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Loot boxes now illegal in Belgium
eradicator84
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in Ten Forward
I just came across this article
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/video-game-loot-boxes-are-now-considered-criminal-gambling-in-belgium/
Would this have bearing on STO's lockbox situation?
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/video-game-loot-boxes-are-now-considered-criminal-gambling-in-belgium/
Would this have bearing on STO's lockbox situation?
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I'd agree. We don't have to worry at all. We ALWAYS get something of value in return.
Team Fortress 2 also skirts the issue with the fact that everything in the crate is ALSO available as random drops, crafting, and straight up purchase. ONLY thing you can only get from the crate is kill tracking gear and cosmetic. And the Kill Tracking... has no other bonus. A Strange Sydney Sleeper has no stat difference vs a normal Sydney Sleeper.
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The UK already went through one of these months back without success, i wonder if there is now enough basis to put another one before the leaders?
Baby steps often to lead to much bigger steps. You wouldn't be worried now but wait for a few years and see where it is at. Seems a bit early to suggest anything yet.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
it could, since one of the named ones, overwatch is a purely cosmetic no matter how much you spead you get nothing back and you can buy them outright with credits you get from opening boxs. so even the most harmless kinds of lock boxs are not safe.
really this reinforces my belief goverment should be as hands off as possible, they are just too stupid andor clueless to do any real good.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
also in the netherlands
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-04-19-the-netherlands-declares-some-loot-boxes-are-gambling
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"We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
– Grey Council greeting
As this law is worded perhaps, however the more aggressive proposals I've seen would indeed affect STO as well, and I highly doubt this will be the only law passed regarding loot boxes.
Indeed but I doubt that the concept of a small, randomized pack of in-game goodies is going to go away any time soon. Publish the odds and we're on the same footing as trading card packs. It's "good business" now that keeps those hidden but if push comes to shove then it seems like the easiest change that would [apparently] suit regulators (and better allow the industry to self-regulate by letting consumers better vet loot box models.)
As for the Belgian news: I can speak to Counterstrike and that hella falls under the definition provided for "Games of Chance." Steam allows you to sell weapon skins to other players for real money (simply added to your Steam wallet), making their loot boxes a defacto slot machine with prizes graded by market demand (which is largely informed by weapon skin odds.) People can literally try to fund their gaming via loot box gambling.
STO is a very long way away from that model, to the point where only an overgeneralization could find them comparable. Yes, it's money tied to a randomized content box but the implementation and context are wildly different (ex. what STO does with lock boxes is entirely within gameplay, prizes have no meaning outside the game. Arguably, CS skins only have meaning outside the game.) CS's loot boxes may now be illegal in Belgium but that's not a blanket ban on all randomized content delivery systems (ex. gumball machines.)
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I'd rather see games adjust their practices rather than consumers provide more legal documentation. If age gating would become a thing then it certainly wouldn't be on the honors basis of merely specifying your date of birth. Companies would be very liable for under-aged gambling in that case. So we're looking at giving publishers our driver license numbers (U.S.) to support their most parasitic habits. I don't that as an improvement over the current situation.
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Loot boxes considered as criminal gambling in Belgium.
i posted it in general since I dont normally come to this branch of the forums. btw Belgium considers gambling anything left to chance... if you open the box and the contents can change or is random... it is gambling. that would apply to STO.
So... even trading cards are gambling.
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Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That's probably not a fair read. Here's the (translated) objections the commission had:
1. Slanted presentation, implying that you will win big in spite of statistics (just as with Casino commercials)
2. Absolutely worthless content (not "oh, not useful for my character" but not useful to any character)
3. Celebrity endorsements of top content (probably FIFA)
4. Essentially: using analogous currency to casino poker chips (no other value)
5. I think: being able to earn unlimited money from loot boxes (probably CS:GO)
6. Unspecified odds (something everyone does)
They aren't objecting to the mere presence of an RNG prize system, it's the use of RNG to create definite gambling mechanics in Overwatch, FIFA, and Counterstrike. At the very least, this means presenting loot boxes as something to play for fun and the promise of riches, as opposed to an available content packaging option. For context, here's the Discovery Lock box blog:
Arcgames Linky
It simply presents what's available, it doesn't promote lock boxes as a separate gameplay activity or even make simple reference to the experience of opening packs. Now: compare that to FIFA. They're directly promoting the opening of loot boxes as entertainment in its own right while providing no meaningful context or content break-down (see. youtube link of their "pack" opening animations, directly advertising the neurochemical high of winning big.)
EA Linky
Basically: there is some dark TRIBBLE going with the specific examples Belgium reviewed. STO isn't necessarily subject to the same regulations (given lobi, a strict in-game focus, a much better selection of content, a full break-down of that content, and a very different [ie. largely matter of fact] marketing approach) though they may still have to shift focus to Lobi a bit more and publish lock box odds in the event that becomes a sticking point.
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Here's an except from the official press release:
De onderzochte spellen met betalende loot boxen, zoals deze momenteel in ons land worden aangeboden, zijn dan ook in overtreding met de kansspelwetgeving en kunnen strafrechtelijk worden aangepakt. De loot boxen dienen dan ook verwijderd te worden. Indien dat niet gebeurt, riskeren de exploitanten een gevangenisstraf tot vijf jaar en een geldboete tot 800.000 euro. Wanneer ook minderjarigen zijn betrokken, kunnen die straffen verdubbeld worden.
Google Translate:
The games with paid loot boxes, as currently offered in our country, are therefore in violation of the gaming legislation and can be dealt with under criminal law. The loot boxes must therefore also be removed. If that does not happen, the operators risk a prison sentence of up to five years and a fine of up to 800,000 euros. When minors are involved, those punishments can be doubled.
Not necessarily, they only actually investigated four games, the fourth being Battlefront 2 which got a pass because they had removed lock boxes after the backlash (they are coming back though so who knows if that will remain the case). More than likely if they were to investigate other games they would find at least some of them to be breaking the law as well. It would not be a good idea for devs of any game with loot boxes to see their game is not listed and decide to just ignore this.
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I wish they would lose the license, I'm dieing for more Jedi Knight, Rogue Squadron, and X-Wing style games. Star Wars always had so many great games until Disney got their claws on the franchise ...
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