Of course CCA is fun. It's fun to do 1 minute of work (if you can even call it work) and get paid for 15. Laugh all the way to the bank.
Consider if CCA gave a reward proportional to it's 1 minute completion time. If rewards are meant to represent the 15 minutes duration the queue UI advertizes, that's 48 dil and 5 marks for one minute. You think someone would still find it fun?
Fact is the current reward structure doesn't "enable the expression of these preferences." You play a 15-minute Advanced queue you are going to be paid 48 dil per minute. How's that "viable" compared to CCA's 720?
If a "fact" doesn't does not have consistent explaining power then it should be thrown out as an problematic or an erroneous idea. It's not something to bank real changes on.
STO's economy has been rebalanced many times, and specifically in regard to the queue system (see. adding dil to all queues, scaling back the STF's, R&D, reputation daily bonus's, admiralty, and continued refinements in long queue design). Despite time and the volume of change, no appreciable effect has been observed. Even when there's far less need to maximize income rates through base PVE queue rewards people (as in: the bulk of the PVE population which would be unfair to characterize [looking at common builds] as min-maxing players) still play the short ones intensively. Alternatives have been made increasingly viable (even to the point where one's income rate from base PVE rewards isn't worth considering. Admiralty assignments can offer a lot more and all that takes is a minute of clicking at most and casual log ins) and yet here we are.
If rewards were the problem we should expect (in following the idea constantly and logically, not just however it best suits us) that changing the rewards should, in some respect, change the intensity of CCA/ISA/Alerts (including fleet). Even if a total fix isn't produced, some movement away from exclusive grinding should have been observed (in tinkering with the root of the problem). But that hasn't been the case, in spite of everything short queues still get played almost exclusively. It's time to look to other explanations rather than repeating the same old mantras with greater noise and emphasis (hoping that oh just this next time it'll really work.) It hasn't, it likely won't, so perhaps one should consider the possibly that short queues are a valid gameplay preference held by players at large rather than an error (represented only in dil math, in spite of our saturation) that needs to be corrected.
Then, that might lead to a more productive discussion of what can be done with PVE gameplay design to account for taste on all sides (long and short alike) and precipitate real change in the PVE population distribution (namely, new queues that can hold a population.) This could be in addition to other reward balancing, but my point is that the problem can't be solved with rewards tweaks alone (there's more going on here.)
Bull. No rewards balancing has ever been done. The short queues have always given disproportionately high numeric rewards. CCA's reward was significantly increased with DR.
Originally this game was about Star Trek ships, right ? Well, currently it isn't.
I just finished a CCA run. (after giving up on two less popular queues) 1 Lockbox ship, 2 fedscorts, event carrier. Together they did about 30% of the team damage. My Kor is by no means optimized, nor is it gold plated. I don't even have AOE attacks slotted. It's close to an RP built with cannons and a single torp.
Needless to say optional failed. That's just not fun. The game is saddled with too much additional stuff. Ship, personal and rep traits in addition to grinding sets und grinding to upgrade them to mk XIV, then grinding to upgrade the quality, then grinding to get lockbox traits....oh and grinding for the "right" boffs with OP traits.
Just too much of a difference between new players and veterans to be fun anymore. -> maintenance mode untill winter event with the small hope the fleet comes back to life then.
Originally this game was about Star Trek ships, right ? Well, currently it isn't.
I just finished a CCA run. (after giving up on two less popular queues) 1 Lockbox ship, 2 fedscorts, event carrier. Together they did about 30% of the team damage. My Kor is by no means optimized, nor is it gold plated. I don't even have AOE attacks slotted. It's close to an RP built with cannons and a single torp.
Needless to say optional failed. That's just not fun. The game is saddled with too much additional stuff. Ship, personal and rep traits in addition to grinding sets und grinding to upgrade them to mk XIV, then grinding to upgrade the quality, then grinding to get lockbox traits....oh and grinding for the "right" boffs with OP traits.
Just too much of a difference between new players and veterans to be fun anymore. -> maintenance mode untill winter event with the small hope the fleet comes back to life then.
But upgrading as never been so easy since the release of the Phoenix box. As for the right boffs: those are little extras. You can complete most content without getting everything to epic quality or getting certain traits etc. That's just to make things a bit more perfect, it is by no means necessary to complete normal or advanced content.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Originally this game was about Star Trek ships, right ? Well, currently it isn't.
I just finished a CCA run. (after giving up on two less popular queues) 1 Lockbox ship, 2 fedscorts, event carrier. Together they did about 30% of the team damage. My Kor is by no means optimized, nor is it gold plated. I don't even have AOE attacks slotted. It's close to an RP built with cannons and a single torp.
