Is Phaser now king?

vetteguy904

with the quantum console, the CC 2 pc and now the DOMINO console I think phasers now hwve the most non tac console boosts. yes Ap has the inherent crit, but at what pint does flat DPS have parity with crit?

slifox

This is good. I woulld like to second this question and have someone with some math to back up their answer.

salazarraze

Probably not. Disruptors still have the terran beam and DHC plus share alot of console bonuses with phasers. Plus the disruptor proc is obviously better than crappy phasers.

vampeiyre

Well, since phasers have long been the loser weapon-type with the worst proc and least amount of boosting equipment since launch, I can't say I feel bad about this change of affairs.

alexraptorr

Disruptors also have the Nausicaan set with double damage bonuses from the console and the 3-piece set bonus, and the energy torpedo is a pretty sweet deal too that Phasers do not yet have.

kronin

I would like to nominate Plasma beams as the worst beams. It's the only beam that can't double up on Omni's. Plasmas have the fewest sets, and those sets don't measure up to the better ones in the game. Plasma beams also tend to get paired up with those awful plasma torps. The DOT proc doesn't stack. Maybe the whole point of plasma is to make the other beams look better? It's a shame, because I like the idea of plasma beams. I do have a ship that uses plasmas pretty well, but not as well as my other ships use the other beams. I hope the next expansion makes plasmas competitive with other beams. New mission rewards or new reputations?

avoozuul

You could put the DOMINO console on a Phantom in addition to its own phaser boosting console to get more of a phaser damage boost.

ssbn655

No. The set boosts, consoles, etc. don't help them one bit climbing out of the stinking pit of mediocrity.

rattler2

I don't know about making it the king, but its certainly up there now with everything that works with it.

turbomagnus

...I'm so having to fight making a joke about a certain line about kings from Discovery...

Phaser has certainly been pulled from the gutter the last couple years; Mirror Agony, Kelvin Emitters, and now Discovery Linked phasers, plus the Bajoran Space Set. I don't necessarily know about 'king', but considering it's the 'flagship' weapon type for Star Trek as a franchise, I'd say Phasers are finally getting to shine.

Now, though, as kronin mentioned, it's Plasma that's at the bottom of the pile (which is a shame because of how awesome Romulan Plasma weapons are) with a lack in supporting consoles and sets...

seaofsorrows

King?

Probably not..

But it's a good move as it helps elevate Phasers to be closer to the top.

We'll have to wait for DPS numbers overall, but I don't see it pushing Phaser ahead of Disruptors. Honestly, I don't think it will even surpass Anti-Proton. AP has fallen out of favor for new flavors but it's still very powerful. On top of the inherent critical damage, it's still boosted by 2 consoles that can go on any ship (Crystaline Absorption, and Polymorphic Probe Array.)

The CC console is a personal taste, but I personally still find it too limiting. I don't like that it's a tactical console and to get it's 2pc bonus means having to equip another piece of the set which I also don't like. The Domino pairs nicely with the Quantum Phase Converter though for a nice boost. If used on a ship like the Phantom that has the Phaser Lance, or a ship like the Vengeance that has a Phaser based ability (Broadside Emitters) or even the Yamato for the lance.. then yeah.. Phaser probably starts to pull ahead.

I would be surprised if Disruptor didn't remain king, but I will say I like that Phaser is getting a much needed boost. A lot of people like to use Phasers because they feel more 'trek' then other types. I use Phasers on most of my characters just because I like them so much, so I for one am happy to get my hands on the Domino console.

dracounguis

I've liked the idea of how plasma weapon work but now that dot mechanic just doesn't really do anything. Plasma does seem to be suffering lately since it's hard to have a weapon doing a dot if things die in 3-6 seconds. Either the dot needs to be ramped up or just made into a extra damage proc like some? of the different plasma weapons have. Make that the standard way it works. OR maybe make the plasma effect a 'free' PEN buff as the plasma 'burns' through armor or something?

dracounguis

And as for phasers, don't forget the Kelvin timeline set does buff phaser. And the Undiscovered set buffs phasers/disruptors/plasma. I don't think you could get every phaser buffing type of non-tac consoles on one ship now.

baudl

dracounguis wrote: »

I've liked the idea of how plasma weapon work but now that dot mechanic just doesn't really do anything. Plasma does seem to be suffering lately since it's hard to have a weapon doing a dot if things die in 3-6 seconds. Either the dot needs to be ramped up or just made into a extra damage proc like some? of the different plasma weapons have. Make that the standard way it works. OR maybe make the plasma effect a 'free' PEN buff as the plasma 'burns' through armor or something?

not even disagreeing, but isn't the main issue that there aren't enough sets and consoles to boost plasma base dmg? Because lets face it, the procs aren't really that relevant within the 50k-100k dps range.
Before all the sets for each weapon type came out, AP was king because it had no proc...then it was the first weapon type to get a set bonus, or console to boost it, which put it further on top. Most other weapon types have now somewhat closed the gap, but need to give up precious console slots to achieve that. Changing the plasma proc would only put plasma on top, without addressing the underlying problem that console (sets) are what make other weapons type "not suck" compared to AP.

seaofsorrows

baudl wrote: »

not even disagreeing, but isn't the main issue that there aren't enough sets and consoles to boost plasma base dmg? Because lets face it, the procs aren't really that relevant within the 50k-100k dps range.

I have to agree here, the biggest problem with Plasma is that there is almost nothing that boosts it. Yeah, I agree that a DOT proc is useless in a game that's all about spike damage, but it's no more or less useless then the Phaser Proc which doesn't even seem to actually do anything.

When it comes to damage boosts, Plasma definitely gets the shaft. I still use it on my Romulan Engineer because there are enough 'generic' boosts to keep the DPS high, but I would love to see Plasma get some actual boosts from set items. Plasma seems to have been long forgotten which is a shame.

avoozuul

I really think the Romulan's should've gotten a special kind of disruptors since disruptors are more canon for them.

rattler2

avoozuul wrote: »

I really think the Romulan's should've gotten a special kind of disruptors since disruptors are more cannon for them.

Except for the fact that gameplay wise, Disruptors were already claimed as the faction damage type by the KDF, just like Phasers are for Feds.

gradii

avoozuul wrote: »

I really think the Romulan's should've gotten a special kind of disruptors since disruptors are more canon for them.

We call this disruptor "Romulan Plasma" it's even got the disruptor proc.

jade1280

No one expects protonic polaron damage.

angrytarg

The weak phaser proc isn't even present on most phasers isn't it? Xindi got AoE instead, KT knock back, linked a stat boost, agony a dot - do any but vanilla even have the disable proc any more?

seaofsorrows

angrytarg wrote: »

The weak phaser proc isn't even present on most phasers isn't it? Xindi got AoE instead, KT knock back, linked a stat boost, agony a dot - do any but vanilla even have the disable proc any more?

Crafted as well as Fleet Phasers still have the useless default proc.

asuran14

I kinda agree one of the biggest handicaps for phaser is just that the standard proc, that causes a random sub-system to be knocked off line is such a sub-par proc really. Even the shield drain, or the power drain of the tetryon an paloron energy types are better, with the plasma proc being something that has a variable usefulness depending on difficulty an damage output. Though some of the phaser sub-types that drop the sub-system proc are quite good, like phased that has a proc of dealing phaser damage split between all targets within a specific range, the pulse phasers that have a disruptor like phaser resistance debuff, and even the bio-matter phaser that has a radiation proc on it with some nice secondary de-buffs it applies.

I always thought it would be interesting if they gave the plasma energy type a stacking plasma based proc. I could see it that the proc might leave a plasma residue on the target, with the stacks determining how much damage is dealt to the target when the stacks reach a cap, or when the target has died the stacks explode dealing pllsma damage to targets in a short range of the ship. Though I could also seeing that maybe when the target dies it does not deal an plasma damage in the aoe, but merely applies one to two plasma residue stacks to targets in a short radius.

questerius

avoozuul wrote: »

You could put the DOMINO console on a Phantom in addition to its own phaser boosting console to get more of a phaser damage boost.

That might be worth testing..

bossheisenberg

It's about time phasers got some love. They still don't have their own reputation, just a half-rep with the counter command set. The standard phaser proc is about the most useless there is. The whole "subsystem offline" mechanic in this game is a complete joke. It's almost as bad as the alive/dead crew thing they got rid of. I mean if a subsystem was actually offline for a realistic amount of time it might cause some real grief but half a second amounts to near zero effect. It may have had some use years and years ago but now with all the hot restarts and everything else that reduce the impact, there's no real benefit.

I've got a new phaser build which is quickly becoming my favorite, with the phaser quad cannon now upgradeable that thing hits like a fully loaded semi, and throw in the trilithium phaser, pulse phasers, and sensor linked phasers, makes a formidable build.

"with the quantum console, the CC 2 pc and now the DOMINO console I think phasers now hwve the most non tac console boosts. yes Ap has the inherent crit, but at what pint does flat DPS have parity with crit?"

Maybe some of the top players want to weigh in but I believe that CC two piece is utter garbage, you are much better off putting in any of the numerous weapons/consoles that are "must haves" rather than going for that relatively small 7.5% bonus. The non-tac console boosts are probably not nearly as good as, the DOMINO console itself or others even the bio neural crit boost or undiscovered 2 piece, timeline stabilizer, etc. I believe cycle haste and cooldown reduction is going to be far more infuential to your dps than a static 7.5 or even 20% bonus, but could be wrong. If anyone has some actual parse data to confirm, would be great to hear some others comment on the meta.

tigeraries

vampeiyre wrote: »

the worst proc

Would be vanilla Tetryon no? All it does is drains shields... once shields gone... proc does jack.

rattler2

tigeraries wrote: »

vampeiyre wrote: »

the worst proc

Would be vanilla Tetryon no? All it does is drains shields... once shields gone... proc does jack.

On the other hand... what's more likely to bring shields down faster if the only variable is the proc? Tetryon or Phaser? Hell... lets even say AP.

Tetryon.

While it is true the Tetryon proc doesn't come into play when the shields are down, the positive effect is that you're hitting bare hull SOONER than other damage types. And should the shield recharge... ZAP! Goes down faster.

Every proc has its advantages and disadvantages. Strip away the bias and variables, Tetryon is actually an underappreciated contender, especially against opponents with strong shields. Honestly standard Phaser stun proc is less useful because it could go off when you're not in a position to exploit an opening if the enemy's shields drop. Or it could take down their Aux power... and its an Escort that doesn't rely on Aux power. So in all honesty... Tetryon is more useful than Phaser in terms of procs.

Now lets also consider how much support there is for Tetryon. We've got stuff in the Nukara Rep, We've got the free Krenim set, we've got the new Tzenkethi set, some of the Tholian gear... There's actually quite a few things that can support a good Tetryon build. Hell... I've got a friend who was able to turn a T5U Meshweaver into a Tetryon NIGHTMARE. It earned the name Noisey Cricket. Small... and DEADLY.

vetteguy904

alexraptorr wrote: »

Disruptors also have the Nausicaan set with double damage bonuses from the console and the 3-piece set bonus, and the energy torpedo is a pretty sweet deal too that Phasers do not yet have.

I don't think the console has a 100% boost to damage

vetteguy904

gradii wrote: »

avoozuul wrote: »

I really think the Romulan's should've gotten a special kind of disruptors since disruptors are more canon for them.

We call this disruptor "Romulan Plasma" it's even got the disruptor proc.

which begs the question.. is that proc worth a modifier?

vampeiyre

It seems to me, be it phaser or disruptor flavor, the new Discovery Lockbox Sensor-linked variety is the king. Procs only trigger per firing cycle now, so any proc is essentially meaningless, and the sensor-linked constant boost to +5 CritD and +5 Defense per weapon equipped is far better than a 2.5% chance per firing cycle to proc literally anything. Combined with the fact that phaser and disruptor at this point seem to have the most supporting sub-sets for boosting damage (Undiscovered, Kelvin Timeline, Quantum Phase, House Martok, Counter-Command, Resonating, Terran Taskforce, D.O.M.I.N.O., etc.) it would be foolish to pick anything else if optimizing DPS is your goal.

vetteguy904

just did an experiment. took my phantom into Earth orbit and started adding equpmen. I DID NOT add any tac consoles. filling all the console slots with weapon boosting consoles from ships and sets, I got:

first number is phaser damage/DPS

dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1023.4/ 1228
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1080.9 /864.7

Add CC deflector
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1034.6 /1241.6
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1092.8 /874.3

add quantum phase converter
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1090.9/ 1309.1
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1152.7/ 922.1

add bajoran shield/ warp core
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1130.9/ 1357.1
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1195.1/ 956.1

add DOMINO
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1164.7/ 1397.6
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1231.0/ 984.8

Add Heavy Phaser Lance
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1198.5/ 1438.2
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1266.9/ 1013.5

add sustained Radiant Field
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1226.7/ 1472
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1296.8/ 1037.5

Add Proton particle stablilizer
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1243.6/ 1492.3
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1314.7/ 1051.7

OR
Add hydrodynamic compensator&Bio molecular Torp
dual cannons MK XIV AC/DM Crtdx2 CrtH Rapid 1371.3/ 1580.8
Beam Array MK XIV ACC Crtd Dmg Over 1388.1/ 1110.5

phaser69

Yes i am LOL