Some devs said it was to alter code in Foundry to make it load missions faster, but it wouldn't hurt to give the many dedicated fans a time frame to reduce the pain.
if it was for just us it wouldn't hurt but there's also the people (calling them fans doesn't seem right) who take what ever reason to insult and belittle the Cryptic devs, so any timeframes the devs aren't more or less certain they'll meet has become "why can't we get nice things" situation. Also providing those things just for the Foundry could be seen as favortism and well see above.
That's why me and Duncan have been calling for patience in this matter pretty from the start of the downtime, it's well known that devs are very unwilling to give dates unless they're ironclad. As Duncan said above having a lack of patience about this matter will not bring the foundry back any faster.
it wouldn't hurt to give the many dedicated fans a time frame to reduce the pain.
Actually, it would. See. Kael's lecture just about every hour of Ten Forward Weekly.
The reasons why devs don't give specific timetables on bug fixes (unless it's locked in for the next patch) is the same as why they don't give specific timetables or outlines of upcoming content prior to an official announcement. Missing those original estimates (which happens in development, things happen) can upset people. They don't want to invite that unnecessary gut punch (even it only provokes simple disappointment), so Cryptic's told us that the Foundry will be back soon.
if it was for just us it wouldn't hurt but there's also the people (calling them fans doesn't seem right) who take what ever reason to insult and belittle the Cryptic devs.
If it was just us, Cryptic probably still wouldn't set firm dates when they weren't sure of the results. However understanding we might be, they don't want to let us down.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
In my opinion, I would rather have a flexible date than a vague word like soon. Soon seems to mean "We'll get it done sometime... within a year...". It can be an excuse. However, I can assume they are working to solve the issue. I am exceedingly impressed with the community presence in the game. The game's been around for a while, guys... if it takes time to fix older things it takes time. Let's admit, this is the best online Star Trek game out there. Let's not hate on it.
I my opinion, I would rather have a flexible date than a vague word like soon. Soon seems to mean "We'll get it done sometime... within a year...". It can be an excuse.
That is absolutely not what it means in this case. Paraphrased from Ten Forward Weekly: "not this week, but soon." The probability of that leading well into 2018 seems remote.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
if it was for just us it wouldn't hurt but there's also the people (calling them fans doesn't seem right) who take what ever reason to insult and belittle the Cryptic devs.
If it was just us, Cryptic probably still wouldn't set firm dates when they weren't sure of the results. However understanding we might be, they don't want to let us down.
set dates probably not but if they could give us a vague timeframe or ETA they'd probably due as they can trust us to understand that "at the earliest" date means that the fix or what ever happens at earliest on that date but it's also likely that it might be delayed. After all foundry projects can end up delayed too even if there's no downtime.
But as I mentioned informing Foundry with estimates of fixes or downtime but not informing about upcoming content could be seen as favortism (hell I know players who think Foundry existing outside of accolade/loot/endeavor cheat device for them is favortism) and the devs don't want to be seen playing favorites so no-one gets even estimates.
And it's not like Cryptic is unique in this matter Blizzard Entertainment is infamous for not giving anything timeframe except "when it's ready" until they've locked down the release date and they're not only ones doing it either, there's at least CDproject Red and possibly as well Rockstar who do that exact same thing.
I agree with everyones points, I just wish they'd tell me if it is going to be a 'DAYS,WEEKS,MONTHS' situation so I know what to expect.
In the meantime, level up my ToS character to Admiral.
STAR TREK CONTINUES
Episode One - A Single MomentEpisode Two - InfancyEpisode Three - Unto the Breach Episode Four - Head Of A NeedleEpisode Five: The Duality of MenEpisode Six - Redemption Earned Episode Seven - Shattered UniverseEpisode Eight - The Gepetto ConditionEpisode Nine - One Room, Two Officers Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest StarEpisode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't HurtEpisode Twelve - A Protracted Officer Episode Thirteen - SomewhenEpisode Fourteen - The Boy Who LivedEpisode Fifthteen - Empathy
I agree with everyones points, I just wish they'd tell me if it is going to be a 'DAYS,WEEKS,MONTHS' situation so I know what to expect.