Needless to say optional failed. That's just not fun. The game is saddled with too much additional stuff. Ship, personal and rep traits in addition to grinding sets und grinding to upgrade them to mk XIV, then grinding to upgrade the quality, then grinding to get lockbox traits....oh and grinding for the "right" boffs with OP traits.
Just too much of a difference between new players and veterans to be fun anymore. -> maintenance mode untill winter event with the small hope the fleet comes back to life then.
But upgrading as never been so easy since the release of the Phoenix box. As for the right boffs: those are little extras. You can complete most content without getting everything to epic quality or getting certain traits etc. That's just to make things a bit more perfect, it is by no means necessary to complete normal or advanced content.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Yeah, the MK XIV gold stuff and super lockbox traits are really not necessary tbh.
For normal and advanced all you really need is very rare MKXII stuff (fleet variants preferably). And a proper skill tree.
Heck, just having a "good skill tree" allows players to be competitive even with MK X rare equipment tbh..
Most of my alts from before R&D are kitted out with MK XII VR Fleet ADV stuff . They do pretty darn good for throw away toons I put hardly any effort into.
They also don't have all the fancy ship traits my 2 mains have.
Bull. No rewards balancing has ever been done. The short queues have always given disproportionately high numeric rewards. CCA's reward was significantly increased with DR.
Now that's just not accurate, dilithium was added across all queues (check fleet PVE's now and season 6, short queues like Fleet Alert and Colony invasion used to offer zero dil), the rewards were scaled back with the STF's (which are still among the top), and the reputation system (plus later introduction of dailes) considerably changed the PVE reward structure. This is in addition to broader changes in the dilithium economy which have added more sources (zones, episodes, admiralty) which should (if your hypothesis was consistently supportable) have made the base reward calculus less and less of a factor for PVE selection (why grind according to just one metric from a diverse dilithium ecosystem when the cost is something that people supposedly don't want to play for its own sake?)
Answer: people do want to play that content for its own sake as well as the rewards, short queues are preferred over long in general though that interest may not be well represented on the forums (hence FED Fleet Alert also holding onto a consistent population in spite of it's comparatively poor rewards.) The rewards help sustain a preference for short queues (in as much as they are non-zero) but rewards alone do not explain observed trends in the PVE population, especially now when those base queue rewards are increasingly irrelevant to maximizing income.
Look at all facts and how they interact over time, it's the best way to make sure you're not developing a blind spot which might sabotage efforts to address a real problem. PVE's have become an increasingly unbalanced system and if there's a design component as well to the problem then asking Cryptic to only look at dilithium (which to justify unique rewards you downplayed, remember) or other incidentals the effort is going to be rendered moot (since a component of the problem may remain to keep the system unbalanced in spite of changes, such as those listed above.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Bull. No rewards balancing has ever been done. The short queues have always given disproportionately high numeric rewards. CCA's reward was significantly increased with DR.
Now that's just not accurate, dilithium was added across all queues (check fleet PVE's now and season 6, short queues like Fleet Alert and Colony invasion used to offer zero dil), the rewards were scaled back with the STF's (which are still among the top), and the reputation system (plus later introduction of dailes) considerably changed the PVE reward structure. This is in addition to broader changes in the dilithium economy which have added more sources (zones, episodes, admiralty) which should (if your hypothesis was consistently supportable) have made the base reward calculus less and less of a factor for PVE selection (why grind according to just one metric from a diverse dilithium ecosystem when the cost is something that people supposedly don't want to play for its own sake?)
None of which has ever even tried to address the short queues' disproportionate reward/time ratio.
There is no "diverse dilithium ecosystem." There is only that content which gives the most of it and whole lot of useless waste of time. Which nobody plays because it's a waste of time.
Answer: people do want to play that content for its own sake as well as the rewards, short queues are preferred over long in general though that interest may not be well represented on the forums (hence FED Fleet Alert also holding onto a consistent population in spite of it's comparatively poor rewards.) The rewards help sustain a preference for short queues (in as much as they are non-zero) but rewards alone do not explain observed trends in the PVE population, especially now when those base queue rewards are increasingly irrelevant to maximizing income.
Idle speculation not supported by evidence.
Fleet Alert does not have "comparatively poor rewards." Sure, it loses to CCA (because everything does), but it beats all the new-styled 15-20 minute timegated queues hands down. It also has accolades for killing each of the randomly occurring bosses, so there's a reason to play it for more than just the numeric rewards. I myself have played it countless times trying to get those accolades.
