OP if you are going to make a poll, please make poll options that make some sense.
Watched the first two episodes and enjoyed them both. This certainly isn't the Star Trek I grew up with, yet there is enough Trek for me to keep watching. Overall I'm pleased with what we have so far. I'm interested to see where they are going with Burnam and supporting characters.
Things I liked:
Sonequa Martin-Green. She's got talent. No doubt in my mind she can carry the series.
Michelle Yeoh. Loved her in the role of Captain Georgiou.
Interesting story so far! Very curious about the choices they have Burnham making. You can tell there will be consequences, which I find to be a very good thing. Good riddance to the magic "reset button" of previous Trek series.
The dialogue and banter between the crew is great.
Lt. Saru. Lots of interesting potential.
With exception of the uniforms, the visual updates. I can empathize with the overly purist zealots out there who want to see exact replicas of TOS, but Trek has to move forward. I enjoy the updated look.
I liked the variation in Klingon ship designs. (Hint hint Cryptic... more KDF ships please!)
CGI work was beautifully done. Definitely a huge improvement over the often re-used stock shots from prior series/films.
Things I did not like:
Way too many lens flares. Come on CBS.
I think the intro graphics are ok, but would prefer something more "stellar" and space-oriented.
Might just be be, but these first two episodes seem more like a prologue and episode 3 will be the real "pilot".
• Holographic communication. I don't see this as necessary and more goofy than "high tech". DS9 toyed with it for what, 1 episode?
• Killing off Captain Georgiou. Was kind of hoping she would have a recurring role in the series. Major disappointment for me.
Overall I enjoyed it and will continue to watch. However, I still won't be paying for an All Access sub. I'll stick with the free account and wait a day to watch it.
DS9 Holograms were kinda different, in that they were the "perfect" kind of holodeck holograms. But yes, they abandoned that. We kinda know they will abandon this again, too.
I really liked Michelle Yeoh's Captain. But I kinda hope that Isaacs Captain will be equally but differently awesome. But only because I really enjoy Isaacs work so far.
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From what I understand they got the idea that Klingons collect and embalm their dead from Star Trek 4. Spock identifies a Klingon mummification glyph
Also in a Ds9 episode Worf explains a Klingon tradition of them watching over a fallen warrior as he is brought back home.
Klingons from that era consider the dead to be an empty shell after warding off predators looking to steal a Klingon soul that is trying to make it to sto'vo'kor. Once the body has made it there the body would simply be disposed of in the more efficent manner. Frequently when it's a close friend or family member the ritual is performed, but typically it's to open the eyes and shout to warn the dead a new soul is coming.
Maybe we now know why this belief survived to the TNG era, and the belief of keeping your dead around and burying them properly didn't?
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According to the reviews, being made by viewers... Here, YouTube, and no-doubt also on facebook and on other sites. Stop thinking that challenging a statement dismisses it.
Also, record numbers of subscribers shows the exact opposite of what you're saying. CBS didn't "drop the ball". Record subscriptions tell a different story.
I've already explained why there has been a record number of signups, I'm not repeating myself. All signups (like box-office ticket sales) shows, is interest to watch the show (or film) Nothing whatsoever about if those signups (or cinema goers) actually enjoyed what they saw. Now while I'm sure you will find some favorable reviews, there's no denying the unfavorable reviews either. You said it youself; Some people liked it, some people didn't. The amount of unfavorable reviews, is telling. But I'm sure you'll find some way to argue with that. Do try and be creative
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I'm not sure, if this ritual is the same one performed to ward off predators looking to take an honored Klingon spirit away from sto'vo'kor, why are they wrapped in bandages and stuck to the hull of a ship and why isn't T'Kuvma sitting with all of them waiting for them to reach sto'vo'kor? He simply put them in a coffin and put their coffins on the hull, almost as if T'Kuvma still don't respect the dead.
More information is needed on this unusual practice.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Burnham is actually the biggest outright disappointment. This is supposedly an officer with 7 years in the field on an exploratory ship, yet she makes mistakes a butterbar wouldn't make, we're talking suicidally stupid errors here, (when your radio link to the only rescue you've got goes out in a jamming field, you don't poke around and take a little walk on the mysterious alien object-this is 'basic safety' stuff, like remembering your helmet on an EVA basic.)
