Again. You missed my point. Where in Insurrection do you see the Collector ship actually fire a shot? IT DOESN"T. It doesn't even have engines. It has to be towed. It doesn't have a hanger bay. The Collector ship, in game, was just a cop out from designing a real Son'a Dreadnought. Despite what some people say, Insurrection is canon and has happened in the game.
By what you are saying, you wouldn't mind having a Federation holodeck ship as a dreadnought as well? Sure, just throw tons of weapons, hanger bays, and make it a hitpoint sponge, and you got yourself yet another cop out pathetic dreadnought.
I can do one better.....Let's make the Phoenix a dreadnought too......You don't seem to have an issue with the either, right?
It isn't really a cop out. They wanted to bring us the Son'a design, not some novel design no one has seen or heard before and has no particular interest in. Turning the collector ship into a dreadnought doesn't really fit what it was in canon, but it does allow turning it into an interesting NPC ship and a potential future player ship.
Also, it's HUGE, it looks intimidating just from sheer size.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My issue with this mission is the constant death; the ground part is wonderful, and i like the wave fight at the end but the son'a ships weaponry make me aggrivated to a degree i've not seen since the original ninja gaiden. The gravity wells and waves that decimate shields and armor are to heavy handed, i mean i understand i would have a harder time as a tactical officer but i've even tried as an engineer geared toward taking damage and still was destroyed numerous times. The episode itself was well done, i like the writing and voice acting, i enjoyed the cut scenes but the space battle against the son'a (both the planetary guard and the final fight leave something to be desired. I do not want it to be easy but i expect if played with an eye toward defense that you come out ahead instead of dying an unreasonable amount of times
that collector IS the son'a dreadnought; that's why it has several hundred K worth of HP during the fight near the end of the mission
By your logic, the Holodeck ship can be a dreadnought if it has hundreds of thousands of hitpoints, yet it it also weaponless and does not attack.
You can slap hundreds of thousands of hitpoints on any ship and you can call it a dreadnought by what you are saying. I am saying that Cryptic has took a CANON SHIP and turned it into something the ship was NOT designed for.
A true dreadnought has it's OWN design and not just any ship that's a hitpoint sponge.
how long between insurction and the events in the mission , dont you think that maybe the son'a might have refitted it with engines and weapons?
that collector IS the son'a dreadnought; that's why it has several hundred K worth of HP during the fight near the end of the mission
By your logic, the Holodeck ship can be a dreadnought if it has hundreds of thousands of hitpoints, yet it it also weaponless and does not attack.
You can slap hundreds of thousands of hitpoints on any ship and you can call it a dreadnought by what you are saying. I am saying that Cryptic has took a CANON SHIP and turned it into something the ship was NOT designed for.
A true dreadnought has it's OWN design and not just any ship that's a hitpoint sponge.
how long between insurction and the events in the mission , dont you think that maybe the son'a might have refitted it with engines and weapons?
Picard blew up the original. This is more a matter of building a new ship that's the same shape.
and as far as stretches of SoD go, refitting a formerly unarmed vessel with weapons doesn't even register as a blip on the shark-jump radar, since such a thing has been done in the past in real life too
Just played it... it was so bad, 60 mins wasted. There is no way I am replaying that on all my toons. I actually have a headache...
Again very poor story, recycled mission from the rescuing the Founder, basically the same thing..
The worst part was the space battle at the end.. so predictable, they have done the same thing and pattern in the last 3 episodes now... just a mess.. I could not even enjoy seeing the sails go up and look at the new ships... all feels so very pointless
Yeah, the story has been all over the place. First we go into the Lukari, blah blah, then now Klingons. Instead of you know, attacking the Tzenkethi. Like sending a fleet to their homeworld and either telling them to knock it off, or to explain why exactly why they are doing what they are doing...
Introduce cool Jem'Hadar character in blog. Feature cool character in episode. Get people to think "Wow, this is a cool character, I hope we see more of him." Kill off cool character in utterly pointless manner.
I mean seriously, what the heck was up with that scene? He does a suicide rush and Martok not only just stands there and watches, but stops someone else when they try to save him.....then he acts all surprised and angry at the result. What? Who wrote this nonsense?
Introduce cool Jem'Hadar character in blog. Feature cool character in episode. Get people to think "Wow, this is a cool character, I hope we see more of him." Kill off cool character in utterly pointless manner.
I mean seriously, what the heck was up with that scene? He does a suicide rush and Martok not only just stands there and watches, but stops someone else when they try to save him.....then he acts all surprised and angry at the result. What? Who wrote this nonsense?