Look at all facts and how they interact over time, it's the best way to make sure you're not developing a blind spot which might sabotage efforts to address a real problem. PVE's have become an increasingly unbalanced system and if there's a design component as well to the problem then asking Cryptic to only look at dilithium (which to justify unique rewards you downplayed, remember) or other incidentals the effort is going to be rendered moot (since a component of the problem may remain to keep the system unbalanced in spite of changes, such as those listed above.)
The queues don't reward anything but dilithium-equivalent, possibly fleet marks and a box R&D materials which are 99% identical.
An idea that is interesting to me in how to make set-item a bit more competitive an appealing to use compared to non-set items would be as fallows. Slotting two parts that are in a item-set would not merely unlock the 2-piece bonus in this version, but would unlock the entire set-bonus all levels, but additional parts of the set would improve the effect/stats/abilities gained from the set's bonuses. Now some of the set bonuses would need to be adjusted an looked at, but this could make using sets abit more appealing, and make having item's from a set on a ship from a event a little less of a pain (completing the set would only give a small boost to strength not additional onuses).
Though i will say i like the idea of giving ships a set of slots that you can slot item's that are associated with set's linked to that ship, which would free up console spaces, and if you made it that items slotted into these slots did not give the bonus of the console only counted towards the set-bonus it might be abit more balanced.
Sounds interesting, however again I do have to point out the sheer number of slots you might need. The Flagship and Vesta sets have a total of 6 consoles each.
Still an interesting idea.
Oh yeah though if you use a combination of sots that are used explicitly for consoles that are part of a set that exclusively for that ship (as long as in this type of slot it would only count towards the set bonus). While also using the idea that to get the set bonuses you would only need to have two parts of the set slotted, but slotting more of the set merely increases the power/strength of the set bonuses, but this would mean re balancing the set bonuses to not make it overpowered. With such a system you would see that even the flagship set you would need to only sacrifice three slots making the set alot more appealing to use.
having a set of drops that are linked to a specific stf or group of stfs, even if players hate the randomness of getting it, it still creates more appeal to play that content that is linked to the drop. Yet I think a system of consolidating the population into a group of stfs, such as via rotating the available stfs in the que-system, since it would play on the fact that many players if they see a good amount of players qued up for a stf they are willing to que up too. Many times I find people say to go into pre-made groups for stfs, but many times players don't want to waste the time (their there opinion) an would just rather que up, so even if many players would go into pre-made groups to get the drops many more would still use the normal que-ing system. Even the idea of having a weekly missions that have you needing to finish a different stf, or group of stfs to gain a specific drop or box of goods would work I think.
But upgrading as never been so easy since the release of the Phoenix box. As for the right boffs: those are little extras. You can complete most content without getting everything to epic quality or getting certain traits etc. That's just to make things a bit more perfect, it is by no means necessary to complete normal or advanced content.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Many little things but they add up. More traits (unlocked via fleet lab), better traits (usually lockbox), reputation, upgrading stuff (phoenix event isn't constantly available)...the list is long. A shitload of fleet credits is required to get the unlocks and tac consoles alone. Ah rock and roll you say ? Needs to get unlocked, too. And pilot spec isn't exactly fotm.
New alts may have the advantage of account unlocks and faster rep grind but that's it. When people know their chars are underperforming they will either do the easy stuff (red alerts, which are good for XP, too) or the standard CCA and ISA were they can expect to get carried by the team. Char advancement is one of the driving motivations to play this game.
And everyone usually wants to make the best out of the played time. The grind is so epic that playing the game for "fun" often stops at some point. From there on it's just a dirty asia grinder.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Moving out of range is soo 2011. But yeah, Rock & Roll is good, as are any of the Pilot thruster abilites (which grand temporary immunity, when timed right). Or Overwhelming Force. Or GDF, Or Brace for Impact (with proper extender doff). Or pressing the clicky of the Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, etc, etc. But I no longer move out of range. No longer need to.
Many little things but they add up. More traits (unlocked via fleet lab), better traits (usually lockbox), reputation, upgrading stuff (phoenix event isn't constantly available)...the list is long. A shitload of fleet credits is required to get the unlocks and tac consoles alone. Ah rock and roll you say ? Needs to get unlocked, too. And pilot spec isn't exactly fotm.
New alts may have the advantage of account unlocks and faster rep grind but that's it. When people know their chars are underperforming they will either do the easy stuff (red alerts, which are good for XP, too) or the standard CCA and ISA were they can expect to get carried by the team. Char advancement is one of the driving motivations to play this game.
And everyone usually wants to make the best out of the played time. The grind is so epic that playing the game for "fun" often stops at some point. From there on it's just a dirty asia grinder.
You don't even need all those... Just heal up your shields and buff up with something that increases your resistances, like Polarized Hull and Aux2SIF. I find even my escorts could tank those waves that way.
