Accuracy - The Final Verdict

bossheisenberg

I have heard that excess accuracy turns into crits - what is the evidence for this?

I've also heard that it only works against other players, not NPCs. Why would that be the case?

Anyone who can weigh in with some facts I would greatly appreciate.

rattler2

Most people will probably tell you to just stack crit over everything ever because it can't hurt you if its already dead.

I have a friend who says that my Acc x3 beam arrays are a PvPers nightmare. Main reason: I hit more often. All those people with evasion suddenly find themselves actually getting hit.

As for the excess Acc turning into crit... I honestly haven't noticed, but I'm not a high crit guy.

bossheisenberg

Thanks for the reply. I think I should clarify what I mean when I say, supposedly, that accuracy turns into crit. I am not talking about increased ability to hit your target, which is what "accuracy" is supposed to do, but when accuracy exceeds a targets defense, the excess overflow instead somehow become crit chance and severity. I have seen a formula, which I want to say is something like 10 points in accuracy overflow equals 1% crit chance and 10% severity (not actual formula).

Well I have tried stacking heaps of accuracy, and I have tried doing without and I do not notice any difference whatsoever. I think if the overflow actually turns into crit that would be very noticeable, both onscreen and in parse.

legendarylycan

it certainly did used to...but after the skill revamp, they probably either took that out or broke it

if there's no mention of it at all in the accuracy skills description under the tac tree, i'd say the former​​

rattler2

bossheisenberg wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I think I should clarify what I mean when I say, supposedly, that accuracy turns into crit. I am not talking about increased ability to hit your target, which is what "accuracy" is supposed to do, but when accuracy exceeds a targets defense, the excess overflow instead somehow become crit chance and severity. I have seen a formula, which I want to say is something like 10 points in accuracy overflow equals 1% crit chance and 10% severity (not actual formula).

Well I have tried stacking heaps of accuracy, and I have tried doing without and I do not notice any difference whatsoever. I think if the overflow actually turns into crit that would be very noticeable, both onscreen and in parse.

I actually am familiar with the overflow thing. I'm just saying in MY experience I haven't noticed because I'm not high on my crit.

lopequil

From the sto subreddit:

Accuracy Overflow = (Acc-Def) / ( (Acc-Def) + 100)
CrtC bonus is one eighth of the result and CrtD bonus is one half.

For example: Your accuracy rating is 200 and your opponent's defence is 50.
Overflow = 150/250, or 0.6.
This should mean a bonus to CrtC of 7.5% and a bonus to CrtD of 30%, assuming I've understood this correctly.

As far as I know this is still how it works.

seriousdave

Found an relatively new reddit thread about acc VS defense: https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/6o56uh/accuracy_and_defense/
From what I've got out of this you'd need a whole lot of extra acc from various sources to get your acc rating high enough to get a meaningful result.
Instead of stuffing every slot you've got with acc stuff you might just wanna use crtH tac consoles and a few traits and use the other console and traits slots for more meaningful things.

artanisen

My input of observations and bit of knowledge of using it
If you have accuracy maxed out any extra accuracy you gain
will spill over into critical chance and increase your chance
or procing your weapon effects.

For as the accuracy critical chance of what i had observed from using
for so long is Accuracy has its own hidden critical chance stat that
doesn't stack with the critical chance stat.

where2r1

I use ACC to help me with hit with my cannons, because I am not really all that great with piloting (but then I am not good at video games). It compensates for not getting my nose on point, perfectly.

Also, helps muchly with the Hur'q.

Either that or it is the trait "Precise"...I have to check who has that slotted and if it really is making a difference. Hur'q considered small targets? Not sure of that either....they look small to me.

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Trait:_Precise

charon83

My klingon actually got a pretty neat build around ACC with the new Bajoran Interceptor. With the right traits, two pilot abilities and the interceptors mastery trait it can actually stack the accuracy rating above 200. And yes, when you attack it does turn that overhead of accuracy versus the defense rating of the enemy you're shooting at into crit chance AND crit damage. As a Sci the klingon sits at just under 100 severity and 26% chance, however when i'm fighting the severity easily hits 200% and more as well as a crit chance of above 35% (it's not just accuracy, but the excess on that specific build contributes to it). Keep in mind, this build doesn't use accuracy on weapons but the standard crtd which is a bit more effective considering the rather "lower end" crit chance that character has.

It's rather unconventional but turns a sci-klingon into a crit mashine which i didn't think was possible the way i did it. So to answer your question: it works exactly like that. just don't ask me for the math behind it.

starswordc

charon83 wrote: »

My klingon actually got a pretty neat build around ACC with the new Bajoran Interceptor. With the right traits, two pilot abilities and the interceptors mastery trait it can actually stack the accuracy rating above 200. And yes, when you attack it does turn that overhead of accuracy versus the defense rating of the enemy you're shooting at into crit chance AND crit damage. As a Sci the klingon sits at just under 100 severity and 26% chance, however when i'm fighting the severity easily hits 200% and more as well as a crit chance of above 35% (it's not just accuracy, but the excess on that specific build contributes to it). Keep in mind, this build doesn't use accuracy on weapons but the standard crtd which is a bit more effective considering the rather "lower end" crit chance that character has.

It's rather unconventional but turns a sci-klingon into a crit mashine which i didn't think was possible the way i did it. So to answer your question: it works exactly like that. just don't ask me for the math behind it.

Huh. I might have to grind a bunch of the [Acc] antipro DHCs from that one mission and try that build.

charon83

starswordc wrote: »

Huh. I might have to grind a bunch of the [Acc] antipro DHCs from that one mission and try that build.

Actually not using any acc on weapons with that. Only via traits and the interceptor which comes with a heavy acc boost mastery trait in combination with it's pilot seating. The rest is a full on crit build. The idea behind my klingon is to make up the lack of severity with accuracy, which works quiet well with that ship specifically due to it's boff seating. Also and a little bit of extra info there: miracle worker/specialist specs are both needed for crit + survivability, so no other boosts via intel/pilot spec. The whle thing just requires some very specific setup otherwise you'll run out of chrit chance/base severity needed and obviously surviability. Also since the acc boost works with pilot abilities, two (attack patter lambda and whatever else makes sense for you) should be more then enough to not skimp on anything else. Crit stuff mixed with high cd reducton like a2b and generally keeping the cooldowns down to get that acc bonus as often as possible. However that character is not even near the finish line, but i do dare to say, it's a very fun and effective build in my opinion.

meimeitoo

charon83 wrote: »

My klingon actually got a pretty neat build around ACC with the new Bajoran Interceptor. With the right traits, two pilot abilities and the interceptors mastery trait it can actually stack the accuracy rating above 200. And yes, when you attack it does turn that overhead of accuracy versus the defense rating of the enemy you're shooting at into crit chance AND crit damage. As a Sci the klingon sits at just under 100 severity and 26% chance, however when i'm fighting the severity easily hits 200% and more as well as a crit chance of above 35% (it's not just accuracy, but the excess on that specific build contributes to it). Keep in mind, this build doesn't use accuracy on weapons but the standard crtd which is a bit more effective considering the rather "lower end" crit chance that character has.

It's rather unconventional but turns a sci-klingon into a crit mashine which i didn't think was possible the way i did it. So to answer your question: it works exactly like that. just don't ask me for the math behind it.

I wonder, though, what the opportunity cost amounts to, using, say, [Acc]x4 versus [CrtD]x3 [Pen]!?

As I'm sure I've stated before, math and I are not really an 'item.' My reasoning, regarding the amount of [Acc] required (PVE), goes like "I lose like 30 [Acc] on BFAW", so I need to have, at the very least, 30 natively. Most of my builds sit around 40-60 [Acc]. I can get considerably more, if I wanted to, but, like I said, I generally fear the opportunity cost of doing so will be too high.

tunebreaker

meimeitoo wrote: »

charon83 wrote: »

My klingon actually got a pretty neat build around ACC with the new Bajoran Interceptor. With the right traits, two pilot abilities and the interceptors mastery trait it can actually stack the accuracy rating above 200. And yes, when you attack it does turn that overhead of accuracy versus the defense rating of the enemy you're shooting at into crit chance AND crit damage. As a Sci the klingon sits at just under 100 severity and 26% chance, however when i'm fighting the severity easily hits 200% and more as well as a crit chance of above 35% (it's not just accuracy, but the excess on that specific build contributes to it). Keep in mind, this build doesn't use accuracy on weapons but the standard crtd which is a bit more effective considering the rather "lower end" crit chance that character has.

It's rather unconventional but turns a sci-klingon into a crit mashine which i didn't think was possible the way i did it. So to answer your question: it works exactly like that. just don't ask me for the math behind it.

I wonder, though, what the opportunity cost amounts to, using, say, [Acc]x4 versus [CrtD]x3 [Pen]!?

As I'm sure I've stated before, math and I are not really an 'item.' My reasoning, regarding the amount of [Acc] required (PVE), goes like "I lose like 30 [Acc] on BFAW", so I need to have, at the very least, 30 natively. Most of my builds sit around 40-60 [Acc]. I can get considerably more, if I wanted to, but, like I said, I generally fear the opportunity cost of doing so will be too high.

Let's simplify your example even further and compare [Acc] to [CrtD] (or [CrtH]). Also let's work under presumption that before adding the Acc mod, your acc = opponent's def, meaning 100% hit chance and no overflow.

Now let's add that accuracy modifier, so your acc > opponent's def by 10.
10/(10+100) ~ 0.09.
That means +1.125% CrtH (0.09*0.125) and +4.5% CrtD (0.09*0.5).

Another example: Your own accuracy is already 25% higher than enemy's defense, and let's add [Acc] on top of it (I'm not sure what are average NPC defense values, but they can't be too high, so 25% "overflow" could be pretty common).
Before [Acc]:
25/(25+100) = 0.2 (+2.5% CrtH and 10% CrtD)

After adding [Acc]:
35/(35+100) = 0.26 (+3.25% CrtH and 13% CrtD)
So you gained 0.75% CrtH and 3% CrtD from adding that [Acc] modifier.

Meanwhile, a [CrtH] modifier gives you +2% CrtH and [CrtD] +20% CrtD. Make your own conclusions about opportunity costs.

legendarylycan

needless to say, [Acc] needs just as much buffing as [Dmg] needed before it eventually got it (but only for space - ground [Dmg] is still TRIBBLE cat1)

but [CrtH] needs it even worse than [Acc]​​

meimeitoo

tunebreaker wrote: »

meimeitoo wrote: »

charon83 wrote: »

My klingon actually got a pretty neat build around ACC with the new Bajoran Interceptor. With the right traits, two pilot abilities and the interceptors mastery trait it can actually stack the accuracy rating above 200. And yes, when you attack it does turn that overhead of accuracy versus the defense rating of the enemy you're shooting at into crit chance AND crit damage. As a Sci the klingon sits at just under 100 severity and 26% chance, however when i'm fighting the severity easily hits 200% and more as well as a crit chance of above 35% (it's not just accuracy, but the excess on that specific build contributes to it). Keep in mind, this build doesn't use accuracy on weapons but the standard crtd which is a bit more effective considering the rather "lower end" crit chance that character has.

It's rather unconventional but turns a sci-klingon into a crit mashine which i didn't think was possible the way i did it. So to answer your question: it works exactly like that. just don't ask me for the math behind it.

I wonder, though, what the opportunity cost amounts to, using, say, [Acc]x4 versus [CrtD]x3 [Pen]!?

As I'm sure I've stated before, math and I are not really an 'item.' My reasoning, regarding the amount of [Acc] required (PVE), goes like "I lose like 30 [Acc] on BFAW", so I need to have, at the very least, 30 natively. Most of my builds sit around 40-60 [Acc]. I can get considerably more, if I wanted to, but, like I said, I generally fear the opportunity cost of doing so will be too high.

Let's simplify your example even further and compare [Acc] to [CrtD] (or [CrtH]). Also let's work under presumption that before adding the Acc mod, your acc = opponent's def, meaning 100% hit chance and no overflow.

Now let's add that accuracy modifier, so your acc > opponent's def by 10.
10/(10+100) ~ 0.09.
That means +1.125% CrtH (0.09*0.125) and +4.5% CrtD (0.09*0.5).

Another example: Your own accuracy is already 25% higher than enemy's defense, and let's add [Acc] on top of it (I'm not sure what are average NPC defense values, but they can't be too high, so 25% "overflow" could be pretty common).
Before [Acc]:
25/(25+100) = 0.2 (+2.5% CrtH and 10% CrtD)

After adding [Acc]:
35/(35+100) = 0.26 (+3.25% CrtH and 13% CrtD)
So you gained 0.75% CrtH and 3% CrtD from adding that [Acc] modifier.

Meanwhile, a [CrtH] modifier gives you +2% CrtH and [CrtD] +20% CrtD. Make your own conclusions about opportunity costs.

Lucid and conclusive, as ever. Thanks!

charon83

tunebreaker wrote: »

Let's simplify your example even further and compare [Acc] to [CrtD] (or [CrtH]). Also let's work under presumption that before adding the Acc mod, your acc = opponent's def, meaning 100% hit chance and no overflow.

Now let's add that accuracy modifier, so your acc > opponent's def by 10.
10/(10+100) ~ 0.09.
That means +1.125% CrtH (0.09*0.125) and +4.5% CrtD (0.09*0.5).

Another example: Your own accuracy is already 25% higher than enemy's defense, and let's add [Acc] on top of it (I'm not sure what are average NPC defense values, but they can't be too high, so 25% "overflow" could be pretty common).
Before [Acc]:
25/(25+100) = 0.2 (+2.5% CrtH and 10% CrtD)

After adding [Acc]:
35/(35+100) = 0.26 (+3.25% CrtH and 13% CrtD)
So you gained 0.75% CrtH and 3% CrtD from adding that [Acc] modifier.

Meanwhile, a [CrtH] modifier gives you +2% CrtH and [CrtD] +20% CrtD. Make your own conclusions about opportunity costs.

Thanks for putting that together, so yeah, if you were to take my build in consideration - stick with mostly crit and def. the crtd/pen on weapons. Considering re-engeneering costs barely anything, just buy the cheapest Pen weapons from the exchange. The dual phasers i bought cost me each about 100k and with omega + rare quality upgrade stuff they went to gold very quickly.

To calrify a bit more: the build i do use on my klingon - the heavy acc on it is a substitute to a standard crit build, the weird thing about it is that it is centered around a sci character which atleast in my experience has difficulty stacking severity, so with the interceptor again - very ship specific due to boff layout, the extremely high acc substitutes the lacking severity. When parsing ICA for instance, the acc and everything else around it stacks the severity to around 290-320% and a good 10-14% crit depending on procs/triggers and execution.

bossheisenberg

Thanks for the great replies, it is nice to finally see some real facts about accuracy. This turned into a good thread with some real discussion about the mechanics of the game. I will have to do some more testing to see if accuracy is going to be a good fit for my build, at the expense of other possible damage boosting stuff.

meimeitoo

tunebreaker wrote: »

meimeitoo wrote: »

charon83 wrote: »

My klingon actually got a pretty neat build around ACC with the new Bajoran Interceptor. With the right traits, two pilot abilities and the interceptors mastery trait it can actually stack the accuracy rating above 200. And yes, when you attack it does turn that overhead of accuracy versus the defense rating of the enemy you're shooting at into crit chance AND crit damage. As a Sci the klingon sits at just under 100 severity and 26% chance, however when i'm fighting the severity easily hits 200% and more as well as a crit chance of above 35% (it's not just accuracy, but the excess on that specific build contributes to it). Keep in mind, this build doesn't use accuracy on weapons but the standard crtd which is a bit more effective considering the rather "lower end" crit chance that character has.

It's rather unconventional but turns a sci-klingon into a crit mashine which i didn't think was possible the way i did it. So to answer your question: it works exactly like that. just don't ask me for the math behind it.

