Sorry, but core assault and binary circuit are some of the most inventive and team-intensive queues in the game. The PVP required in core assault is minimal, there’s barely any binary since it is bugged, and twin tribulations is a PvP free option. If you are boycotting the competitive queues because you think pvp is horrible, you’re not really being honest with yourself.
PvP Bolster: Basic abilities to Lieutenant bridge officer skills, no special powers, no running away, no doff abilities, no captains powers, no pets, no cloaks.. none of any of that. a straight fight. Of those abilities that remain they are tuned to a point that delay your death but it won't stop you from taking ever increasing damage from other players, so no infinite survivability. If a player should remain outside combat in the pvp arena for longer than 30 seconds they lose the round.
As far as dps, shield and hull hp, those are normalised based on ship type, escort, cruiser and science ship (the latter just a dps boost to remain competitive with escort and cruiser). Escorts have less hp on purpose but more dps, cruisers have the most hull but average shield hp and they lack a little dps, science ships have the strongest shields, average hull and average dps. Also turn, impulse and ineria has been more bunched together so escorts can't just out run everything and carriers are more competitive. No one ship has an overall advantage.
It doesn't matter who has what, everyone has exactly the same and if the bolster is perfectly balanced, there can't be any power creep or bias and to make sure all passive regens are disable no matter the alert condition in the arena.
a true deathmatch.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
It's funny how easy Cryptic just made the pvp queues insanely alive with a simple event. Well played.
Take that scoffers - see you in Gre'thor.
Doesn't address the underlying issue of BALANCE. Granted in an MMO where you have freedom to build characters, you will get the hardcore people who min/max the hell out of their stats, but therein lies the problem. Some hardcores don't CARE if someone is as hardcore or not. A kill is a kill. And some people actually go out of their way to find the weakest player and obliterate them, then insult their "lack of skill" for the lulz. Its people like that as well as som inbalance that does not make PvP fun for everyone.
As soon as the Endeavor ends, the PvP queues will die down.
This is exactly why I don't PvP.
As I said in a previous post. You can get by the bad apples of the PvP community with the private challenge function.
PvP Bolster: Basic abilities to Lieutenant bridge officer skills, no special powers, no running away, no doff abilities, no captains powers, no pets, no cloaks.. none of any of that. a straight fight. Of those abilities that remain they are tuned to a point that delay your death but it won't stop you from taking ever increasing damage from other players, so no infinite survivability. If a player should remain outside combat in the pvp arena for longer than 30 seconds they lose the round.
As far as dps, shield and hull hp, those are normalised based on ship type, escort, cruiser and science ship (the latter just a dps boost to remain competitive with escort and cruiser). Escorts have less hp on purpose but more dps, cruisers have the most hull but average shield hp and they lack a little dps, science ships have the strongest shields, average hull and average dps. Also turn, impulse and ineria has been more bunched together so escorts can't just out run everything and carriers are more competitive. No one ship has an overall advantage.
It doesn't matter who has what, everyone has exactly the same and if the bolster is perfectly balanced, there can't be any power creep or bias and to make sure all passive regens are disable no matter the alert condition in the arena.
a true deathmatch.
Yap, but in this version also a match that takes loads of builds and strategies away, regardless of what you like to fly. No pets? But if I like dreadnaughts I lose. No cloaks? Do roms even need to apply? Science ships only get a DPS boost - but why would I fly Sci if I cannot Sci with it?
Granted, a setup like this could be fun, but wouldn't really be STO.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
PvP Bolster: Basic abilities to Lieutenant bridge officer skills, no special powers, no running away, no doff abilities, no captains powers, no pets, no cloaks.. none of any of that. a straight fight. Of those abilities that remain they are tuned to a point that delay your death but it won't stop you from taking ever increasing damage from other players, so no infinite survivability. If a player should remain outside combat in the pvp arena for longer than 30 seconds they lose the round.
As far as dps, shield and hull hp, those are normalised based on ship type, escort, cruiser and science ship (the latter just a dps boost to remain competitive with escort and cruiser). Escorts have less hp on purpose but more dps, cruisers have the most hull but average shield hp and they lack a little dps, science ships have the strongest shields, average hull and average dps. Also turn, impulse and ineria has been more bunched together so escorts can't just out run everything and carriers are more competitive. No one ship has an overall advantage.
It doesn't matter who has what, everyone has exactly the same and if the bolster is perfectly balanced, there can't be any power creep or bias and to make sure all passive regens are disable no matter the alert condition in the arena.
a true deathmatch.
Yap, but in this version also a match that takes loads of builds and strategies away, regardless of what you like to fly. No pets? But if I like dreadnaughts I lose. No cloaks? Do roms even need to apply? Science ships only get a DPS boost - but why would I fly Sci if I cannot Sci with it?