No, they need to make the PVE's worth doing. Normals should reward no less then 75 marks and they need to be tweaked to be faster and easier. Also normals should reward 1 elite mark, advanced should be 2 and elite should be 3.
Spending 20+ minutes in a mission to get done and make 20 marks is an instant never doing that again for me.
No, they need to make the PVE's worth doing. Normals should reward no less then 75 marks and they need to be tweaked to be faster and easier. Also normals should reward 1 elite mark, advanced should be 2 and elite should be 3.
Spending 20+ minutes in a mission to get done and make 20 marks is an instant never doing that again for me.
Yeah, going to have to strongly disagree with almost every word here.
Your proposal would just have people running normal mode over and over and finishing queues in 2 min flat.
Most people wouldn't spend 20 minutes in a normal queue solo, much less with a team. Normal mode is already as easy as content can possibly get without just giving you the reward for queuing up. They already added the ability to get Elite Marks by cashing in 100 Rep Marks, this was for people that didn't want to run advanced queues for Elite Marks and it's a good compromise.
Your suggestion is frankly WAY too far in the other direction. That's way too much for such incredibly easy content.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Moving out of range is soo 2011. But yeah, Rock & Roll is good, as are any of the Pilot thruster abilites (which grand temporary immunity, when timed right). Or Overwhelming Force. Or GDF, Or Brace for Impact (with proper extender doff). Or pressing the clicky of the Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, etc, etc. But I no longer move out of range. No longer need to.
Meh, the stupid wave has gotten so weak it doesn't even kill my pets anymore. I just ignore it. Rarely even notice it go off with all the visual spam.
No, they need to make the PVE's worth doing. Normals should reward no less then 75 marks and they need to be tweaked to be faster and easier. Also normals should reward 1 elite mark, advanced should be 2 and elite should be 3.
Spending 20+ minutes in a mission to get done and make 20 marks is an instant never doing that again for me.
Got to disagree with getting elite marks for merely finishing the que, but now if you gained a elite mark from completing the optional objectives in the mission on normal, and even making it that completing optional objectives is how you gain elite marks from any que instead of bonus marks, than I would that would fit better. I could see that it might work as fallows with normal ques giving you a single elite mark for completing the optional objectives in the mission, advanced might give one elite mark standard an one elite mark for finishing the optional objectives of the mission, and elite ques would give two elite marks for finishing them an two elite marks for finishing the optional objectives of the mission. Hell I could see removing getting elite marks from finishing any que, and only giving elite marks when you complete optional objectives in the stf ( maybe one elite in normal, two to three in advanced, and 3-4 in elite.), since it would actually give a more appealing reward to getting the optional objectives than merely bonus reg marks. Those older stfs that do not have elite marks associated with their rep would keep the bonus marks gained from completing the optional, though honestly I would rather see those older reps that do not have elite marks reworked to gain some projects that need elite marks.
I an it feels like many players do not feel like the bonus marks gained from completing the optional objectives in the mission is a good enough incentive to worry about them, most of all since in advanced you are going to be getting an elite mark regardless of the optional completing or failing, and there are many other ways of making up the reg marks you would have gained from the failed optional objective. A change like this would give the optional objectives a better incentive to want to complete them, and also make going into normal more appealing to players.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Moving out of range is soo 2011. But yeah, Rock & Roll is good, as are any of the Pilot thruster abilites (which grand temporary immunity, when timed right). Or Overwhelming Force. Or GDF, Or Brace for Impact (with proper extender doff). Or pressing the clicky of the Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, etc, etc. But I no longer move out of range. No longer need to.
Meh, the stupid wave has gotten so weak it doesn't even kill my pets anymore. I just ignore it. Rarely even notice it go off with all the visual spam.
I was going to post something similar tbh.
Does anyone actually really have trouble with the wave these days unless you were a fresh lvl 50 player in a brand new ship?
I just tank it, an by tank it i mean sit there stationary and just let it hit me with little impact on my output. In fact getting hit in the face with it gives you more need to heal = more chance at 1st place.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Moving out of range is soo 2011. But yeah, Rock & Roll is good, as are any of the Pilot thruster abilites (which grand temporary immunity, when timed right). Or Overwhelming Force. Or GDF, Or Brace for Impact (with proper extender doff). Or pressing the clicky of the Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, etc, etc. But I no longer move out of range. No longer need to.
Yeah I know. It's not necessary in most cases. But I was responding to someone who was saying that a CCA optional failed while talking about gear a lot.
So what I meant was that if gear or lack of access to abilities to survive the wave is the problem for him, he could always move out of range.
