> @leemwatson said:
> Normally I'm all for etiquette and manners, but OP, seriously, this is pushing it.
>
> DSE's adapt to the number of players on the map, and believe me, if a high level player sat there and didn't help (and yes some just sit and AFK for the reward) you'd be screaming blue murder. You want to see a truly terrifying Borg experience, get 5 players in a Borg DSE, it becomes insane, but great fun.
>
> In Beta Quad, the set level of the instance is 28, Alpha is lvl 50 and I think Delta is 60. So players 'could' use their discretion here, but you're making a statement in the Forums, which is only seen by a small number of players. The ONLY thing that can be done to change this is to level limit Beta DSE's......but then, who'll be there to cover people's collective asses!?
I have heard from a friend DSEs are even better on console, apparently sometimes after defeating all waves in the DSE they spawn a dread wave, I watched it happen once and I've never seen it happen on PC and I play a lot of DSEs.
As far as the "etiquette" thing goes, if I'm in a dse with 1 other player I'll split off to the oposite side spawns, but if I wipe my group and he has more than one left I'll take them. If I have have more than 1 other player I just smash anything red, thats what they are all doing too. Regardless, I also toss out aoe heals, various buffs, etc.
I've had it a few times where the instance ends, then immediately restarts and it was always in a Borg DSE. If you have numerous players in there, it is dread! Lol.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I've recently gotten into the Deepspace Encounters, and I've been seeing some disappointing behaviour with those with high(er) tier ships. Namely, map cleaning.
This hierarchy/pay your dues attitude of 'I got shat on as a low-ranking player, so now I'm levelled up I'll **** on low-ranking players...' IMO needs addressing and improving from to keep things fun for everyone. Encounters are open to all players at all levels, and thus, everyone deserves the opportunity to participate and actually do something.
So I'd like to propose a series of conventions to ensure that these Encounters are fun for all participants:
-Evaluate the situation and act accordingly.
-Check the level of players with low-tier/levelling ships: They may be an experienced player using a low-tier ship, they may, be a new player to the game, and this might be their first foray into group activity: Don't discourage them.
-Remember that you are not the only player in the instance, and just because you have the ability to clear the map, that doesn't give you the right to do so. The others are also there to participate: Afford them the opportunity to do so. These are, albeit temporarily, your fleetmates: Treat them as such, with the respect they're due.
-Leave something for others to tackle.
-Don't poach another player's kill (unless they are clearly struggling/incapable of dealing with their target)
-Look out for lower-ranking players if you aren't actively engaged. If they aren't having an effect on their target, despite clearly making the effort, then help them out. That doesn't, however, then mean 'relieving them of duty', and going after anything which goes near them... Be their big brother/sister: Help them out, but don't strip them of the opportunity to learn how to do it themself.
-Use your discretion and be considerate. If you're in an Encounter with several lower-ranking players, and your boff abilities melt the targets, then just stick to regular firing cycles. If you take out your target so fast that you then have to actively seek out targets, you're going to wind up poaching on other people's action; Fine if they need help, not fine if you simply can't exercise self-restraint and play well with others.
-If you need/want to unleash your abilities, do it when you are truly soloing an Encounter by yourself, or in a private queue. You're only going to be in the Encounter instance for a few minutes; it's not as if this is a permanent impingement on your game-playing experience. Your next Encounter, you may have the map to yourself, and you can cut loose then
Nice as this might sound, it's wishful in the extreme, lacks any kind of enforcement, and if it did have one, people would complain. As I remember, it scales you down to ~lvl 30 when you enter an instance, but scaling performs pretty poorly for a maxed-out build.
A simpler option, since these encounters are really only meant for leveling players, would be a blanket ban on anyone above a certain level joining. There's no real fun in going in a wiping a map, it tells me nothing about my build performance, and I know what it's like to have all the air sucked out of the room.
A ban/level hard cap would solve pretty much all of what you're talking about...it wouldn't prevent somebody from twinking out a leveling toon, but it would vastly limit the power that could be brought in and seems simple to implement.
