According to Picard (Go to 1:40) the metaphasic radiation isn't restricted to the planet. According to Dougherty, the rings were needed to make the Son'a plan work but he doesn't understand why despite the Federations best minds already looking over the process.
Given the Son'a were partly in interested in revenge, it's entirely possible they only chose the high concentration in the rings because they knew the Ba'ku would get screwed. Which would explain why Dougherty was kept in the dark by the Son'a.
That's one of those subtle details that makes the movie's tone a lot different when you think about it that way. How much practical experimentation HAS been done? It seems like the Son'a showed their research to the Feds and some simulations, but little else was done to verify it.
Of course little was done to verify it. Those simulations were quire convincing.
Even to Ru'afo himself
Now that I'm thinking about it, people in Trek do allow themselves to get convinced rather easily, don't they? Showing a movie to the Xindi was enough to remove any doubts they had about Earth attacking them in the future.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
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I've also wondered about this a lot whenever I saw the loading screens.
The Son'a (are we going to see them again btw? Their role so far has been quite underwhelming) have experimented on him, and kept him alive after bringing him back from the death. It would seem odd that whatever method they used was able to regenerate his entire body but kept his eye the way it is.
And don't Klingons have doctors anyway? Some battle wounds may be kept because they're warriors and all, but you'd think that restoring someone's eyesight would also be important for those warriors.
He has NO EYE to regenerate! That's why!! Sheeeesh! And no. Any Klingon would refuse it, because a scar is like a medal, but in Martok's case, he refuses because he felt shame at being taken prisoner and it was to remind him of his shame.
So? The fact that his entire eye is missing is in itself no explanation as to why his eye wasn't restored by the Son'a's treatment.
His entire body was close to death, he was slain by J'mpok in ritual combat. If his body can recover from that through some special treatment, restoring his eye tissue or if needed rebuilding the eye from scratch should have happened too. It makes no sense that the treatment the Son'a used was able to have Martok appear dead, keep him close to death for however long it took to get him to the Son'a facilities and then bring him back, fully recovered as if the whole 'close-to-death' thing never happened and he was never close to dying in the first place.
There is no logical explanation as to why his eye was not recovered as part of the treatment, certainly not if the treatment was some sort of general regeneration technique. I doubt the Son'a would care much about what he thinks of it if they kept him prisoner for decades anyway.
No, no, no, no. You clearly have no clue on how your own body heals!! Even we can recover from close-to-death injuries without the effects of the Briar patch, but very, very few species can regenerate a new organ from nothing! The Briar Patch cannot regenerate tissue if that tissue does not exist! That's why Geordie is able to see. Martok's eye is gone, kaput, non-existant! The Sona have no reason to give Martok a new eye at all, and most likely don't have any spare eyes about!
Please go and watch DS9 and hear it from Martok himself why he does not want a new eye. He will repeat exactly what I told you in my earlier post!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
you do realise that Martok's left eye was destroyed by a Jem'hadar in 2371 (DS9 "S05-E14 - In Purgatorys Shadow" and "S05-E15 - By Infernos Light") over 20yrs before he was defeated by j'mpok, in 2395 there would be nothing left to regenerate by the time he was captured by the S'ona
Draal - FED, Saurian, LV60 - TAC
Mirak - FED 23c, Vulkan, LV60 - TAC
Ascaran Bloodclaw - KDF, Gorn, Lv18 - TAC
Melchiah - KDF, Gorn, LV60 - TAC
Ne'roon - KDF,Lethian, L60, TAC
Turel - ROM-KDF, Reman, 30, TAC
Elric - ROM-Fed, Romulan, L60, TAC
Richtor Belmont - FED 23c, Human,LV20, SCI
G'Kar - KDF, Gorn, L10
USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star."
"We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
In 2375, severe headaches ultimately lead to the discovery that La Forge's optic nerve had regenerated due to exposure to metaphasic radiation at the Ba'ku planet. USS Enterprise-E CMO Beverly Crusher temporarily removed the ocular implants, during which time La Forge was capable of vision using his natural organs, although this effect wore off after he left the Ba'ku homeworld and was no longer regularly exposed to the radiation.
Sounds like Geordi's implants were not total eye replacements, but worked in conjunction with his natural eyes, but bypassed the part that didn't work. At least that's how I interpret the part about removing the implants and he's got normal eyes.
Also... for people still debating why Martok never got an occular implant to replace his missing eye...
In 2373, Doctor Julian Bashir of starbase Deep Space 9 suggested that General Martok undergo the procedure to receive an ocular implant after the Klingon lost his eye in combat with the Jem'Hadar Ikat'ika on Internment Camp 371. Martok was adamant that he did "not want an artificial eye".
According to Picard (Go to 1:40) the metaphasic radiation isn't restricted to the planet. According to Dougherty, the rings were needed to make the Son'a plan work but he doesn't understand why despite the Federations best minds already looking over the process.
Given the Son'a were partly in interested in revenge, it's entirely possible they only chose the high concentration in the rings because they knew the Ba'ku would get screwed. Which would explain why Dougherty was kept in the dark by the Son'a.
That's one of those subtle details that makes the movie's tone a lot different when you think about it that way. How much practical experimentation HAS been done? It seems like the Son'a showed their research to the Feds and some simulations, but little else was done to verify it.
Of course little was done to verify it. Those simulations were quire convincing.
Even to Ru'afo himself
Now that I'm thinking about it, people in Trek do allow themselves to get convinced rather easily, don't they? Showing a movie to the Xindi was enough to remove any doubts they had about Earth attacking them in the future.
That sounds like a case of art imitating life. Misinformation IRL is often far less comprehensive than people wish it was.
I always thought it was wierd that Geordi had to wear a visor when Data is walking around with working artificial eyes (not saying rip them out of Data's head but that it took them so long to decide to give Geordie robot eyes)
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Data would have had no issues interfacing synthetic eyes with synthetic body as it'd just be a case of wiring it up right.
With geordi they had to marry up organic and synthetic in such a way that he'd be able to process the info without information overload. For data that filtering would probably be done as part of his normal brain function whereas for geordi his visor would have probably done it, few times in the show he fiddles with it to adjust the spectrum or whatever so it was still very much a tech addition rather than part of him.
And don't Klingons have doctors anyway? Some battle wounds may be kept because they're warriors and all, but you'd think that restoring someone's eyesight would also be important for those warriors.
You'd think, but apparently not Martok. Bashir offers him a replacement eye in an episode of DS9 shortly after they were rescued from the Dominion prison camp, and he declined. His reason escapes me at the moment (wanna say it was to 'remind him of the mistakes he'd made,' but don't quote me on that).
Klingons due have medicine and doctors, but it's not like medical care as we know it. Klimgons consider things like scars and missing eyes as something like a badge of honor, especially when the injury occurs in battle. Martok's eye was damaged while being a POW, so he may not have considered it a badge of honor, but maybe a reminder of his missteps. some injuries a klingon recieves might or might not be fully treated, like a severed limb. it would depend on the warrior and whether he thought the loss of the limb impaired his ability to participate in honorable combat. Klingon trauma med is supposed to be excellent when dealing with things like deep cuts, bludgeoning injuries, stab wounds, blood loss, and so on. but supposedly they don't practice life saving medical procedures that often, since every Klingons goal is to supposedly die in glorious honoirable combat with the enemy. if you were to bring a Klingon back from the edge of death, odds are, they would be very unhappy with you.
Star Treking, across the universe. Only going forward because we can't find reverse...
And don't Klingons have doctors anyway? Some battle wounds may be kept because they're warriors and all, but you'd think that restoring someone's eyesight would also be important for those warriors.
You'd think, but apparently not Martok. Bashir offers him a replacement eye in an episode of DS9 shortly after they were rescued from the Dominion prison camp, and he declined. His reason escapes me at the moment (wanna say it was to 'remind him of the mistakes he'd made,' but don't quote me on that).
Klingons due have medicine and doctors, but it's not like medical care as we know it. Klimgons consider things like scars and missing eyes as something like a badge of honor, especially when the injury occurs in battle. Martok's eye was damaged while being a POW, so he may not have considered it a badge of honor, but maybe a reminder of his missteps. some injuries a klingon recieves might or might not be fully treated, like a severed limb. it would depend on the warrior and whether he thought the loss of the limb impaired his ability to participate in honorable combat. Klingon trauma med is supposed to be excellent when dealing with things like deep cuts, bludgeoning injuries, stab wounds, blood loss, and so on. but supposedly they don't practice life saving medical procedures that often, since every Klingons goal is to supposedly die in glorious honoirable combat with the enemy. if you were to bring a Klingon back from the edge of death, odds are, they would be very unhappy with you.
Not in every case. Some Klingons who found themselves in a most dishonorable place for example being held prisoner, they would lose their honor but they would do everything they can to regain a measure of that honor they lost and at least die heading to the afterlife with that honor intact. Martok hasn't had any trouble with the other eye, considering that Bashir could of easily set the visual acuity on the one eye he has left so he can focus and see properly. I can only recount Worf and Martok as examples though.
Martok would consider the missing eye as a cautionary tale that not everyone will be honorable and no matter what, he will carry it like a badge of honor that he never backed down or surrendered even when he felt he should, even with this grave injury, he continued to fight in his own way. At the same time though it would of given Martok a life lesson, he isn't a young fighter any more and he has to accept that and a new role that comes with it, which would explain why Worf and Sisko wanted Martok to lead the allied forces from DS9 as a general instead of a warrior and the challenge that comes with taking command once again, to help Martok snap out of it when Worf challenged him to his uncharacteristic trait of being overly cautious rahter than for command of the ship.
A Klingon can still serve and still be as good as any other even with some injuries, any chance to die with honor in a fight, even with a missing arm or leg, as long as he/she can hold a batleth, d'k'tagh or mek'leth in their hands and fight with honor, that is all that matters.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Also, away from the radiation there, the effect fades; La Forge's implants were back in Nemesis.
He was being held in a prison in the Briar Patch. But either way it wasn't the Briar Patch but the Ba'ku homeworld that had the regenerative radiation.
Also, away from the radiation there, the effect fades; La Forge's implants were back in Nemesis.
He was being held in a prison in the Briar Patch. But either way it wasn't the Briar Patch but the Ba'ku homeworld that had the regenerative radiation.
Insurrection itself says otherwise. In the clip I posted a link to in the last page, Picard made it clear that the metaphasic radiation exists throughout the Briar Patch. The rings of that particular planet wasn't the only place it could be found, they just had an unusually high concentration and were (supposedly) vital to the Son'a plans.
Yep, which is why I question whether they even needed the rings at all. Quite convenient that the most vital component of the plan (destroying the rings of a single, specific world) just happened to be something that would TRIBBLE over the Ba'ku.
As we know, Klingons have redundant physiology. Their small brain size allows them to have a second pair of eyes behind the first ones which move into position when the first set is damaged. However, Martok was already on his second pair.
As we know, Klingons have redundant physiology. Their small brain size allows them to have a second pair of eyes behind the first ones which move into position when the first set is damaged. However, Martok was already on his second pair.
He may also have rejected the idea of an implant for personal reasons.
Larry Niven wrote a series of stories about Gil "the Arm" Hamilton, a cop with the UN police, the ARM, who'd lost his right arm in an accident while mining in the Belt (and developed a limited telekinetic replacement, but that's a side issue here). He moved back to Earth because the UN's socialized medicine would give him a replacement from the organ banks; that drove him to join the ARM because he found out his new arm came from an organlegger's (black market organ replacements, harvested from kidnap victims) captured stock. He refused the mechanical replacement the Belt offered, because he was squeamish about prosthetics.
(from "Death By Ecstasy")
Why? It's not a question I can answer. Others obviously feel differently; there are millions of people walking around with metal and plastic and silicone parts. Part man, part machine, and how do they themselves know which is the real person?
I'd rather be dead than part metal. Call it a quirk... A human being should be all human. He should have habits and possessions peculiarly his own, he should not try to look like or behave like anyone but himself, and he should not be half robot.
Not all the characters feel that way, of course. Take, for instance, Lawrence Ecks, who had been one of the murder suspects in "ARM":
"Squeamish about being part mechanical? I've heard of that," Ecks said. "But you can be squeamish the other way, too. What there is of me is all me, not part of a dead man."
As we know, Klingons have redundant physiology. Their small brain size allows them to have a second pair of eyes behind the first ones which move into position when the first set is damaged. However, Martok was already on his second pair.
Thanks for the laugh xD
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Comments
Of course little was done to verify it. Those simulations were quire convincing.
