I would rather of seen Axanar, that felt 'Trek' ... Discovery didn't.
I'll second that sentiment.
Star Trek Axanar definitely had the look and feel of Pre-TOS. Discovery looks like it takes place 100-years in the future from Voyager and in the Kelvin timeline to boot.
Just compare the Ares to the Discovery.
Ares clearly looks pre-TOS.
I am going to skip my STO playing time tonight to re-watch Star Trek Discovery, again. I will watch it as recorded on my DVR then go to CBS All Access and compare it to the commercial free version.
Because with as many holes there was in the story on commercial TV....I am wondering how much of it ended up on the cutting room floor.
Edit: Plus I want to freeze frame on that Torchbearer Armor. LOL!
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I don't think you paid very much attention to the dialogue at all. Sarek specifically told her that Vulcans would fire on any Klingon ship they came into contact with because the Vulcans learned Klingons respect strength - just like Minbari ships having weapons at the ready on first contact as a sign of strength but also respect for not using them. Firing on them is a show of strength and respect. Had she been able to fire, the whole battle would more than likely have never taken place.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back the heck up.
Throw canon out the window here for a moment.
So, you have a species that only respects you... if you hurl sufficient ordnance at them to destroy or disable their ship? Is this what is actually presented as a plot point?
That. Is. STUPID. It was stupid when I encountered the Thraddash. It's stupid 20 years later.
So, to bring canon back in for a moment. I am to assume that if you open fire on a Klingon... they won't shoot back? They'll be all cool with it and invite you over for brews or something? I can see why @patrickngo might be a little miffed at some of the changes to Klingon philosophy.
Anyways, maybe it's just poor writing in the pilot. Maybe it gets better.
@redvenge: As I said, I find it a logical next step that a culture that prioritizes interpersonal violence and glory in battle would think less of a culture more inclined to peace. That contrast is at the heart of Federation-Klingon relations from TNG on, ergo I do find it credible that the Federation would have had to prove itself a worthy opponent before the cold war detente of TOS was possible.
(Hell, by STO, there are Klingons convinced that the Federation is the one enemy the Klingon Empire can never defeat.)
Also, according to producer statements the Klingon Great House depicted in the pilot are extremists even by Klingon standards. I'm willing to give the concept the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
@redvenge: As I said, I find it a logical next step that a culture that prioritizes interpersonal violence and glory in battle would think less of a culture more inclined to peace. That contrast is at the heart of Federation-Klingon relations from TNG on, ergo I do find it credible that the Federation would have had to prove itself a worthy opponent before the cold war detente of TOS was possible.
(Hell, by STO, there are Klingons convinced that the Federation is the one enemy the Klingon Empire can never defeat.)
Also, according to producer statements the Klingon Great House depicted in the pilot are extremists even by Klingon standards. I'm willing to give the concept the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
What part of the concept are you giving the benefit of the doubt? The only way to deal with Klingons is to shoot them?
That's... STUPID.
That shows a painfully shallow depth to any culture, not just Klingons. How does any communication occur at all? Why would such a culture ever communicate with another? Why would it bother with universal translators or the like? Klingons would just shoot or be shot. It does not matter how canon this is. This concept is dumb.
The whole Vulcan Hello strategy was flawed from the start, Sarek openly acknowledged that and warned Burnham not to let her emotions cloud her judgement. Sarek's description indicated that it took several skirmishes before the Klingons finally were willing to talk, it only gained results after the Vulcans demonstrated that they couldn't be steamrolled over by KDF firepower or numbers. Sarek was pretty clear that he believed that this wouldn't work out the same for the Shenzou's current predicament. Burnham however heard what she wanted to hear, that violence was the answer.
Burnham's behavior was clearly not fueled by logic, but rather was based on fear. Everyone who heard her ideas called her out on her behavior only for her to respond by trying to play the "I'm smarter than you." card. Her attacking her CO was just the crowning moment of her irrational behavior, after that incident there should be no way Starfleet would ever let her near a command position again.