Apologies for not catching your post earlier, and thanks for your thoughts, I wasn't intentionally ignoring you
Of course it's unenforceable, but if it maybe makes people think, that's all I would hope for
Rather than restricting them to leveling players (as that's the only space content one of my leveled characters can access) perhaps a better idea would be to lock an instance's level after the first ship enters, meaning that no players higher than them could enter. But I'm really not interested in discussing hypotheticals which will never be implemented, and hoped to simply raise the topic in the aim that folks may see it, and might consider their behaviour in such Encounters
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @leemwatson said:
> Normally I'm all for etiquette and manners, but OP, seriously, this is pushing it.
>
> DSE's adapt to the number of players on the map, and believe me, if a high level player sat there and didn't help (and yes some just sit and AFK for the reward) you'd be screaming blue murder. You want to see a truly terrifying Borg experience, get 5 players in a Borg DSE, it becomes insane, but great fun.
>
> In Beta Quad, the set level of the instance is 28, Alpha is lvl 50 and I think Delta is 60. So players 'could' use their discretion here, but you're making a statement in the Forums, which is only seen by a small number of players. The ONLY thing that can be done to change this is to level limit Beta DSE's......but then, who'll be there to cover people's collective asses!?
I have heard from a friend DSEs are even better on console, apparently sometimes after defeating all waves in the DSE they spawn a dread wave, I watched it happen once and I've never seen it happen on PC and I play a lot of DSEs.
As far as the "etiquette" thing goes, if I'm in a dse with 1 other player I'll split off to the oposite side spawns, but if I wipe my group and he has more than one left I'll take them. If I have have more than 1 other player I just smash anything red, thats what they are all doing too. Regardless, I also toss out aoe heals, various buffs, etc.
I've had it a few times where the instance ends, then immediately restarts and it was always in a Borg DSE. If you have numerous players in there, it is dread! Lol.
That can happen on PC too. But only if there's a LOT of people. It may also have to do with how fast you wipe the enemies.
I always look around to see whats going on in every map, regardless of it being a dse or stf.
-Check the level of players with low-tier/levelling ships:
Takes up too much time to click on everybody then check there level, etc. by the time you do that for everybody the instance could ne over and you got an afk penalty for yourself.
-Leave something for others to tackle.
See next response.
-Don't poach another player's kill (unless they are clearly struggling/incapable of dealing with their target)
When I go in if I see people targeting a ship I find one thats not engaged and go to town on it. If I see them having trouble on a target I fly over open fire and fly out of range before the target goes boom so that I dont steal the kill.
-Look out for lower-ranking players if you aren't actively engaged. If they aren't having an effect on their target, despite clearly making the effort, then help them out. That doesn't, however, then mean 'relieving them of duty', and going after anything which goes near them... Be their big brother/sister: Help them out, but don't strip them of the opportunity to learn how to do it themselves.
I tend to go after the bigger targets first, clearing them will help out everyone. Low levels dont have to worry about a Borg Cube showing up and smashing them to pieces before they now what happened.
-Use your discretion and be considerate. If you're in an Encounter with several lower-ranking players, and your boff abilities melt the targets, then just stick to regular firing cycles. If you take out your target so fast that you then have to actively seek out targets, you're going to wind up poaching on other people's action; Fine if they need help, not fine if you simply can't exercise self-restraint and play well with others.
When I go into these, as a low level player, I actually LIKE it when higher players come in and smash everything. It helps it end quicker. I get more XP from completing the mission than I do if I blow up every ship myself. Granted, if I solo'd one I'd get all the XP, but at some lower levels/ships, that would take a while.
And if I did feel like I wanted to "participate" in one of these, when the encounter ends and I can just go to the next closest one. Not like they are rare or anything.
good attitude and sensible one if I do say so
smash em quick, do another, if the lower level players want to join in then ill help them through these and any other missions / encounters so they can get exp and rewards under their belts asap so they level up and get the decent gear
I always look around to see whats going on in every map, regardless of it being a dse or stf.