I've suggested it before, but here goes. Queues need some kind of unique reward. The old grab bag system if you will of something dropping at the end with an uberl00tz option like the old OLD Borg model (and other MMOs I've played do this as well). Reputation is good and all, but they implemented it to solve the problem of people complaining about not getting aforementioned uberl00tz. Problem is it went from one extreme to the other. Removing the fun factor of opening a reward box to see whatcha got. That in itself is a lot of the fun. Now we went from all randomness to 100% chance of getting what you want. I think there should be some kind of a middle ground where you have a gear box drop at the end with possible exclusive uberl00tz that is different from the rep gear. Or do one better and switch it up. Have like one or two set pieces obtainable in the rep system, and the last one as a UR drop from the queue crate. The other reason people don't play queues is you don't give them a reason to. You can max reputations without ever touching content related to them. Choice mark boxes should be removed period from Borg ra and tholian RA and should be reserved for events only.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Moving out of range is soo 2011. But yeah, Rock & Roll is good, as are any of the Pilot thruster abilites (which grand temporary immunity, when timed right). Or Overwhelming Force. Or GDF, Or Brace for Impact (with proper extender doff). Or pressing the clicky of the Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, etc, etc. But I no longer move out of range. No longer need to.
Meh, the stupid wave has gotten so weak it doesn't even kill my pets anymore. I just ignore it. Rarely even notice it go off with all the visual spam.
I was going to post something similar tbh.
Does anyone actually really have trouble with the wave these days unless you were a fresh lvl 50 player in a brand new ship?
I just tank it, an by tank it i mean sit there stationary and just let it hit me with little impact on my output. In fact getting hit in the face with it gives you more need to heal = more chance at 1st place.
I find aggro'ing the Tholian mobs a lot more of a threat tbh. There's a good chance if I catch their attention I'll have a nonstop stream of Torps heading my way. And a good chance I can die if my heals are on cooldown or I cant get out of range in time.
The Crystalline Blast, meh not so much of a threat. But is still capable of one shotting my escorts if they don't get a res buff up in time...
Mind you, I usually build with a skill tree that's light on any kind of Defense (for PvE). So, if I've got 20-30% Res across the board, its a good day.
The Crystal's wave damage is based off incoming energy damage during it's absorption phase. It's weak now since a lot of players that run there either have torpedo builds, sci builds or weak energy weapon ships. I've seen parses there where 7-8/10 players are below 5k so that wave gets much weaker.
I've suggested it before, but here goes. Queues need some kind of unique reward. The old grab bag system if you will of something dropping at the end with an uberl00tz option like the old OLD Borg model (and other MMOs I've played do this as well). Reputation is good and all, but they implemented it to solve the problem of people complaining about not getting aforementioned uberl00tz. Problem is it went from one extreme to the other. Removing the fun factor of opening a reward box to see whatcha got. That in itself is a lot of the fun. Now we went from all randomness to 100% chance of getting what you want. I think there should be some kind of a middle ground where you have a gear box drop at the end with possible exclusive uberl00tz that is different from the rep gear. Or do one better and switch it up. Have like one or two set pieces obtainable in the rep system, and the last one as a UR drop from the queue crate. The other reason people don't play queues is you don't give them a reason to. You can max reputations without ever touching content related to them. Choice mark boxes should be removed period from Borg ra and tholian RA and should be reserved for events only.
So, once you get the best-in-slot item, why would you continue to play the queue?
If the queue is unfun, it will die as soon as the drop is obtained. The big reason players continued to play the old STFs even after they got the drop is because there was nothing else to do.
I'm not a fan of random loot. I prefer the current system where you earn a specific currency then make your purchase at a store. Then I know exactly how many times I have to run the garbage queue before I can do something more fun.
Admiralty is currently over-rewarding. I am currently earning more than my daily Dilithium refinement cap just by doing Admiralty alone.
Sorry for popping in late, and if this was already asked.... OP, how are you getting 8k+ just from Admiralty? Do you run up a full set of missions multiple times a day? /curious I generally only get ~2-3k/character when I'm logging in, but I just do it once a day. (Once a day's already enough of a time drain that way, given additional alts. And plenty of my alts don't have the ships needed for lots of missions a day. My KDF's and Roms especially)
(edit: and re: the original topic... I'm another in the 'nothing will make me queue' category. /shrug)
Yeah I know. It's not necessary in most cases. But I was responding to someone who was saying that a CCA optional failed while talking about gear a lot.
So what I meant was that if gear or lack of access to abilities to survive the wave is the problem for him, he could always move out of range.
I never mentioned the wave killing people. You assumed that. I mentioned that the damage was bad, and an optional failed. Now guess again which objective failed.
The same happened in an ISA run recently. Since noone cares to play it the old way optional failes when the DPS isn't there to kill the transformer fast enough or one of the nanite generators survives long enough.
And DPS is a lot about gear and timegated skills/traits/whatever unlocks.
Sorry for popping in late, and if this was already asked.... OP, how are you getting 8k+ just from Admiralty? Do you run up a full set of missions multiple times a day? /curious I generally only get ~2-3k/character when I'm logging in, but I just do it once a day. (Once a day's already enough of a time drain that way, given additional alts. And plenty of my alts don't have the ships needed for lots of missions a day. My KDF's and Roms especially)
(edit: and re: the original topic... I'm another in the 'nothing will make me queue' category. /shrug)
Argh Arc ate my comment...
Anyway (retyping as much as I can), I posted my method earlier in the thread:
Morning before work while having breakfast (I wake up early anyway), slot in missions from Klingon arc. All VR missions I either slot a single shuttle or whatever expendable ship (unless it rewards 1k+ dil).
I run mostly 15-45min missions until I get ToD (which happens most of the time within the first 30mins).
Extra slots I start slotting in 1h+ missions from Ferengi arc with expendable ships unless they pay out 1k+ Dil.
At night, I collect Ferengi and Klingon missions I slotted earlier.
Repeat what I did with Klingon arc.
Usually within an hour I get Ferengi ToD as well.
If I don't get the ToD within the first hour I usually skip that for the next day. I get enough Dil from the minor missions anyway.
Edit: To give you an idea of how much Dil I earn just from the minor missions this way, I've earned up to 5k+ just from one morning round (collected at night). At a bad day, I'd earn 2-3k from each round. That's more than enough to earn more than I refine just from the 2 Admiralty missions.
Basically I run it twice a day. All it takes is about 10-15 mins of my real time (since I do something else while running them). If I fill all 8 slots and the next slot won't free up within my allocated hour for that round, I will ditch that day and attempt for the ToD the next day. At worst, it has taken me 15 days to get 10 ToDs from Klingon/Ferengi. However, my previous Admiralty runs means everything just evens out.
This method lets me hit the ToD almost every day, which means I only have to earn an additional 2k Dil per day. 2k is very easy to hit with the Admiralty. On ToD "droughts" (where they won't spawn within my first few tries) previous admiralty runs and daily Dil income from daily admiralty runs still let me maintain a positive income of Dil.
The thing is you don't need to finish every single admiralty missions. Start with the short ones and only really play the ones that pay major Dil. The others you can just slot throw-away ships like low-tier ships or shuttles. Failure in Admiralty doesn't really do anything against you.
Except it shows that you are not worthy of commanding a Fleet.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
That's interesting to learn.
I just finished a CCA run. (after giving up on two less popular queues) 1 Lockbox ship, 2 fedscorts, event carrier. Together they did about 30% of the team damage. My Kor is by no means optimized, nor is it gold plated. I don't even have AOE attacks slotted. It's close to an RP built with cannons and a single torp.
Needless to say optional failed. That's just not fun. The game is saddled with too much additional stuff. Ship, personal and rep traits in addition to grinding sets und grinding to upgrade them to mk XIV, then grinding to upgrade the quality, then grinding to get lockbox traits....oh and grinding for the "right" boffs with OP traits.
Just too much of a difference between new players and veterans to be fun anymore. -> maintenance mode untill winter event with the small hope the fleet comes back to life then.
But upgrading as never been so easy since the release of the Phoenix box. As for the right boffs: those are little extras. You can complete most content without getting everything to epic quality or getting certain traits etc. That's just to make things a bit more perfect, it is by no means necessary to complete normal or advanced content.
The CCA optional usually only fails when not enough people move out of range (> 10 km) from the entity. The instant death something you can avoid with stuff like Rock and Roll (the Pilot ability just to be clear) but also by debuffing, healing, increasing resistance or just moving out of range. It has very little to do with grinding, more with piloting / steering away at the right time, or just activating the right stuff at the right moment.
Yeah, the MK XIV gold stuff and super lockbox traits are really not necessary tbh.
For normal and advanced all you really need is very rare MKXII stuff (fleet variants preferably). And a proper skill tree.
Heck, just having a "good skill tree" allows players to be competitive even with MK X rare equipment tbh..
Most of my alts from before R&D are kitted out with MK XII VR Fleet ADV stuff . They do pretty darn good for throw away toons I put hardly any effort into.
They also don't have all the fancy ship traits my 2 mains have.