Even to Ru'afo himself
Now that I'm thinking about it, people in Trek do allow themselves to get convinced rather easily, don't they? Showing a movie to the Xindi was enough to remove any doubts they had about Earth attacking them in the future.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
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No, no, no, no. You clearly have no clue on how your own body heals!! Even we can recover from close-to-death injuries without the effects of the Briar patch, but very, very few species can regenerate a new organ from nothing! The Briar Patch cannot regenerate tissue if that tissue does not exist! That's why Geordie is able to see. Martok's eye is gone, kaput, non-existant! The Sona have no reason to give Martok a new eye at all, and most likely don't have any spare eyes about!
Please go and watch DS9 and hear it from Martok himself why he does not want a new eye. He will repeat exactly what I told you in my earlier post!
USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
"We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
– Grey Council greeting
Sounds like Geordi's implants were not total eye replacements, but worked in conjunction with his natural eyes, but bypassed the part that didn't work. At least that's how I interpret the part about removing the implants and he's got normal eyes.
Also... for people still debating why Martok never got an occular implant to replace his missing eye...
My character Tsin'xing
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
With geordi they had to marry up organic and synthetic in such a way that he'd be able to process the info without information overload. For data that filtering would probably be done as part of his normal brain function whereas for geordi his visor would have probably done it, few times in the show he fiddles with it to adjust the spectrum or whatever so it was still very much a tech addition rather than part of him.
My character Tsin'xing
Klingons due have medicine and doctors, but it's not like medical care as we know it. Klimgons consider things like scars and missing eyes as something like a badge of honor, especially when the injury occurs in battle. Martok's eye was damaged while being a POW, so he may not have considered it a badge of honor, but maybe a reminder of his missteps. some injuries a klingon recieves might or might not be fully treated, like a severed limb. it would depend on the warrior and whether he thought the loss of the limb impaired his ability to participate in honorable combat. Klingon trauma med is supposed to be excellent when dealing with things like deep cuts, bludgeoning injuries, stab wounds, blood loss, and so on. but supposedly they don't practice life saving medical procedures that often, since every Klingons goal is to supposedly die in glorious honoirable combat with the enemy. if you were to bring a Klingon back from the edge of death, odds are, they would be very unhappy with you.
Not in every case. Some Klingons who found themselves in a most dishonorable place for example being held prisoner, they would lose their honor but they would do everything they can to regain a measure of that honor they lost and at least die heading to the afterlife with that honor intact. Martok hasn't had any trouble with the other eye, considering that Bashir could of easily set the visual acuity on the one eye he has left so he can focus and see properly. I can only recount Worf and Martok as examples though.
Martok would consider the missing eye as a cautionary tale that not everyone will be honorable and no matter what, he will carry it like a badge of honor that he never backed down or surrendered even when he felt he should, even with this grave injury, he continued to fight in his own way. At the same time though it would of given Martok a life lesson, he isn't a young fighter any more and he has to accept that and a new role that comes with it, which would explain why Worf and Sisko wanted Martok to lead the allied forces from DS9 as a general instead of a warrior and the challenge that comes with taking command once again, to help Martok snap out of it when Worf challenged him to his uncharacteristic trait of being overly cautious rahter than for command of the ship.
A Klingon can still serve and still be as good as any other even with some injuries, any chance to die with honor in a fight, even with a missing arm or leg, as long as he/she can hold a batleth, d'k'tagh or mek'leth in their hands and fight with honor, that is all that matters.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
He was being held in a prison in the Briar Patch. But either way it wasn't the Briar Patch but the Ba'ku homeworld that had the regenerative radiation.
Insurrection itself says otherwise. In the clip I posted a link to in the last page, Picard made it clear that the metaphasic radiation exists throughout the Briar Patch. The rings of that particular planet wasn't the only place it could be found, they just had an unusually high concentration and were (supposedly) vital to the Son'a plans.
eye shark explanation for the win
Larry Niven wrote a series of stories about Gil "the Arm" Hamilton, a cop with the UN police, the ARM, who'd lost his right arm in an accident while mining in the Belt (and developed a limited telekinetic replacement, but that's a side issue here). He moved back to Earth because the UN's socialized medicine would give him a replacement from the organ banks; that drove him to join the ARM because he found out his new arm came from an organlegger's (black market organ replacements, harvested from kidnap victims) captured stock. He refused the mechanical replacement the Belt offered, because he was squeamish about prosthetics.
Not all the characters feel that way, of course. Take, for instance, Lawrence Ecks, who had been one of the murder suspects in "ARM":
Martoks reaction wouldn't have been as pleasant as g'kars
Thanks for the laugh xD
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.