When your radio link is goes out in a jamming field whose existence you knew of before, you continue your mission exactly as you intended to.
It wasn't exactly a surprise that the jamming field would block communications, it blocked sensors as well. It might have not been sure it would happen, but the goal was a fly by and record what they'd saw. The flaw was just that they didn't expect a Klingon warrior to attack her suddenly and knock her unconscious.
The fact that nobody, after seven years of living together could see that the XO's lost it? really??
Had she really lost it? She just learned about the successful way the Vulcans dealt with the Klingons from a source that is basically beyond doubt for her. She had perfect reason to believe that the Klingons would attack and that this could kill everyone aboard.
then, there's the outright betrayal, (the mutiny scene where she vulcan-nerve-pinch-assaults her captain.) of someone who's saved her beautifully shaped behind by being more resourceful and tactically aware than she is. This crosses into territory of "jesus, did she BUY her rank??" levels of stupidity.
She isn't the first Star Trek character to abandon the orders of a superior because she believed to be right.
and this is supposed to be an intelligent person-intelligent enough to have been able to graduate from a vulcan school.
I think they quite cleverly combined her human emotion with Vulcan logic.
Her emotional connection to the crew and her Captain and her past lead her to a great fear about the safety of the new family she had. And then she logically determined what the best way to would have been to avoid that fate.
And quite frankly, it looks like every one of her ideas and decisions could have worked out.
Had they fired first, the Klingon houses might not have even been reunited, even if there might still have been a battle.
If they had actually managed to capture the Klingon "Uniter", they would have stopped him in his tracks.
Her greatest weakness was probably the combination of the loss of her Captain making her kill T'Kuvma (and I am still not sure if that wasn't an accident due to losing the weapon - still a mistake undoubtedly) and that the Science Officer immediately beamed her out without her being able to beam T'Kuvma over.
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And as I said many times, Star wars fans did not seem to mind the "DISCO!" 70's/80's visuals in the past 2 films, yo.
actually this is kind of a false equivalence, since the outfits in Star Wars were always "not mainstream fashion" of the time. Looking at an X-wing, you see that it is a technical device, the dirt, the grease and such. It is a timeless design. Trek on the other hand always had the fashion of the time incorporated. The colours, the way the trousers were cut, the shoes and even the hair cut. Star Wars has a design philosophy that stands besides trends, that is why it will never look "outdated" as much as a dark suit never looks unfashionable.
The Trek Bird of Prey has a similar effect, that is why it was still looking good in DS9 even though it was at that point a almost 20 year old design.
The Spandex uniforms on the other hand look absolutely cringe worthy, because they incorporate colours and cuts of the time it was filmed, that weren't able to make the transition and were constantly replaced.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Burnham is actually the biggest outright disappointment. This is supposedly an officer with 7 years in the field on an exploratory ship, yet she makes mistakes a butterbar wouldn't make, we're talking suicidally stupid errors here, (when your radio link to the only rescue you've got goes out in a jamming field, you don't poke around and take a little walk on the mysterious alien object-this is 'basic safety' stuff, like remembering your helmet on an EVA basic.)
The fact that nobody, after seven years of living together could see that the XO's lost it? really??
then, there's the outright betrayal, (the mutiny scene where she vulcan-nerve-pinch-assaults her captain.) of someone who's saved her beautifully shaped behind by being more resourceful and tactically aware than she is. This crosses into territory of "jesus, did she BUY her rank??" levels of stupidity.
and this is supposed to be an intelligent person-intelligent enough to have been able to graduate from a vulcan school.
worse, she's like the embodiment of mysogynist fallacies.
1. she is treacherous and untrustworthy
2. she is reckless
3. when confronted with a scary thing, her first move is to call daddy.
4. she then ignores the disclaimer on his advice
5. she operates on emotion instead of reason, panics, and lashes out.
6. she is irresponsible when operating personal transportation and unsafe in hazardous areas.
7. she ignores basic operator instructions (like "check your radio periodically when entering a known jamming area")
8. she's secretive.
A lot of this can be explained but of those who posted these same issues in anger, not one has analysed the reasons why Burnham acted the way she did.