-Check the level of players with low-tier/levelling ships:
Takes up too much time to click on everybody then check there level, etc. by the time you do that for everybody the instance could ne over and you got an afk penalty for yourself.
-Leave something for others to tackle.
See next response.
-Don't poach another player's kill (unless they are clearly struggling/incapable of dealing with their target)
When I go in if I see people targeting a ship I find one thats not engaged and go to town on it. If I see them having trouble on a target I fly over open fire and fly out of range before the target goes boom so that I dont steal the kill.
-Look out for lower-ranking players if you aren't actively engaged. If they aren't having an effect on their target, despite clearly making the effort, then help them out. That doesn't, however, then mean 'relieving them of duty', and going after anything which goes near them... Be their big brother/sister: Help them out, but don't strip them of the opportunity to learn how to do it themselves.
I tend to go after the bigger targets first, clearing them will help out everyone. Low levels dont have to worry about a Borg Cube showing up and smashing them to pieces before they now what happened.
-Use your discretion and be considerate. If you're in an Encounter with several lower-ranking players, and your boff abilities melt the targets, then just stick to regular firing cycles. If you take out your target so fast that you then have to actively seek out targets, you're going to wind up poaching on other people's action; Fine if they need help, not fine if you simply can't exercise self-restraint and play well with others.
I do this regularly anyway,
I wasn't suggesting checking every ship in the instance, just ones which are obviously Tier 2/3 (and I often do this while beams are in a BFAW firing cycle, so I'm still moving around and participating ) I didn't realize there was an AFK penalty in the Encounters, so thanks for that information
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I've recently gotten into the Deepspace Encounters, and I've been seeing some disappointing behaviour with those with high(er) tier ships. Namely, map cleaning.
This hierarchy/pay your dues attitude of 'I got shat on as a low-ranking player, so now I'm levelled up I'll **** on low-ranking players...' IMO needs addressing and improving from to keep things fun for everyone. Encounters are open to all players at all levels, and thus, everyone deserves the opportunity to participate and actually do something.
So I'd like to propose a series of conventions to ensure that these Encounters are fun for all participants:
-Evaluate the situation and act accordingly.
-Check the level of players with low-tier/levelling ships: They may be an experienced player using a low-tier ship, they may, be a new player to the game, and this might be their first foray into group activity: Don't discourage them.
-Remember that you are not the only player in the instance, and just because you have the ability to clear the map, that doesn't give you the right to do so. The others are also there to participate: Afford them the opportunity to do so. These are, albeit temporarily, your fleetmates: Treat them as such, with the respect they're due.
-Leave something for others to tackle.
-Don't poach another player's kill (unless they are clearly struggling/incapable of dealing with their target)
-Look out for lower-ranking players if you aren't actively engaged. If they aren't having an effect on their target, despite clearly making the effort, then help them out. That doesn't, however, then mean 'relieving them of duty', and going after anything which goes near them... Be their big brother/sister: Help them out, but don't strip them of the opportunity to learn how to do it themself.
-Use your discretion and be considerate. If you're in an Encounter with several lower-ranking players, and your boff abilities melt the targets, then just stick to regular firing cycles. If you take out your target so fast that you then have to actively seek out targets, you're going to wind up poaching on other people's action; Fine if they need help, not fine if you simply can't exercise self-restraint and play well with others.
-If you need/want to unleash your abilities, do it when you are truly soloing an Encounter by yourself, or in a private queue. You're only going to be in the Encounter instance for a few minutes; it's not as if this is a permanent impingement on your game-playing experience. Your next Encounter, you may have the map to yourself, and you can cut loose then
Nonsense. It's cute to think that everyone would adopt a communal 'make everyone feel special' mentality but I mean geez... this is not kindergarten. C'mon, there's bigger fish to fry than assuring everyone feels special.
