I saw..Rep Items were included..We talking the Rep stor Items or say the Advanced Thoron Beam from the Delta Rep or the Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array?
Yeah, special gear is the stuff I WANT to re-roll. Re-rolling mods on generic beams is fine, but rerolling on special gear is much more important.
So.....where will the "salvage" we receive be stored? I ask this question because unless they give us a completely new Inventory Tab for use, I'm going to get totally screwed over by this new system. My main character is also my main crafter, and so my R&D inventory slots are almost completely full. What happens if you start loading it up with stuff from a new system? I won't have any place for it!
So.....where will the "salvage" we receive be stored? I ask this question because unless they give us a completely new Inventory Tab for use, I'm going to get totally screwed over by this new system. My main character is also my main crafter, and so my R&D inventory slots are almost completely full. What happens if you start loading it up with stuff from a new system? I won't have any place for it!
From the looks of the blog, it's a numeric the same as EC and Dil.
Really? more randomizing TRIBBLE!? As if all the Lockboxes, Promo Packs, and upgrading equipment itself wasn't random already, but now even more? And of course you gotta add another resource! Can't just listen to the community and implement a system that lets us use resources we already have, you gotta add some grind element to it, because if were not grinding were not having fun, that's the logic you're using.
Just make it a system where people can choose to have what they want. Hell, if you want to charge us extra than what you have planned because of that, I'll take it! I honestly would prefer that over re-rolling over and over just for a chance to get what I want! Cause knowing the devs, they'll make all the good/useful mods be like getting a ship out of a box.
1) Why did the team opt to go with a random system instead of say; using craftable/lockbox/reputation mod "tokens/componants" to replace a mod?
To be honest, there were way too many considerations that went into this decision to allow me to provide a simple answer. The simplest is to list just a few: Long-term economic impact, Item desirability, Reward itemization, and much more.
"Long-term economic impact" could mean financial impact on the company or impact on the in-game economy. If they believe that random rewards make them more money, I wish they would just come right out and say that. But whether they explicitly say it or not, all the random rewards in the game are basically telling me, "We don't want you as a customer."
Other games that give mod rerolls have a random chance. So I find this totally acceptable.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
14.5 around corner. From the GIF, this seemed like a missed PR opportunity to showcase this as the Las Vegas convention, considering it reminds me of a.... slot-machine
In terms of cost, our aim was to make this method comparable, or slightly more efficient, than the old "Craft Mk2 and upgrade" method.
So if I understand this correctly, that means that a higher mark item should cost more dilithium to re-roll than a lower mark item. If not, then maybe you might consider implementing this to make sure that the re-roll system isn't abused by the players.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
"Long-term economic impact" could mean financial impact on the company or impact on the in-game economy. If they believe that random rewards make them more money, I wish they would just come right out and say that. But whether they explicitly say it or not, all the random rewards in the game are basically telling me, "We don't want you as a customer."
Random rewards do make them more money. They know it. Everyone knows it. The question is, why does it make you feel bad?
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
In principle it's a good idea- there are items that start off with 3 great modifiers but are suddenly rendered worthless when on becoming UR the 4th sucks. If they're no longer stuck with those modifiers but has a means of changing them it's a good idea.
Blizzard's Diablo 3 has a similar system when you can re-roll a single trait (which locks whichever others the item has), the cost of which increases each time. It also tells you what the possible outcomes are, and gives you a choice of 3 at the end. From then on, only that trait can be changed and the rest become fixed.
So as long as you can control which modifier is up for grabs it's a good idea. I'll probably only be doing it for weapons that start out with 3 great mods and want to improve the 4th, since they'll have a good base to start with. If on the other hand it puts traits that I actually want at risk, I won't touch it with a bargepole!
So.....where will the "salvage" we receive be stored? I ask this question because unless they give us a completely new Inventory Tab for use, I'm going to get totally screwed over by this new system. My main character is also my main crafter, and so my R&D inventory slots are almost completely full. What happens if you start loading it up with stuff from a new system? I won't have any place for it!
From the looks of the blog, it's a numeric the same as EC and Dil.
Well, I really really hope so. Gambling and slot machine tactics aside, I'm looking forward to this system since it would mean I could (presumably) craft gear that I can actually, you know, use?
So.....where will the "salvage" we receive be stored? I ask this question because unless they give us a completely new Inventory Tab for use, I'm going to get totally screwed over by this new system. My main character is also my main crafter, and so my R&D inventory slots are almost completely full. What happens if you start loading it up with stuff from a new system? I won't have any place for it!
From the looks of the blog, it's a numeric the same as EC and Dil.
Well, I really really hope so. Gambling and slot machine tactics aside, I'm looking forward to this system since it would mean I could (presumably) craft gear that I can actually, you know, use?
And of course it's a TRIBBLE slot machine ... You guys got into the wrong business. Casinos, that's the one you were looking for. I don't know how you could confuse online RPG gaming with casinos but hey, we are all humans and make mistakes.
