Heh, it is funny, until recently there had been speculation that the guys at Trekyards had sold out and were unofficially promoting Discovery. Now that it has aired we finally see Foley revert back to his TOS-centric viewpoint. Anyone who is familiar with Trekyards should know that there was no way a TOS-prequel would ever satisfy Foley.
Yeah see the recent video with both of them. They still sold out. Continuity, what's that. They couldn't even keep the story straight in the same episode. Logic, **** logic, we can cover that up with some lens flair and pretty graphics and a pretty face. Yeah I had my bar set super low and they somehow managed worse...and they are with a straight face saying they can't wait to see more.
Me also.
I gave this show a chance and it let me down.
The other thing that came to mind is that this incident with the Klingons looks like a segue into starting the Four Years War. If the writers do that, then this show becomes a rip-off of Axanar which will make it whale-**** in my opinion (which sinks to the bottom of the ocean and is the lowest of the low).
It becomes a rip off an ego stroking fan project because its based around a canonical concept set in the future from this series? You're really scrapping the ground several metres under where the barrel was for stupid things to hate about new Trek.
Gods forbid a Star Trek show should tie into other Star Trek shows, if an unlicensed and illegal fan project gets there first then CBS should step the hell away from their own IP.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It becomes a rip off an ego stroking fan project because its based around a canonical concept set in the future from this series? You're really scrapping the ground several metres under where the barrel was for stupid things to hate about new Trek.
Gods forbid a Star Trek show should tie into other Star Trek shows, if an unlicensed and illegal fan project gets there first then CBS should step the hell away from their own IP.
Awww....did I hit too close to the truth?
Too bad.
If this swill goes into the Four Years War it is a rip-off of Axanar.
I don't see how it can be a rip-off of something that doesn't exist.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
My only real complaint with TRIBBLE is the look and sound of the Klingons. Listening to dialogue in stunted Klingon with captions makes every scene with them very tedious. Also these hairless fish people (Klingons) make zero sense considering the augment story line of Enterprise, and the classic Klingon look of ToS.
Heh, it is funny, until recently there had been speculation that the guys at Trekyards had sold out and were unofficially promoting Discovery. Now that it has aired we finally see Foley revert back to his TOS-centric viewpoint. Anyone who is familiar with Trekyards should know that there was no way a TOS-prequel would ever satisfy Foley.
Yeah see the recent video with both of them. They still sold out. Continuity, what's that. They couldn't even keep the story straight in the same episode. Logic, **** logic, we can cover that up with some lens flair and pretty graphics and a pretty face. Yeah I had my bar set super low and they somehow managed worse...and they are with a straight face saying they can't wait to see more.
Me also.
I gave this show a chance and it let me down.
The other thing that came to mind is that this incident with the Klingons looks like a segue into starting the Four Years War. If the writers do that, then this show becomes a rip-off of Axanar which will make it whale-**** in my opinion (which sinks to the bottom of the ocean and is the lowest of the low).
Axanar ripped off Star Trek, it can't go the other way around because the people involved with Axanar never had any legal right to do so. I thought the first two episodes of TRIBBLE were utter garbage, but it is perfectly fine for them to cover things Axanar may have been intended to cover.
> @kabutotokugawa said: > coldnapalm wrote: » > > lordrezeon wrote: » > > Heh, it is funny, until recently there had been speculation that the guys at Trekyards had sold out and were unofficially promoting Discovery. Now that it has aired we finally see Foley revert back to his TOS-centric viewpoint. Anyone who is familiar with Trekyards should know that there was no way a TOS-prequel would ever satisfy Foley. > > > > > Yeah see the recent video with both of them. They still sold out. Continuity, what's that. They couldn't even keep the story straight in the same episode. Logic, **** logic, we can cover that up with some lens flair and pretty graphics and a pretty face. Yeah I had my bar set super low and they somehow managed worse...and they are with a straight face saying they can't wait to see more. > > > > > Me also. > I gave this show a chance and it let me down. > The other thing that came to mind is that this incident with the Klingons looks like a segue into starting the Four Years War. If the writers do that, then this show becomes a rip-off of Axanar which will make it whale-**** in my opinion (which sinks to the bottom of the ocean and is the lowest of the low).
I think you'll find if you look it up that the "Four Years War" was something FASA came up with for their version of the Star Trek RPG. It's non-canon. In fact, until Discovery there has NEVER BEEN a canonical full-scale war between the Klingon Empire and the Federation (the DS9 war was considerably smaller in scope than what's implied by "The Vulcan Hello").