I just blow the heck out of anything I get a lock on, and sometimes I get lower tier players stop attacking their targets and race over to shoot at mine.
They never get there in time of course. Unless of course they are just after the scrap metal. =3
( I do leave if one just sits there leaching off me. )
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
If player A's participation does not contribute to player B's winning, why should A's preferences take precedence over B's?
(...)
Letting someone more capable get the job done faster is the opposite of stupid and means less waiting for everyone. I wouldn't want a better player to slow down a mission on my account, either.
The thing addressed here is: not everybody in the game is in it just for the quick rewards or the winning, but to actually play the game.
Again, I am not certain whether this is a good idea by silverlobes, but you seem to be missing what others are talking about when they have different priorities and/or abilities to reach them.
No, you seem to be ignoring what I clearly said in the very post you quoted.
When players have mutually-exclusive priorities, why should some players' priorities take precedence over others? For example, if in the same mission there is a player who wants a quick reward and a player who wants to plink at things at <1k DPS, why should the fast player have to give up his goal?
And for that matter, why should good players assume the not-so-good players are wanting to "actually play the game" ineffectively, rather than trying their best to get a quick reward and simply being less successful at it?
Honestly I can see both sides on this, as in both sides of the issue have a equal right to enjoy the content. Though i would not mind if we had a toggle option that we could activate locking deep space encounters to either solo affairs, or specific level brackets.
If I push myself a little, I can blow through one of these fast enough to trigger the follow on NPC waves. Now that is a target rich environment, lol. I generally try to pick a sector and keep it clear while trying not to crowd someone else or take kills. I also leave the loot for others. I've little need for Mk VII Blue gear drops after five years of playing this game.
But what do I do when that lvl 15 or 16 player decides to wander over and "help out"? Do I chastise them in Chat? Do I point them at this thread and gently explain why them popping my target for that last 15 or 20 Hull Points is bad form? Or, as I usually do, do I simply not worry about the kiddies swarming things I've reduced to helpless cripples to the point where the USS Pointy Stick can shoot one TOS Phaser and kill something?
It is a neat idea, OP. Bravo for trying to make it fly. I, too, have a code I follow in RSE's. Which I've already outlined above. At this point, I usually enter any RSE to try out something which I've not used before. Or to tune a build a bit. But for there to be a proper way of doing things in RSE's would require everyone who plays STO to read this thread and then enter a gentleman's agreement. I strongly suspect this proposed method of playing RSE's would honored more in the breach than the observance.
Still, if part of your intent was for my lvl 60 chars to stop playing RSE's altogether, then I will certainly give doing so some thought. Wouldn't want to roflstomp someone's idea of a good time. Or be accused of being some sort of elitist snob.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I do my best to be courteous to other players whenever I can, but at the same time.. I’m not going to sit in a DSE for 10 min waiting for someone to finish their target. I know my DPS is high enough to make newer or undergeared players feel unneeded, so I try and let them contribute. My patience however, only lasts so long and eventually.. I’m going to swoop in and put an end to it.
Usually though, if a player is having that much trouble they generally seem to appreciate the help.
I've recently gotten into the Deepspace Encounters, and I've been seeing some disappointing behaviour with those with high(er) tier ships. Namely, map cleaning.
This hierarchy/pay your dues attitude of 'I got shat on as a low-ranking player, so now I'm levelled up I'll **** on low-ranking players...' IMO needs addressing and improving from to keep things fun for everyone. Encounters are open to all players at all levels, and thus, everyone deserves the opportunity to participate and actually do something.
So I'd like to propose a series of conventions to ensure that these Encounters are fun for all participants:
-Evaluate the situation and act accordingly.
-Check the level of players with low-tier/levelling ships: They may be an experienced player using a low-tier ship, they may, be a new player to the game, and this might be their first foray into group activity: Don't discourage them.
-Remember that you are not the only player in the instance, and just because you have the ability to clear the map, that doesn't give you the right to do so. The others are also there to participate: Afford them the opportunity to do so. These are, albeit temporarily, your fleetmates: Treat them as such, with the respect they're due.