Granted, a setup like this could be fun, but wouldn't really be STO.
if you want carriers and flight deck cruisers to have their pets? (the host ship) The one you control will have to have it's dps dialled back to the point it equals with the damage pets are doing so it equals out to that average dps, so cruisers with a hangar bay has less dps output than another cruiser and the extra pets bring the damage up to a level point. these pets will also have their regens disabled.
Cloaks are only used for tactical purposes, they are not a requirement for PvP which is straight out killing each other. Romulan ships always decloak to fight anyway so it makes fairly little difference especially without those special abilities like sro. in addition Romulans leave themselves open to torpedo strikes up on cloaking.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yes, this is an historical moment similar in scope to the driving of the Golden Spike at Promontory Point, where the first Transcontinental Railroad in the United States was officially completed on May 10, 1869. Yep, really historical.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
if you want carriers and flight deck cruisers to have their pets? (the host ship) The one you control will have to have it's dps dialled back to the point it equals with the damage pets are doing so it equals out to that average dps, so cruisers with a hangar bay has less dps output than another cruiser and the extra pets bring the damage up to a level point. these pets will also have their regens disabled.
Cloaks are only used for tactical purposes, they are not a requirement for PvP which is straight out killing each other. Romulan ships always decloak to fight anyway so it makes fairly little difference especially without those special abilities like sro. in addition Romulans leave themselves open to torpedo strikes up on cloaking.
I am not advocating for innate advantages, so of course a carrier needs to have disadvantages against similar ships without pets. Why regens should be disabled I don't understand.
And in my opinion tactics would easily have a place in PvP, not just point your ships at each other and fire until somebody is dead. So yeah, especially Roms should have their battle cloaks, because not giving it to them is taking out a whole playstyle (that cloaks offer problems with players not decloaking and similar notwithstanding). And leaving themselves open to torps - well, that is part of the game you have to consider.
I have the feeling that you have a strong dislike of all the gimmicks, and I can understand that. But at least the major ones (not each and every console) are part of this game. Taking them out would make it a totally different game.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
if you want carriers and flight deck cruisers to have their pets? (the host ship) The one you control will have to have it's dps dialled back to the point it equals with the damage pets are doing so it equals out to that average dps, so cruisers with a hangar bay has less dps output than another cruiser and the extra pets bring the damage up to a level point. these pets will also have their regens disabled.
Cloaks are only used for tactical purposes, they are not a requirement for PvP which is straight out killing each other. Romulan ships always decloak to fight anyway so it makes fairly little difference especially without those special abilities like sro. in addition Romulans leave themselves open to torpedo strikes up on cloaking.
I am not advocating for innate advantages, so of course a carrier needs to have disadvantages against similar ships without pets. Why regens should be disabled I don't understand.
And in my opinion tactics would easily have a place in PvP, not just point your ships at each other and fire until somebody is dead. So yeah, especially Roms should have their battle cloaks, because not giving it to them is taking out a whole playstyle (that cloaks offer problems with players not decloaking and similar notwithstanding). And leaving themselves open to torps - well, that is part of the game you have to consider.
I have the feeling that you have a strong dislike of all the gimmicks, and I can understand that. But at least the major ones (not each and every console) are part of this game. Taking them out would make it a totally different game.
Taking the passive regens off the pets keeps them from being a constant problem and the person with the carrier will need to launch more, it's especially more critical on frigate pets, those can really put out some damage, it's in order to level out the field a bit.
Battlecloaks don't help in a small arena, it's too fast paced to consider them really viable tactically and in a 1v1 it doesn't make a lot of sense as you still need to take your target out. in bigger arenas, it's possible, but there should be some serious limitations if these really should be considered.
I don't have much use for these Gimmicks, true, i have always seen them as a distraction from the real purpose of combat, and one that i've never even thought about over the years. If you are going to go for a glorious death, do it against a worth opponent on equal ground.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
if you want carriers and flight deck cruisers to have their pets? (the host ship) The one you control will have to have it's dps dialled back to the point it equals with the damage pets are doing so it equals out to that average dps, so cruisers with a hangar bay has less dps output than another cruiser and the extra pets bring the damage up to a level point. these pets will also have their regens disabled.
Cloaks are only used for tactical purposes, they are not a requirement for PvP which is straight out killing each other. Romulan ships always decloak to fight anyway so it makes fairly little difference especially without those special abilities like sro. in addition Romulans leave themselves open to torpedo strikes up on cloaking.
I am not advocating for innate advantages, so of course a carrier needs to have disadvantages against similar ships without pets. Why regens should be disabled I don't understand.
And in my opinion tactics would easily have a place in PvP, not just point your ships at each other and fire until somebody is dead. So yeah, especially Roms should have their battle cloaks, because not giving it to them is taking out a whole playstyle (that cloaks offer problems with players not decloaking and similar notwithstanding). And leaving themselves open to torps - well, that is part of the game you have to consider.