In the meantime, level up my ToS character to Admiral.
as I said before there's those people who would take any given date as a "must absolutely happen at this date" kind of thing, not so much on the foundry community but the devs can't play favorites either. That's why they don't give dates for anything what so ever they don't want to disapoint and anger people when vague initial timetables weren't met. Also as I said it's in no ways unique to Cryptic.
Sure I'd wish we could have more info, but then I also wish I could get 1 000 000 000 € per day (legally) by doing nothing but that's not gonna happen so I've accepted that it won't happen.
Also this was clearly a bigger issue then orginally thought of (seeing as it affected Neverwinter Foundry as well) so there's no reason to panic or rage just yet. It seems we might be getting fixes to some long standing bugs too like the transition bug as "Resolved an issue with the Foundry where players could only preview the first map" seems a lot like fixing a transition bug.
Patience is a virtue that's very useful here, there's enough stressful things in the world to not make mountains out of mole hills.
Just to dispell the doomsayers it would seem Foundry is at least partially up after the patch though the notes implied the Editor would still be off-line
Just to dispell the doomsayers it would seem Foundry is at least partially up after the patch though the notes implied the Editor would still be off-line
Kael confirmed in the patch nodes forum thread that the Foundry (ie. missions) was coming back today (editor later, as usual.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Just to dispell the doomsayers it would seem Foundry is at least partially up after the patch though the notes implied the Editor would still be off-line
Kael confirmed in the patch nodes forum thread that the Foundry (ie. missions) was coming back today (editor later, as usual.)
yeah I've seen the thread, I just worded my post conservatively (in a non-political way) to not get anyones hopes up for nothing, you're biologist Duncan you should recognize scientific language when you see it
Never say that "something is" that implies absolute truth, but rather say that "something seems to be" accepting that you and others are flawble and thus can be wrong or simply inaccurate..
yeah I've seen the thread, I just worded my post conservatively (in a non-political way) to not get anyones hopes up for nothing, you're biologist Duncan you should recognize scientific language when you see it .
"The Foundry is back" was the wording Kael used in the thread (second post down).
Never say that "something is" that implies absolute truth, but rather say that "something seems to be" accepting that you and others are flawble and thus can be wrong or simply inaccurate..
I'm going to have a little fun with this one, so bear with me.
Absolute truth is a philosophical concept, not a scientific one. One asserts truth through the strength of a rhetorical argument. The audience can then choose to believe this or not based on the speaker's powers of persuasion. Under no circumstances though is truth actually obtained. What's established and potentially re-aligned (in a non-scientific discussion) are the social attitudes of the people involved (ie. how does one feel towards something.)
Science largely dispenses with the ad hoc nature of human discourse and approaches problems statistically. This allows us to gauge the weight of evidence for an assertion quantitatively, so it can be more objectively compared to other ideas. While in a casual conversation it's not always possible to perform statistical testing on the subjects under discussion, one can still consider problems in terms of a balance of probability as opposed to absolute truth (which is just rhetoric.)
So take Kael saying "the Foundry is back." While there was no absolute proof that the Foundry was coming back, the balance of probability was strongly in favor of it. That probability wasn't exactly equal to 1.00 (nothing is, thanks to quantum mechanics) but that fact doesn't necessarily weight the alternate hypothesis (foundry =/= returning) high enough to reference in discussion at that point. These are for example: Kael jumping the gun, the fix not being fully tested, or a catastrophic bug arising with some other aspect of the Foundry. Each would have been uncharacteristic (ie. at an intuited probability some factor less than 0.05) to have happened this morning. So, comparing the null (Foundry = back) to the alternate (Foundry =/= back) hypothesis and the evidence of the patch notes and Kael's assurance (strictly forcing unusual scenarios to support the alternate), this morning one could probably say "It's coming back!" and get away with it.
