That's what you canonheads get when you slavishly stick to the 'CBS (only) says what canon is' mantra. It has come around and bit you in the a*s.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
They call them "Klingons" because it's a RETCON. "Retraction of continuity", look it up.
They call them Klingons because they are Klingons.
Ridge headed aliens from Kronos. Created and owned by CBS who can call whatever they damn well please a Klingons you weird little nutter.
The only thing that's being retconed is that some Klingons look like theses ones. Not that other Klingons now look like these ones.
It's retroactive continuity, not retraction of continuity, look it up. Or, you know, actually read the post you replied to.
Okay, you're making my own argument for me. CBS says "This is Klingons"
Audience member says: "They don't look Klingon"
CBS says :Tough, they're klingons.
Audicence:but they don't look Klingon, they look like lizard-orks.
CBS says: we own IP, we decide what Klingon looks like.
Audience: but they don't look like that in the rest of the timeline, is this an alternate?
CBS; this is prime timeline, all Klingon look like this Klingon!!
Audience: no they don't.
CBS: YEs, they do, because we own IP. All Klingon look like CBS Klingon!
This is retroactive continuity. We're not supposed to notice the difference.
Watches TMP
Audience: What are those?
Paramount: Klingons
Audience: They don’t look like Klingons
Paramount: Tough, they’re Klingons
Audience: but they don’t look like Klingons, they look like guys with ridge appliances on their heads.
Paramount: We own the IP. We decide what Klingons look like
Audience: They didn’t look like that in the show.
Paramount: All Klingons Look like this now.
Audience: no they don’t
Paramount: All Klingons now look like this. We own the IP.
Moral of the story: This ain’t the first time someone changed the Klingons because they could
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
D7 was never the name of the battlecruiser. It's a description. There's two D5s after all, the one in ENT and the IKS Groth. Nice try.
Widely referred to as D7 in writing and behind the scenes, the designation was not actually referenced on screen until Star Trek's 30th anniversary, in the DS9 Season 5 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", and later in the VOY Season 7 episode "Prophecy". So yes. On screen. Called a D7.
D7 was never the name of the battlecruiser. It's a description. There's two D5s after all, the one in ENT and the IKS Groth. Nice try.
Widely referred to as D7 in writing and behind the scenes, the designation was not actually referenced on screen until Star Trek's 30th anniversary, in the DS9 Season 5 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", and later in the VOY Season 7 episode "Prophecy". So yes. On screen. Called a D7.
Yeah, but it's not the proper name of the ship class. Unless you think the Klingons named it D7...
Yeah, but it's not the proper name of the ship class. Unless you think the Klingons named it D7...
I think the Klingons named it a D7. Since the Klingons don't really talk about it on the shows, I assume they are unimaginative. This impression is reinforced by using the B'rel class for 100 years or so.
Conversely, you could assume it was what Starfleet identified ship as some shorthand of what Klingons called it. You could also assume the name was the result of a Starfleet designation system independent of what the Klingons called it. Regardless, someone on a Starfleet vessel labeled it a "D7". On screen. Which was the point of my post.
However, personal feeling aside. If the TRIBBLE Klingon look is put in-game. I can live with it.
If it's made the mandatory appearance. Then the highest likelihood is that I'll have to alien gen all my klingons, to look like real klingons. Not some screwed up looking space bat/monkey hybrid thing.
But, given we already have a Klingon look in game. For all klingons, which would require a lot of time and effort on Cryptic's part to go in and change them all. The best likelihood here is that, if it's added, it will be as an appearance option.
I've already come up with a more plausible reason for their appearance and which could how they are a part of the game.
If they forced the purple people eaters look then I would at least never play KDF again, not that the devs would care since Feds are all that matter to them.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Paramount: We own the IP. We decide what Klingons look like
Audience: They didn’t look like that in the show.
Paramount: All Klingons Look like this now.
Audience: no they don’t
Who is this strange audience member? I sure can tell you that I've never met the chap before. In my household we said "hey, neat" and went on with our lives. I can tell you it was much more enjoyable than trying to hoist our aesthetic preferences onto a visual art form to specifically spite the fact that we don't own it.
(Feedback is one thing but wresting creative control by moral persuasion is another.)
(PS. satire recognized, just using it as a platform for a moment.)
We’ve had the discovery uniforms released on pc and console, so where is the KDF style uniforms as seen in the series. Us KDF players have little choice when it comes to outfitting our toons and if we want a more stylish uniform then payable additions comes into play. We got given the worf sash because of the 30th anniversary but fed players got access to the next gen costume aswell and all we got was a hairstyle. I’m kind of glad that there is some decent ships coming soon with the miracle worker packs but I would like to see Cryptic and Perfect World bring the exceptional Klingon costumes from Star Trek Discovery.
And (to finally provide an answer to the OP) the following is Cryptic's stance on Discovery content (as disucssed on Ten Forward Weekly).
1. They don't talk about upcoming content.
2. That said, They're a CBS licensed game and they'd be fools not to make use of Discovery...as they have every other part of the IP
(Including a nod to TAS via the Ferasans.)
It's pretty much certain that at least some Discovery Klingon content will arrive in STO. The question is exactly how much, when, and through what delivery mechanism (eg. c-store, lock boxes). Cryptic will announce those details when they're ready to.
If they forced the purple people eaters look then I would at least never play KDF again, not that the devs would care since Feds are all that matter to them.
There is no chance that Cryptic will force Klingon players to use any new customization options added for Discovery. This does not happen in modern STO (see. Kelvin Klingons).
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Possibly but given that Discovery is the only active part of the franchise at the moment I could also see them populating the C-store with Discovery content.
(They are starting to run out of marketable ships and uniforms from the other series. I know there's stuff still to get to but a dedicated run through T6 Nova, Vorcha, Oberth, Constellation, and Ambassador could leave 2019 with tumbleweeds if Cryptic doesn't look to "new strategies." We've presumed "off-spec re-releases" or T7 but Discovery does give Cryptic new material and possibly over the long-term too, depending on how the series goes and what follows.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Just don't get in the way of my T6 Oberth which I am hoping gets added next year, if it's nothing but TRIBBLE content released for the whole year I would be displeased.
They call them "Klingons" because it's a RETCON. "Retraction of continuity", look it up.
They call them Klingons because they are Klingons.
Ridge headed aliens from Kronos. Created and owned by CBS who can call whatever they damn well please a Klingons you weird little nutter.
The only thing that's being retconed is that some Klingons look like theses ones. Not that other Klingons now look like these ones.
It's retroactive continuity, not retraction of continuity, look it up. Or, you know, actually read the post you replied to.
Okay, you're making my own argument for me. CBS says "This is Klingons"
Audience member says: "They don't look Klingon"
CBS says :Tough, they're klingons.
Audicence:but they don't look Klingon, they look like lizard-orks.
CBS says: we own IP, we decide what Klingon looks like.
Audience: but they don't look like that in the rest of the timeline, is this an alternate?
CBS; this is prime timeline, all Klingon look like this Klingon!!
Audience: no they don't.
CBS: YEs, they do, because we own IP. All Klingon look like CBS Klingon!
This is retroactive continuity. We're not supposed to notice the difference.
Watches TMP
Audience: What are those?
Paramount: Klingons
Audience: They don’t look like Klingons
Paramount: Tough, they’re Klingons
Audience: but they don’t look like Klingons, they look like guys with ridge appliances on their heads.
Paramount: We own the IP. We decide what Klingons look like
Audience: They didn’t look like that in the show.
Paramount: All Klingons Look like this now.
Audience: no they don’t
Paramount: All Klingons now look like this. We own the IP.
Moral of the story: This ain’t the first time someone changed the Klingons because they could
TMP and Star Trek IV: The Undiscovered Country had Klingons with ridges. In some of the TOS scenes with Kirk and Kor, you can see a Klingon in the background that that has the hardened brow and what looks to be the start of the ridges. But all of this was explained via the augment virus. Which the augment virus has happening from before ENT.
So use that as the base.
Ent klingons look much like the klingons we have now. Retcon, happens before Discovery.
Discovery klingons look like a klingon and a tellerite had a kid. While another klingon and reman had kid, and then these two kids got together and had a kid. Retcon, how they appear before TOS.
TOS brought us both ridged and ridgeless klingons. The latter being caused by the augment virus. Which was cured in the TOS era.
TNG, Voy, and DS9 all used the ridged klingons we have now. Worf even states in one of the Time travel episodes about the ridgeless klingons, "We do not talk about it." Which points back the the augment virus.
Now to jump back deep into klingon lore. The hur'q created the klingons. This was done via genetic manipulation to make a species of warriors. There are two versions of this. The Fek'lhr and the klingons. The former being the first attempt at this. The latter being what we have. Here is the beginning of the augment virus.
What do we know about the augment virus? That like any virus is can skip generations. It's a genetic problem after all. Now to note here, the klingons in ST IV had ridges. This is because they were from the Undiscovered Country and were mostly unaffected by the augment virus.
This means that the klingons in Discovery, look like that for the Discovery Era. Why, because we already know what they look like after. Is it possible for the klingons to look like that they do in Discovery? Yes, via the augment virus. Aside from the armor and weapons, these look like they were designed by an art major that spent to much time playing Tera and watching anime.
Why is it important to note the augment virus here? That's also in klingon lore. A klingon child reaches the age of maturity at the same time a human child reaches the age of 8 or 9. Why is this important to know? It means that the potential maximum of generations of klingons born every 100 years is 10. This leaves a lot of room for genetic differences to come about.
The other interesting thing to note here is, we do not know exactly when the klingons where created. We know that the Klingon Empire started with Kahless' victory over Molor. This was 1000 years ago via the klingon calendar, which is longer than the earth calendar. Using the rough numbers, this means the klingons became free somewhere around 1000 A.D. on Earth. This of note, why? It means from the start of the Empire to the humans discovering warp travel, roughly 1100 Earth years, there could be a maximum of 110 generations of klingons. Anyone want to do the probability math of the genetic differences that can occur during this time, with the added random variable of the augment virus?
Side note:
We do not know much of what happened before Kahless' time. This is because until Kahless' victory over Molor, the klingons were enslaved by the Fek'lhr and Hur'q. Meaning the klingons could have been a space faring species long before this. Since the Hur'q are from the Gamma Quadrant.
Side note:
We do not know much of what happened before Kahless' time. This is because until Kahless' victory over Molor, the klingons were enslaved by the Fek'lhr and Hur'q. Meaning the klingons could have been a space faring species long before this. Since the Hur'q are from the Gamma Quadrant.
Seems more likely to me that they weren't and acquired their FTL tech from the Hur'q. Why? In-universe they were described as "farmers".
Yeah, but it's not the proper name of the ship class. Unless you think the Klingons named it D7...
I think the Klingons named it a D7. Since the Klingons don't really talk about it on the shows, I assume they are unimaginative. This impression is reinforced by using the B'rel class for 100 years or so.
Conversely, you could assume it was what Starfleet identified ship as some shorthand of what Klingons called it. You could also assume the name was the result of a Starfleet designation system independent of what the Klingons called it. Regardless, someone on a Starfleet vessel labeled it a "D7". On screen. Which was the point of my post.
Yeah... and those designations don't really mean much from an in-universe standpoint. Two different things got designated D5.
Yeah, but it's not the proper name of the ship class. Unless you think the Klingons named it D7...
I think the Klingons named it a D7. Since the Klingons don't really talk about it on the shows, I assume they are unimaginative. This impression is reinforced by using the B'rel class for 100 years or so.
Conversely, you could assume it was what Starfleet identified ship as some shorthand of what Klingons called it. You could also assume the name was the result of a Starfleet designation system independent of what the Klingons called it. Regardless, someone on a Starfleet vessel labeled it a "D7". On screen. Which was the point of my post.
Yeah... and those designations don't really mean much from an in-universe standpoint. Two different things got designated D5.
The D5 and D7 things would be more of a series designation. i.e the M16-A1, M16-A2, M16-A3 and M16-A4. The same goes with tanks, M1-A1, M1-A2, M1-A3 and M1-A4. Granted I don't think this Abrahms has made it this far in the series.
Using that for this.. it would be <Type> Bird-of-Prey, D5 or D7.
Side note:
We do not know much of what happened before Kahless' time. This is because until Kahless' victory over Molor, the klingons were enslaved by the Fek'lhr and Hur'q. Meaning the klingons could have been a space faring species long before this. Since the Hur'q are from the Gamma Quadrant.
Seems more likely to me that they weren't and acquired their FTL tech from the Hur'q. Why? In-universe they were described as "farmers".
They do yes. But that's also before caste system became a thing. But then they're....
But at the time of Kahless, the Hur'q had already left, leaving the Fek'lhr in charge. Though we know the Fek'lhr have FLT tech. Or at least inter-dimensional tech, given they use gateways to travel. One could relatively compare this to the transwarp gateways. It's not improbable that they could have reverse engineered it. Kahless did leave for the stars after all.
Here is the thing that comes to my mind. During this time, Kahless forged the first bat'leth, which he used to defeat Molor. This happened after the klingons had taken the capital city. The Honorable Thee Ogat, Kolos and To'kar are a look at the weapons used before this. These would be the mek'leth, gen'tak spear or polearms, and a mek'leth and shield setup. So we know they had warriors during the time before the Empire's birth.
The use of the word "farmer" might be indicative of their unwillingness to use the word "slave." Since they were enslaved by the Hur'q and Fek'lhr.
I think he was saying that they're incomplete, and can't perfectly replicate the look of the uniforms in TOS.[/quote]
Not sure what's missing? Got 2 tops + trousers/belt/boots for males, 3 tops + shorts/boots for females plus chainguards depending on costume.
[/quote]
The females cannot use the trousers. The ranks and the fanged badge are not available. The TAS purple colour is not available. The TAS skirt is not available (though there might be a replacement by now). The TOS Gorn and Orion costumes made for AoY are not available either. The belt is also not available for females.
D7 was never the name of the battlecruiser. It's a description. There's two D5s after all, the one in ENT and the IKS Groth. Nice try.
Widely referred to as D7 in writing and behind the scenes, the designation was not actually referenced on screen until Star Trek's 30th anniversary, in the DS9 Season 5 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", and later in the VOY Season 7 episode "Prophecy". So yes. On screen. Called a D7.
I said it's not the name of the ship not that the designation was never used.
In addition we've got the D4 BoP and the D12 BoP. A pre-refit K't'inga identified as a D5 and a separate Battlecruiser called a D5. I don't think the 'D' designations are Klingon names at all.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A bit over the top with the invective there, heh. Keep that kind of personal insult off the boards both of you.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I think he was saying that they're incomplete, and can't perfectly replicate the look of the uniforms in TOS.
Not sure what's missing? Got 2 tops + trousers/belt/boots for males, 3 tops + shorts/boots for females plus chainguards depending on costume.
[/quote]
The females cannot use the trousers. The ranks and the fanged badge are not available. The TAS purple colour is not available. The TAS skirt is not available (though there might be a replacement by now). The TOS Gorn and Orion costumes made for AoY are not available either. The belt is also not available for females.
D7 was never the name of the battlecruiser. It's a description. There's two D5s after all, the one in ENT and the IKS Groth. Nice try.
Widely referred to as D7 in writing and behind the scenes, the designation was not actually referenced on screen until Star Trek's 30th anniversary, in the DS9 Season 5 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", and later in the VOY Season 7 episode "Prophecy". So yes. On screen. Called a D7.
I said it's not the name of the ship not that the designation was never used.
In addition we've got the D4 BoP and the D12 BoP. A pre-refit K't'inga identified as a D5 and a separate Battlecruiser called a D5. I don't think the 'D' designations are Klingon names at all.
There's a bit too many personal attacks going on in this thread. Let's take a step back and get some perspective. It's only a show.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Might want to suggest they look in to that. It did quote, without actually quoting. First time I've seen it, might have just been a random thing.
But, back on topic. As I pointed out. We do have a viable means within lore to explain the Discovery klingons appearance. Do I like it? Personally, no I don't. But, my opinion on this doesn't matter. If Cryptic and CBS decide to add this in as an appearance. I have no problem with it. I just hope that it's as an optional appearance.
If they make it standard, I hope they offer a race change with it. So I can make my klingons into the Alien race and make them look like Klingons. Instead of discovery klingons. Since it was pointed out in the previous thread I linked, by @patrickngo
biggest problem is that the Discovery team added a pseudoscientific reason for the ridges-they're channels for some kind of special 'apex predator sense' that Klingons have and that works like magic.
There are other flaws to your concept as well-because it doesn't account for the double-nostrils (confirmed in the first scene of Discovery), the fortified and concealed 'ear hole cones' where Enterprise, TMP and TNG Klingons have pretty much normal humanoid ears, the protruding structure to the faces (not nose and forehead, but the angled flanges running from cheekbone to jaw, and around the jaw), and the hyper-pumped, fixed-scowl mouth prosthetics...and the teeth. Discovery klingons have ridged PLATES for teeth, instead of...y'know, teeth, which alters how their mouths work and function.
The ridging on TNG, TMP, Enterprise etc. Klingons had an existing purpose-they were extra reinforcement for the skulls of a race of aggressive hunters and warriors. Discovery's klingons have a skull that is MORE vulnerable, thanks to the lacework of added passages shown IN the skull pictures (Ep 3 and the ST:LV panel), making the forebrain more vulnerable, with a skull extension or 'dormer' built into the back of the Discovery Klingon's head, as well as additional, actuallly boney ridging along the rear of the skull. (making hte easiest way to kill one wiht a blunt strike being a punch to the face, while adding additional leverage for snapping their neck from behind, including a nice, textured gripping surface.)
further, as seen on screen, unlike familiar Klingon types from the previous properties, Discovery's klingons move slowly and awkwardly, they can't run, jump, twist rapidly or execute martial arts moves, this perhaps explains the reliance on heavy, plate type armors, since they also can't turn their heads the full range that a human can (MOST unlike TOS, TNG and TMP klingons), reducing their situational awareness and creating the need for this magic Apex Predator sense (which somehow ceases to work if they have hair, so the hair had to go.)
in short, they might be physically stronger in a deadlift, but that's a short lift, thanks to lack of range of motion, they can't chase prey down, they have to wait for it to come to them, (Unless it's REALLY slow)...
for a warrior race, they're pretty pathetic, really. observing other aspects of the "T'Kuvma" Klingons indicates they're not only not built to fight, but they also don't build to fight. The Discovery-era Bat'leth, for example, has no angle you can hold it where it isn't presenting the user with a sharpened blade aimed in their direction. Their Disruptors are laid out to be bulky, hard to aim, and have "Spikes, because spikes are AWSUM and Warrior-like!!" (but those spikes aren't arranged to be useful in melee combat, and would hinder a user in a multitude of ways), and the "Scaly ridge" motif on their daggers pretty much makes them impractical once there's blood or other fluids on the grip, since they're not easy to hold or control even when dry-way to go, warriors.
We actually SEE THIS in the first episode when Burnham accidentally causes the Torchbearer to stab himself with his own blade-because that's how the silly damn thing was designed!
I said it's not the name of the ship not that the designation was never used.
Was this ship called a "D7" on screen? Yes. Was it often referred to as a "D7" off screen? Yes.
Even if the same ship was called a 'D5', 'D6', 'D8', or 'D124', it was also called... a 'D7'. Since the designation system was never fleshed out, I have no idea what the differences are between those ships. Maybe the 'D5' has a sunroof and the 'D7' has power door locks. However, I know what they look like because that is what was said on screen. Which is the point. We know what a 'D7' looks like.
Are you making some sort of semantics argument here? "Designation" vs "name"? Why? Many people recognize this ship as a 'D7'. If your issue is 'we don't know what it was called in the original Klingon' well, alright. However, Starfleet called it a 'D7', so until the Klingon name for it comes up, 'D7' is perfectly fine. It's also totally fine to call it a "Klingon Battlecruiser" or "Warship" or 'D5' or any other name we have seen it called. I'm not trying to imply that the "correct" term is 'D7'.
I said it's not the name of the ship not that the designation was never used.
Was this ship called a "D7" on screen? Yes. Was it often referred to as a "D7" off screen? Yes.
Even if the same ship was called a 'D5', 'D6', 'D8', or 'D124', it was also called... a 'D7'. Since the designation system was never fleshed out, I have no idea what the differences are between those ships. Maybe the 'D5' has a sunroof and the 'D7' has power door locks. However, I know what they look like because that is what was said on screen. Which is the point. We know what a 'D7' looks like.
Are you making some sort of semantics argument here? "Designation" vs "name"? Why? Many people recognize this ship as a 'D7'. If your issue is 'we don't know what it was called in the original Klingon' well, alright. However, Starfleet called it a 'D7', so until the Klingon name for it comes up, 'D7' is perfectly fine. It's also totally fine to call it a "Klingon Battlecruiser" or "Warship" or 'D5' or any other name we have seen it called. I'm not trying to imply that the "correct" term is 'D7'.
The Klingon name for it is K't'inga. That's the ship in the VGR episode Paris refers to as a D7. The TOS battle-cruisers aren't identified as anything onscreen beyond battlecruisers (if even that). Not D7s and nothing else.
Anyway my original point was that the D7 Prison ship from DSC is not meant to be the same D7 Battlecruiser from TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Watches TMP
Audience: What are those?
Paramount: Klingons
Audience: They don’t look like Klingons
Paramount: Tough, they’re Klingons
Audience: but they don’t look like Klingons, they look like guys with ridge appliances on their heads.
Paramount: We own the IP. We decide what Klingons look like
Audience: They didn’t look like that in the show.
Paramount: All Klingons Look like this now.
Audience: no they don’t
Paramount: All Klingons now look like this. We own the IP.
Moral of the story: This ain’t the first time someone changed the Klingons because they could
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My character Tsin'xing
Conversely, you could assume it was what Starfleet identified ship as some shorthand of what Klingons called it. You could also assume the name was the result of a Starfleet designation system independent of what the Klingons called it. Regardless, someone on a Starfleet vessel labeled it a "D7". On screen. Which was the point of my post.
If they forced the purple people eaters look then I would at least never play KDF again, not that the devs would care since Feds are all that matter to them.
Who is this strange audience member? I sure can tell you that I've never met the chap before. In my household we said "hey, neat" and went on with our lives. I can tell you it was much more enjoyable than trying to hoist our aesthetic preferences onto a visual art form to specifically spite the fact that we don't own it.
(Feedback is one thing but wresting creative control by moral persuasion is another.)
(PS. satire recognized, just using it as a platform for a moment.)
And (to finally provide an answer to the OP) the following is Cryptic's stance on Discovery content (as disucssed on Ten Forward Weekly).
1. They don't talk about upcoming content.
2. That said, They're a CBS licensed game and they'd be fools not to make use of Discovery...as they have every other part of the IP
(Including a nod to TAS via the Ferasans.)
It's pretty much certain that at least some Discovery Klingon content will arrive in STO. The question is exactly how much, when, and through what delivery mechanism (eg. c-store, lock boxes). Cryptic will announce those details when they're ready to.
There is no chance that Cryptic will force Klingon players to use any new customization options added for Discovery. This does not happen in modern STO (see. Kelvin Klingons).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
and caitians, and personal shields, and the delta triangle, and whatever else of TAS is in STO
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Possibly but given that Discovery is the only active part of the franchise at the moment I could also see them populating the C-store with Discovery content.
(They are starting to run out of marketable ships and uniforms from the other series. I know there's stuff still to get to but a dedicated run through T6 Nova, Vorcha, Oberth, Constellation, and Ambassador could leave 2019 with tumbleweeds if Cryptic doesn't look to "new strategies." We've presumed "off-spec re-releases" or T7 but Discovery does give Cryptic new material and possibly over the long-term too, depending on how the series goes and what follows.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Also, Cryptic! Please put gameplay on the bridge! Ty!
TMP and Star Trek IV: The Undiscovered Country had Klingons with ridges. In some of the TOS scenes with Kirk and Kor, you can see a Klingon in the background that that has the hardened brow and what looks to be the start of the ridges. But all of this was explained via the augment virus. Which the augment virus has happening from before ENT.
So use that as the base.
Ent klingons look much like the klingons we have now. Retcon, happens before Discovery.
Discovery klingons look like a klingon and a tellerite had a kid. While another klingon and reman had kid, and then these two kids got together and had a kid. Retcon, how they appear before TOS.
TOS brought us both ridged and ridgeless klingons. The latter being caused by the augment virus. Which was cured in the TOS era.
TNG, Voy, and DS9 all used the ridged klingons we have now. Worf even states in one of the Time travel episodes about the ridgeless klingons, "We do not talk about it." Which points back the the augment virus.
Now to jump back deep into klingon lore. The hur'q created the klingons. This was done via genetic manipulation to make a species of warriors. There are two versions of this. The Fek'lhr and the klingons. The former being the first attempt at this. The latter being what we have. Here is the beginning of the augment virus.
What do we know about the augment virus? That like any virus is can skip generations. It's a genetic problem after all. Now to note here, the klingons in ST IV had ridges. This is because they were from the Undiscovered Country and were mostly unaffected by the augment virus.
This means that the klingons in Discovery, look like that for the Discovery Era. Why, because we already know what they look like after. Is it possible for the klingons to look like that they do in Discovery? Yes, via the augment virus. Aside from the armor and weapons, these look like they were designed by an art major that spent to much time playing Tera and watching anime.
Why is it important to note the augment virus here? That's also in klingon lore. A klingon child reaches the age of maturity at the same time a human child reaches the age of 8 or 9. Why is this important to know? It means that the potential maximum of generations of klingons born every 100 years is 10. This leaves a lot of room for genetic differences to come about.
The other interesting thing to note here is, we do not know exactly when the klingons where created. We know that the Klingon Empire started with Kahless' victory over Molor. This was 1000 years ago via the klingon calendar, which is longer than the earth calendar. Using the rough numbers, this means the klingons became free somewhere around 1000 A.D. on Earth. This of note, why? It means from the start of the Empire to the humans discovering warp travel, roughly 1100 Earth years, there could be a maximum of 110 generations of klingons. Anyone want to do the probability math of the genetic differences that can occur during this time, with the added random variable of the augment virus?
Side note:
We do not know much of what happened before Kahless' time. This is because until Kahless' victory over Molor, the klingons were enslaved by the Fek'lhr and Hur'q. Meaning the klingons could have been a space faring species long before this. Since the Hur'q are from the Gamma Quadrant.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
The D5 and D7 things would be more of a series designation. i.e the M16-A1, M16-A2, M16-A3 and M16-A4. The same goes with tanks, M1-A1, M1-A2, M1-A3 and M1-A4. Granted I don't think this Abrahms has made it this far in the series.
Using that for this.. it would be <Type> Bird-of-Prey, D5 or D7.
They do yes. But that's also before caste system became a thing. But then they're....
Because even warriors need to eat.
But at the time of Kahless, the Hur'q had already left, leaving the Fek'lhr in charge. Though we know the Fek'lhr have FLT tech. Or at least inter-dimensional tech, given they use gateways to travel. One could relatively compare this to the transwarp gateways. It's not improbable that they could have reverse engineered it. Kahless did leave for the stars after all.
Here is the thing that comes to my mind. During this time, Kahless forged the first bat'leth, which he used to defeat Molor. This happened after the klingons had taken the capital city. The Honorable Thee Ogat, Kolos and To'kar are a look at the weapons used before this. These would be the mek'leth, gen'tak spear or polearms, and a mek'leth and shield setup. So we know they had warriors during the time before the Empire's birth.
The use of the word "farmer" might be indicative of their unwillingness to use the word "slave." Since they were enslaved by the Hur'q and Fek'lhr.
Here, this helps to understand it.
Not sure what's missing? Got 2 tops + trousers/belt/boots for males, 3 tops + shorts/boots for females plus chainguards depending on costume.
[/quote]
The females cannot use the trousers. The ranks and the fanged badge are not available. The TAS purple colour is not available. The TAS skirt is not available (though there might be a replacement by now). The TOS Gorn and Orion costumes made for AoY are not available either. The belt is also not available for females.
I said it's not the name of the ship not that the designation was never used.
In addition we've got the D4 BoP and the D12 BoP. A pre-refit K't'inga identified as a D5 and a separate Battlecruiser called a D5. I don't think the 'D' designations are Klingon names at all.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Not sure what's missing? Got 2 tops + trousers/belt/boots for males, 3 tops + shorts/boots for females plus chainguards depending on costume.
[/quote]
The females cannot use the trousers. The ranks and the fanged badge are not available. The TAS purple colour is not available. The TAS skirt is not available (though there might be a replacement by now). The TOS Gorn and Orion costumes made for AoY are not available either. The belt is also not available for females.
I said it's not the name of the ship not that the designation was never used.
In addition we've got the D4 BoP and the D12 BoP. A pre-refit K't'inga identified as a D5 and a separate Battlecruiser called a D5. I don't think the 'D' designations are Klingon names at all.
(Blasted comment eating forums on edit. Can we get someone to look in to this?)
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Might want to suggest they look in to that. It did quote, without actually quoting. First time I've seen it, might have just been a random thing.
But, back on topic. As I pointed out. We do have a viable means within lore to explain the Discovery klingons appearance. Do I like it? Personally, no I don't. But, my opinion on this doesn't matter. If Cryptic and CBS decide to add this in as an appearance. I have no problem with it. I just hope that it's as an optional appearance.
If they make it standard, I hope they offer a race change with it. So I can make my klingons into the Alien race and make them look like Klingons. Instead of discovery klingons. Since it was pointed out in the previous thread I linked, by @patrickngo
biggest problem is that the Discovery team added a pseudoscientific reason for the ridges-they're channels for some kind of special 'apex predator sense' that Klingons have and that works like magic.
There are other flaws to your concept as well-because it doesn't account for the double-nostrils (confirmed in the first scene of Discovery), the fortified and concealed 'ear hole cones' where Enterprise, TMP and TNG Klingons have pretty much normal humanoid ears, the protruding structure to the faces (not nose and forehead, but the angled flanges running from cheekbone to jaw, and around the jaw), and the hyper-pumped, fixed-scowl mouth prosthetics...and the teeth. Discovery klingons have ridged PLATES for teeth, instead of...y'know, teeth, which alters how their mouths work and function.
The ridging on TNG, TMP, Enterprise etc. Klingons had an existing purpose-they were extra reinforcement for the skulls of a race of aggressive hunters and warriors. Discovery's klingons have a skull that is MORE vulnerable, thanks to the lacework of added passages shown IN the skull pictures (Ep 3 and the ST:LV panel), making the forebrain more vulnerable, with a skull extension or 'dormer' built into the back of the Discovery Klingon's head, as well as additional, actuallly boney ridging along the rear of the skull. (making hte easiest way to kill one wiht a blunt strike being a punch to the face, while adding additional leverage for snapping their neck from behind, including a nice, textured gripping surface.)
further, as seen on screen, unlike familiar Klingon types from the previous properties, Discovery's klingons move slowly and awkwardly, they can't run, jump, twist rapidly or execute martial arts moves, this perhaps explains the reliance on heavy, plate type armors, since they also can't turn their heads the full range that a human can (MOST unlike TOS, TNG and TMP klingons), reducing their situational awareness and creating the need for this magic Apex Predator sense (which somehow ceases to work if they have hair, so the hair had to go.)
in short, they might be physically stronger in a deadlift, but that's a short lift, thanks to lack of range of motion, they can't chase prey down, they have to wait for it to come to them, (Unless it's REALLY slow)...
for a warrior race, they're pretty pathetic, really. observing other aspects of the "T'Kuvma" Klingons indicates they're not only not built to fight, but they also don't build to fight. The Discovery-era Bat'leth, for example, has no angle you can hold it where it isn't presenting the user with a sharpened blade aimed in their direction. Their Disruptors are laid out to be bulky, hard to aim, and have "Spikes, because spikes are AWSUM and Warrior-like!!" (but those spikes aren't arranged to be useful in melee combat, and would hinder a user in a multitude of ways), and the "Scaly ridge" motif on their daggers pretty much makes them impractical once there's blood or other fluids on the grip, since they're not easy to hold or control even when dry-way to go, warriors.
We actually SEE THIS in the first episode when Burnham accidentally causes the Torchbearer to stab himself with his own blade-because that's how the silly damn thing was designed!
Even if the same ship was called a 'D5', 'D6', 'D8', or 'D124', it was also called... a 'D7'. Since the designation system was never fleshed out, I have no idea what the differences are between those ships. Maybe the 'D5' has a sunroof and the 'D7' has power door locks. However, I know what they look like because that is what was said on screen. Which is the point. We know what a 'D7' looks like.
Are you making some sort of semantics argument here? "Designation" vs "name"? Why? Many people recognize this ship as a 'D7'. If your issue is 'we don't know what it was called in the original Klingon' well, alright. However, Starfleet called it a 'D7', so until the Klingon name for it comes up, 'D7' is perfectly fine. It's also totally fine to call it a "Klingon Battlecruiser" or "Warship" or 'D5' or any other name we have seen it called. I'm not trying to imply that the "correct" term is 'D7'.
The Klingon name for it is K't'inga. That's the ship in the VGR episode Paris refers to as a D7. The TOS battle-cruisers aren't identified as anything onscreen beyond battlecruisers (if even that). Not D7s and nothing else.
Anyway my original point was that the D7 Prison ship from DSC is not meant to be the same D7 Battlecruiser from TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!