-Leave something for others to tackle.
-Don't poach another player's kill (unless they are clearly struggling/incapable of dealing with their target)
-Look out for lower-ranking players if you aren't actively engaged. If they aren't having an effect on their target, despite clearly making the effort, then help them out. That doesn't, however, then mean 'relieving them of duty', and going after anything which goes near them... Be their big brother/sister: Help them out, but don't strip them of the opportunity to learn how to do it themself.
-Use your discretion and be considerate. If you're in an Encounter with several lower-ranking players, and your boff abilities melt the targets, then just stick to regular firing cycles. If you take out your target so fast that you then have to actively seek out targets, you're going to wind up poaching on other people's action; Fine if they need help, not fine if you simply can't exercise self-restraint and play well with others.
-If you need/want to unleash your abilities, do it when you are truly soloing an Encounter by yourself, or in a private queue. You're only going to be in the Encounter instance for a few minutes; it's not as if this is a permanent impingement on your game-playing experience. Your next Encounter, you may have the map to yourself, and you can cut loose then
Nonsense. It's cute to think that everyone would adopt a communal 'make everyone feel special' mentality but I mean geez... this is not kindergarten. C'mon, there's bigger fish to fry than assuring everyone feels special.
Thanks for your thoughts, but that's not actually what I said
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
If player A's participation does not contribute to player B's winning, why should A's preferences take precedence over B's?
(...)
Letting someone more capable get the job done faster is the opposite of stupid and means less waiting for everyone. I wouldn't want a better player to slow down a mission on my account, either.
The thing addressed here is: not everybody in the game is in it just for the quick rewards or the winning, but to actually play the game.
Again, I am not certain whether this is a good idea by silverlobes, but you seem to be missing what others are talking about when they have different priorities and/or abilities to reach them.
No, you seem to be ignoring what I clearly said in the very post you quoted.
When players have mutually-exclusive priorities, why should some players' priorities take precedence over others? For example, if in the same mission there is a player who wants a quick reward and a player who wants to plink at things at <1k DPS, why should the fast player have to give up his goal?
And for that matter, why should good players assume the not-so-good players are wanting to "actually play the game" ineffectively, rather than trying their best to get a quick reward and simply being less successful at it?
You're using sophism in an attempt to justify your stance.
Is the fast player so insecure and afraid of challenge, that he has to vape a map to massage his ego?
Is that fragile ego worth defending or justifying?
As I said in my OP: This attitude of levelled players **** on lower players, because someone did the same thing to them, is a vicious cycle which needs breaking.
There are rewards a-plenty in higher tier instances and queues, where the player will be playing amongst people of the same level as them wait, that's what they don't like doing... Sorry, sorry, dude, I forgot... Big Fish in Little Pond syndrome...
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
If I push myself a little, I can blow through one of these fast enough to trigger the follow on NPC waves. Now that is a target rich environment, lol. I generally try to pick a sector and keep it clear while trying not to crowd someone else or take kills. I also leave the loot for others. I've little need for Mk VII Blue gear drops after five years of playing this game.
But what do I do when that lvl 15 or 16 player decides to wander over and "help out"? Do I chastise them in Chat? Do I point them at this thread and gently explain why them popping my target for that last 15 or 20 Hull Points is bad form? Or, as I usually do, do I simply not worry about the kiddies swarming things I've reduced to helpless cripples to the point where the USS Pointy Stick can shoot one TOS Phaser and kill something?
It is a neat idea, OP. Bravo for trying to make it fly. I, too, have a code I follow in RSE's. Which I've already outlined above. At this point, I usually enter any RSE to try out something which I've not used before. Or to tune a build a bit. But for there to be a proper way of doing things in RSE's would require everyone who plays STO to read this thread and then enter a gentleman's agreement. I strongly suspect this proposed method of playing RSE's would honored more in the breach than the observance.