However we need to acknowledge that since she is the "strong lead" character archetype her listening to her superiors and backing down was never in the cards. It was pretty much inevitable that her character would at some point resort to breaking the rules to get her way. Hollywood eats this kind of thing up, they love the rebel against authority trope.
As for the question of how Burnham rose to her rank despite her character flaws... Nepotism is the true currency of the Federation after all. Sarek has always been treated as a pretty big player in Federation politics, so having him as your patron is definitely going to grant you some privilege.
Strap yourselves in, because it also involves T'Kuvma's entire "'We come in peace' is a lie" spiel.
The humans, specifically Archer, had a habit of meddling in Klingon affairs, ostensibly for the greater good at the time, but still... they're meddlesome.
One of the outgrowths of Starfleet meddling was Arik Soong's reactivation of the Augment program, which led the Klingons to experiment with it themselves, leading to the Augment virus that threatened the entire Klingon race, but was halted by Phlox at the expense of the Klingon head ridges. This could have been extrapolated out as the humans trying to destroy the Klingon way of life by removing that which readily identified them as Klingon, instead making them look more human. To a warrior race steeped in tradition and honor, this would be a major blow at the very heart of the Klingon Empire. This explains the "Remain Klingon" statement used by T'Kuvma to rally the Great Houses together.
Now, this part is pure speculation, but I'm willing to bet that in the intervening century between Enterprise and Discovery, the Klingons fractured because of disagreements on what to do, and while they were debating, they engaged on a eugenics program of their own to try and separate the Augment DNA from their own DNA by hyperstimulating traditional Klingon DNA, which would explain why they all look more like genetic throwbacks than the Klingons we all know.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
@redvenge: As I said, I find it a logical next step that a culture that prioritizes interpersonal violence and glory in battle would think less of a culture more inclined to peace. That contrast is at the heart of Federation-Klingon relations from TNG on, ergo I do find it credible that the Federation would have had to prove itself a worthy opponent before the cold war detente of TOS was possible.
(Hell, by STO, there are Klingons convinced that the Federation is the one enemy the Klingon Empire can never defeat.)
Also, according to producer statements the Klingon Great House depicted in the pilot are extremists even by Klingon standards. I'm willing to give the concept the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
What part of the concept are you giving the benefit of the doubt? The only way to deal with Klingons is to shoot them?
That's... STUPID.
That shows a painfully shallow depth to any culture, not just Klingons. How does any communication occur at all? Why would such a culture ever communicate with another? Why would it bother with universal translators or the like? Klingons would just shoot or be shot. It does not matter how canon this is. This concept is dumb.
I'm saying that Klingons have a tendency not to respect people who won't stand up to them to their faces. Even Picard, the pillar of the Federation's ideal, recognized that: When a Klingon named Vagh called him a liar to his face, Picard promptly cussed him out in tlhIngan Hol. Vagh was considerably more polite afterwards. And this after the Klingons have been nominally allies of the Federation for a good six decades. ETA: Or look at Quark at the climax of "The House of Quark": he faces down D'Ghor on the Council, then throws down his sword and dares him to go ahead and kill him. Doesn't win D'Ghor's respect, but it damn sure wins the respect of every other Klingon present: D'Ghor ends up discommendated.
Now, let's look at the situation dispassionately. The House of T'Kuvma came out blatantly trying to pick a fight, by their own admission. They cross into Federation territory, shoot up Federation property, and then attack a Starfleet officer without provocation who was just out there trying to figure out what the frell happened to their subspace relay. It'd be like if Russia sent the Pyotr Velikiy into Alaskan waters and started firing at random buildings on-shore: an act of war, plain and simple. Frankly, Burnham and Georgiou both missed that the war had already started and that the Klingons had already shot first.
Now, you can bring up the counterargument that T'Kuvma's ship outgunned the Shenzhou, but the point is Burnham was right: the situation wasn't going to be resolved without bloodshed from the second T'Kuvma left port. If the Shenzhou gets off the first shot, maybe they manage to hit something critical and at least damage the ship enough they can get away, if not mission-kill it.
But mutiny was indeed a step too far; I'm not excusing that.
Post edited by starswordc on
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Sarek is not saying the Klingons will not fire back, he's saying they will respect them more in future negotiations.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I saw the preview for upcoming episodes at the end of Part 2 of the first Pilot....
I don't think USS Discovery is going to be a "regular" Starfleet ship.
My GUESS it is similar to: Qib or (I guess I should use a FED name) Eclipse?
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
One of the outgrowths of Starfleet meddling was Arik Soong's reactivation of the Augment program, which led the Klingons to experiment with it themselves, leading to the Augment virus that threatened the entire Klingon race, but was halted by Phlox at the expense of the Klingon head ridges. This could have been extrapolated out as the humans trying to destroy the Klingon way of life by removing that which readily identified them as Klingon, instead making them look more human. To a warrior race steeped in tradition and honor, this would be a major blow at the very heart of the Klingon Empire. This explains the "Remain Klingon" statement used by T'Kuvma to rally the Great Houses together.
But remember. 10 years after Discovery, Klingons are supposed to look like this:
Discovery is a reboot. Established lore does not apply. They could give these Klingons a tail and two heads if they wanted to.
With the incident on the Shenzhou aside, it will be interesting to see how Burnham goes from a convicted criminal to a Starfleet officer again and what Captain Lorca is like. I wonder what the dynamic is like between Burnham and Lorca after a few episodes? Between Georgiou and Burnham, both of them are strong women with their own values that clash from time to time.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
With the incident on the Shenzhou aside, it will be interesting to see how Burnham goes from a convicted criminal to a Starfleet officer again and what Captain Lorca is like. I wonder what the dynamic is like between Burnham and Lorca after a few episodes? Between Georgiou and Burnham, both of them are strong women with their own values that clash from time to time.
Seeing Michelle Yeoh's great performance as Captain Georgiou I wish her character had survived. Even if Commander Burnham is going to end up on the Disovery it would have allowed for Georgiou to return as Captain of another vessel in future episodes. And she could have been the secret force behind Burnham's rehabilitation and rejoining Starfleet. Frankly I don't see how they are gonna make her an officer aboard the Discovery after what she did.
I'm curious about Captain Lorca as well. Hopefully, he will be a worthy "successor" to Captain Georgiou.
@redvenge: As I said, I find it a logical next step that a culture that prioritizes interpersonal violence and glory in battle would think less of a culture more inclined to peace. That contrast is at the heart of Federation-Klingon relations from TNG on, ergo I do find it credible that the Federation would have had to prove itself a worthy opponent before the cold war detente of TOS was possible.
(Hell, by STO, there are Klingons convinced that the Federation is the one enemy the Klingon Empire can never defeat.)
Also, according to producer statements the Klingon Great House depicted in the pilot are extremists even by Klingon standards. I'm willing to give the concept the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
that or maybe they're looking to expand their holdings by annexing part of Fed space?
But remember. 10 years after Discovery, Klingons are supposed to look like this:
Well, you missed the point entirely.
Let me reiterate for you.
I'm not ignoring the TOS era look for Klingons. In fact, that looks is probably the driving force behind T'Kuvma's campaign. He sees the spreading of the Augment affected Klingons as a way to destroy the Empire by destroying their identity as a race. If he knew what they were, he'd argue that it's not much different than what the Borg do. They take people into their collective, absorb all that they are, keep the good stuff, and discard the rest.
As to your point above, you missed the part where the Great Houses have been at war for some time. My point is that it was likely over the fate of the Empire and the new Klingons. The nobles of the Great Houses sought to protect their own lineages by engaging in the gene therapies I mentioned while the commoners were left to rot.
Discovery is a reboot. Established lore does not apply. They could give these Klingons a tail and two heads if they wanted to.