1. She acted within the bounds of what she considered a logical response. If there was single person that needed to be saved from imprisonment, you were the captain of a ship of 700 crew sent in to a hostile situation and there were two choices, one based on emotions which you are implying and the second based on pure logic. The emotional choice would be to go in and rescue that prisoner, even if it means taking damage and people being killed, but from a purely logical point of view: Those 700 people are not worth throwing away for just 1 person in a prison cell and neither is upsetting the locals any further than needed.
Just because her choices look like a Betrayal and someone who breaks her bonds doesn't mean in her mind that is the case.
2. Reckless is a strong word to be using, however she is a little aggressive on what her choices are and how to pursue them, but that's the Vulcan upbringing within that is telling her to follow through on her actions. If you had enough convinction to follow someone into to hell to save them, others would see your brave act as foolish and reckless where as you would see it as an act of kindness.
3. She wasn't facing fear, she was facing uncertainity on her actions on how to proceed. She needed direction from Sarek as to how to deal with Klingons as she likely learned about it in Vulcan schools and it was just about recall and being certain.
4. Burnham follows the advice, we never did find out what Sarek actually said to Burnham when the camera cut away to the bridge. She followed the logic in the situation.
5. Burnham was in a situation where she was clearly upset with her actions but she never lost control of her objective to attack the klingons first. It was her only goal at that point. In that she had her senses and her reason.
6. How? She was out there to explore this disturbance and ending up with a bat'leth almost going through her space suit. She was ordered on the mission, meaning so far all her choices were within reason even if she ended up unconcious. She followed the directives, including giving the Klingon fair warning before she acted.
7. How can a radio signal work inside of an active jamming field that is scrambling radio signals? Additionally Burnham did try to communicate with the Shenzhou.
8. Eventually if Discovery lasts long enough that question on her past will reveal itself but like any character driven tv show, hints will show up.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Never said I dismiss your statements. All I ask is for clarification. If you want to make posts that appear to make sweeping generalizations about what all people believe, be prepared to provide defensible data for it.
I don't deny there are negative reviews. Of course there are. Quite a few of them have solid criticisms.
Given that you agree that there are negative reviews, and that they have solid criticisms, why (other than feeling the need to be contrary) do you need me to clarify anything? Why do you need me to clarify something you already know and agree with?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I'm reserving judgement until I've seen more of this... I expect the reset button will be fairly heavily leaned on in episode 3 (either that, or the rest of the season will be Starfleet is the New Black.) I would not be entirely surprised if the second half of episode 2 turned out to be a psychic projection set up by Sarek as a test to see how Burnham would react. (N.B. I am not saying I would be happy to see this. Just not surprised.)
People seem to have reacted to Burnham's character in different ways - the cynic in me wonders, if she was a male character, whether some of those describing her as an irresponsible hot-head would instead be saying "oh, yeah, he's a maverick who gets things done his way and has no time for the rule book". Personally, I think both she and Captain Georgiou were both rather too convinced theirs was the right way... and this is good, it's character conflict, it's the sort of thing you can base good drama on. Burnham certainly has potential to develop into an interesting character, in my view. Whether she'll do it or not - well, we'll see.
Generally speaking, I thought it looked good. It gets a big plus, from me, for being relatively light on the technobabble. The only bit of science that made me actively wince was Sarek seeing the Klingon beacon as a "new star" from a thousand light years away... and, at that, the thing was broadcasting on subspace frequencies as well, so he might just have been being metaphorical. I liked Saru, though I don't believe for a moment in his homeworld's excessively simple ecosystem. Would like to have seen more of the Daft Punk officer on the bridge, too.
The Klingons... need explanation. Apparently, they have been sequestered ever since Enterprise finished, going bald and lumpy and growing extra nostrils - but they still have a hate-on for the Federation, and that doesn't make a lot of sense, if they've not had contact with it. Also, Qo'noS seems to have moved again. It was within easy cruising range for the NX-01 (and so close that Benedict Cumberbatch could just walk there ); now, it's past the very edge of Federation space.
(Also... is it just my imagination, or is that "Black Fleet" stuff of T'Kuvma's a shout-out to John M. Ford and the Klingons of FASA-Trek and The Final Reflection?)
I want to see more of this, and see how it develops. It still has potential to be good, I think. I didn't get nearly as much of the sinking feeling that I got after the Voyager and Enterprise pilots, that's for sure. They've still got room to get this one right. In my opinion.
From what I understand they got the idea that Klingons collect and embalm their dead from Star Trek 4. Spock identifies a Klingon mummification glyph
Also in a Ds9 episode Worf explains a Klingon tradition of them watching over a fallen warrior as he is brought back home.
Klingons from that era consider the dead to be an empty shell after warding off predators looking to steal a Klingon soul that is trying to make it to sto'vo'kor. Once the body has made it there the body would simply be disposed of in the more efficent manner. Frequently when it's a close friend or family member the ritual is performed, but typically it's to open the eyes and shout to warn the dead a new soul is coming.
Yes but there also seems to be another ritual http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ak'voh
Though you are right that it is at odds with the death ritual it is mentioned here that this may be why they do it on Discovery.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I'm reserving judgement until I've seen more of this... I expect the reset button will be fairly heavily leaned on in episode 3 (either that, or the rest of the season will be Starfleet is the New Black.) I would not be entirely surprised if the second half of episode 2 turned out to be a psychic projection set up by Sarek as a test to see how Burnham would react. (N.B. I am not saying I would be happy to see this. Just not surprised.)
People seem to have reacted to Burnham's character in different ways - the cynic in me wonders, if she was a male character, whether some of those describing her as an irresponsible hot-head would instead be saying "oh, yeah, he's a maverick who gets things done his way and has no time for the rule book". Personally, I think both she and Captain Georgiou were both rather too convinced theirs was the right way... and this is good, it's character conflict, it's the sort of thing you can base good drama on. Burnham certainly has potential to develop into an interesting character, in my view. Whether she'll do it or not - well, we'll see.
Generally speaking, I thought it looked good. It gets a big plus, from me, for being relatively light on the technobabble. The only bit of science that made me actively wince was Sarek seeing the Klingon beacon as a "new star" from a thousand light years away... and, at that, the thing was broadcasting on subspace frequencies as well, so he might just have been being metaphorical. I liked Saru, though I don't believe for a moment in his homeworld's excessively simple ecosystem. Would like to have seen more of the Daft Punk officer on the bridge, too.
The Klingons... need explanation. Apparently, they have been sequestered ever since Enterprise finished, going bald and lumpy and growing extra nostrils - but they still have a hate-on for the Federation, and that doesn't make a lot of sense, if they've not had contact with it. Also, Qo'noS seems to have moved again. It was within easy cruising range for the NX-01 (and so close that Benedict Cumberbatch could just walk there ); now, it's past the very edge of Federation space.
(Also... is it just my imagination, or is that "Black Fleet" stuff of T'Kuvma's a shout-out to John M. Ford and the Klingons of FASA-Trek and The Final Reflection?)
I want to see more of this, and see how it develops. It still has potential to be good, I think. I didn't get nearly as much of the sinking feeling that I got after the Voyager and Enterprise pilots, that's for sure. They've still got room to get this one right. In my opinion.
Apparently John M. Ford's Final Reflection was being read on the set. So it's definitely a call-out, and it might be more - they are actually incorporating some of his concepts and ideas in the show, while still trying to combine with the TNG/DS9 era Klingon mythology.
I always thought the best Klingons would be the Final Reflection Klingons with Bat'Leth and the marriage myth of the first two Klingon hearts uniting to slay the Gods. Those would be some of the most amazing antagonists and protagonist. I don't know if they get anywhere close to that, but I can dream.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Seven Years on that ship, with that captain, Rank Commander, position Executive Officer
Commander Riker served as Executive Officer aboard the Enterprise for longer than that. Was he a moron too?
A) swallow your objections, and follow your CO's lead because they're more experienced, and have demonstrated more resourcefulness than you have (and might actually have a clue) argue your point using logic and reason, and when you're shot down, present an alternative plan such as backing up, raising shields, and waiting for backup before engaging the enormous battleship that just vibrated the **** out of your hull with a signal beacon.
C} vulcan-nerve pinch your CO after arguing with and undermining her in front of the crew, storm on out and fire torpedoes to start a fight your ship objectively can't win (Because your backup is hours away at best).
guess which one Burnham picked? hmmm??? are we learning yet??
The Michael Burnham character demonstrated the following grievous vices:
1. irrationality
2. Ingratitude
3. Treachery
4. Negligence
5. Ignorance
6. Arrogance
7. Incompetence
aside from being played by someone who is REALLY good looking, she's a mess of misogynistic stereotypes and fallacies, and that's just in the first episode.
She demonstrates she is waaay over her head in both paygrade, and position. This isn't someone you trust to watch your KIDS, nevermind your Starship.
Vulcans have disobeyed orders using logic as a example of such
Tuvok traded a device from a alien species to help voyager get home quicker despite the captain ordering to respect the species wishes to not share the technology.
Spock technically commits similar act in The Menagerie to help Pike
It pretty clear that Vulcans are not beyond disobeying orders and since she isn't a vulcan but raised like one, its very easy to state that unlike vulcans she is far more prone to human misjudgement.
As for my view on the series so far its mixed, i like the story i like the ship (though having the bridge on the bottom is blasphemy) the cast i liked but i hate the klingons.
This isnt about them looking different however, its the fact they look bad the faces look like rubber and at no point was i under the impression it wasn't just a man in a mask, the design is bad which is ironic since a now 30+ old look for them look far better.
This also isn't a overall issue as the alien officer whos name escapes me actually looks good design wise, i feel that the choice for the klingons was just a bad one, sure if they wanted to update the look i get it but i think they overcompensated and as a result they looked awful.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Well, the Orville is definitely more my cup of tea.
I was hoping (against all hope) that the previously shown Klingons are truly some far out sect and we'd get more "normal Klingons", but well...
Even the ships were ridiculous.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I've been waiting for Star Trek to come back to the small screen with a new series for more than 10 years. And after watching the first episode last night, I probably should have added that I wanted it to be good.
Don't misunderstand me though, I'm one of the rare people who don't have a problem with the new uniforms, the new look of the ships or technology, I don't really even have much problem with the cast. If Gene Roddenberry had made TOS today, things would probably have looked similar as they did in Discovery. Technology advances as do filming techniques, costuming, make up, set building and especially special effects. So I can deal with the look, to an extent.
The new look for the Klingons though is just too much. The poor actors playing the Klingons, that make up is so heavy that they can't use facial expression to add to their portrayal. The prosthetic mouth pieces they wear makes their ability to deliver their lines a mess. Even with them speaking Klingon, it just sounds like they have a mouth full of marbles.
The episode felt dragged out to fit in the time slot. The 40 or so minutes of show could have been told in 20 minutes or less. I was pretty bored by the time Holo-Sarek showed up. There were other things that bugged me about the story but they've been mentioned by others and I don't feel like rehashing.
Maybe, despite every effort on my part to avoid doing it, I got my hopes up too far for the show and then when the show failed to deliver, I am even more disappointed. Or maybe I wanted it to fail and I got exactly what I wanted and feel bad for wanting that. I dunno.
When the show was first announced, what 3 years ago, I was so stoked for it. Then all the production delays happened and then word of it being a streaming only show and I went from stoked to meh. I certainly didn't want, nor do I currently want, the show to fail. But that first episode is just not something that is going to get me to subscribe to the service to watch the show. Not even enough to wait for all the episodes to be released and then sub for a month to binge watch them. Shoot, I wouldn't even use the free trial after all the episodes are released to binge watch them in a week.
For someone who has been watching Star Trek (in re-runs) since I was 5 years old, who watched the pilot episodes of each of the follow up series when they aired and now has all the shows, and movies, sitting on my shelves waiting for me to re-watch them AGAIN, Discovery is just not hitting that place in my heart where Trek lives. If I hear good things about later episodes, perhaps I'll buy it on Bluray. If not, then this will be the first official Trek show that I won't watch.
Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.
I'm going to come back to this all tomorrow night now I've watched them both. Well worth the wait. Not a fan of the background Klingons or their ships (some Krenim looking ones there) but looking at the coming soon trailer and going by this episode I'm excited.
It seems the Shinzwhatsist (I'm never going to have to spell that again thankfully) and the related fleet seem to be even older than the Kelvin, far more like the NX and Franklin than the Kelvin or Newton etc. (which in turn are closer to the Discovery and Constitution), I may have to reassess my assessment of the Kelvin ships ages.
Edit: More direct and explicit statments that Starfleet is not a military and T'Kumva apparently developed the Klingon cloak. Swivel on that people that belived in the daft Romulan Klingon alliance fanfiction.
Post edited by artan42 on
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Given that you agree that there are negative reviews, and that they have solid criticisms, why (other than feeling the need to be contrary) do you need me to clarify anything? Why do you need me to clarify something you already know and agree with?