Still, if part of your intent was for my lvl 60 chars to stop playing RSE's altogether, then I will certainly give doing so some thought. Wouldn't want to roflstomp someone's idea of a good time. Or be accused of being some sort of elitist snob.
I think you're getting the thought that I was hoping to provoke in others, and no, it's absolutely not about getting people to stop playing them when they hit a certain level. I think it should be for the more experienced players to shepherd the newer players and show them the ropes, rather than **** on their parade... Sadly, I think the kind of people who would follow the suggested conventions, already do so, and the kind of people who wouldn't, simply won't...
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I do my best to be courteous to other players whenever I can, but at the same time.. I’m not going to sit in a DSE for 10 min waiting for someone to finish their target. I know my DPS is high enough to make newer or undergeared players feel unneeded, so I try and let them contribute. My patience however, only lasts so long and eventually.. I’m going to swoop in and put an end to it.
Usually though, if a player is having that much trouble they generally seem to appreciate the help.
For sure, and this is exactly what I mean: If they seriously can't do it, then yes, it's good to help out. That's not the same as ignoring everyone else in the Encounter, vaping the map, and leaving everyone else wondering why they bothered
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
How about, since this is an open map that anyone can enter, you kill things at your pace, I will do it at my pace and there is no issues. If you feel inadequate about yourself because of me, it is not an issue to do with me and all to do you with and you can deal with it. If you want advice on how to do better, feel free to ask me. I will gladly help you out.
It's not about someone feeling inadequate (because as you say, that's for them to deal with) but about people literally being made redundant within an Encounter which is open to all. As I said, if people need that high DPS vape-play, plenty of high-tier challenges or private queues, or, just in an Encounter where they're the only person (because it's not as if these are actually long, and the sole sum of a person's daily gaming experience) I understand the psychologies involved, it's just a tad disappointing to see. I guess my expectations with this thread were unrealistic, but thank you for your offer of assistance, that's something I wish I saw more often in-game
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I always keep an eye out for the newbies. I've run afoul of the inconsiderate sorts more times than I'd care to admit in this game and understand full-well the frustrations. Thankfully, there are some good souls out there who are kind and considerate in the way that they play...and I endeavor to be one of them too.
I always keep an eye out for the newbies. I've run afoul of the inconsiderate sorts more times than I'd care to admit in this game and understand full-well the frustrations. Thankfully, there are some good souls out there who are kind and considerate in the way that they play...and I endeavor to be one of them too.
That's what I'm talking about
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I'm being exceptionally helpful and courteous by getting the DSE over and done with and making sure everyone gets their exp and rewards as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Just went back and re read your OP, OP. I absolutely DO NOT appreciate you generalizing my behavior. You do not know anything at all about me or how I play this game except for things I've posted here. I'm really sorry you experienced a bunch of a-holes for fellow players when first learning how to play and enjoy this game.
But I ain't one of them. Never have been. Never will be.
I disagree with your broad stroke of categorizing those of us who've played this game a long time. I find it to be unfair, insulting, and in my case a damnable lie. I cannot speak for others but I can and certainly will speak up for myself. Perhaps if you could avoid listening to the overly sanctimonious sound of your own dulcet tones long enough, you might hear what others are saying.
You only listen to others so you can reply.
Because in the end this is all about you and how you feel and how you look to others who may be watching.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I reread that OP and maybe I'm getting old and missed it pointing out people directly. I absolutely DID NOT see it to where people can take umbrage about the comments. Stop trying to take things personally from Posts.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
How about, since this is an open map that anyone can enter, you kill things at your pace, I will do it at my pace and there is no issues. If you feel inadequate about yourself because of me, it is not an issue to do with me and all to do you with and you can deal with it. If you want advice on how to do better, feel free to ask me. I will gladly help you out.