Now that's just not accurate, dilithium was added across all queues (check fleet PVE's now and season 6, short queues like Fleet Alert and Colony invasion used to offer zero dil), the rewards were scaled back with the STF's (which are still among the top), and the reputation system (plus later introduction of dailes) considerably changed the PVE reward structure. This is in addition to broader changes in the dilithium economy which have added more sources (zones, episodes, admiralty) which should (if your hypothesis was consistently supportable) have made the base reward calculus less and less of a factor for PVE selection (why grind according to just one metric from a diverse dilithium ecosystem when the cost is something that people supposedly don't want to play for its own sake?)
Answer: people do want to play that content for its own sake as well as the rewards, short queues are preferred over long in general though that interest may not be well represented on the forums (hence FED Fleet Alert also holding onto a consistent population in spite of it's comparatively poor rewards.) The rewards help sustain a preference for short queues (in as much as they are non-zero) but rewards alone do not explain observed trends in the PVE population, especially now when those base queue rewards are increasingly irrelevant to maximizing income.
Look at all facts and how they interact over time, it's the best way to make sure you're not developing a blind spot which might sabotage efforts to address a real problem. PVE's have become an increasingly unbalanced system and if there's a design component as well to the problem then asking Cryptic to only look at dilithium (which to justify unique rewards you downplayed, remember) or other incidentals the effort is going to be rendered moot (since a component of the problem may remain to keep the system unbalanced in spite of changes, such as those listed above.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
There is no "diverse dilithium ecosystem." There is only that content which gives the most of it and whole lot of useless waste of time. Which nobody plays because it's a waste of time.
Idle speculation not supported by evidence.
Fleet Alert does not have "comparatively poor rewards." Sure, it loses to CCA (because everything does), but it beats all the new-styled 15-20 minute timegated queues hands down. It also has accolades for killing each of the randomly occurring bosses, so there's a reason to play it for more than just the numeric rewards. I myself have played it countless times trying to get those accolades.
The queues don't reward anything but dilithium-equivalent, possibly fleet marks and a box R&D materials which are 99% identical.
Oh yeah though if you use a combination of sots that are used explicitly for consoles that are part of a set that exclusively for that ship (as long as in this type of slot it would only count towards the set bonus). While also using the idea that to get the set bonuses you would only need to have two parts of the set slotted, but slotting more of the set merely increases the power/strength of the set bonuses, but this would mean re balancing the set bonuses to not make it overpowered. With such a system you would see that even the flagship set you would need to only sacrifice three slots making the set alot more appealing to use.
having a set of drops that are linked to a specific stf or group of stfs, even if players hate the randomness of getting it, it still creates more appeal to play that content that is linked to the drop. Yet I think a system of consolidating the population into a group of stfs, such as via rotating the available stfs in the que-system, since it would play on the fact that many players if they see a good amount of players qued up for a stf they are willing to que up too. Many times I find people say to go into pre-made groups for stfs, but many times players don't want to waste the time (their there opinion) an would just rather que up, so even if many players would go into pre-made groups to get the drops many more would still use the normal que-ing system. Even the idea of having a weekly missions that have you needing to finish a different stf, or group of stfs to gain a specific drop or box of goods would work I think.
Many little things but they add up. More traits (unlocked via fleet lab), better traits (usually lockbox), reputation, upgrading stuff (phoenix event isn't constantly available)...the list is long. A shitload of fleet credits is required to get the unlocks and tac consoles alone. Ah rock and roll you say ? Needs to get unlocked, too. And pilot spec isn't exactly fotm.
New alts may have the advantage of account unlocks and faster rep grind but that's it. When people know their chars are underperforming they will either do the easy stuff (red alerts, which are good for XP, too) or the standard CCA and ISA were they can expect to get carried by the team. Char advancement is one of the driving motivations to play this game.
And everyone usually wants to make the best out of the played time. The grind is so epic that playing the game for "fun" often stops at some point. From there on it's just a dirty asia grinder.
Moving out of range is soo 2011.
You don't even need all those... Just heal up your shields and buff up with something that increases your resistances, like Polarized Hull and Aux2SIF. I find even my escorts could tank those waves that way.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Spending 20+ minutes in a mission to get done and make 20 marks is an instant never doing that again for me.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yeah, going to have to strongly disagree with almost every word here.
Your proposal would just have people running normal mode over and over and finishing queues in 2 min flat.
Most people wouldn't spend 20 minutes in a normal queue solo, much less with a team. Normal mode is already as easy as content can possibly get without just giving you the reward for queuing up. They already added the ability to get Elite Marks by cashing in 100 Rep Marks, this was for people that didn't want to run advanced queues for Elite Marks and it's a good compromise.
Your suggestion is frankly WAY too far in the other direction. That's way too much for such incredibly easy content.
Got to disagree with getting elite marks for merely finishing the que, but now if you gained a elite mark from completing the optional objectives in the mission on normal, and even making it that completing optional objectives is how you gain elite marks from any que instead of bonus marks, than I would that would fit better. I could see that it might work as fallows with normal ques giving you a single elite mark for completing the optional objectives in the mission, advanced might give one elite mark standard an one elite mark for finishing the optional objectives of the mission, and elite ques would give two elite marks for finishing them an two elite marks for finishing the optional objectives of the mission. Hell I could see removing getting elite marks from finishing any que, and only giving elite marks when you complete optional objectives in the stf ( maybe one elite in normal, two to three in advanced, and 3-4 in elite.), since it would actually give a more appealing reward to getting the optional objectives than merely bonus reg marks. Those older stfs that do not have elite marks associated with their rep would keep the bonus marks gained from completing the optional, though honestly I would rather see those older reps that do not have elite marks reworked to gain some projects that need elite marks.
I an it feels like many players do not feel like the bonus marks gained from completing the optional objectives in the mission is a good enough incentive to worry about them, most of all since in advanced you are going to be getting an elite mark regardless of the optional completing or failing, and there are many other ways of making up the reg marks you would have gained from the failed optional objective. A change like this would give the optional objectives a better incentive to want to complete them, and also make going into normal more appealing to players.
I was going to post something similar tbh.
Does anyone actually really have trouble with the wave these days unless you were a fresh lvl 50 player in a brand new ship?
I just tank it, an by tank it i mean sit there stationary and just let it hit me with little impact on my output. In fact getting hit in the face with it gives you more need to heal = more chance at 1st place.
Yeah I know. It's not necessary in most cases. But I was responding to someone who was saying that a CCA optional failed while talking about gear a lot.
So what I meant was that if gear or lack of access to abilities to survive the wave is the problem for him, he could always move out of range.
I find aggro'ing the Tholian mobs a lot more of a threat tbh. There's a good chance if I catch their attention I'll have a nonstop stream of Torps heading my way. And a good chance I can die if my heals are on cooldown or I cant get out of range in time.
The Crystalline Blast, meh not so much of a threat. But is still capable of one shotting my escorts if they don't get a res buff up in time...
Mind you, I usually build with a skill tree that's light on any kind of Defense (for PvE). So, if I've got 20-30% Res across the board, its a good day.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
If the queue is unfun, it will die as soon as the drop is obtained. The big reason players continued to play the old STFs even after they got the drop is because there was nothing else to do.
I'm not a fan of random loot. I prefer the current system where you earn a specific currency then make your purchase at a store. Then I know exactly how many times I have to run the garbage queue before I can do something more fun.
At this point, I think Cryptic has given up on queues and has put their effort into things that people can do instead.
Sorry for popping in late, and if this was already asked.... OP, how are you getting 8k+ just from Admiralty? Do you run up a full set of missions multiple times a day? /curious I generally only get ~2-3k/character when I'm logging in, but I just do it once a day. (Once a day's already enough of a time drain that way, given additional alts. And plenty of my alts don't have the ships needed for lots of missions a day. My KDF's and Roms especially)
(edit: and re: the original topic... I'm another in the 'nothing will make me queue' category. /shrug)
I never mentioned the wave killing people. You assumed that. I mentioned that the damage was bad, and an optional failed. Now guess again which objective failed.
The same happened in an ISA run recently. Since noone cares to play it the old way optional failes when the DPS isn't there to kill the transformer fast enough or one of the nanite generators survives long enough.
And DPS is a lot about gear and timegated skills/traits/whatever unlocks.
Original STO beta tester.
Argh Arc ate my comment...
Anyway (retyping as much as I can), I posted my method earlier in the thread:
Basically I run it twice a day. All it takes is about 10-15 mins of my real time (since I do something else while running them). If I fill all 8 slots and the next slot won't free up within my allocated hour for that round, I will ditch that day and attempt for the ToD the next day. At worst, it has taken me 15 days to get 10 ToDs from Klingon/Ferengi. However, my previous Admiralty runs means everything just evens out.
This method lets me hit the ToD almost every day, which means I only have to earn an additional 2k Dil per day. 2k is very easy to hit with the Admiralty. On ToD "droughts" (where they won't spawn within my first few tries) previous admiralty runs and daily Dil income from daily admiralty runs still let me maintain a positive income of Dil.
The thing is you don't need to finish every single admiralty missions. Start with the short ones and only really play the ones that pay major Dil. The others you can just slot throw-away ships like low-tier ships or shuttles. Failure in Admiralty doesn't really do anything against you.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!