Earlier, that wasn't possible because "the devs need more time to fix the problem" couldn't be rejected from our intuitive analysis (without further developments). The balance of probability was at a different point which favored multiple possibilities (ex. it'll be back next week).
So, we could say "the Foundry is back" on the basis of a balance of intuitive probability without final confirmation. While we lack absolute truth (and stuff could always come up), context provided probabilistic surety to say something about what's going on with the universe (in this case: the STO Foundry.) We might be wrong, but that's simply a restatement of the original point that a scientific outlook does not consider absolute fact but statistical likelihood. It goes without saying. Thus, the important point isn't to avoid absolute phrasing (which a scientific outlook will always consider probabilistically), it's to avoid absolute thinking.
That is all.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
yeah I've seen the thread, I just worded my post conservatively (in a non-political way) to not get anyones hopes up for nothing, you're biologist Duncan you should recognize scientific language when you see it .
"The Foundry is back" was the wording Kael used in the thread (second post down).
as I said I've read the thread but things could have happened between the start of the maintenance and when Kael posted that that would have made his statement inaccurate.
that said even though it seems so the editor is not up, I repeat the EDITOR IS NOT UP trying to Access it will make get stuck in a loading screen.
EDIT:I had to kill the process to get out said loading screen.
yeah I've seen the thread, I just worded my post conservatively (in a non-political way) to not get anyones hopes up for nothing, you're biologist Duncan you should recognize scientific language when you see it .
"The Foundry is back" was the wording Kael used in the thread (second post down).
as I said I've read the thread but things could have happened between the start of the maintenance and when Kael posted that that would have made his statement inaccurate.
that said even though it seems so the editor is not up, I repeat the EDITOR IS NOT UP trying to Access it will make get stuck in a loading screen.
EDIT:I had to kill the process to get out said loading screen.
and someone should inform Kael to disable the access to the editor until it's fully back online so that others won't end in the loading screen trap I ended up.
and someone should inform Kael to disable the access to the editor until it's fully back online so that others won't end in the loading screen trap I ended up.
We mentioned and retweeted it on twitter. The right people are likely to have seen it but the issue isn't all that severe (it can trap people but the worst there is a game restarted and a lesson learned) so I think we can get away with it.
What we want to focus on now is testing missions so we can give Cryptic the collective okay to proceed with the Foundry's reactivation ASAP (ie. simply turn the editor on.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
and someone should inform Kael to disable the access to the editor until it's fully back online so that others won't end in the loading screen trap I ended up.
We mentioned and retweeted it on twitter. The right people are likely to have seen it but the issue isn't all that severe (it can trap people but the worst there is a game restarted and a lesson learned) so I think we can get away with it.
What we want to focus on now is testing missions so we can give Cryptic the collective okay to proceed with the Foundry's reactivation ASAP (ie. simply turn the editor on.)
My problem atm is that my completed mission didn't get auto-republished and obviously I can't manually republish it without the editor. Though ironically the "testing" mission I made to work around bugs which I purposefully made so that it wouldn't get out of review, since it's not ready it, did get republished.
We're pretty much at that point in the "coming back online" process where the auto-publish has gone through but editor hasn't been turned back on yet. So, more or less where we left off when we had the emergency second downtime. Missions are back online, so give some a try so we can be sure that nothing major has come up.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
They're performing maintenance tomorrow, so it'll probably be back up then.
Editor being down is still listed in the patch notes. We're probably being given time to test missions before editing and reviewing are brought back online. So, we may not see the editor back for a few days (or longer, depending on developments and how busy things are in Cryptic.)
Given that we are exiting downtime, and that there are missions to play/test, we can probably wind this discussion down. No need to keep bumping up a thread with the title "getting boring..." when there have been significant updates and we do have content to play.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I suppose we can transfer this thread into a way to inform people who don't have Twitter or Facebook (like myself) so we or Cryptic can inform when the Foundry is fully back on, as for when the editor will be back on I'd say no sooner then early next week.
I suppose we can transfer this thread into a way to inform people who don't have Twitter or Facebook (like myself) so we or Cryptic can inform when the Foundry is fully back on, as for when the editor will be back on I'd say no sooner then early next week.
Done, see new title.
thanks, it certainly helps to have way to stay informed on this forum instead of having to use Twitter or Facebook for it.
Comments
That's why me and Duncan have been calling for patience in this matter pretty from the start of the downtime, it's well known that devs are very unwilling to give dates unless they're ironclad. As Duncan said above having a lack of patience about this matter will not bring the foundry back any faster.
Actually, it would. See. Kael's lecture just about every hour of Ten Forward Weekly.
The reasons why devs don't give specific timetables on bug fixes (unless it's locked in for the next patch) is the same as why they don't give specific timetables or outlines of upcoming content prior to an official announcement. Missing those original estimates (which happens in development, things happen) can upset people. They don't want to invite that unnecessary gut punch (even it only provokes simple disappointment), so Cryptic's told us that the Foundry will be back soon.
If it was just us, Cryptic probably still wouldn't set firm dates when they weren't sure of the results. However understanding we might be, they don't want to let us down.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
That is absolutely not what it means in this case. Paraphrased from Ten Forward Weekly: "not this week, but soon." The probability of that leading well into 2018 seems remote.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
But as I mentioned informing Foundry with estimates of fixes or downtime but not informing about upcoming content could be seen as favortism (hell I know players who think Foundry existing outside of accolade/loot/endeavor cheat device for them is favortism) and the devs don't want to be seen playing favorites so no-one gets even estimates.
And it's not like Cryptic is unique in this matter Blizzard Entertainment is infamous for not giving anything timeframe except "when it's ready" until they've locked down the release date and they're not only ones doing it either, there's at least CDproject Red and possibly as well Rockstar who do that exact same thing.
No. Tuesday.
In the meantime there are other things to do outside STO.
In the meantime, level up my ToS character to Admiral.
Episode Four - Head Of A Needle Episode Five: The Duality of Men Episode Six - Redemption Earned
Episode Seven - Shattered Universe Episode Eight - The Gepetto Condition Episode Nine - One Room, Two Officers
Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest Star Episode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't Hurt Episode Twelve - A Protracted Officer
Episode Thirteen - Somewhen Episode Fourteen - The Boy Who Lived Episode Fifthteen - Empathy
as I said before there's those people who would take any given date as a "must absolutely happen at this date" kind of thing, not so much on the foundry community but the devs can't play favorites either. That's why they don't give dates for anything what so ever they don't want to disapoint and anger people when vague initial timetables weren't met. Also as I said it's in no ways unique to Cryptic.
Sure I'd wish we could have more info, but then I also wish I could get 1 000 000 000 € per day (legally) by doing nothing but that's not gonna happen so I've accepted that it won't happen.
Also this was clearly a bigger issue then orginally thought of (seeing as it affected Neverwinter Foundry as well) so there's no reason to panic or rage just yet. It seems we might be getting fixes to some long standing bugs too like the transition bug as "Resolved an issue with the Foundry where players could only preview the first map" seems a lot like fixing a transition bug.
Patience is a virtue that's very useful here, there's enough stressful things in the world to not make mountains out of mole hills.
Kael confirmed in the patch nodes forum thread that the Foundry (ie. missions) was coming back today (editor later, as usual.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
yeah I've seen the thread, I just worded my post conservatively (in a non-political way) to not get anyones hopes up for nothing, you're biologist Duncan you should recognize scientific language when you see it
Never say that "something is" that implies absolute truth, but rather say that "something seems to be" accepting that you and others are flawble and thus can be wrong or simply inaccurate..
"The Foundry is back" was the wording Kael used in the thread (second post down).
I'm going to have a little fun with this one, so bear with me.
Absolute truth is a philosophical concept, not a scientific one. One asserts truth through the strength of a rhetorical argument. The audience can then choose to believe this or not based on the speaker's powers of persuasion. Under no circumstances though is truth actually obtained. What's established and potentially re-aligned (in a non-scientific discussion) are the social attitudes of the people involved (ie. how does one feel towards something.)
Science largely dispenses with the ad hoc nature of human discourse and approaches problems statistically. This allows us to gauge the weight of evidence for an assertion quantitatively, so it can be more objectively compared to other ideas. While in a casual conversation it's not always possible to perform statistical testing on the subjects under discussion, one can still consider problems in terms of a balance of probability as opposed to absolute truth (which is just rhetoric.)
So take Kael saying "the Foundry is back." While there was no absolute proof that the Foundry was coming back, the balance of probability was strongly in favor of it. That probability wasn't exactly equal to 1.00 (nothing is, thanks to quantum mechanics) but that fact doesn't necessarily weight the alternate hypothesis (foundry =/= returning) high enough to reference in discussion at that point. These are for example: Kael jumping the gun, the fix not being fully tested, or a catastrophic bug arising with some other aspect of the Foundry. Each would have been uncharacteristic (ie. at an intuited probability some factor less than 0.05) to have happened this morning. So, comparing the null (Foundry = back) to the alternate (Foundry =/= back) hypothesis and the evidence of the patch notes and Kael's assurance (strictly forcing unusual scenarios to support the alternate), this morning one could probably say "It's coming back!" and get away with it.
Earlier, that wasn't possible because "the devs need more time to fix the problem" couldn't be rejected from our intuitive analysis (without further developments). The balance of probability was at a different point which favored multiple possibilities (ex. it'll be back next week).
So, we could say "the Foundry is back" on the basis of a balance of intuitive probability without final confirmation. While we lack absolute truth (and stuff could always come up), context provided probabilistic surety to say something about what's going on with the universe (in this case: the STO Foundry.) We might be wrong, but that's simply a restatement of the original point that a scientific outlook does not consider absolute fact but statistical likelihood. It goes without saying. Thus, the important point isn't to avoid absolute phrasing (which a scientific outlook will always consider probabilistically), it's to avoid absolute thinking.
That is all.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
that said even though it seems so the editor is not up, I repeat the EDITOR IS NOT UP trying to Access it will make get stuck in a loading screen.
EDIT:I had to kill the process to get out said loading screen.
We mentioned and retweeted it on twitter. The right people are likely to have seen it but the issue isn't all that severe (it can trap people but the worst there is a game restarted and a lesson learned) so I think we can get away with it.
What we want to focus on now is testing missions so we can give Cryptic the collective okay to proceed with the Foundry's reactivation ASAP (ie. simply turn the editor on.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
My problem atm is that my completed mission didn't get auto-republished and obviously I can't manually republish it without the editor. Though ironically the "testing" mission I made to work around bugs which I purposefully made so that it wouldn't get out of review, since it's not ready it, did get republished.
nvm ... still broke.
We're pretty much at that point in the "coming back online" process where the auto-publish has gone through but editor hasn't been turned back on yet. So, more or less where we left off when we had the emergency second downtime. Missions are back online, so give some a try so we can be sure that nothing major has come up.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Editor being down is still listed in the patch notes. We're probably being given time to test missions before editing and reviewing are brought back online. So, we may not see the editor back for a few days (or longer, depending on developments and how busy things are in Cryptic.)
Given that we are exiting downtime, and that there are missions to play/test, we can probably wind this discussion down. No need to keep bumping up a thread with the title "getting boring..." when there have been significant updates and we do have content to play.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!