Because you appear to be making sweeping generalizations.
No, that's just a deflection, you're not answering the question:
Why do you need me to clarify something you already know and agree with?
Even if I am making sweeping generalizations, if you agree with what is being said, why do you need me to clarify something which you already know and agree with, and are capable of verifying for yourself? And don't try to play the 'burden of proof' card: That applies when someone is trying to convince someone else of something where there is a disagreement, and so a proof needs to be provided for the discussion to continue. Given that you agree with the statements, there's no need for me to provide a proof to convince you of my statement. #GoogleIsYourFriend
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My main gripe about the makeup is that it looks like like a mask because the appliances are too heavy/thick to the point where you lose any emoting an actor is doing. As I said in another post, this is surprising as this is the exact thing Glen Hetrick and Neville Page love to criticize contestants on Face-Off for. I guess their own critiques don't apply to them.
EXACTLY!! I been watching those two acting as mentors and judges on Face-Off for 2-3 years, now....was thinking the same thing. They were not following their own basic standards!
Even the costumes were not up to the standards Hetrick and Page demanded from the contestants....the actors could not move in them!!
The only thing I could come up with....someone up stream was not listening to the team when it came to the Klingons, for some reason. ?????
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Comments
Wesley
Tasha
Beverly
Geordi
Data
To be fair, one of Riker's biggest regrets was not mutinying when he could have. You might remember this from the Enterprise finale.
(Sorry, not sorry
DS9 Holograms were kinda different, in that they were the "perfect" kind of holodeck holograms. But yes, they abandoned that. We kinda know they will abandon this again, too.
I really liked Michelle Yeoh's Captain. But I kinda hope that Isaacs Captain will be equally but differently awesome. But only because I really enjoy Isaacs work so far.
Maybe we now know why this belief survived to the TNG era, and the belief of keeping your dead around and burying them properly didn't?
I've already explained why there has been a record number of signups, I'm not repeating myself. All signups (like box-office ticket sales) shows, is interest to watch the show (or film) Nothing whatsoever about if those signups (or cinema goers) actually enjoyed what they saw. Now while I'm sure you will find some favorable reviews, there's no denying the unfavorable reviews either. You said it youself; Some people liked it, some people didn't. The amount of unfavorable reviews, is telling. But I'm sure you'll find some way to argue with that. Do try and be creative
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
More information is needed on this unusual practice.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
It wasn't exactly a surprise that the jamming field would block communications, it blocked sensors as well. It might have not been sure it would happen, but the goal was a fly by and record what they'd saw. The flaw was just that they didn't expect a Klingon warrior to attack her suddenly and knock her unconscious.
Had she really lost it? She just learned about the successful way the Vulcans dealt with the Klingons from a source that is basically beyond doubt for her. She had perfect reason to believe that the Klingons would attack and that this could kill everyone aboard.
She isn't the first Star Trek character to abandon the orders of a superior because she believed to be right.
I think they quite cleverly combined her human emotion with Vulcan logic.
Her emotional connection to the crew and her Captain and her past lead her to a great fear about the safety of the new family she had. And then she logically determined what the best way to would have been to avoid that fate.
And quite frankly, it looks like every one of her ideas and decisions could have worked out.
Had they fired first, the Klingon houses might not have even been reunited, even if there might still have been a battle.
If they had actually managed to capture the Klingon "Uniter", they would have stopped him in his tracks.
Her greatest weakness was probably the combination of the loss of her Captain making her kill T'Kuvma (and I am still not sure if that wasn't an accident due to losing the weapon - still a mistake undoubtedly) and that the Science Officer immediately beamed her out without her being able to beam T'Kuvma over.
actually this is kind of a false equivalence, since the outfits in Star Wars were always "not mainstream fashion" of the time. Looking at an X-wing, you see that it is a technical device, the dirt, the grease and such. It is a timeless design. Trek on the other hand always had the fashion of the time incorporated. The colours, the way the trousers were cut, the shoes and even the hair cut. Star Wars has a design philosophy that stands besides trends, that is why it will never look "outdated" as much as a dark suit never looks unfashionable.
The Trek Bird of Prey has a similar effect, that is why it was still looking good in DS9 even though it was at that point a almost 20 year old design.
The Spandex uniforms on the other hand look absolutely cringe worthy, because they incorporate colours and cuts of the time it was filmed, that weren't able to make the transition and were constantly replaced.
Had a good night
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
A lot of this can be explained but of those who posted these same issues in anger, not one has analysed the reasons why Burnham acted the way she did.
1. She acted within the bounds of what she considered a logical response. If there was single person that needed to be saved from imprisonment, you were the captain of a ship of 700 crew sent in to a hostile situation and there were two choices, one based on emotions which you are implying and the second based on pure logic. The emotional choice would be to go in and rescue that prisoner, even if it means taking damage and people being killed, but from a purely logical point of view: Those 700 people are not worth throwing away for just 1 person in a prison cell and neither is upsetting the locals any further than needed.
Just because her choices look like a Betrayal and someone who breaks her bonds doesn't mean in her mind that is the case.
2. Reckless is a strong word to be using, however she is a little aggressive on what her choices are and how to pursue them, but that's the Vulcan upbringing within that is telling her to follow through on her actions. If you had enough convinction to follow someone into to hell to save them, others would see your brave act as foolish and reckless where as you would see it as an act of kindness.
3. She wasn't facing fear, she was facing uncertainity on her actions on how to proceed. She needed direction from Sarek as to how to deal with Klingons as she likely learned about it in Vulcan schools and it was just about recall and being certain.
4. Burnham follows the advice, we never did find out what Sarek actually said to Burnham when the camera cut away to the bridge. She followed the logic in the situation.
5. Burnham was in a situation where she was clearly upset with her actions but she never lost control of her objective to attack the klingons first. It was her only goal at that point. In that she had her senses and her reason.
6. How? She was out there to explore this disturbance and ending up with a bat'leth almost going through her space suit. She was ordered on the mission, meaning so far all her choices were within reason even if she ended up unconcious. She followed the directives, including giving the Klingon fair warning before she acted.
7. How can a radio signal work inside of an active jamming field that is scrambling radio signals? Additionally Burnham did try to communicate with the Shenzhou.
8. Eventually if Discovery lasts long enough that question on her past will reveal itself but like any character driven tv show, hints will show up.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
People seem to have reacted to Burnham's character in different ways - the cynic in me wonders, if she was a male character, whether some of those describing her as an irresponsible hot-head would instead be saying "oh, yeah, he's a maverick who gets things done his way and has no time for the rule book". Personally, I think both she and Captain Georgiou were both rather too convinced theirs was the right way... and this is good, it's character conflict, it's the sort of thing you can base good drama on. Burnham certainly has potential to develop into an interesting character, in my view. Whether she'll do it or not - well, we'll see.
Generally speaking, I thought it looked good. It gets a big plus, from me, for being relatively light on the technobabble. The only bit of science that made me actively wince was Sarek seeing the Klingon beacon as a "new star" from a thousand light years away... and, at that, the thing was broadcasting on subspace frequencies as well, so he might just have been being metaphorical. I liked Saru, though I don't believe for a moment in his homeworld's excessively simple ecosystem. Would like to have seen more of the Daft Punk officer on the bridge, too.
The Klingons... need explanation. Apparently, they have been sequestered ever since Enterprise finished, going bald and lumpy and growing extra nostrils - but they still have a hate-on for the Federation, and that doesn't make a lot of sense, if they've not had contact with it. Also, Qo'noS seems to have moved again. It was within easy cruising range for the NX-01 (and so close that Benedict Cumberbatch could just walk there
(Also... is it just my imagination, or is that "Black Fleet" stuff of T'Kuvma's a shout-out to John M. Ford and the Klingons of FASA-Trek and The Final Reflection?)
I want to see more of this, and see how it develops. It still has potential to be good, I think. I didn't get nearly as much of the sinking feeling that I got after the Voyager and Enterprise pilots, that's for sure. They've still got room to get this one right. In my opinion.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ak'voh
Though you are right that it is at odds with the death ritual it is mentioned here that this may be why they do it on Discovery.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I always thought the best Klingons would be the Final Reflection Klingons with Bat'Leth and the marriage myth of the first two Klingon hearts uniting to slay the Gods. Those would be some of the most amazing antagonists and protagonist. I don't know if they get anywhere close to that, but I can dream.
original join date 2010
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Tuvok traded a device from a alien species to help voyager get home quicker despite the captain ordering to respect the species wishes to not share the technology.
Spock technically commits similar act in The Menagerie to help Pike
It pretty clear that Vulcans are not beyond disobeying orders and since she isn't a vulcan but raised like one, its very easy to state that unlike vulcans she is far more prone to human misjudgement.
As for my view on the series so far its mixed, i like the story i like the ship (though having the bridge on the bottom is blasphemy) the cast i liked but i hate the klingons.
This isnt about them looking different however, its the fact they look bad the faces look like rubber and at no point was i under the impression it wasn't just a man in a mask, the design is bad which is ironic since a now 30+ old look for them look far better.
This also isn't a overall issue as the alien officer whos name escapes me actually looks good design wise, i feel that the choice for the klingons was just a bad one, sure if they wanted to update the look i get it but i think they overcompensated and as a result they looked awful.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I was hoping (against all hope) that the previously shown Klingons are truly some far out sect and we'd get more "normal Klingons", but well...
Even the ships were ridiculous.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Don't misunderstand me though, I'm one of the rare people who don't have a problem with the new uniforms, the new look of the ships or technology, I don't really even have much problem with the cast. If Gene Roddenberry had made TOS today, things would probably have looked similar as they did in Discovery. Technology advances as do filming techniques, costuming, make up, set building and especially special effects. So I can deal with the look, to an extent.
The new look for the Klingons though is just too much. The poor actors playing the Klingons, that make up is so heavy that they can't use facial expression to add to their portrayal. The prosthetic mouth pieces they wear makes their ability to deliver their lines a mess. Even with them speaking Klingon, it just sounds like they have a mouth full of marbles.
The episode felt dragged out to fit in the time slot. The 40 or so minutes of show could have been told in 20 minutes or less. I was pretty bored by the time Holo-Sarek showed up. There were other things that bugged me about the story but they've been mentioned by others and I don't feel like rehashing.
Maybe, despite every effort on my part to avoid doing it, I got my hopes up too far for the show and then when the show failed to deliver, I am even more disappointed. Or maybe I wanted it to fail and I got exactly what I wanted and feel bad for wanting that. I dunno.
When the show was first announced, what 3 years ago, I was so stoked for it. Then all the production delays happened and then word of it being a streaming only show and I went from stoked to meh. I certainly didn't want, nor do I currently want, the show to fail. But that first episode is just not something that is going to get me to subscribe to the service to watch the show. Not even enough to wait for all the episodes to be released and then sub for a month to binge watch them. Shoot, I wouldn't even use the free trial after all the episodes are released to binge watch them in a week.
For someone who has been watching Star Trek (in re-runs) since I was 5 years old, who watched the pilot episodes of each of the follow up series when they aired and now has all the shows, and movies, sitting on my shelves waiting for me to re-watch them AGAIN, Discovery is just not hitting that place in my heart where Trek lives. If I hear good things about later episodes, perhaps I'll buy it on Bluray. If not, then this will be the first official Trek show that I won't watch.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
It seems the Shinzwhatsist (I'm never going to have to spell that again thankfully) and the related fleet seem to be even older than the Kelvin, far more like the NX and Franklin than the Kelvin or Newton etc. (which in turn are closer to the Discovery and Constitution), I may have to reassess my assessment of the Kelvin ships ages.
Edit: More direct and explicit statments that Starfleet is not a military and T'Kumva apparently developed the Klingon cloak. Swivel on that people that belived in the daft Romulan Klingon alliance fanfiction.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Why do you need me to clarify something you already know and agree with?
Even if I am making sweeping generalizations, if you agree with what is being said, why do you need me to clarify something which you already know and agree with, and are capable of verifying for yourself? And don't try to play the 'burden of proof' card: That applies when someone is trying to convince someone else of something where there is a disagreement, and so a proof needs to be provided for the discussion to continue. Given that you agree with the statements, there's no need for me to provide a proof to convince you of my statement. #GoogleIsYourFriend
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
EXACTLY!! I been watching those two acting as mentors and judges on Face-Off for 2-3 years, now....was thinking the same thing. They were not following their own basic standards!
Even the costumes were not up to the standards Hetrick and Page demanded from the contestants....the actors could not move in them!!
The only thing I could come up with....someone up stream was not listening to the team when it came to the Klingons, for some reason. ?????
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin