatively mundane domestic and civil missions, to cultural contact and diplomacy, to defense, to our primary mission of exploration and research." Source: TNG TM, "Starfleet - An organization chartered by the United Federation of Planets, dedicated to exploration, diplomacy, research and defense. It is not primarily a military service in the 20th century sense of the term", Source: Voyager writer's guide)

So...​​

angrytarg

azrael605 wrote: »

Well despite what some people think Starfleet is a military.

"I'm a soldier" James Kirk

Oh, you want to play that game?

'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond

(thanks @artan42 )

"I'm not a soldier any more. I'm an engineer." -Miles O'Brien
...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada... -Admiral Pike

Don't forget that the entire plot of the latest Star Trek movie revolved around that issue.

Further, every single relevant piece of background material will also confirm, even though non-canonical, that Starfleet is not a military organization (I mean sources directly derived from creators and staff, like Gene Roddenberry ("Starfleet is not a military organisation. It is a scientific research and diplomatic body. Although the duties of the Enterprise may include some military responsibilities, the primary purpose of the Enterprise — as with all Starfleet vessels is to expand the body of human knowledge." Source: TOS writer's/directors guide), the Technical Manuals by Sternbach and Okuda ("These duties range from relatively mundane domestic and civil missions, to cultural contact and diplomacy, to defense, to our primary mission of exploration and research." Source: TNG TM, "Starfleet - An organization chartered by the United Federation of Planets, dedicated to exploration, diplomacy, research and defense. It is not primarily a military service in the 20th century sense of the term", Source: Voyager writer's guide)

So...

*Countlessmorelettersfortheeditmonstereatiteatitandchokeonit*​​

rattler2

angrytarg wrote: »

It is not primarily a military service in the 20th century sense of the term", Source: Voyager writer's guide)​​

Seems to be interesting that this had to be said. "In the 20th Century sense of the term". Which implies that Starfleet could be considered one, or fulfills the duties of one.

(Edit Monster Be Gone...)

talonxv

> @angrytarg said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> Well despite what some people think Starfleet is a military.
>
> "I'm a soldier" James Kirk
>
>
>
>
> Oh, you want to play that game?
>
> '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
> 'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
> 'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
> '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
>
> (thanks @artan42 )
>
> "I'm not a soldier any more. I'm an engineer." -Miles O'Brien
> ...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada... -Admiral Pike
>
> Don't forget that the entire plot of the latest Star Trek movie revolved around that issue.
>
> Further, every single relevant piece of background material will also confirm, even though non-canonical, that Starfleet is not a military organization (I mean sources directly derived from creators and staff, like Gene Roddenberry ("Starfleet is not a military organisation. It is a scientific research and diplomatic body. Although the duties of the Enterprise may include some military responsibilities, the primary purpose of the Enterprise — as with all Starfleet vessels is to expand the body of human knowledge." Source: TOS writer's/directors guide), the Technical Manuals by Sternbach and Okuda ("These duties range from relatively mundane domestic and civil missions, to cultural contact and diplomacy, to defense, to our primary mission of exploration and research." Source: TNG TM, "Starfleet - An organization chartered by the United Federation of Planets, dedicated to exploration, diplomacy, research and defense. It is not primarily a military service in the 20th century sense of the term", Source: Voyager writer's guide)
>
> So...
>
> *Countlessmorelettersfortheeditmonstereatiteatitandchokeonit*​​

Then explain trial by court marshal which is a MILITARY TRIBUNAL which Kirk himself stands during TOS?

I'll be waiting here.

angrytarg

azrael605 wrote: »

To borrow from ruinthefun, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, bleeds like a duck, its a duck. People can say "starfleet isn't a military" until the sky falls, a duck is a duck.

Let me quote myself here, as this argument has been made for years and still doesn't help your case

angrytarg wrote:

The family of Anatidae is not only very large with something close to 150 species and a few dozen genera but can and will also be confused with a lot of other water dwelling fowl. The "Duck Equivalence Principle" is a very short sighted and annoying comparison that doesn't work the way people use it 99% of the time.

talonxv wrote: »

Then explain trial by court marshal which is a MILITARY TRIBUNAL which Kirk himself stands during TOS?

I'll be waiting here.

By repeating myself. Obviously, Starfleet has court martials but is also, obviously, not a military organization. I don't say Star Trek doesn't have it's contradictions within, but the point of Starfleet not being a military is pretty obvious in every material I have cited above including n entire movie plot. I find it really hard to grasp why some people even go through the motions of rewriting the very thing they see, the very thing that tells them "In this show, X is Y", in their head and then try to convince others that there are actually five lights.​​

artan42

angrytarg wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

Well despite what some people think Starfleet is a military.

"I'm a soldier" James Kirk

Oh, you want to play that game?

'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond

(thanks @artan42 )

"I'm not a soldier any more. I'm an engineer." -Miles O'Brien
...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada... -Admiral Pike

Don't forget that the entire plot of the latest Star Trek movie revolved around that issue.

Further, every single relevant piece of background material will also confirm, even though non-canonical, that Starfleet is not a military organization (I mean sources directly derived from creators and staff, like Gene Roddenberry ("Starfleet is not a military organisation. It is a scientific research and diplomatic body. Although the duties of the Enterprise may include some military responsibilities, the primary purpose of the Enterprise — as with all Starfleet vessels is to expand the body of human knowledge." Source: TOS writer's/directors guide), the Technical Manuals by Sternbach and Okuda ("These duties range from relatively mundane domestic and civil missions, to cultural contact and diplomacy, to defense, to our primary mission of exploration and research." Source: TNG TM, "Starfleet - An organization chartered by the United Federation of Planets, dedicated to exploration, diplomacy, research and defense. It is not primarily a military service in the 20th century sense of the term", Source: Voyager writer's guide)

So...

*Countlessmorelettersfortheeditmonstereatiteatitandchokeonit*

Two more to add to the sig @angrytarg .

Yeah, it's not a military despite being the defence arm of the Federation. Though that's far too complicated for some people.

Also, Kirk, calling himself a soldier, is clearly telling the truth (despite soldier being a particularly ambiguous term that anybody can apply to themselves) but Picard and Scotty are lying through their teeth (despite being very explicit about the nature of their organisation).

Still, folks gotta space ninja .​​

angrytarg

@artan42 not only do those characters lie in-universe and one quote outweighs six or seven depending on it's content, even the people making the show lie and it takes special skills to really figure out what goes on in it.

angrytarg

Again the duck thing. Everything the duck equivalence principle shows is ignorance.