It's not about someone feeling inadequate (because as you say, that's for them to deal with) but about people literally being made redundant within an Encounter which is open to all. As I said, if people need that high DPS vape-play, plenty of high-tier challenges or private queues, or, just in an Encounter where they're the only person (because it's not as if these are actually long, and the sole sum of a person's daily gaming experience) I understand the psychologies involved, it's just a tad disappointing to see. I guess my expectations with this thread were unrealistic, but thank you for your offer of assistance, that's something I wish I saw more often in-game
I'm sorry...but other people in ISA (the highest difficulty for this map) is redundant for me if I grab my real DPS ships and builds. They are mostly so in my for fun ship. In normal queue map...yeah even my for fun ship makes anyone else there redundant. This game is so easy, you can do group content easily alone. So the issue isn't are you need there...the issue is how much faster are you winning this map...because that is literally all extra people do in these maps. They just makes things go faster. And you want redundant? Try running maps with the like of Aeley or ShaunmanX (although he doesn't play much anymore). Or entire groups of people like them. My for fun ships that runs like 40-70k DPS always comes in last in some circles I play with. And not by small amounts. In fact, me being there and eating up some of their damage while not speeding the run up enough probably even HURTS their DPS numbers because I do enough damage for that to matter. So never mind not even being needed...I am actually HURTING those run groups with that ship for what they are chasing after. But the key thing? We have fun. We talk about how to tweak things. And we do it again. And me...even coming in last all the time have no hard feeling because somebody did better than me. That is a terrible way to live a life. To be mad because somebody does better than you. I'd rather talk with them and see how they did better than me and get better myself.
I completely agree, the game is that easy (especially for seasoned players) But that isn't the conversation being had here
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Just went back and re read your OP, OP. I absolutely DO NOT appreciate you generalizing my behavior. You do not know anything at all about me or how I play this game except for things I've posted here. I'm really sorry you experienced a bunch of a-holes for fellow players when first learning how to play and enjoy this game.
But I ain't one of them. Never have been. Never will be.
I disagree with your broad stroke of categorizing those of us who've played this game a long time. I find it to be unfair, insulting, and in my case a damnable lie. I cannot speak for others but I can and certainly will speak up for myself. Perhaps if you could avoid listening to the overly sanctimonious sound of your own dulcet tones long enough, you might hear what others are saying.
You only listen to others so you can reply.
Because in the end this is all about you and how you feel and how you look to others who may be watching.
Generalizing your behaviour??
That's some weapons-grade butthurt and projection you're spewing. How you can twist 'trying to encourage a more sportsman-like mindset in players who are clearly lacking it' into 'how it makes me look to others', I do not know. My OP clearly touched a nerve, so I'll just say; if the shoe fits, wear it... And if my 'tone' offends you, feel free to ignore it from now on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Comments
I've had it a few times where the instance ends, then immediately restarts and it was always in a Borg DSE. If you have numerous players in there, it is dread! Lol.
Of course it's unenforceable, but if it maybe makes people think, that's all I would hope for
Rather than restricting them to leveling players (as that's the only space content one of my leveled characters can access) perhaps a better idea would be to lock an instance's level after the first ship enters, meaning that no players higher than them could enter. But I'm really not interested in discussing hypotheticals which will never be implemented, and hoped to simply raise the topic in the aim that folks may see it, and might consider their behaviour in such Encounters
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My character Tsin'xing
-Evaluate the situation and act accordingly.
I always look around to see whats going on in every map, regardless of it being a dse or stf.
-Check the level of players with low-tier/levelling ships:
Takes up too much time to click on everybody then check there level, etc. by the time you do that for everybody the instance could ne over and you got an afk penalty for yourself.
-Leave something for others to tackle.
See next response.
-Don't poach another player's kill (unless they are clearly struggling/incapable of dealing with their target)
When I go in if I see people targeting a ship I find one thats not engaged and go to town on it. If I see them having trouble on a target I fly over open fire and fly out of range before the target goes boom so that I dont steal the kill.