The Four Years War won't be canon AFTER DSC, either: the producers have already said that the Klingon War will be resolved in season 1.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I’m indifferent about Axanar, but I will say this: it bothers me that everyone who strongly supports/supported it talks of it as if it was the answer to the fanbase’s prayers.
Why? Because the ships had the TOS aesthetic? Because some of the actors were familiar? These things do not equate to ‘great series by default’. Whilst it admittedly looked more like a product of theTOS setting than Discovery, there is no evidence to support the idea that Axanar would have been a better story than Discovery might be.
I think mostly that they were impressed by the 20 minute short film, which communicated a hell of a lot of promise ("Prelude to Axanar"), which was, (be honest now) actually pretty good work on the budget it had.
It wasn't a promise that could be delivered on with the kind of facilities and budget Peters was able to scare up, but in general terms, it was very very well done, and in the hands of someone with a budget and competence, could've maybe turned out very well with the cast they'd assembled, esp. if the writer who took over from Peters knew their craft.
Part of why they were able to draw in such a good crowd for the crowd-funding. Not enough to actually MAKE a feature film of equal quality, but that's aside. the vision they used employed TOS asthetic with updated FX, and showed that it was possible to get pro-quality that looked good.
And the story might've been VERY good, if penned by the right guys (not necessarily Peters, if he could do the job he was claiming, he'd have been done with a full script before CBS filed suit. he wasn't, he hadn't...)
What triggers the Ax fans, is that CBS filed suit, won the suit, and then rolled out their own prequel in the same timeframe, only with completely different visual asthetics, an unsympathetic main character, boring rubber-suit klingons, and a paywall.
so, y'know, a disappointment. T'Kuvma's about as emotionally charged as a limp cheese sandwich, whereas Richard Hatch's Kharne the Unkillable seethes with menace and dignity and passionate belief, his passion and his frustration ooze off the screen in the short film, you don't even need to see his face to sense how he feels the outcome was unjust.
People compare the two, and TRIBBLE's main Klingon antagonist falls short, with his stiff, raspy, whiny, boring performance.
it gets worse with Peters' Garth, we all k now what happened to Garth of Izar, how he went insane and killed a bunch of innocent people before he could be boxed up and shipped to the nuthouse. but you compare his performance in the short, in the interview pieces, with Burnham, and again, Burnham, in spite of having a better actor (actress) and better funded effects, and an all-star quality supporting cast...falls short. The grade C actor outperforming the Grade A actor, and it's all in the scripting and characterization.
we all KNOW Peters couldn't deliver on the long run. some of us understood he couldn't even when CBS wasn't suing, but the comparison's gonna be made, and for a lot of Trekkers and Trekkies, discovery falls short against what amounted to a 20 minute teaser on youtube that was done as a fanwank.
What makes it even WORSE, is that Discovery had Alex Kurtzman penning it, along with Bryan Fuller-two AAA screenwriting vets, one of whom was responsible for Star Trek:Wrath of Khan, the other for two well liked episodes in Next Generation's time period.
Personally, I don't care much about the legalese behind Axanar. Nor even the conomics. it looked just like a cool project, and nothing else interesting was really happening, aside from the Kelvin Timeline movies which still leave a big void the other 364 days of the year.
I loved the Prelude to Axanar and I actually hoped the entire Axanar movie would be in a mockumentary style.
Alas, at best now we'll get two half hour shorts, it seems. I guess that might be better than nothing.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Axanar ripped off Star Trek, it can't go the other way around because the people involved with Axanar never had any legal right to do so. I thought the first two episodes of TRIBBLE were utter garbage, but it is perfectly fine for them to cover things Axanar may have been intended to cover.
Actually Alec Peters ripped off FASA. I own the RPG from the 1980s and have the "Four Years War" module.
However, my point was that from a PR standing, if TRIBBLE also uses the FASA product as the basis for TRIBBLE, they're going to look like A-holes for suing the Axanar project when they didn't sue over Star Trek Phase II, or Star Trek Renegades, or a whole slew of other Fan-made Star Trek "shows" on youtube and elsewhere. They singled out Peters and that is why CBS/Paramount looks bad if they take the same idea and use it while they left all the other fan-made projects alone.
I understand they have the legal right to do it, but that doesn't change the ethics of it.
You must not have been paying attention to everything that went down with Axanar. Peters was profiting monetarily off of the Axanar project, something the fan made shows you compared it to didn't do, and was using the crowd funding he received to build a studio that he planned to turn into a business once the fan project was completed. He was making money by using someone else's IP without written permission of any kind, he had the hammer dropped on him and he deserved it, and he crippled the fan film scene in the process by forcing CBS and Paramount to issue guidelines.
I still don't get how people can say Axanar was "more Trek" or "the best representation of Trek," when it is a war story.
I don't care if you claim Discovery is a ripoff of Axanar, because that still doesn't explain how it is "more Trek-like" based on a 20-minute mockcumentary and a 2-minute Vulcan scene. Any claim against Discovery applies to Axanar, too, if you talk about story or message
The Four Years War won't be canon AFTER DSC, either: the producers have already said that the Klingon War will be resolved in season 1.
Which for all we know, might cover 4 years or more of story time.
I highly doubt that will happen.
Aside from the fact that FASA ain't canon, and Discovery has nothing to do with Garth of Izar or the Battle of Axanar... any prolonged conflict would come dangerously close to messing with TOS territory. They call this a "war" on screen, but something tells me this isn't like the Dominion War. And, we're ten years away from the Organians stepping in...
I think the writers know all of that, so this war will only last as long as it needs to.
1. you're focusing on the 'out of story' situation. Not everyone thought Axanar would go anywhere. That said, "Prelude to Axanar" was more compelling and engaging with 20 minutes, than the first hour of Star Trek:Discovery=on a miniscule fraction of Discovery's budget.
2. when you compare product-to-product, the first h our of Discovery has higher-end actors, professional directors, two top-shelf writers, three times the screentime, and a hell of a lot more raw budget....and no excuse. Every metric says it should be flat out better, and yet, it's not. It's less compelling and immersive, the main character is somehow with more time on screen, less three dimensional and believable, the main antagonist less interesting or charismatic, the story less immersive and less interesting.
That's hard to overlook.
The only part I've really been trying to discuss as far as Axanar is concerned is that it's impossible for CBS to rip off it's story when it itself was ripping off CBS' IP that last part was just me correcting someone who seems to believe CBS singled Axanar out for no particular reason. I never watched Prelude to Axanar so I can't comment on it's quality, but I did thoroughly dislike the majority of the plot of TRIBBLE's pilot episodes, and I absolutely hate Burnham as a character.
Axanar ripped off Star Trek, it can't go the other way around because the people involved with Axanar never had any legal right to do so. I thought the first two episodes of TRIBBLE were utter garbage, but it is perfectly fine for them to cover things Axanar may have been intended to cover.
Actually Alec Peters ripped off FASA. I own the RPG from the 1980s and have the "Four Years War" module.
However, my point was that from a PR standing, if TRIBBLE also uses the FASA product as the basis for TRIBBLE, they're going to look like A-holes for suing the Axanar project when they didn't sue over Star Trek Phase II, or Star Trek Renegades, or a whole slew of other Fan-made Star Trek "shows" on youtube and elsewhere. They singled out Peters and that is why CBS/Paramount looks bad if they take the same idea and use it while they left all the other fan-made projects alone.
I understand they have the legal right to do it, but that doesn't change the ethics of it.
You must not have been paying attention to everything that went down with Axanar. Peters was profiting monetarily off of the Axanar project, something the fan made shows you compared it to didn't do, and was using the crowd funding he received to build a studio that he planned to turn into a business once the fan project was completed. He was making money by using someone else's IP without written permission of any kind, he had the hammer dropped on him and he deserved it, and he crippled the fan film scene in the process by forcing CBS and Paramount to issue guidelines.
Axxanar was merely a poster child...if it was not axxanar, it would have been ST Continues, or Renegades, or Phase 2. Axxnar was just first in like.
Can't help is CBS/Paramount execs are BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they got talent.
1. you're focusing on the 'out of story' situation. Not everyone thought Axanar would go anywhere. That said, "Prelude to Axanar" was more compelling and engaging with 20 minutes, than the first hour of Star Trek:Discovery=on a miniscule fraction of Discovery's budget.
2. when you compare product-to-product, the first h our of Discovery has higher-end actors, professional directors, two top-shelf writers, three times the screentime, and a hell of a lot more raw budget....and no excuse. Every metric says it should be flat out better, and yet, it's not. It's less compelling and immersive, the main character is somehow with more time on screen, less three dimensional and believable, the main antagonist less interesting or charismatic, the story less immersive and less interesting.
That's hard to overlook.
The only part I've really been trying to discuss as far as Axanar is concerned is that it's impossible for CBS to rip off it's story when it itself was ripping off CBS' IP that last part was just me correcting someone who seems to believe CBS singled Axanar out for no particular reason. I never watched Prelude to Axanar so I can't comment on it's quality, but I did thoroughly dislike the majority of the plot of TRIBBLE's pilot episodes, and I absolutely hate Burnham as a character.
Axanar went down because Alec was committing copyright violation, attempting to use the Star Trek IP without a license in order to finance his own personal company. STC didn't do that - their "Kirkstarters" were always for the amount needed to produce the next episode, not to build something for themselves. I'm not sure how Phase II financed themselves, but I'm pretty doggone sure it wasn't through the sale of T-shirts and coffee bearing trademarked logos.
I know, you want to think he was some kind of Holy Savior because he managed to produce a 20-minute fan-film that actually had some good actors (who, you never mention, jumped ship when they realized what was going on), but you're pinning your hopes on entirely the wrong horse here.
Comments
It becomes a rip off an ego stroking fan project because its based around a canonical concept set in the future from this series? You're really scrapping the ground several metres under where the barrel was for stupid things to hate about new Trek.
Gods forbid a Star Trek show should tie into other Star Trek shows, if an unlicensed and illegal fan project gets there first then CBS should step the hell away from their own IP.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Member since December 2009
Axanar ripped off Star Trek, it can't go the other way around because the people involved with Axanar never had any legal right to do so. I thought the first two episodes of TRIBBLE were utter garbage, but it is perfectly fine for them to cover things Axanar may have been intended to cover.
> coldnapalm wrote: »
>
> lordrezeon wrote: »
>
> Heh, it is funny, until recently there had been speculation that the guys at Trekyards had sold out and were unofficially promoting Discovery. Now that it has aired we finally see Foley revert back to his TOS-centric viewpoint. Anyone who is familiar with Trekyards should know that there was no way a TOS-prequel would ever satisfy Foley.
>
>
>
>
> Yeah see the recent video with both of them. They still sold out. Continuity, what's that. They couldn't even keep the story straight in the same episode. Logic, **** logic, we can cover that up with some lens flair and pretty graphics and a pretty face. Yeah I had my bar set super low and they somehow managed worse...and they are with a straight face saying they can't wait to see more.
>
>
>
>
> Me also.
> I gave this show a chance and it let me down.
> The other thing that came to mind is that this incident with the Klingons looks like a segue into starting the Four Years War. If the writers do that, then this show becomes a rip-off of Axanar which will make it whale-**** in my opinion (which sinks to the bottom of the ocean and is the lowest of the low).
I think you'll find if you look it up that the "Four Years War" was something FASA came up with for their version of the Star Trek RPG. It's non-canon. In fact, until Discovery there has NEVER BEEN a canonical full-scale war between the Klingon Empire and the Federation (the DS9 war was considerably smaller in scope than what's implied by "The Vulcan Hello").
The Four Years War won't be canon AFTER DSC, either: the producers have already said that the Klingon War will be resolved in season 1.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I loved the Prelude to Axanar and I actually hoped the entire Axanar movie would be in a mockumentary style.
Alas, at best now we'll get two half hour shorts, it seems. I guess that might be better than nothing.
You must not have been paying attention to everything that went down with Axanar. Peters was profiting monetarily off of the Axanar project, something the fan made shows you compared it to didn't do, and was using the crowd funding he received to build a studio that he planned to turn into a business once the fan project was completed. He was making money by using someone else's IP without written permission of any kind, he had the hammer dropped on him and he deserved it, and he crippled the fan film scene in the process by forcing CBS and Paramount to issue guidelines.
Which for all we know, might cover 4 years or more of story time.
I don't care if you claim Discovery is a ripoff of Axanar, because that still doesn't explain how it is "more Trek-like" based on a 20-minute mockcumentary and a 2-minute Vulcan scene. Any claim against Discovery applies to Axanar, too, if you talk about story or message
I highly doubt that will happen.
Aside from the fact that FASA ain't canon, and Discovery has nothing to do with Garth of Izar or the Battle of Axanar... any prolonged conflict would come dangerously close to messing with TOS territory. They call this a "war" on screen, but something tells me this isn't like the Dominion War. And, we're ten years away from the Organians stepping in...
I think the writers know all of that, so this war will only last as long as it needs to.
The only part I've really been trying to discuss as far as Axanar is concerned is that it's impossible for CBS to rip off it's story when it itself was ripping off CBS' IP
Axxanar was merely a poster child...if it was not axxanar, it would have been ST Continues, or Renegades, or Phase 2. Axxnar was just first in like.
Can't help is CBS/Paramount execs are BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they got talent.
You might wanna have a looksie, I quite liked it.
I know, you want to think he was some kind of Holy Savior because he managed to produce a 20-minute fan-film that actually had some good actors (who, you never mention, jumped ship when they realized what was going on), but you're pinning your hopes on entirely the wrong horse here.