*sigh* at this point one can only just wait until they finally categorize lootboxes and shady schemes like this one as gambling (hopefully this year is the one as several countries are already recognizing it as gambling and preparing new laws) so we can get rid of the worst mistake in gaming history once and for all.
Random rewards do make them more money. They know it. Everyone knows it. The question is, why does it make you feel bad?
I wouldn't say that it makes me feel bad per se. I like knowing what I'm paying for; I don't like paying for a random chance to get something. I don't think this is very hard to understand, and judging by the other comments in this thread, I don't think I'm the only one. Cryptic will continue to make what they think will make them money, and if they continue to make things that I won't pay for, then I won't pay for them.
Borticus once said to "vote with your wallet". Well, I do, but I think an underappreciated principle is that in markets where the seller puts up an item for sale and says "take it or leave it", the "leave it" signals are very weak. Buyers who are satisfied with the price and the product don't have to say anything; they just have to pay. The purchase itself is a strong signal; the lack of a purchase is a weak signal. The seller can count the number of sales, but can't see all the potential buyers who would have bought something if the price had been lower or if the product had been slightly different. The potential buyers can't signal this by making a transaction; the only way they can say it is by speaking up.
In the words of Jean-Luc Picard, "about time." I've wanted a salvage mechanic for ages, and being able to "fix" unwanted stats is great. Not a fan of the random elements, but I can't say I'm surprised by them.
Now about that pet tab...:P
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ Admiral Hawkye L. Narasumas
Commanding Officer, NX-91883 U.S.S. Harmony - Prometheus Class Custom Variant
Fleet Commander, No Fate ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
In terms of cost, our aim was to make this method comparable, or slightly more efficient, than the old "Craft Mk2 and upgrade" method.
Which, if we use an approximation, is ~12k dil for one mod to be rerolled/turned into what we want. If it's less than this, the system will be a net lower cost to people aiming for a specific mod combo.
Upgrades can grant 1 of 4 mods, or a 1/4 chance of the mod you want
For something with a 1/n chance of occuring, you need approximately 3n replicates to have a 95% or greater chance of 1 success
Thus, to get a CrtDx4 beam, we would need to start with 12 CrtDx3 mk2 purples, assuming that each one gets it's additional mod (itself not a guarantee, but let's be optimistic).
The cost of a superior upgrade is 1075 dil to apply, or 12900 for 12, plus however much ec you want to throw in for upgrade boosters (or even more ec for omega upgrades to skip the dil cost all together).
So, 13k dil and possibly 10s of millions in ec as inputs, vs an unknown amount of dil and a new resource which doesn't have other things competing for its use. This should be the basis for comparison.
No one asked for this, no one wants this. Please reconsider.
It's not ideal since we can't specifically choose the mods we want but at least with this, items with a good base can be reworked into what they want instead of potentially becoming vendor trash as it is right now. It just might get expensive doing it though.
I saw..Rep Items were included..We talking the Rep stor Items or say the Advanced Thoron Beam from the Delta Rep or the Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array?
Yeah, special gear is the stuff I WANT to re-roll. Re-rolling mods on generic beams is fine, but rerolling on special gear is much more important.
But how exactly would you go about rerolling, say, the romulan beam, which is effectivly a CrtHx3 item when purple but which has that mod combo baked in? Is it counted as having multiple seperate modifiers under the hood, or is that mod combo part and parcel with the item?
He already said it was done this way (rng) in part for financial reasons.
AKA, how much Dil/EC/etc. can we squeeze out of players for this service.
Player base will be further separated between those that will continue to pour insane amounts of resources into getting every % of dps out of their stuff and the rest who see the costs of this further gambling and say "no way" and feel pushed out of caring about STO even more.
Players don't want to feel like everything they do is just another excuse for Cryptic to reach into their wallets (real or virtual) and extract as much as possible. Try making us want to give you money, not make us feel like we're being mugged.
[...]People are already skipping over item pick ups because it interrupts their dps.[...]
I believe the point of the new system is that they won't skip over item pick ups any more.
Hahaha. Thanks for providing a good laugh.
Most of the pickups are not eligible for re-engineering anyways (lockboxes, consumables, white items) and most of those that are gain absolutely no value from rerolling the mods, as it's completely pointless and wasteful to even try it with green and blue items.
[...]People are already skipping over item pick ups because it interrupts their dps.[...]
I believe the point of the new system is that they won't skip over item pick ups any more.
Hahaha. Thanks for providing a good laugh.
Most of the pickups are not eligible for re-engineering anyways (lockboxes, consumables, white items) and most of those that are gain absolutely no value from rerolling the mods, as it's completely pointless and wasteful to even try it with green and blue items.
Pickups are eligible for conversion into "salvage" though. You know, the stuff that you need to do re-rolls.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
[...]People are already skipping over item pick ups because it interrupts their dps.[...]
I believe the point of the new system is that they won't skip over item pick ups any more.
Hahaha. Thanks for providing a good laugh.
Most of the pickups are not eligible for re-engineering anyways (lockboxes, consumables, white items) and most of those that are gain absolutely no value from rerolling the mods, as it's completely pointless and wasteful to even try it with green and blue items.
Pickups are eligible for conversion into "salvage" though. You know, the stuff that you need to do re-rolls.
Indeed, you're right.
However, I'm interested to see how it's going to work (or well, probably bug out) with Auto-Loot.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Just make it a system where people can choose to have what they want. Hell, if you want to charge us extra than what you have planned because of that, I'll take it! I honestly would prefer that over re-rolling over and over just for a chance to get what I want! Cause knowing the devs, they'll make all the good/useful mods be like getting a ship out of a box.
Is this what you're referring to?
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/7p87ed/introducing_reengineering/dsfgo80/
"Long-term economic impact" could mean financial impact on the company or impact on the in-game economy. If they believe that random rewards make them more money, I wish they would just come right out and say that. But whether they explicitly say it or not, all the random rewards in the game are basically telling me, "We don't want you as a customer."
Blizzard's Diablo 3 has a similar system when you can re-roll a single trait (which locks whichever others the item has), the cost of which increases each time. It also tells you what the possible outcomes are, and gives you a choice of 3 at the end. From then on, only that trait can be changed and the rest become fixed.
So as long as you can control which modifier is up for grabs it's a good idea. I'll probably only be doing it for weapons that start out with 3 great mods and want to improve the 4th, since they'll have a good base to start with. If on the other hand it puts traits that I actually want at risk, I won't touch it with a bargepole!
Well, I really really hope so. Gambling and slot machine tactics aside, I'm looking forward to this system since it would mean I could (presumably) craft gear that I can actually, you know, use?
Providing the slot machine rngesus likes you..
*sigh* at this point one can only just wait until they finally categorize lootboxes and shady schemes like this one as gambling (hopefully this year is the one as several countries are already recognizing it as gambling and preparing new laws) so we can get rid of the worst mistake in gaming history once and for all.
I wouldn't say that it makes me feel bad per se. I like knowing what I'm paying for; I don't like paying for a random chance to get something. I don't think this is very hard to understand, and judging by the other comments in this thread, I don't think I'm the only one. Cryptic will continue to make what they think will make them money, and if they continue to make things that I won't pay for, then I won't pay for them.
Borticus once said to "vote with your wallet". Well, I do, but I think an underappreciated principle is that in markets where the seller puts up an item for sale and says "take it or leave it", the "leave it" signals are very weak. Buyers who are satisfied with the price and the product don't have to say anything; they just have to pay. The purchase itself is a strong signal; the lack of a purchase is a weak signal. The seller can count the number of sales, but can't see all the potential buyers who would have bought something if the price had been lower or if the product had been slightly different. The potential buyers can't signal this by making a transaction; the only way they can say it is by speaking up.
Now about that pet tab...:P
Admiral Hawkye L. Narasumas
Commanding Officer, NX-91883 U.S.S. Harmony - Prometheus Class Custom Variant
Fleet Commander, No Fate
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
Was just thinking the same thing.
Which, if we use an approximation, is ~12k dil for one mod to be rerolled/turned into what we want. If it's less than this, the system will be a net lower cost to people aiming for a specific mod combo.
Upgrades can grant 1 of 4 mods, or a 1/4 chance of the mod you want
For something with a 1/n chance of occuring, you need approximately 3n replicates to have a 95% or greater chance of 1 success
Thus, to get a CrtDx4 beam, we would need to start with 12 CrtDx3 mk2 purples, assuming that each one gets it's additional mod (itself not a guarantee, but let's be optimistic).
The cost of a superior upgrade is 1075 dil to apply, or 12900 for 12, plus however much ec you want to throw in for upgrade boosters (or even more ec for omega upgrades to skip the dil cost all together).
So, 13k dil and possibly 10s of millions in ec as inputs, vs an unknown amount of dil and a new resource which doesn't have other things competing for its use. This should be the basis for comparison.
But how exactly would you go about rerolling, say, the romulan beam, which is effectivly a CrtHx3 item when purple but which has that mod combo baked in? Is it counted as having multiple seperate modifiers under the hood, or is that mod combo part and parcel with the item?
AKA, how much Dil/EC/etc. can we squeeze out of players for this service.
Player base will be further separated between those that will continue to pour insane amounts of resources into getting every % of dps out of their stuff and the rest who see the costs of this further gambling and say "no way" and feel pushed out of caring about STO even more.
Players don't want to feel like everything they do is just another excuse for Cryptic to reach into their wallets (real or virtual) and extract as much as possible. Try making us want to give you money, not make us feel like we're being mugged.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Hahaha. Thanks for providing a good laugh.
Most of the pickups are not eligible for re-engineering anyways (lockboxes, consumables, white items) and most of those that are gain absolutely no value from rerolling the mods, as it's completely pointless and wasteful to even try it with green and blue items.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Pickups are eligible for conversion into "salvage" though. You know, the stuff that you need to do re-rolls.
Indeed, you're right.
However, I'm interested to see how it's going to work (or well, probably bug out) with Auto-Loot.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.