I have the feeling that you have a strong dislike of all the gimmicks, and I can understand that. But at least the major ones (not each and every console) are part of this game. Taking them out would make it a totally different game.
Taking the passive regens off the pets keeps them from being a constant problem and the person with the carrier will need to launch more, it's especially more critical on frigate pets, those can really put out some damage, it's in order to level out the field a bit.
Battlecloaks don't help in a small arena, it's too fast paced to consider them really viable tactically and in a 1v1 it doesn't make a lot of sense as you still need to take your target out. in bigger arenas, it's possible, but there should be some serious limitations if these really should be considered.
I don't have much use for these Gimmicks, true, i have always seen them as a distraction from the real purpose of combat, and one that i've never even thought about over the years. If you are going to go for a glorious death, do it against a worth opponent on equal ground.
So Battle cloak.. Tactically allow for: First strike initiative, Hit and run, Misdirection (with a certain trait..)..
Having Been on both sides of the Battle cloak..its certainly a fun piece of kit.. In a 5V5 (premade) it could be deadly advantage (if all 5 ships on one side had them and used them) ..But most PVP cues dont seem to have cloaking ships which is why its not used often..
if you want carriers and flight deck cruisers to have their pets? (the host ship) The one you control will have to have it's dps dialled back to the point it equals with the damage pets are doing so it equals out to that average dps, so cruisers with a hangar bay has less dps output than another cruiser and the extra pets bring the damage up to a level point. these pets will also have their regens disabled.
Cloaks are only used for tactical purposes, they are not a requirement for PvP which is straight out killing each other. Romulan ships always decloak to fight anyway so it makes fairly little difference especially without those special abilities like sro. in addition Romulans leave themselves open to torpedo strikes up on cloaking.
I am not advocating for innate advantages, so of course a carrier needs to have disadvantages against similar ships without pets. Why regens should be disabled I don't understand.
And in my opinion tactics would easily have a place in PvP, not just point your ships at each other and fire until somebody is dead. So yeah, especially Roms should have their battle cloaks, because not giving it to them is taking out a whole playstyle (that cloaks offer problems with players not decloaking and similar notwithstanding). And leaving themselves open to torps - well, that is part of the game you have to consider.
I have the feeling that you have a strong dislike of all the gimmicks, and I can understand that. But at least the major ones (not each and every console) are part of this game. Taking them out would make it a totally different game.
Taking the passive regens off the pets keeps them from being a constant problem and the person with the carrier will need to launch more, it's especially more critical on frigate pets, those can really put out some damage, it's in order to level out the field a bit.
Battlecloaks don't help in a small arena, it's too fast paced to consider them really viable tactically and in a 1v1 it doesn't make a lot of sense as you still need to take your target out. in bigger arenas, it's possible, but there should be some serious limitations if these really should be considered.
I don't have much use for these Gimmicks, true, i have always seen them as a distraction from the real purpose of combat, and one that i've never even thought about over the years. If you are going to go for a glorious death, do it against a worth opponent on equal ground.
So Battle cloak.. Tactically allow for: First strike initiative, Hit and run, Misdirection (with a certain trait..)..
Having Been on both sides of the Battle cloak..its certainly a fun piece of kit.. In a 5V5 (premade) it could be deadly advantage (if all 5 ships on one side had them and used them) ..But most PVP cues dont seem to have cloaking ships which is why its not used often..
Well it's all an idea about getting to basics and fighting in basics, a real deathmatch without the fancy toys everyone is so dependent on. it gives the appreciation just how valued your skills are in a tightly fought equal PvP where you don't rely on overpowering skills, traits, consoles and what not to put one over your enemies and call it a good game.
the very core of PvP is to kill each other, so keeping it simple is the purest way to finding out who can win when no one has the advantage.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I tried it after the patch just to say I tried it. Won't ever do it again, even for an Endeavor. It completed for me, BTW. It was a space battle-render your opposition's influence to 0.
I came to STO to play the game, not fight other players.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I did the Ground Arena. It was fun 4v4, no chucleheaded vapers or any such nonsense. It completed and I got the Endeavor Award. The score at the end was 15/15 for us and 2/15 for the opposing Team.
That was the first time I have ever done PVP in STO.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It's funny how easy Cryptic just made the pvp queues insanely alive with a simple event. Well played.
Take that scoffers - see you in Gre'thor.
Doesn't address the underlying issue of BALANCE. Granted in an MMO where you have freedom to build characters, you will get the hardcore people who min/max the hell out of their stats, but therein lies the problem. Some hardcores don't CARE if someone is as hardcore or not. A kill is a kill. And some people actually go out of their way to find the weakest player and obliterate them, then insult their "lack of skill" for the lulz. Its people like that as well as som inbalance that does not make PvP fun for everyone.
As soon as the Endeavor ends, the PvP queues will die down.
This is exactly why I don't PvP.
As I said in a previous post. You can get by the bad apples of the PvP community with the private challenge function.
Only if you know who to challenge. I don't pvp, so I have no idea who is who, and I'm disinclined to wade through 50 jerks to find that one sportsmanlike player.
And that's before I even BEGIN to consider the issues with balance.
You can challenge anyone one. From the guy standing at the bank to anyone on your friends list, or fleet. I'd be polite and ask before hand if they wished to. Then you can discuss any rules you want to use.
I did the Ground Arena. It was fun 4v4, no chucleheaded vapers or any such nonsense. It completed and I got the Endeavor Award. The score at the end was 15/15 for us and 2/15 for the opposing Team.
That was the first time I have ever done PVP in STO.
You probably got lucky to be in a good team if it were a pug group, it usually takes a dozen or so losses before you find your feet and the right team in random PvP and even then more losses are expected to follow before you find a good win streak.
My experience with these types of matches over various mmo's and other games is that it can be soul destroying when you are taking constant losses and wondering when your next good round will be. If you get into PvP more regularly, just keep an eye on your mood over the duration because if it starts getting at you, you should consider taking a break from it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Out of morbid curiosity I decided to queue for a PvP match. Well, there were clearly some PvP'ers (three players in oposing team all part of the same fleet) who realised that scores of PvP noobs would be playing for the Endeavour prize.
The team I was in was one-shotted to oblivion.
I'll add here that I know I absolutely suck at PvP. I knew before I took part. But those participants who were doing it for the first time?
[Team] killed@quickly: Okay.... I'm pretty sure no ship should do that much DPS.
[Team] Teammember@pointlessPvP: I just got vaporized from full health and shields in half a second
(player names obviously removed)
Yeah - that'll be the last time THEY do PvP. And also served to remind me why I don't do it.
I hate to say it, but there will be those matches that are going to be practically futile from the start, especially when you know names and which side they are on, it's not worth taking them on. Not every match will be like that but some people that mesh extremely well in PvP on one team can easily own the battlefield and it's just better to let them vape/one shot you and you doing nothing than trying to get around them which probably won't ever happen.
But this reinforces another point in a similar way i see Pve'ers using DPS calculators to get those mega dps hits and swoop through random stf's and leaving nothing for everyone else. The power creep is incredible between those casuals from those dedicated players.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yeah - that'll be the last time THEY do PvP. And also served to remind me why I don't do it.
Problem is really that we have wide range as far as gear, abilities, player’s skill and especially team interaction is concerned. It is already unbelievable in public PvE and turns every random PvP match in nothing but a lottery. Adding the lack of rewards in combination with the toxic player-base it’s not even worth a gamble.
Even if u win some you are accused of cheating or bringing OP gear you played for 40h a week and without it you would not stand a chance anyway.
Hehe, PvP in STO is just a prime example for a loose-loose situation. Don’t ever feel bad for not pursuing it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I did the Ground Arena. It was fun 4v4, no chucleheaded vapers or any such nonsense. It completed and I got the Endeavor Award. The score at the end was 15/15 for us and 2/15 for the opposing Team.
That was the first time I have ever done PVP in STO.
You probably got lucky to be in a good team if it were a pug group, it usually takes a dozen or so losses before you find your feet and the right team in random PvP and even then more losses are expected to follow before you find a good win streak.
Given a random distribution of players, you have 50/50 chance of being on the "better" team. Premades are of course another thing entirely. However, of all the pug runs I did during the endeavor I never saw a premade team, just a few obviously high-skill individuals.
Under normal circumstances, the problem is of course that only the dedicated PvPers bother with it at all so you don't get a random distribution of players.
My experience with these types of matches over various mmo's and other games is that it can be soul destroying when you are taking constant losses and wondering when your next good round will be. If you get into PvP more regularly, just keep an eye on your mood over the duration because if it starts getting at you, you should consider taking a break from it.
Meh, as far as I'm concerned, a good round is one I get a reward from. Win, lose, as long as I get what I came for is all good. The ones that frustrate me are the ones that last for ages and ages and no resolution. Especially space arena with cloak trolls.
EDIT: fixed quote tags, forum don't eat my post, please.
Out of morbid curiosity I decided to queue for a PvP match. Well, there were clearly some PvP'ers (three players in oposing team all part of the same fleet) who realised that scores of PvP noobs would be playing for the Endeavour prize.
The team I was in was one-shotted to oblivion.
I'll add here that I know I absolutely suck at PvP. I knew before I took part. But those participants who were doing it for the first time?
[Team] killed@quickly: Okay.... I'm pretty sure no ship should do that much DPS.
[Team] Teammember@pointlessPvP: I just got vaporized from full health and shields in half a second
(player names obviously removed)
Yeah - that'll be the last time THEY do PvP. And also served to remind me why I don't do it.
I hate to say it, but there will be those matches that are going to be practically futile from the start, especially when you know names and which side they are on, it's not worth taking them on. Not every match will be like that but some people that mesh extremely well in PvP on one team can easily own the battlefield and it's just better to let them vape/one shot you and you doing nothing than trying to get around them which probably won't ever happen.
But this reinforces another point in a similar way i see Pve'ers using DPS calculators to get those mega dps hits and swoop through random stf's and leaving nothing for everyone else. The power creep is incredible between those casuals from those dedicated players.
That's my point though. Those other players in the team almost definitely didn't know that they were going to be up against a team of players who could one-shot vape them; heck 'I' didn't really realise until the other four players in the team died the moment they engaged the other team (and I didn't last much longer either).
My point is, though, that this is damned shame. I'd say it's fair to assume that those other four players in the team I was in will never actually realise that "not every match will be like that" - I'm fairly confident in my assumption that those other four players will likely never touch PvP again.
I certainly wouldn't call that "fair." Are modern players really so completely spoiled by fancy-pants "matchmaking" systems that they can't imagine other players being much better than themselves?
But, some players will inevitably be happier if they never touch PvP again.
Out of morbid curiosity I decided to queue for a PvP match. Well, there were clearly some PvP'ers (three players in oposing team all part of the same fleet) who realised that scores of PvP noobs would be playing for the Endeavour prize.
The team I was in was one-shotted to oblivion.
I'll add here that I know I absolutely suck at PvP. I knew before I took part. But those participants who were doing it for the first time?
[Team] killed@quickly: Okay.... I'm pretty sure no ship should do that much DPS.
[Team] Teammember@pointlessPvP: I just got vaporized from full health and shields in half a second
(player names obviously removed)
Yeah - that'll be the last time THEY do PvP. And also served to remind me why I don't do it.
I hate to say it, but there will be those matches that are going to be practically futile from the start, especially when you know names and which side they are on, it's not worth taking them on. Not every match will be like that but some people that mesh extremely well in PvP on one team can easily own the battlefield and it's just better to let them vape/one shot you and you doing nothing than trying to get around them which probably won't ever happen.
But this reinforces another point in a similar way i see Pve'ers using DPS calculators to get those mega dps hits and swoop through random stf's and leaving nothing for everyone else. The power creep is incredible between those casuals from those dedicated players.
That's my point though. Those other players in the team almost definitely didn't know that they were going to be up against a team of players who could one-shot vape them; heck 'I' didn't really realise until the other four players in the team died the moment they engaged the other team (and I didn't last much longer either).
My point is, though, that this is damned shame. I'd say it's fair to assume that those other four players in the team I was in will never actually realise that "not every match will be like that" - I'm fairly confident in my assumption that those other four players will likely never touch PvP again.
I certainly wouldn't call that "fair." Are modern players really so completely spoiled by fancy-pants "matchmaking" systems that they can't imagine other players being much better than themselves?
But, some players will inevitably be happier if they never touch PvP again.
No. As I said, I went into that match fully aware of the fact that I'd get my backside handed to me. I, however, had the benefit of hindsight. The other players in the team didn't. They do now.
But that's what I mean. If it's someone's first time doing a competitive activity, wouldn't they expect there's a chance to encounter opponents who are much more experienced and/or better equipped than themselves? Shouldn't they expect that? Why would you assume those players couldn't realise it? Or that not every match will be like that?
I'm having a ball in SWTOR during this challenge. Also I noticed I get more coins per dollar over there than here with their online store.
5500 coins for $40 over there.
5300 coins for $50 over here.
Best of all their outfits aren't locked up in categories like they are here and I know this engine isn't the limitation given how outfits work in Champions.
Out of morbid curiosity I decided to queue for a PvP match. Well, there were clearly some PvP'ers (three players in oposing team all part of the same fleet) who realised that scores of PvP noobs would be playing for the Endeavour prize.
The team I was in was one-shotted to oblivion.
I'll add here that I know I absolutely suck at PvP. I knew before I took part. But those participants who were doing it for the first time?
[Team] killed@quickly: Okay.... I'm pretty sure no ship should do that much DPS.
[Team] Teammember@pointlessPvP: I just got vaporized from full health and shields in half a second
(player names obviously removed)
Yeah - that'll be the last time THEY do PvP. And also served to remind me why I don't do it.
I hate to say it, but there will be those matches that are going to be practically futile from the start, especially when you know names and which side they are on, it's not worth taking them on. Not every match will be like that but some people that mesh extremely well in PvP on one team can easily own the battlefield and it's just better to let them vape/one shot you and you doing nothing than trying to get around them which probably won't ever happen.
But this reinforces another point in a similar way i see Pve'ers using DPS calculators to get those mega dps hits and swoop through random stf's and leaving nothing for everyone else. The power creep is incredible between those casuals from those dedicated players.
That's my point though. Those other players in the team almost definitely didn't know that they were going to be up against a team of players who could one-shot vape them; heck 'I' didn't really realise until the other four players in the team died the moment they engaged the other team (and I didn't last much longer either).
My point is, though, that this is damned shame. I'd say it's fair to assume that those other four players in the team I was in will never actually realise that "not every match will be like that" - I'm fairly confident in my assumption that those other four players will likely never touch PvP again.
I certainly wouldn't call that "fair." Are modern players really so completely spoiled by fancy-pants "matchmaking" systems that they can't imagine other players being much better than themselves?
But, some players will inevitably be happier if they never touch PvP again.
Yes, the players are spoiled by such things. Which, these aren't a bad thing. It makes PvP more casual friendly, that's all.
The main thing that turns most STO players off a PvP, is that it is not easy. You aren't facing scripted NPC HP sacks that are easy to kill. You're facing another player. This means that you aren't facing an easy to read scripted NPC, making every match some thing new to deal with.
In PvE you can literally slap any build together and still kill the enemy. All this means is that it takes longer to do so.
PvP on the other hand requires time, effort and thought.
See the difference?
PvP is not for those that are not willing to put the effort forth to become better. Where as in PvE, anyone can be good, with any build.
Also, for those that say the PvP community is toxic. Here is something that was pointed out in a different thread.
PvE players blame the PvP players for any, and generally all, balancing that is done in STO. Unfortunately, this is toxic behavior. Why? Because the PvP community is STO is a minority. Their voice is seldom heard, it's mostly ignored. The majority of all balancing comes from the larger PvE community. I've never heard a PvP player blame the PvE players for any of the balancing. Most of them actually look forward to any changes that are made, it gives the potential to make new viable builds. Add to this that any and all balancing that is done in game, is not done at the players request. It is up to the DEVELOPERS at Cryptic to make the decision to make any changes. IT is THEIR game after all. All we the players, PvE and PvP alike, can do is point out things for them to look at.
Now as I, and others, have stated. Are there toxic players in PvP? Yes. But as the PvP community is small, it is easier to run in to them. It's easier to see the bad in a small group versus a large group after all.
This is what I was thinking as well when I went into a PvP yesterday. I knew full well that I wouldn't do very much, though I really tried. Like reyan, I suck at PvP and I don't have a good PvP build. But I did hold my own some. I think there were only a couple vet PvPers in there who kept vaping me.
Still. I only did it for the Endeavor and to say I tried. Never again.
As I said in a previous post, I came here to play STO, not other players. Besides, if I have to have a build that vaporizes things in one shot, no thanks.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
This is what I was thinking as well when I went into a PvP yesterday. I knew full well that I wouldn't do very much, though I really tried. Like reyan, I suck at PvP and I don't have a good PvP build. But I did hold my own some. I think there were only a couple vet PvPers in there who kept vaping me.
Still. I only did it for the Endeavor and to say I tried. Never again.
As I said in a previous post, I came here to play STO, not other players. Besides, if I have to have a build that vaporizes things in one shot, no thanks.
I know for a fact (comments made both here and in-game) that you are not alone there.
I do agree with what others have said about PvP and the PvP veterans - but irrespective of that the fact is that those Veterans have, willingly or not, made very sure that a good number of players who tried PvP for the first time (during the Endeavour) will never look at it again.
I know I will never look at it again. I try to follow a policy of 'Try it at least once before I say I don't like it' Only thing that I won't try is raw fish/shellfish.
So I tried it once. Never again. Gonna just do what I got the game for, play it and let the others battle each other if that's what blows their dress up
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
This is what I was thinking as well when I went into a PvP yesterday. I knew full well that I wouldn't do very much, though I really tried. Like reyan, I suck at PvP and I don't have a good PvP build. But I did hold my own some. I think there were only a couple vet PvPers in there who kept vaping me.
Still. I only did it for the Endeavor and to say I tried. Never again.
As I said in a previous post, I came here to play STO, not other players. Besides, if I have to have a build that vaporizes things in one shot, no thanks.
PvP Vape ships aren't that great in PVE traditionally, unless you know how to build a good skill tree that will support both methods of play (someone like SOB).
So you probably out DPS those PvP spike dmg ships in a PvE setting.
But I get your gist.
I just skipped it altogether. Used to really enjoy pvp. But meh, I didn't think it was worth the time. Just did Melting Pot again for week 3 rewards and upgraded a few things.
Not like missing the endeavor reward is the end of the world. *shrug*
Just my opinion here, but I'd rather see these endeavors focus more on the dead pve queues.
This way we can get people playing those seldom run PvE missions. We've only gotten a handful that asked you to play a specific PvE queue.
They should drop the endeavors that ask for things like 25000 dmg (insert energy type) and replace them with pve missions.
imo
Well, Taylor, I did want to try it once just to see what it was like. Didn't like it.
Like you, I'm playing Melting Pot for the ship set, especially for some lower-ranked characters, which I'm also leveling.
I have much more fun just playing the game, crafting, DSEs/RAs than I would have in PvP. Do I wish PvP would go away? No. Let it hang around for those who want it. Just not for me.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Comments
As far as dps, shield and hull hp, those are normalised based on ship type, escort, cruiser and science ship (the latter just a dps boost to remain competitive with escort and cruiser). Escorts have less hp on purpose but more dps, cruisers have the most hull but average shield hp and they lack a little dps, science ships have the strongest shields, average hull and average dps. Also turn, impulse and ineria has been more bunched together so escorts can't just out run everything and carriers are more competitive. No one ship has an overall advantage.
It doesn't matter who has what, everyone has exactly the same and if the bolster is perfectly balanced, there can't be any power creep or bias and to make sure all passive regens are disable no matter the alert condition in the arena.
a true deathmatch.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
As I said in a previous post. You can get by the bad apples of the PvP community with the private challenge function.
Yap, but in this version also a match that takes loads of builds and strategies away, regardless of what you like to fly. No pets? But if I like dreadnaughts I lose. No cloaks? Do roms even need to apply? Science ships only get a DPS boost - but why would I fly Sci if I cannot Sci with it?
Granted, a setup like this could be fun, but wouldn't really be STO.
if you want carriers and flight deck cruisers to have their pets? (the host ship) The one you control will have to have it's dps dialled back to the point it equals with the damage pets are doing so it equals out to that average dps, so cruisers with a hangar bay has less dps output than another cruiser and the extra pets bring the damage up to a level point. these pets will also have their regens disabled.
Cloaks are only used for tactical purposes, they are not a requirement for PvP which is straight out killing each other. Romulan ships always decloak to fight anyway so it makes fairly little difference especially without those special abilities like sro. in addition Romulans leave themselves open to torpedo strikes up on cloaking.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I am not advocating for innate advantages, so of course a carrier needs to have disadvantages against similar ships without pets. Why regens should be disabled I don't understand.
And in my opinion tactics would easily have a place in PvP, not just point your ships at each other and fire until somebody is dead. So yeah, especially Roms should have their battle cloaks, because not giving it to them is taking out a whole playstyle (that cloaks offer problems with players not decloaking and similar notwithstanding). And leaving themselves open to torps - well, that is part of the game you have to consider.
I have the feeling that you have a strong dislike of all the gimmicks, and I can understand that. But at least the major ones (not each and every console) are part of this game. Taking them out would make it a totally different game.
Taking the passive regens off the pets keeps them from being a constant problem and the person with the carrier will need to launch more, it's especially more critical on frigate pets, those can really put out some damage, it's in order to level out the field a bit.
Battlecloaks don't help in a small arena, it's too fast paced to consider them really viable tactically and in a 1v1 it doesn't make a lot of sense as you still need to take your target out. in bigger arenas, it's possible, but there should be some serious limitations if these really should be considered.
I don't have much use for these Gimmicks, true, i have always seen them as a distraction from the real purpose of combat, and one that i've never even thought about over the years. If you are going to go for a glorious death, do it against a worth opponent on equal ground.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
So Battle cloak.. Tactically allow for: First strike initiative, Hit and run, Misdirection (with a certain trait..)..
Having Been on both sides of the Battle cloak..its certainly a fun piece of kit.. In a 5V5 (premade) it could be deadly advantage (if all 5 ships on one side had them and used them) ..But most PVP cues dont seem to have cloaking ships which is why its not used often..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Well it's all an idea about getting to basics and fighting in basics, a real deathmatch without the fancy toys everyone is so dependent on. it gives the appreciation just how valued your skills are in a tightly fought equal PvP where you don't rely on overpowering skills, traits, consoles and what not to put one over your enemies and call it a good game.
the very core of PvP is to kill each other, so keeping it simple is the purest way to finding out who can win when no one has the advantage.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
In this game, some trait, doff/boff, skill and item combinations are just (far) better than others for pvp (check reddit builds for ideas).
I've accepted the notion that pvp will only be an end-game thing for a few players.
The endeavor merely gave a taste. Some will persist, and some will remain scrubs.
I came to STO to play the game, not fight other players.
That was the first time I have ever done PVP in STO.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You can challenge anyone one. From the guy standing at the bank to anyone on your friends list, or fleet. I'd be polite and ask before hand if they wished to. Then you can discuss any rules you want to use.
You probably got lucky to be in a good team if it were a pug group, it usually takes a dozen or so losses before you find your feet and the right team in random PvP and even then more losses are expected to follow before you find a good win streak.
My experience with these types of matches over various mmo's and other games is that it can be soul destroying when you are taking constant losses and wondering when your next good round will be. If you get into PvP more regularly, just keep an eye on your mood over the duration because if it starts getting at you, you should consider taking a break from it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I hate to say it, but there will be those matches that are going to be practically futile from the start, especially when you know names and which side they are on, it's not worth taking them on. Not every match will be like that but some people that mesh extremely well in PvP on one team can easily own the battlefield and it's just better to let them vape/one shot you and you doing nothing than trying to get around them which probably won't ever happen.
But this reinforces another point in a similar way i see Pve'ers using DPS calculators to get those mega dps hits and swoop through random stf's and leaving nothing for everyone else. The power creep is incredible between those casuals from those dedicated players.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Problem is really that we have wide range as far as gear, abilities, player’s skill and especially team interaction is concerned. It is already unbelievable in public PvE and turns every random PvP match in nothing but a lottery. Adding the lack of rewards in combination with the toxic player-base it’s not even worth a gamble.
Even if u win some you are accused of cheating or bringing OP gear you played for 40h a week and without it you would not stand a chance anyway.
Hehe, PvP in STO is just a prime example for a loose-loose situation. Don’t ever feel bad for not pursuing it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Under normal circumstances, the problem is of course that only the dedicated PvPers bother with it at all so you don't get a random distribution of players.
Meh, as far as I'm concerned, a good round is one I get a reward from. Win, lose, as long as I get what I came for is all good. The ones that frustrate me are the ones that last for ages and ages and no resolution. Especially space arena with cloak trolls.
EDIT: fixed quote tags, forum don't eat my post, please.
But, some players will inevitably be happier if they never touch PvP again.
5500 coins for $40 over there.
5300 coins for $50 over here.
Best of all their outfits aren't locked up in categories like they are here and I know this engine isn't the limitation given how outfits work in Champions.
Yes, the players are spoiled by such things. Which, these aren't a bad thing. It makes PvP more casual friendly, that's all.
The main thing that turns most STO players off a PvP, is that it is not easy. You aren't facing scripted NPC HP sacks that are easy to kill. You're facing another player. This means that you aren't facing an easy to read scripted NPC, making every match some thing new to deal with.
In PvE you can literally slap any build together and still kill the enemy. All this means is that it takes longer to do so.
PvP on the other hand requires time, effort and thought.
See the difference?
PvP is not for those that are not willing to put the effort forth to become better. Where as in PvE, anyone can be good, with any build.
Also, for those that say the PvP community is toxic. Here is something that was pointed out in a different thread.
PvE players blame the PvP players for any, and generally all, balancing that is done in STO. Unfortunately, this is toxic behavior. Why? Because the PvP community is STO is a minority. Their voice is seldom heard, it's mostly ignored. The majority of all balancing comes from the larger PvE community. I've never heard a PvP player blame the PvE players for any of the balancing. Most of them actually look forward to any changes that are made, it gives the potential to make new viable builds. Add to this that any and all balancing that is done in game, is not done at the players request. It is up to the DEVELOPERS at Cryptic to make the decision to make any changes. IT is THEIR game after all. All we the players, PvE and PvP alike, can do is point out things for them to look at.
Now as I, and others, have stated. Are there toxic players in PvP? Yes. But as the PvP community is small, it is easier to run in to them. It's easier to see the bad in a small group versus a large group after all.
Still. I only did it for the Endeavor and to say I tried. Never again.
As I said in a previous post, I came here to play STO, not other players. Besides, if I have to have a build that vaporizes things in one shot, no thanks.
I know I will never look at it again. I try to follow a policy of 'Try it at least once before I say I don't like it' Only thing that I won't try is raw fish/shellfish.
So I tried it once. Never again. Gonna just do what I got the game for, play it and let the others battle each other if that's what blows their dress up
PvP Vape ships aren't that great in PVE traditionally, unless you know how to build a good skill tree that will support both methods of play (someone like SOB).
So you probably out DPS those PvP spike dmg ships in a PvE setting.
But I get your gist.
I just skipped it altogether. Used to really enjoy pvp. But meh, I didn't think it was worth the time. Just did Melting Pot again for week 3 rewards and upgraded a few things.
Not like missing the endeavor reward is the end of the world. *shrug*
Just my opinion here, but I'd rather see these endeavors focus more on the dead pve queues.
This way we can get people playing those seldom run PvE missions. We've only gotten a handful that asked you to play a specific PvE queue.
They should drop the endeavors that ask for things like 25000 dmg (insert energy type) and replace them with pve missions.
imo
Like you, I'm playing Melting Pot for the ship set, especially for some lower-ranked characters, which I'm also leveling.
I have much more fun just playing the game, crafting, DSEs/RAs than I would have in PvP. Do I wish PvP would go away? No. Let it hang around for those who want it. Just not for me.