it is not, given they said in the past before the attack even started that no iconian had been born in a long time
I thought they said that the birth of Iconians were a rare event?
I could be mistaken there, it's been a while since I last played the episode.
Either way, I don't think they even said that they couldn't give birth anymore. It was just hinted at by Trendy at the time, maybe they just didn't have much reason to 'create' new Iconians. They do have a reason now so that may change things too.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
i doubt it matters how much of a reason they have now - energy beings, even partial ones, tend to have a REALLY hard time procreating; probably even moreso than the iconians did back when they had fully physical forms
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Terribly incorrect, in fact, the whole "Borg Disconnected" pve queue was all about the Borg Queen attempting to re-assimilate freed Cooperative vessels because the Borg had suffered such major losses against the Alliance, the Vaadwaur, the Undine, and their protracted war with the Voth, that the Queen felt is was the only way to keep The Collective alive. She even states in the mission that "[she] wont let the Collective fall here" because that mission is THAT critical to the Collective's survival due to how far back they were set, and how many losses they had suffered.
Not to mention
-Janeway destroyed their primary Unimatrix at the end of Voyager
-We softened up the Unimatrix the Borg made in Fluidic space so the Undine could destroy it at the end of "Fluid Dynamics"
-We took out the Unimatrix the Borg were using to stage their invasion of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants "Into the Hive/Hive Onslaught"
-We let the Voth and Undine destroy the new primary Unimatrix the Borg Queen was using to try to rebuild The Collective in "Borg Disconnected"
All known Borg Unimatrix stations have been destroyed, and nothing suggests that "most" or even any, still remain.
I don't think it is stated anywhere that the re-assimilation was needed or critical to their survival. It could well have been the preferred option because liberated drones possess interesting knowledge that could be used to beat the Borg.
That she won't let the Collective fall 'here' can mean different things, as we've discussed about before. She might simply mean that she doesn't want to see the collective fall in that specific location - taking 'here' thus literally.
- What Janeway did is no longer relevant, more than 30 years have passed since then.
- The Unimatrix in Fluidic space is yet another example of an expedition force.
- Expedition force
- See above.
In Borg disconnected we don't see the destruction of the entire Unimatrix, same holds for Hive space.
All the losses were ships and drones that were deemed expendable in the first place. That is the basic logic behind an offensive action. The Federation has been fighting defensive wars for a long time, containing damage in one place, recovering lost territory in others and even it is far from defeated. So even fighting in a defensive manner doesn't mean much with respect to the question whether such a power is close to being defeated.
What makes you think that those other powers that have only suffered setbacks in their offensive actions are close to being defeated when they didn't even have to fight in a defensive manner, and to protect their own territory yet?
If country A takes territory away from country B and further invades country C, then country B isn't 'defeating' country A by merely recapturing its lost territory. Nor is it 'defeating' country A by liberating country C. It is winning and recovering, and country A is incurring losses. But it's not being defeated, nor is it in any existential threat. Those are quite different things.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
i doubt it matters how much of a reason they have now - energy beings, even partial ones, tend to have a REALLY hard time procreating; probably even moreso than the iconians did back when they had fully physical forms
No idea about how difficult it would be. I always thought it was simply because they lost their World Heart.
Maybe that's not the case. Either way, I would like to see an episode that continues the story and which lets us show what is happening on Iconia.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
AN idea I think would be interesting to see done, and we know that at least they do exist in the mirror universe. What about a temporal based expansion that had the mirror universe equivalent to the prime universe's temporal alliance in the future actually begin to interfere with the prime universe's timeline.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
AN idea I think would be interesting to see done, and we know that at least they do exist in the mirror universe. What about a temporal based expansion that had the mirror universe equivalent to the prime universe's temporal alliance in the future actually begin to interfere with the prime universe's timeline.
There is no MU equivalent to the Prime Unvierse's Alliance because the Terran Empire has conquered everyone in their unvierse.
There is only the Terran Empire
Actually there is, or at least that is how you can take some of the lore they have given us so far in game, and they would fit in the same concept of a time governing/ruling alliance/empire that comes about in the future of either of the universes. Since that is who as far as we can tell had given Mirror Leeta technology from the mirror universe's own future, unless the empire falls actually which the travelers not giving her more technology fearing what she might do, that we see her using an augmenting her own fleet with. Also that far in the future that the Terran empire is able to rule time would be a twisted mirror of how the alliance attempts to maintain the time-line in the prime universe of sto.
Hell Leeta had gained enough advanced technology (even with those that gave it to her holding back) was able to destroy the Iconians 200,000 years in the past, before getting a vision from the pah-wraiths. That could be interesting as well seeing her allying with the Pah-wraiths, which in a ds9 expansion, or near the end of would fit quite well actually.
An empire is based on imperalist goals that usually come with expansionist ambitions.
An Alliance is two or more groups coming together for mutual goals. disputes can be worked out in diplomacy instead of war. The KCA is an alliance based on mutual protection from the Terran Empire, in addition to the trading and cultural exchanges.
The KCA we know was never defeated in DS9, although the duplicious nature of the Bajorans are a problem to both Terran and K-C ambitions. It is entirely likely that the Mirror Leeta is looking to create a dominant Bajoran empire as it's empress of her own by using the Terrans to her own aims. however she is playing around with powers she barely knows and would never understand if it meant more power.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That is the thing a equivalent does not need to be the same actually, just as the Terran empire is the equivalent to the federations a temporal empire would be the equivalent to the temporal alliance. They both show how things might have gone if events had happened in the setting differently, even how a temporal empire would have no issues directly affecting the timeline to maintain their empire, while the temporal alliance has a near hands off approach to how they maintain the timeline.
Hell Leeta had gained enough advanced technology (even with those that gave it to her holding back) was able to destroy the Iconians 200,000 years in the past
That doesn't require advanced technology at all, as even back in ToS the Federation was able to go back in time with ease to due survey missions about Earth's past.
Yes, there is. The Terran Empire is that Alliance. Just like the Federation dominates the Prime Universe Alliance, the Terran Empire rules its conquered domains. It's just more harsh in its regulations.
I know you really don't understand this game, or even Trek lore, but the Federation doesn't "dominate" the Alliance, in fact, the Klingons and Romulans do more then the Feds do in the Alliance.
Yup went an reread the text, and such on the missions, forgot about that with those. Yet did not replay them as much, so not that surprised. Though was not saying that she needed alot of advanced technology to go back in time, but that based on the mirror Iconians still being atleast close to as advanced as they were in the prime iconians, that she would have needed quite abit more advanced technology to destroy them (not merely defeat, but destroy).
It might be true that the Romulans an KDF do more now, when you look at the future it does look like the federation style is adopted more than the Romulan or KDF style (even with how little we see of the future). The alliance even takes on more of a federation design in how things are done, with the KDF/Romulans acting more like the founding races of the Federation had. Even the kdf an Romulan generals we deal with seem more annoyed with the method that the alliance is using during the arcs, ffeeling we shoudl act faster an deal with things more dirctly.
Comments
I thought they said that the birth of Iconians were a rare event?
I could be mistaken there, it's been a while since I last played the episode.
Either way, I don't think they even said that they couldn't give birth anymore. It was just hinted at by Trendy at the time, maybe they just didn't have much reason to 'create' new Iconians. They do have a reason now so that may change things too.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I don't think it is stated anywhere that the re-assimilation was needed or critical to their survival. It could well have been the preferred option because liberated drones possess interesting knowledge that could be used to beat the Borg.
That she won't let the Collective fall 'here' can mean different things, as we've discussed about before. She might simply mean that she doesn't want to see the collective fall in that specific location - taking 'here' thus literally.
- What Janeway did is no longer relevant, more than 30 years have passed since then.
- The Unimatrix in Fluidic space is yet another example of an expedition force.
- Expedition force
- See above.
In Borg disconnected we don't see the destruction of the entire Unimatrix, same holds for Hive space.
All the losses were ships and drones that were deemed expendable in the first place. That is the basic logic behind an offensive action. The Federation has been fighting defensive wars for a long time, containing damage in one place, recovering lost territory in others and even it is far from defeated. So even fighting in a defensive manner doesn't mean much with respect to the question whether such a power is close to being defeated.
What makes you think that those other powers that have only suffered setbacks in their offensive actions are close to being defeated when they didn't even have to fight in a defensive manner, and to protect their own territory yet?
If country A takes territory away from country B and further invades country C, then country B isn't 'defeating' country A by merely recapturing its lost territory. Nor is it 'defeating' country A by liberating country C. It is winning and recovering, and country A is incurring losses. But it's not being defeated, nor is it in any existential threat. Those are quite different things.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
No idea about how difficult it would be. I always thought it was simply because they lost their World Heart.
Maybe that's not the case. Either way, I would like to see an episode that continues the story and which lets us show what is happening on Iconia.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Actually there is, or at least that is how you can take some of the lore they have given us so far in game, and they would fit in the same concept of a time governing/ruling alliance/empire that comes about in the future of either of the universes. Since that is who as far as we can tell had given Mirror Leeta technology from the mirror universe's own future, unless the empire falls actually which the travelers not giving her more technology fearing what she might do, that we see her using an augmenting her own fleet with. Also that far in the future that the Terran empire is able to rule time would be a twisted mirror of how the alliance attempts to maintain the time-line in the prime universe of sto.
Hell Leeta had gained enough advanced technology (even with those that gave it to her holding back) was able to destroy the Iconians 200,000 years in the past, before getting a vision from the pah-wraiths. That could be interesting as well seeing her allying with the Pah-wraiths, which in a ds9 expansion, or near the end of would fit quite well actually.
An Alliance is two or more groups coming together for mutual goals. disputes can be worked out in diplomacy instead of war. The KCA is an alliance based on mutual protection from the Terran Empire, in addition to the trading and cultural exchanges.
The KCA we know was never defeated in DS9, although the duplicious nature of the Bajorans are a problem to both Terran and K-C ambitions. It is entirely likely that the Mirror Leeta is looking to create a dominant Bajoran empire as it's empress of her own by using the Terrans to her own aims. however she is playing around with powers she barely knows and would never understand if it meant more power.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yup went an reread the text, and such on the missions, forgot about that with those. Yet did not replay them as much, so not that surprised. Though was not saying that she needed alot of advanced technology to go back in time, but that based on the mirror Iconians still being atleast close to as advanced as they were in the prime iconians, that she would have needed quite abit more advanced technology to destroy them (not merely defeat, but destroy).
It might be true that the Romulans an KDF do more now, when you look at the future it does look like the federation style is adopted more than the Romulan or KDF style (even with how little we see of the future). The alliance even takes on more of a federation design in how things are done, with the KDF/Romulans acting more like the founding races of the Federation had. Even the kdf an Romulan generals we deal with seem more annoyed with the method that the alliance is using during the arcs, ffeeling we shoudl act faster an deal with things more dirctly.