Who says it's a reboot? Outside of fan whinging, I've never seen any evidence of the show being a reboot at all.
Please, show me some official documentation from CBS that says it's a reboot.
I'll wait.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Who says it's a reboot? Outside of fan whinging, I've never seen any evidence of the show being a reboot at all.
Please, show me some official documentation from CBS that says it's a reboot.
I'll wait.
These days, calling a new series "reboot" has a negative connotation to it. So you won't find an official CBS statement calling it that. But you can be certain, papers like the Independent wouldn't call Discovery an all-new reboot several times in their articles (Link) if that term didn't come from one of the people who were interviewed.
Who says it's a reboot? Outside of fan whinging, I've never seen any evidence of the show being a reboot at all.
Please, show me some official documentation from CBS that says it's a reboot.
I'll wait.
These days, calling a new series "reboot" has a negative connotation to it. So you won't find an official CBS statement calling it that. But you can be certain, papers like the Independent wouldn't call Discovery an all-new reboot several times in their articles (Link) if that term didn't come from one of the people who were interviewed.
So you can't find an official statement that calls it a reboot. Got it.
Let me break it down for you:
A reboot of a show involves using the same base characters and starting over from scratch.
The recent Battlestar Galactica is a reboot of the original show.
The Kelvin Timeline is a reboot of the Prime Universe.
This is not a reboot.
Calling DSC a reboot of Star Trek would be like saying Rogue One is a reboot of A New Hope.
It isn't.
The media idiots calling it a reboot are simply demonstrating a lack of understanding of what the word means. Don't fall into that trap. You're better than that.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Who says it's a reboot? Outside of fan whinging, I've never seen any evidence of the show being a reboot at all.
Please, show me some official documentation from CBS that says it's a reboot.
I'll wait.
These days, calling a new series "reboot" has a negative connotation to it. So you won't find an official CBS statement calling it that. But you can be certain, papers like the Independent wouldn't call Discovery an all-new reboot several times in their articles (Link) if that term didn't come from one of the people who were interviewed.
So you can't find an official statement that calls it a reboot. Got it.
Let me break it down for you:
A reboot of a show involves using the same base characters and starting over from scratch.
The recent Battlestar Galactica is a reboot of the original show.
The Kelvin Timeline is a reboot of the Prime Universe.
This is not a reboot.
Calling DSC a reboot of Star Trek would be like saying Rogue One is a reboot of A New Hope.
It isn't.
The media idiots calling it a reboot are simply demonstrating a lack of understanding of what the word means. Don't fall into that trap. You're better than that.
It IS a reboot. If something looks like a reboot, feels like a reboot and sounds like a reboot, it's a reboot. I don't need an offical statement confirming that.
And speaking of the true meaning of "reboot", here's what it actually means:
"To start something again or do something again, in a way that is new and interesting"
"Something", like in movie, series or entire franchise. And Discovery would fall in the latter category. You can restart a franchise without telling the same stories and using the same characters again.
If they made a new Star Wars movie with completely different characters, in which wookies loked like turtles stardestroyers were turned into solid-propellant rockets and laser swords were replaced by magic wands would you still refuse to call it a reboot of the franchise?
Comments
Yep, I'm all for Team Axanar. |^_^\
Because with as many holes there was in the story on commercial TV....I am wondering how much of it ended up on the cutting room floor.
Edit: Plus I want to freeze frame on that Torchbearer Armor. LOL!
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
— NPR's Eric Deggans liked it. http://www.npr.org/2017/09/25/553532524/cbs-star-trek-discovery-goes-boldly-where-no-trek-show-has-gone-before
— The Guardian's Sam Thielman, not so much. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/sep/25/star-trek-discovery-review-a-darker-vision-boldly-goes-into-the-future
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Throw canon out the window here for a moment.
So, you have a species that only respects you... if you hurl sufficient ordnance at them to destroy or disable their ship? Is this what is actually presented as a plot point?
That. Is. STUPID. It was stupid when I encountered the Thraddash. It's stupid 20 years later.
So, to bring canon back in for a moment. I am to assume that if you open fire on a Klingon... they won't shoot back? They'll be all cool with it and invite you over for brews or something? I can see why @patrickngo might be a little miffed at some of the changes to Klingon philosophy.
Anyways, maybe it's just poor writing in the pilot. Maybe it gets better.
(Hell, by STO, there are Klingons convinced that the Federation is the one enemy the Klingon Empire can never defeat.)
Also, according to producer statements the Klingon Great House depicted in the pilot are extremists even by Klingon standards. I'm willing to give the concept the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That's... STUPID.
That shows a painfully shallow depth to any culture, not just Klingons. How does any communication occur at all? Why would such a culture ever communicate with another? Why would it bother with universal translators or the like? Klingons would just shoot or be shot. It does not matter how canon this is. This concept is dumb.
Burnham's behavior was clearly not fueled by logic, but rather was based on fear. Everyone who heard her ideas called her out on her behavior only for her to respond by trying to play the "I'm smarter than you." card. Her attacking her CO was just the crowning moment of her irrational behavior, after that incident there should be no way Starfleet would ever let her near a command position again.
However we need to acknowledge that since she is the "strong lead" character archetype her listening to her superiors and backing down was never in the cards. It was pretty much inevitable that her character would at some point resort to breaking the rules to get her way. Hollywood eats this kind of thing up, they love the rebel against authority trope.
As for the question of how Burnham rose to her rank despite her character flaws... Nepotism is the true currency of the Federation after all. Sarek has always been treated as a pretty big player in Federation politics, so having him as your patron is definitely going to grant you some privilege.
Strap yourselves in, because it also involves T'Kuvma's entire "'We come in peace' is a lie" spiel.
The humans, specifically Archer, had a habit of meddling in Klingon affairs, ostensibly for the greater good at the time, but still... they're meddlesome.
One of the outgrowths of Starfleet meddling was Arik Soong's reactivation of the Augment program, which led the Klingons to experiment with it themselves, leading to the Augment virus that threatened the entire Klingon race, but was halted by Phlox at the expense of the Klingon head ridges. This could have been extrapolated out as the humans trying to destroy the Klingon way of life by removing that which readily identified them as Klingon, instead making them look more human. To a warrior race steeped in tradition and honor, this would be a major blow at the very heart of the Klingon Empire. This explains the "Remain Klingon" statement used by T'Kuvma to rally the Great Houses together.
Now, this part is pure speculation, but I'm willing to bet that in the intervening century between Enterprise and Discovery, the Klingons fractured because of disagreements on what to do, and while they were debating, they engaged on a eugenics program of their own to try and separate the Augment DNA from their own DNA by hyperstimulating traditional Klingon DNA, which would explain why they all look more like genetic throwbacks than the Klingons we all know.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
I am gonna have to say my vote stays right in the middle rung.
Story sure is going slow. And how did they manage to make space battles look so boring?
Or am I just used to everything going so fast on STO??? Too funny!! LOL!
+++++
Watching "After Trek"...a talk show about Star Trek Discovery.
They got the EP on... 15 shows all together in season 1.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm saying that Klingons have a tendency not to respect people who won't stand up to them to their faces. Even Picard, the pillar of the Federation's ideal, recognized that: When a Klingon named Vagh called him a liar to his face, Picard promptly cussed him out in tlhIngan Hol. Vagh was considerably more polite afterwards. And this after the Klingons have been nominally allies of the Federation for a good six decades. ETA: Or look at Quark at the climax of "The House of Quark": he faces down D'Ghor on the Council, then throws down his sword and dares him to go ahead and kill him. Doesn't win D'Ghor's respect, but it damn sure wins the respect of every other Klingon present: D'Ghor ends up discommendated.
Now, let's look at the situation dispassionately. The House of T'Kuvma came out blatantly trying to pick a fight, by their own admission. They cross into Federation territory, shoot up Federation property, and then attack a Starfleet officer without provocation who was just out there trying to figure out what the frell happened to their subspace relay. It'd be like if Russia sent the Pyotr Velikiy into Alaskan waters and started firing at random buildings on-shore: an act of war, plain and simple. Frankly, Burnham and Georgiou both missed that the war had already started and that the Klingons had already shot first.
Now, you can bring up the counterargument that T'Kuvma's ship outgunned the Shenzhou, but the point is Burnham was right: the situation wasn't going to be resolved without bloodshed from the second T'Kuvma left port. If the Shenzhou gets off the first shot, maybe they manage to hit something critical and at least damage the ship enough they can get away, if not mission-kill it.
But mutiny was indeed a step too far; I'm not excusing that.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I saw the preview for upcoming episodes at the end of Part 2 of the first Pilot....
I don't think USS Discovery is going to be a "regular" Starfleet ship.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
But remember. 10 years after Discovery, Klingons are supposed to look like this:
Discovery is a reboot. Established lore does not apply. They could give these Klingons a tail and two heads if they wanted to.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Seeing Michelle Yeoh's great performance as Captain Georgiou I wish her character had survived. Even if Commander Burnham is going to end up on the Disovery it would have allowed for Georgiou to return as Captain of another vessel in future episodes. And she could have been the secret force behind Burnham's rehabilitation and rejoining Starfleet. Frankly I don't see how they are gonna make her an officer aboard the Discovery after what she did.
I'm curious about Captain Lorca as well. Hopefully, he will be a worthy "successor" to Captain Georgiou.
My character Tsin'xing
Well, you missed the point entirely.
Let me reiterate for you.
I'm not ignoring the TOS era look for Klingons. In fact, that looks is probably the driving force behind T'Kuvma's campaign. He sees the spreading of the Augment affected Klingons as a way to destroy the Empire by destroying their identity as a race. If he knew what they were, he'd argue that it's not much different than what the Borg do. They take people into their collective, absorb all that they are, keep the good stuff, and discard the rest.
As to your point above, you missed the part where the Great Houses have been at war for some time. My point is that it was likely over the fate of the Empire and the new Klingons. The nobles of the Great Houses sought to protect their own lineages by engaging in the gene therapies I mentioned while the commoners were left to rot.
Who says it's a reboot? Outside of fan whinging, I've never seen any evidence of the show being a reboot at all.
Please, show me some official documentation from CBS that says it's a reboot.
I'll wait.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
These days, calling a new series "reboot" has a negative connotation to it. So you won't find an official CBS statement calling it that. But you can be certain, papers like the Independent wouldn't call Discovery an all-new reboot several times in their articles (Link) if that term didn't come from one of the people who were interviewed.
So you can't find an official statement that calls it a reboot. Got it.
Let me break it down for you:
A reboot of a show involves using the same base characters and starting over from scratch.
The recent Battlestar Galactica is a reboot of the original show.
The Kelvin Timeline is a reboot of the Prime Universe.
This is not a reboot.
Calling DSC a reboot of Star Trek would be like saying Rogue One is a reboot of A New Hope.
It isn't.
The media idiots calling it a reboot are simply demonstrating a lack of understanding of what the word means. Don't fall into that trap. You're better than that.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
It IS a reboot. If something looks like a reboot, feels like a reboot and sounds like a reboot, it's a reboot. I don't need an offical statement confirming that.
And speaking of the true meaning of "reboot", here's what it actually means:
"To start something again or do something again, in a way that is new and interesting"
"Something", like in movie, series or entire franchise. And Discovery would fall in the latter category. You can restart a franchise without telling the same stories and using the same characters again.
If they made a new Star Wars movie with completely different characters, in which wookies loked like turtles stardestroyers were turned into solid-propellant rockets and laser swords were replaced by magic wands would you still refuse to call it a reboot of the franchise?
Yep. And thankies. ~curtsy~
I mean yes I made the pictures, no I did not make the model, it's on site called sharecg.