I wonder, though, what the opportunity cost amounts to, using, say, [Acc]x4 versus [CrtD]x3 [Pen]!?

As I'm sure I've stated before, math and I are not really an 'item.' My reasoning, regarding the amount of [Acc] required (PVE), goes like "I lose like 30 [Acc] on BFAW", so I need to have, at the very least, 30 natively. Most of my builds sit around 40-60 [Acc]. I can get considerably more, if I wanted to, but, like I said, I generally fear the opportunity cost of doing so will be too high.

Let's simplify your example even further and compare [Acc] to [CrtD] (or [CrtH]). Also let's work under presumption that before adding the Acc mod, your acc = opponent's def, meaning 100% hit chance and no overflow.

On that note, btw, how much would you say is generally needed to 'break even', so to speak? ('meaning 100% hit chance and no overflow'). I'm usually around 40 ship [Acc]; and a latest CCA parse put me at a 99.39% hit rate, and 99.12% for a CSA. Which, honestly, is really enough for me.

Guess I kinda answered my own question. But maybe even 40 is more than strictly needed.

meimeitoo

bossheisenberg wrote: »

Thanks for the great replies, it is nice to finally see some real facts about accuracy. This turned into a good thread with some real discussion about the mechanics of the game. I will have to do some more testing to see if accuracy is going to be a good fit for my build, at the expense of other possible damage boosting stuff.

Well, when tunebreaker steps in, a guy from the Reddit 'Elite' crowd ('Elite' in an entirely positive sense), you can always be assured the truth is not only out there, but has landed right on your doorstep.

bossheisenberg

meimeitoo wrote: »

bossheisenberg wrote: »

Thanks for the great replies, it is nice to finally see some real facts about accuracy. This turned into a good thread with some real discussion about the mechanics of the game. I will have to do some more testing to see if accuracy is going to be a good fit for my build, at the expense of other possible damage boosting stuff.

Well, when tunebreaker steps in, a guy from the Reddit 'Elite' crowd ('Elite' in an entirely positive sense), you can always be assured the truth is not only out there, but has landed right on your doorstep.

Yeah, was hoping to catch one of the big fish with something a little more interesting than the usual noob level stuff.

tunebreaker

@meimeitoo is too kind as always. Nowadays I'm "elite" only in the sense that my main game is Elite: Dangerous.

About "breaking even" - strictly in PvE already a single point in Targeting Expertise (+50% acc) is totally alright and you shouldn't ever drop below 99% hit rate (reaching exactly 100%, constantly, is something not even the highest performers manage). As I said before, NPC defense values tend to be pretty low.

However, I have to admit that it's been a long time since I used something that *really* decreases your acc (like FAW1), so if you parse and happen to witness your overall hit rate drop abysmally, you might want to get some boosts.

postinggum

Remember that slowing a moving target reduces their defense, boosting the overflow from the other direction.

vampeiyre

High accuracy is essential if you're blasting at Tac captains in Pilot ships in PVP, but in PVE it's hard to think of a scenario where it would be a stat of paramount importance to you.

bobs1111

Accuracy overflow is good... but in PvE land is only going to be fantastic in very specific circumstances.

There are 2 ways to induce overflow. One is to stack Acc to very high numbers. With ship equipment, attack patterns, ship traits, space traits ect. The other is to debuff your targets defense numbers. You gain defense mainly through speed. NPCs have very little bonus defense so if you have a science control or drain build that is stopping NPCs, you tend to be sending them in into negative defense numbers. Once your target is in a negative defense position over flow can kick in. (a stopped ship with no +defense bonuses will be at -10... NPCs for the most part if you stop them will have negative defense values)

In PvP this is why its super important to ALWAYS be moving. In PvP you need control breaks, tractor breaks and you need to resist things like engine offlines. Sitting still is going to make you dead. Skills like Lambda + lobi consoles ect mean most pvpers have easily over 100 acc at all times... so loosing your defense bonus is going to make you splode.

ACC on weapons frankly isn't really as important in PvP as it used to be... thanks to a ton of +acc stuffs cryptic has added the last while.