-Look out for lower-ranking players if you aren't actively engaged. If they aren't having an effect on their target, despite clearly making the effort, then help them out. That doesn't, however, then mean 'relieving them of duty', and going after anything which goes near them... Be their big brother/sister: Help them out, but don't strip them of the opportunity to learn how to do it themselves.
I tend to go after the bigger targets first, clearing them will help out everyone. Low levels dont have to worry about a Borg Cube showing up and smashing them to pieces before they now what happened.
-Use your discretion and be considerate. If you're in an Encounter with several lower-ranking players, and your boff abilities melt the targets, then just stick to regular firing cycles. If you take out your target so fast that you then have to actively seek out targets, you're going to wind up poaching on other people's action; Fine if they need help, not fine if you simply can't exercise self-restraint and play well with others.
I do this regularly anyway,
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
good attitude and sensible one if I do say so
smash em quick, do another, if the lower level players want to join in then ill help them through these and any other missions / encounters so they can get exp and rewards under their belts asap so they level up and get the decent gear
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Nonsense. It's cute to think that everyone would adopt a communal 'make everyone feel special' mentality but I mean geez... this is not kindergarten. C'mon, there's bigger fish to fry than assuring everyone feels special.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
When players have mutually-exclusive priorities, why should some players' priorities take precedence over others? For example, if in the same mission there is a player who wants a quick reward and a player who wants to plink at things at <1k DPS, why should the fast player have to give up his goal?
And for that matter, why should good players assume the not-so-good players are wanting to "actually play the game" ineffectively, rather than trying their best to get a quick reward and simply being less successful at it?
But what do I do when that lvl 15 or 16 player decides to wander over and "help out"? Do I chastise them in Chat? Do I point them at this thread and gently explain why them popping my target for that last 15 or 20 Hull Points is bad form? Or, as I usually do, do I simply not worry about the kiddies swarming things I've reduced to helpless cripples to the point where the USS Pointy Stick can shoot one TOS Phaser and kill something?
It is a neat idea, OP. Bravo for trying to make it fly. I, too, have a code I follow in RSE's. Which I've already outlined above. At this point, I usually enter any RSE to try out something which I've not used before. Or to tune a build a bit. But for there to be a proper way of doing things in RSE's would require everyone who plays STO to read this thread and then enter a gentleman's agreement. I strongly suspect this proposed method of playing RSE's would honored more in the breach than the observance.
Still, if part of your intent was for my lvl 60 chars to stop playing RSE's altogether, then I will certainly give doing so some thought. Wouldn't want to roflstomp someone's idea of a good time. Or be accused of being some sort of elitist snob.
Usually though, if a player is having that much trouble they generally seem to appreciate the help.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Is the fast player so insecure and afraid of challenge, that he has to vape a map to massage his ego?
Is that fragile ego worth defending or justifying?
As I said in my OP: This attitude of levelled players **** on lower players, because someone did the same thing to them, is a vicious cycle which needs breaking.
There are rewards a-plenty in higher tier instances and queues, where the player will be playing amongst people of the same level as them wait, that's what they don't like doing... Sorry, sorry, dude, I forgot... Big Fish in Little Pond syndrome...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
These are the voyages of the U.S.S. Pioneer...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My character Tsin'xing
But I ain't one of them. Never have been. Never will be.
I disagree with your broad stroke of categorizing those of us who've played this game a long time. I find it to be unfair, insulting, and in my case a damnable lie. I cannot speak for others but I can and certainly will speak up for myself. Perhaps if you could avoid listening to the overly sanctimonious sound of your own dulcet tones long enough, you might hear what others are saying.
You only listen to others so you can reply.
Because in the end this is all about you and how you feel and how you look to others who may be watching.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Generalizing your behaviour??
That's some weapons-grade butthurt and projection you're spewing. How you can twist 'trying to encourage a more sportsman-like mindset in players who are clearly lacking it' into 'how it makes me look to others', I do not know. My OP clearly touched a nerve, so I'll just say; if the shoe fits, wear it... And if my 'tone' offends you, feel free to ignore it from now on
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth