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Possible anti Hurq tactic (ground)

xungnguyenxungnguyen Member Posts: 233 Arc User
in Ten Forward
Will dragons (fire breathing) be good for air support ops against the Hurq?
temporal_lapras__royal_flagship__by_lapry101-dbutq96.png


"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,022 Community Moderator
    Any flying dragon would be good air support against anything short of Elementals.

    Unless we're talking Battletech Elementals, then they're still effective.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Any flying dragon would be good air support against anything short of Elementals.

    Unless we're talking Battletech Elementals, then they're still effective.

    I dunno, when you have weapons at least as advanced as man-portable machine guns and antimateriel rifles, dragons aren't that intimidating.
    a1tg90.jpg
    Check out my YouTube channel!
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,022 Community Moderator
    Well... if we consider how much firepower it took to take down a Dragon in GATE... it took basically an RPG to cause damage to it. Even the equivelent of an M2 seemed to not have any effect.

    AA guns on vehicles were able to shoot down wyverns though, but they are a lot smaller.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Well... if we consider how much firepower it took to take down a Dragon in GATE... it took basically an RPG to cause damage to it. Even the equivelent of an M2 seemed to not have any effect.

    AA guns on vehicles were able to shoot down wyverns though, but they are a lot smaller.

    I dunno what GATE is, but I suspect that was just writers being writers. If a dragon is hit by an anti-material round, one of two things is going to happen:

    1. The bullet will penetrate its hide, likely breaking into fragments and wrecking everything in its path.
    2. The bullet will be stopped by armor, in which case sufficient kinetic energy to puncture vehicle armor will be transferred through the armor into the dragon's flesh, causing massive internal damage.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go be arrested for the dubious google searches it took to try to find out how bullets impact armor and the sort of damage they can do.
    a1tg90.jpg
    Check out my YouTube channel!
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,022 Community Moderator
    GATE is a manga and anime where the JSDF responds to an attack and sends forces through a gate to another world. Its basically Modern Military vs Medieval Fantasy.

    http://gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there.wikia.com/wiki/Gate_-_Thus_the_JSDF_Fought_There!
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    GATE is a manga and anime where the JSDF responds to an attack and sends forces through a gate to another world. Its basically Modern Military vs Medieval Fantasy.

    http://gate-thus-the-jsdf-fought-there.wikia.com/wiki/Gate_-_Thus_the_JSDF_Fought_There!

    Yeah, definitely writers being writers. Though as I understand it, if there's one military that would have trouble dealing with fantasy monsters, it's them (The JSDF is notoriously poorly trained and run).
    a1tg90.jpg
    Check out my YouTube channel!
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,022 Community Moderator
    Well... even older model guns were able to outrange and devastate a medieval army...
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    the dragons from reign of fire certainly had no trouble overrunning humanity - of course, that was mostly because there were literally THOUSANDS of them, and humanity did more damage to itself after authorizing the use of nuclear weapons against the dragons than the dragons themselves did​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    alexmakepeace wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Well... if we consider how much firepower it took to take down a Dragon in GATE... it took basically an RPG to cause damage to it. Even the equivelent of an M2 seemed to not have any effect.

    AA guns on vehicles were able to shoot down wyverns though, but they are a lot smaller.
    I dunno what GATE is, but I suspect that was just writers being writers. If a dragon is hit by an anti-material round, one of two things is going to happen:

    1. The bullet will penetrate its hide, likely breaking into fragments and wrecking everything in its path.
    2. The bullet will be stopped by armor, in which case sufficient kinetic energy to puncture vehicle armor will be transferred through the armor into the dragon's flesh, causing massive internal damage.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go be arrested for the dubious google searches it took to try to find out how bullets impact armor and the sort of damage they can do.
    why would it cause "massive" internal damage? seems more like it'd just annoy the dragon.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    all that kinetic energy has to go somewhere...​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    the dragons from reign of fire certainly had no trouble overrunning humanity - of course, that was mostly because there were literally THOUSANDS of them, and humanity did more damage to itself after authorizing the use of nuclear weapons against the dragons than the dragons themselves did​​

    Humans woke up the Alpha Dragon prematurely, only one person lived to tell the tale of the dragon waking up
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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      legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
      legendarylycan#5411
             Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
      yeah, the same guy who ended up killing the bull at the end of the movie (and the game)​​
      Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

      #LegalizeAwoo

      A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
      An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
      A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
      A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

      "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
      "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
      Passion and Serenity are one.
      I gain power by understanding both.
      In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
      I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
      The Force is united within me.
    • Options
      theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
      Reign of Fire is one of my favorite movies, the game was not bad but could have been better
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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        markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
        shadowfang240 wrote: »
        all that kinetic energy has to go somewhere...​​
        "kinetic energy" get dissipated rather easily since it's really just movement.
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        My character Tsin'xing
        Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
      • Options
        alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
        edited March 2018
        markhawkman wrote: »
        shadowfang240 wrote: »
        all that kinetic energy has to go somewhere...​​
        "kinetic energy" get dissipated rather easily since it's really just movement.

        Yeah, and that movement is still pretty damaging. Bulletproof vests stop a bullet from killing you, but they still cause potentially dangerous injuries. Broken ribs, organ damage, etc. And these are tiny 9 mm handgun rounds. Compare those to the big .50 cal rounds which are potentially being delivered at a rate of about ~450/minute.
        a1tg90.jpg
        Check out my YouTube channel!
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        markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
        Still don't think it should be considered a given that the bullets would actually hurt it.
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        My character Tsin'xing
        Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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        nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
        markhawkman wrote: »
        Still don't think it should be considered a given that the bullets would actually hurt it.

        it really shouldn't be, hippos, gorram hippos, are rather resistant to gunfire even high power rifles and elephant gun aren't called that because they have cute designs on them. depending on just how a dragons physiology it could easily range from with a little luck and enough shots a normal everyday hunting rifle can do the job to if your not carrying something designed to destroy tanks don't even bother trying.

        if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
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        ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
        Let's be clear, the kinetic energy from a bullet doesn't get transferred in a straight line through armour. It will transfer into the armour and from there into the target along the entire surface area of the armour. That's why British Army body armour contains one large ceramic plate across the entire torso - it transfers the energy over the entire torso rather than into one specific area, which means the entire area takes a small amount of energy rather than one area (say, your spleen) taking massive kinetic damage. It's the difference between a well-bruised torso and a ruptured organ. One is painful, the other could kill you. It's all about surface area. If a dragon's scale is large enough, the energy from the bullet won't cause much damage.

        (I can't believe I'm discussing the anatomy of a fantasy creature - on a Star Trek forum no less! :P )
        Old Wounds
        Trials of Blood and Fire
        Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
        In Cold Blood
      • Options
        legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
        legendarylycan#5411
                 Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
        well, of all the dragons i've seen in games or films, i have yet to see one whose scales were much larger than a dinner plate at best - maybe a baseball mound at the absolute biggest​​
        Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

        #LegalizeAwoo

        A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
        An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
        A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
        A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

        "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
        "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
        Passion and Serenity are one.
        I gain power by understanding both.
        In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
        I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
        The Force is united within me.
      • Options
        xungnguyenxungnguyen Member Posts: 233 Arc User
        Ryan, the whole dragon summoning thing was my idea.
        temporal_lapras__royal_flagship__by_lapry101-dbutq96.png


        "Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
      • Options
        ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
        I was being ironic, not a criticism, hence the smiley. ;)
        Old Wounds
        Trials of Blood and Fire
        Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
        In Cold Blood
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        theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
        I do like dragons, this shows one way of taking one down.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ6ayvGPP0g
        NMXb2ph.png
          "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
          -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
        • Options
          markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
          theraven2378 wrote: »
          I do like dragons, this shows one way of taking one down.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ6ayvGPP0g
          In fairness to Daenerys, that would kill most things.
          -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
          My character Tsin'xing
          Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
        • Options
          theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
          Still though, to see a dragon go down like that was shocking. We saw what a Scorpion bolt did to Drogon, it brought him down but he was still combat capable
          NMXb2ph.png
            "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
            -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
          • Options
            legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
            legendarylycan#5411
                         Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
            it almost looked like that ice spear (which is the 'scorpion' bolt i guess) hit a major artery on the dragon, the way it was gushing blood as it fell​​
            Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

            #LegalizeAwoo

            A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
            An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
            A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
            A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

            "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
            "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
            Passion and Serenity are one.
            I gain power by understanding both.
            In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
            I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
            The Force is united within me.
          • Options
            markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
            shadowfang240 wrote: »
            it almost looked like that ice spear (which is the 'scorpion' bolt i guess) hit a major artery on the dragon, the way it was gushing blood as it fell​​
            Different fight. The scorpion is a giant vehicle mounted crossbow. it's at 5:50 in this one:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioMJMZptFw0
            But yeah, giant crossbow bolt, vs magic spear...
            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
            My character Tsin'xing
            Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
          • Options
            starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
            Meh, who needs dragons when you have spaceships capable of reducing inhabited planets to smoking cinders in short order?
            "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
            — Sabaton, "Great War"
            VZ9ASdg.png

            Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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            markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
            What about dragons capable of reducing space ships to cinders? :p
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0cs8X8GPPA
            well... ok that one didn't succeed, but enh...
            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
            My character Tsin'xing
            Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
          • Options
            xungnguyenxungnguyen Member Posts: 233 Arc User
            Starsword, I'm trying to negate the need for shuttles/fighters in planetside battles against the Hurq hence the dragons. I basically went with a fantasy solution to a sci fi problem.
            temporal_lapras__royal_flagship__by_lapry101-dbutq96.png


            "Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
          • Options
            theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
            starswordc wrote: »
            Meh, who needs dragons when you have spaceships capable of reducing inhabited planets to smoking cinders in short order?

            a dragon air force would be epic, throw in a few giants on mammoths and you have a winner
            NMXb2ph.png
              "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
              -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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