I think he though the pistol shot might hit him. ~shrugs~
I am going to begin this with the simple statement that I had fun in this mission and I have run it on three different characters.
Now as someone that has watched a lot of SFdebris I am going to give my opinion of how it could have been better. If I repeat anything someone else has said. Please take it as multiple people having noticed.
Entry to the system is the Hollywood tactic of jam communications and blow everyone up. But jammed communications will show it is jammed. The moment comms are jammed the forces and the facility should have gone on alert. Better use would be shuttle in similar to the Vault. You are with Rodek and have to fly a shuttle to a satellite in system to steal codes between patrols. Once you have the codes, you fly in past the vast array of ships you will have to fight on your way out and it can be noted as a rough route.
This secret facility, the guards act like it is a full on and proper prison institution. Going through in and out processing. The guard that asks about five new lifers? He really needed to recognize the KDF character. You were instrumental in bringing the discommendation to the house of Torg. You have vengeance specifically pointed your way and fought Torg first hand. KDF member really should be recognized. Maybe a line of. "Finally we have this one. I can't wait to begin extracting our revenge." or something similar.
Martok had never met Worf's brother before he was turned to Rodek. So how did he recognize him on site? This seems a plot hole. Especially since he should have known the son of an allied house. Which Noggra is to house Martok.
It would have been satisfying if instead of you just automatically get the cannons you always carry if they did a repeat of the Arena mission. Your weapons are unequipped and you have to pick up weapons on your way out. Releasing prisoners to have forces and assist in the escape.
The turrets would not be reworkable from the prisoner side of the doors. Unless they put in a line about how your security knowledge is crucial to the mission and why you are on it in the first place. Or limit able to turn the turrets around one at a time to engineers.
Surface fight. Martok stopping any assistance to his friend he would not leave behind is a bit weak to then see said friend casually slaughtered. It is well done. He looks like his neck is well broken. But better to have been separated on exit so he could perform a mission and been caught for that scene.
Marok's line and kicking the opponent into the shaft. Just needs the action tightened closer to simultaneous to his words. Other wise it felt like. "This is the part where you fall down."
Returning to your ships that have now caught up. But the system is on full alert. You have to fight your way out to your reinforcements. Who will be at a point on the map. But Torg is between you and Martok wants you to get him aboard that ship. So you are instrumental in allowing his vengeance as opposed to incidental.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Martok had never met Worf's brother before he was turned to Rodek. So how did he recognize him on site? This seems a plot hole. Especially since he should have known the son of an allied house. Which Noggra is to house Martok.
In 2372 Kurn learned of Martok and Gowron's plan to invade the Cardassian Union and risk a war with the Federation, he opposed it but was voted down by the Council. It's pretty certain that Martok would certainly have known who Kurn was by this point.
I enjoyed it. My only real quibble: on a planet guarded by Son'a ships, in territory that is nominally Son'a... there are no Son'a npcs involved with the defense of the facility. Seemed... weird, if Torg was (apparently) "leasing" space from them.
'Hey, I just lease the space to them, what they do with it, I don't know, it is their business.'
Where have we heard that before.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Personally, I'm just curious why The Dominion keeps popping up. The Son'a eluded to having connections with them at the start of the big, final space battle of the episode.
Is the deduction here that The Dominion are the reason that the Tzenkethi have begun their rampage? They are one of the last big superpowers that we haven't really had an 'open' conflict with. The Dominion clearly has/had an interest in the Alpha Quadrant. If this deduction is true, then my remaining question is whether the Tzenkethi have become agents of The Dominion, or if their escalation is a matter of self-preservation against them.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Martok had never met Worf's brother before he was turned to Rodek. So how did he recognize him on site? This seems a plot hole. Especially since he should have known the son of an allied house. Which Noggra is to house Martok.
In 2372 Kurn learned of Martok and Gowron's plan to invade the Cardassian Union and risk a war with the Federation, he opposed it but was voted down by the Council. It's pretty certain that Martok would certainly have known who Kurn was by this point.
But that was the changeling Martok. The general we eventually liked was a prisoner before that.
Yes you're right. Seems it is then a plot hole. I suppose Martok may have met Kurn some other undocumented time but such a big plot point is going to need to be explained fully.
Actually, when would he have even needed to have met him in person? You can recognize people from photos, and Martok clearly wasn't THAT familiar as it took him a while to recognize him.
Martok had never met Worf's brother before he was turned to Rodek. So how did he recognize him on site? This seems a plot hole. Especially since he should have known the son of an allied house. Which Noggra is to house Martok.
In 2372 Kurn learned of Martok and Gowron's plan to invade the Cardassian Union and risk a war with the Federation, he opposed it but was voted down by the Council. It's pretty certain that Martok would certainly have known who Kurn was by this point.
But that was the changeling Martok. The general we eventually liked was a prisoner before that.
Yes you're right. Seems it is then a plot hole. I suppose Martok may have met Kurn some other undocumented time but such a big plot point is going to need to be explained fully.
Actually, when would he have even needed to have met him in person? You can recognize people from photos, and Martok clearly wasn't THAT familiar as it took him a while to recognize him.
At the end of Brushfire, doesn't Rodek mention how much Martok has told him and how it leaves a lot of questions unanswered?
I don't think Martok would have all that from a photo unless he was very certain.
given that we don't know what Martok told Rodek/Kurn, it may be the history of how/why he became Rodek.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
We don't need to be using salt shakers for medical scanners because they did that irl 50 years ago. This is STO, not Cannon (sic).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I had assumed the same, but just wanted to check.
Thank you.
how long between insurction and the events in the mission , dont you think that maybe the son'a might have refitted it with engines and weapons?
My character Tsin'xing
What does Q need with a starship ?
Again very poor story, recycled mission from the rescuing the Founder, basically the same thing..
The worst part was the space battle at the end.. so predictable, they have done the same thing and pattern in the last 3 episodes now... just a mess.. I could not even enjoy seeing the sails go up and look at the new ships... all feels so very pointless
I actually feel bad for the devs at this point...
I mean seriously, what the heck was up with that scene? He does a suicide rush and Martok not only just stands there and watches, but stops someone else when they try to save him.....then he acts all surprised and angry at the result. What? Who wrote this nonsense?
I think he though the pistol shot might hit him. ~shrugs~
Now as someone that has watched a lot of SFdebris I am going to give my opinion of how it could have been better. If I repeat anything someone else has said. Please take it as multiple people having noticed.
Entry to the system is the Hollywood tactic of jam communications and blow everyone up. But jammed communications will show it is jammed. The moment comms are jammed the forces and the facility should have gone on alert. Better use would be shuttle in similar to the Vault. You are with Rodek and have to fly a shuttle to a satellite in system to steal codes between patrols. Once you have the codes, you fly in past the vast array of ships you will have to fight on your way out and it can be noted as a rough route.
This secret facility, the guards act like it is a full on and proper prison institution. Going through in and out processing. The guard that asks about five new lifers? He really needed to recognize the KDF character. You were instrumental in bringing the discommendation to the house of Torg. You have vengeance specifically pointed your way and fought Torg first hand. KDF member really should be recognized. Maybe a line of. "Finally we have this one. I can't wait to begin extracting our revenge." or something similar.
Martok had never met Worf's brother before he was turned to Rodek. So how did he recognize him on site? This seems a plot hole. Especially since he should have known the son of an allied house. Which Noggra is to house Martok.
It would have been satisfying if instead of you just automatically get the cannons you always carry if they did a repeat of the Arena mission. Your weapons are unequipped and you have to pick up weapons on your way out. Releasing prisoners to have forces and assist in the escape.
The turrets would not be reworkable from the prisoner side of the doors. Unless they put in a line about how your security knowledge is crucial to the mission and why you are on it in the first place. Or limit able to turn the turrets around one at a time to engineers.
Surface fight. Martok stopping any assistance to his friend he would not leave behind is a bit weak to then see said friend casually slaughtered. It is well done. He looks like his neck is well broken. But better to have been separated on exit so he could perform a mission and been caught for that scene.
Marok's line and kicking the opponent into the shaft. Just needs the action tightened closer to simultaneous to his words. Other wise it felt like. "This is the part where you fall down."
Returning to your ships that have now caught up. But the system is on full alert. You have to fight your way out to your reinforcements. Who will be at a point on the map. But Torg is between you and Martok wants you to get him aboard that ship. So you are instrumental in allowing his vengeance as opposed to incidental.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
But that was the changeling Martok. The general we eventually liked was a prisoner before that.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Where have we heard that before.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Is the deduction here that The Dominion are the reason that the Tzenkethi have begun their rampage? They are one of the last big superpowers that we haven't really had an 'open' conflict with. The Dominion clearly has/had an interest in the Alpha Quadrant. If this deduction is true, then my remaining question is whether the Tzenkethi have become agents of The Dominion, or if their escalation is a matter of self-preservation against them.
Do they know everyone is talking over Worf and each other, WHILE the ships are shooting at us behind them all?
I still haven't figured out what the heck they are all saying.....I really would like to know what is going on with the story.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Oh...cool. I never have the chat window open.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing