Besides the bugs (which I don't know if they ever fixed since I stopped going there after getting my accolades), the tzenkethi BZ suffers from the same fundamental problem all the battlezones do. It's designed with the assumption that the instance will be full (15 players or whatever) with no scaling, so if there's too few players it's unwinnable. Only winning it gives decent reward (if it's not still bugged), simply capturing nodes is worth a daily mark box at best...which you might as well get from a Red Alert.
And since none of the BZs created after the voth one have additional single-player missions that attract people in even when they can't win the whole zone by themselves....it's chicken and egg. People don't go to empty BZ because it's unwinnable, and it's unwinnable because people don't go there.
Besides the bugs (which I don't know if they ever fixed since I stopped going there after getting my accolades), the tzenkethi BZ suffers from the same fundamental problem all the battlezones do. It's designed with the assumption that the instance will be full (15 players or whatever) with no scaling, so if there's too few players it's unwinnable. Only winning it gives decent reward (if it's not still bugged), simply capturing nodes is worth a daily mark box at best...which you might as well get from a Red Alert.
And since none of the BZs created after the voth one have additional single-player missions that attract people in even when they can't win the whole zone by themselves....it's chicken and egg. People don't go to empty BZ because it's unwinnable, and it's unwinnable because people don't go there.
People used to go there but the Tzenkethi Battle zone is ugly and uninspiring. They put absolutely no effort in it and besides, only well made adv and elite ships can play it. Compared to other BZs it sucks. However, since season 13 nerf the entire game is dead. Everybody left. The game lost 80% of their customers. Just look at the queue system, it is full of 0s and 1s. Last year at this time is was packed, you would wait 30 seconds foe any queue, now you are lucky if you wait 30 mins and that is if you get 3 or 4 people. It is a graveyard out there and the sad part is that they don't listen to what their customers are saying.
Well after yet another lacklustre reward from this system, i think i'll skip it from now on. The rewards i've received just haven't sold me on doing the tasks anymore.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
After seeing several Endeavor cycles, I think I'm prepared to make a critique.
The rewards are a little on the low side in comparison to the tasks you need to do. Yes, many of the tasks are stupid easy and the rewards should reflect that. However, if you want to give old content a fresh look, Cryptic should really consider sweetening the deal. I only go after the endeavors which I know for a fact I can knock out in 5-10 minutes tops, and requires the least amount of effort on my part. If Cryptic is fine with me doing that, cool. But if they want me to complete a Temporal Mission from the arc, or kill 20 Terran Ground NPCs, the amount of time and effort I'd spend doing content that'd give me completion would be better spent elsewhere.
If you want more participation, you need to give players a reason to do these endeavors each and every time, rather than only when they're convenient. I think the Endeavor system is a great addition to the game, but given the cooldown timer, and the fact you only need to do it once per account, I think there's some room for a payout improvement since this isn't a game mechanic that can be endlessly spammed or abused by an account.
After seeing several Endeavor cycles, I think I'm prepared to make a critique.
The rewards are a little on the low side in comparison to the tasks you need to do. Yes, many of the tasks are stupid easy and the rewards should reflect that. However, if you want to give old content a fresh look, Cryptic should really consider sweetening the deal. I only go after the endeavors which I know for a fact I can knock out in 5-10 minutes tops, and requires the least amount of effort on my part. If Cryptic is fine with me doing that, cool. But if they want me to complete a Temporal Mission from the arc, or kill 20 Terran Ground NPCs, the amount of time and effort I'd spend doing content that'd give me completion would be better spent elsewhere.
If you want more participation, you need to give players a reason to do these endeavors each and every time, rather than only when they're convenient. I think the Endeavor system is a great addition to the game, but given the cooldown timer, and the fact you only need to do it once per account, I think there's some room for a payout improvement since this isn't a game mechanic that can be endlessly spammed or abused by an account.
All the tasks so far have been "stupid easy." Except the crafting one which was just stupid, period. As if I'd spend refined dilithium to get yet another box that probably has nothing but a handful of EC that amounts to pocket change.
It really needs severe improvement on the rewards front. Preferably unique items, but at the very least guaranteed dil/marks. I've gotten enough boxes with nothing but EC and/or cheap crafting mats in them that I'm just about ready to end the experiment that was the Endeavor system and join the people asking for option to hide the indicator from my screen, permanently.
And more involved tasks would be nice too. Like that 20 enemies task, could use an extra 0 at the end. Or a possibility, tiered rewards where you'd get a little something at 20, something better at 200 and something really good for 2,000...
Count me as against changing Endeavors to be "more challenging" or longer, or having them give unique rewards. We already have activities that are like that. We don't need more of the same.
I will get on board for increasing the rewards within the same categories that they already have, increasing the frequency of the tasks, or some combination of the two.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
I'm enjoying the Endeavor system so far. As others have said, the tasks have not been overly challenging or time-consuming, and have prompted me to do things I haven't done in a while. All fine by me.
I don't have a particular comment about the level of rewards, since I'm doing them more as "something new to do".
The one thing that seems a bit "off" to me is that Endeavors are at the account level, although I understand the reasons for making them so.
Change the endeavor with small, medium and large rewards and claim button after the small endeavor is reached, use 3 goals to achieve. For example tier 1 needs 25k damage of type , T2 50k and T3 needs 100K
As a casual player definitely against making it harder or more challenging. In my opinion there is way too much number chasing in the game as it is. Gaming should not be a job, I already have one of those and don't want my entertainment to be a second one. It does a good job getting me to go play content I have not played for a while. Would be nice if I could do it on all characters but hey, beggers cant be choosers.
First time for the Tour for me. I built a Duvqu' Heavy Destroyer just for the occasion because it has the 60 Slipstream. I need to do some tweaking.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Count me as against changing Endeavors to be "more challenging" or longer, or having them give unique rewards. We already have activities that are like that. We don't need more of the same.
I will get on board for increasing the rewards within the same categories that they already have, increasing the frequency of the tasks, or some combination of the two.
Maybe have them all last 2 days, but get a new one daily?
This last one gave me what I'd consider almost the worst possible reward in the system, 4 Normal R&D boxes and a 50 marks box. Even then, so what? It's a bonus reward on top of the queue rewards I already got while healing my shields. A bonus is a bonus, it's extra stuff, and I'm not going to complain about extra stuff. Would I like it to be more extra stuff? Sure, who wouldn't.
I'm also not going to rant about how terrible one is when it requires me to use 2 cents worth of refined dilithium. I, and many others here, have used far more refined dilithium to upgrade something into garbage that might not even return the EC that you could get from the contents of 5 Normal R&D boxes, so I can keep it in perspective.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
This last one gave me what I'd consider almost the worst possible reward in the system, 4 Normal R&D boxes and a 50 marks box. Even then, so what? It's a bonus reward on top of the queue rewards I already got while healing my shields. A bonus is a bonus, it's extra stuff, and I'm not going to complain about extra stuff. Would I like it to be more extra stuff? Sure, who wouldn't.
I'm also not going to rant about how terrible one is when it requires me to use 2 cents worth of refined dilithium. I, and many others here, have used far more refined dilithium to upgrade something into garbage that might not even return the EC that you could get from the contents of 5 Normal R&D boxes, so I can keep it in perspective.
I actually didn't run a queue. I did the mission where you fight the Planet Killer at Galorndon.
Any episode with a lot of space combat would have worked, I'd imagine, it was just easier to queue up for a Tholian Red Alert than drag myself out to whichever mission that I would pick.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
As a casual player definitely against making it harder or more challenging. In my opinion there is way too much number chasing in the game as it is. Gaming should not be a job, I already have one of those and don't want my entertainment to be a second one. It does a good job getting me to go play content I have not played for a while. Would be nice if I could do it on all characters but hey, beggers cant be choosers.
On the contrary, challlenge is what separates a game from a job.
Without challenge, it's just a chore you do because they pay you. In pretend money.
Any episode with a lot of space combat would have worked, I'd imagine, it was just easier to queue up for a Tholian Red Alert than drag myself out to whichever mission that I would pick.
Well, I looked at the missions I had waiting to be done and figured I might as well just do one of those. Besides, this particular character kinda needed some body armor for a boff.
I did a Tholian Red Alert today and came up a few short, so I ran a Romulan Patrol Mission in the Beta Lankel System. Hadn't done that one in quite a while.
In the Tholian Red Alert they usually go for the Capital Ships first and there are usually two or three Support Groups left after the Capitals. Today, they were going for the Support Groups first so 5 of 5 before the Capitals.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I like the endeavor system since it's just another bonus for doing what I already do anyway. Kill some Tholians, heal shields, tour the galaxy etc. Plus it got me into some missions and queues that I haven't done in a while which I liked. I'd prefer the missions to be per character instead of account but if it's free it's for me so thank you for the easy rewards.
RIP (2022) : Officer Wilbert Mota, Corporal Charles Galloway, Detective Jason Rivera, Officer Fernando
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
All together, I like it. Except for the space it uses on my sometimes already clotted mission screen. If it is something I like to do, even get reminded of that it exists (foundry mission!), I will happily do it and gather the bonus reward. If it isn't - well, I won't be "losing" that much (quotation marks because opportunity costs really shouldn't factor into something you do for enjoyment).
Yes, some of these are stupidly easy (the "Polaron type 20k one" I did with a toon having only an omni and a back facing beam array of it on its rainbow, still got it after 1.5 mobs in Borg Red Alert). But if it's meant to be to give you a sniff into something instead of a real challenge, that works for me. The name "endeavor" though wouldn't be as fitting in that instance.
If I do a full doff/admiralty grind on my 8 toons, it can take 3 hours.
We do something very differntly apparently. I have 18 toons and need way less time. Still enough to not make it daily but only when I feel like it, granted, but 3 mins per toon for admiralty, maybe 5 if I also take in rewards and have to cope with the "fallout" (like starting a prisoner doff mission on KDF or airlocking prisoners on Fed). Less on doffing. Again granted, I do not really optimize. But 8 toons should be an hour tops - still too much for a daily, because as you stated you are not really playing the game, just gathering rewards.
I am not so sure just about everyone I know has given up on Endeavor as a waste of time. Many who flocked to Defera and not going to bother flocking to Defera next time or to any of the other areas. Time will tell off course but based on what I have seen, I expect people taking part in Endeavor is going drop a very large amount.
Indeed, time will tell. For now though my fleet is very excited, way more than I am. And even I really consider it a plus. Probably we all are in our respective bubbles when trying to guesstimate what will happen. But as long as it is enough to fill up a small amount of battlezones or queues, that may carry a long way.
3. Increase the possible scale of the rewards. Yesterday I received 450k ec. Wow. What will I do with such wealth?!?!
One thing I have been taught by other players is that not everybody is in the hundreds of billions, because not everybody is running dailies. So 450k ain't that much, but coming in at regular intervals will maybe help you get your 15 million on the exchange console couple of days sooner. Very welcome. Oh, and nobody doing the "Tour the Galaxy" should complain about that.
On the contrary, challlenge is what separates a game from a job.
Without challenge, it's just a chore you do because they pay you. In pretend money.
Gotta disagree here. Yes, just clicking admiralty is more of a job than a game. But not every "challenge" is welcome. Especially if said challenge means only grinding more. "200 ships in time frame" feels a lot more like a job to me than 20. Yes, it needs organization and involvement, but so does my job. I like me a challenge, even if it comes to games, now and again and will work towards it, but for three times a week that'd be a bit much.
Each consecutive time a task is completed up to a max of 7 the chance of getting a better reward goes up by 5%. If you miss a task then the counter drops back to the current rummage down the back of the sofa for some credits setup that isn't in the slightest rewarding.
AND for the love of spock make that damned bar its own UI element that we can hide or stick in a corner and ignore since the chances of actually making it a decent and rewarding bums on seats thing (that it obviously is trying to be) are infinitesimally small since the overlords can't make money from it.
But what is a "better reward"? If you only mean "100 marks instead of 50", I may follow. If you're talking about dil vs. marks vs. ec vs. mats, I won't. Some people have more dil than they can refine and would love marks. Some already turn their marks into dil.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Gotta disagree here. Yes, just clicking admiralty is more of a job than a game. But not every "challenge" is welcome. Especially if said challenge means only grinding more. "200 ships in time frame" feels a lot more like a job to me than 20. Yes, it needs organization and involvement, but so does my job. I like me a challenge, even if it comes to games, now and again and will work towards it, but for three times a week that'd be a bit much.
Well, no. 200 ships in 2-3 days is not a challenge. Not so long as the actual ship killing itself has all the challenge of shooting rubber ducks in a bathtub with a machinegun.
On the other hand, 20 ships is practically a login bonus. Which isn't a bad thing, but it isn't really interesting either.
Which is why I said having them tiered would be nice...your little 20 ship login bonus, 200 for the trying-my-best-here tier and then 2,000 ships for the top tier challenge. Or something like that.
The main point is that the top challenge should be something exceptional, that the average player DOESN'T expect to be successful in "three times a week."
Of course, that was just an example derived from the existing endeavor templates. Ideally the challenges should be something more interesting. But alas, there aren't that many activities in STO that are in and of themselves challenging, so barring new content all I have to suggest is bigger numbers.
Well, no. 200 ships in 2-3 days is not a challenge. Not so long as the actual ship killing itself has all the challenge of shooting rubber ducks in a bathtub with a machinegun.
Precisely. So it isn't a gameplay challenge any more than 20 ships is. Only thing is: you need to do one more STF. And another. Watch the cooldowns if you don't want to run the gamut. And if that is the only challenging part, getting it into three days or so, I would say that challenge is not welcome to me. Even less the 2000 version.
The Endeavour will never be challenging in gameplay terms, at least not to the advanced player with good equipment and an understanding of the game. Unless you really turn it up to eleven (Win an elite queue using only white Mk II gear on your starting ship), in which case it won't be a system aimed at everybody anymore.
So the way I understand it, the intention of the system is to show players places they haven't seen yet or forgotten about (Defera), introduce elements of the game (Foundry), show that there is more than one build (Polaron) - the latter certainly will be news to many of the build advisers in zone chat. (OTOH: taking build ideas from Cryptic is a double edged sword, we all know the builds they provide with a new ship or on the missions where you take over a different ship).
In this I also do not think that it is designed to get new players, more like encouraging the older ones to explore. Whether or not this will succeed, only time will tell, but I think the idea of "giving them something to do to play for hours" (like a 2000 challenge) would work less for the majority of the people. Especially those who don't play enough from the Cryptic viewpoint. Because the ones killing 2000 cubes by rotating queues are probably the same players as those already spending a lot of their time in game, they just would do it somewhere else. (Or even in the same queues, considering how many people run multiple ISAs per day)
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Well, no. 200 ships in 2-3 days is not a challenge. Not so long as the actual ship killing itself has all the challenge of shooting rubber ducks in a bathtub with a machinegun.
Precisely. So it isn't a gameplay challenge any more than 20 ships is. Only thing is: you need to do one more STF. And another. Watch the cooldowns if you don't want to run the gamut. And if that is the only challenging part, getting it into three days or so, I would say that challenge is not welcome to me. Even less the 2000 version.
The Endeavour will never be challenging in gameplay terms, at least not to the advanced player with good equipment and an understanding of the game. Unless you really turn it up to eleven (Win an elite queue using only white Mk II gear on your starting ship), in which case it won't be a system aimed at everybody anymore.
So the way I understand it, the intention of the system is to show players places they haven't seen yet or forgotten about (Defera), introduce elements of the game (Foundry), show that there is more than one build (Polaron) - the latter certainly will be news to many of the build advisers in zone chat. (OTOH: taking build ideas from Cryptic is a double edged sword, we all know the builds they provide with a new ship or on the missions where you take over a different ship).
In this I also do not think that it is designed to get new players, more like encouraging the older ones to explore. Whether or not this will succeed, only time will tell, but I think the idea of "giving them something to do to play for hours" (like a 2000 challenge) would work less for the majority of the people. Especially those who don't play enough from the Cryptic viewpoint. Because the ones killing 2000 cubes by rotating queues are probably the same players as those already spending a lot of their time in game, they just would do it somewhere else. (Or even in the same queues, considering how many people run multiple ISAs per day)
Naturally, it does depends on what the system is aimed at. As a "hey look, this exists" -pointer it certainly works as is. As a kinda-sorta-but-not-quite login bonus it works. But the rewards aren't high enough to get players to really go out of their way to do them, nor are the tasks themselves particularly interesting or entertaining by themselves.
Killing 2,000 ships instead of 20 would perhaps be just a matter of time, but when combined with a unique reward it would be interesting to do. And more than that, there are more than numbers to consider. A task could be something like kill X different types of ship and you'd actually have to think where to go next to find something new. Or it could say, "kill every type of borg ground and space unit in the game once" and you'd have to find one of each. Instead of "run this queue X times," a task could say "run X different queues once" or even "run every queue in the game once." And so on. But none of those work if the general level of the tasks is limited to "5 minutes zero risk zero thought."
And with tiers, it would still work as the "look here" -sign and pseudo-login bonus, but with harder challenges to also motivate players who want to play more than 5 minutes.
A "do X different thing of type Y" would certainly be a good idea in my book, I can get fully behind that ("all" queues in 3 days would be too much though).
As for the "log in bonus" appellation: it differs. "Kill 20 space borg" certainly is. "Do 25k polaron damage" would be - if you actually have polaron weapons. I assume that you could, worst case scenario, find some weapon of any kind lying somewhere in the bank, quickly change layout and merrily blast away, but not everybody can.
And I don't know whether it is intended as a content pointer, but even if it wasn't it works. I've seen people ask questions about how to fulfill tasks that IMO everybody should know - but apparently doesn't. Like "where do I find type X of enemy?".
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
As for the "log in bonus" appellation: it differs. "Kill 20 space borg" certainly is. "Do 25k polaron damage" would be - if you actually have polaron weapons. I assume that you could, worst case scenario, find some weapon of any kind lying somewhere in the bank, quickly change layout and merrily blast away, but not everybody can.
All base weapon types are found on the exchange with prices barely above vendor.
I'm enjoying the endeavour system so far. I didn't do every one that came up so far, but I got quite some bonus. It even got me to go to Nimbus III today, which I haven't done since I got the fan dance.
On a side note: I'd like to see a "Dancing Queen" (anyone remember ABBA?) accolade and title after a certain number of doing the dance contest.
Comments
People used to go there but the Tzenkethi Battle zone is ugly and uninspiring. They put absolutely no effort in it and besides, only well made adv and elite ships can play it. Compared to other BZs it sucks. However, since season 13 nerf the entire game is dead. Everybody left. The game lost 80% of their customers. Just look at the queue system, it is full of 0s and 1s. Last year at this time is was packed, you would wait 30 seconds foe any queue, now you are lucky if you wait 30 mins and that is if you get 3 or 4 people. It is a graveyard out there and the sad part is that they don't listen to what their customers are saying.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
The rewards are a little on the low side in comparison to the tasks you need to do. Yes, many of the tasks are stupid easy and the rewards should reflect that. However, if you want to give old content a fresh look, Cryptic should really consider sweetening the deal. I only go after the endeavors which I know for a fact I can knock out in 5-10 minutes tops, and requires the least amount of effort on my part. If Cryptic is fine with me doing that, cool. But if they want me to complete a Temporal Mission from the arc, or kill 20 Terran Ground NPCs, the amount of time and effort I'd spend doing content that'd give me completion would be better spent elsewhere.
If you want more participation, you need to give players a reason to do these endeavors each and every time, rather than only when they're convenient. I think the Endeavor system is a great addition to the game, but given the cooldown timer, and the fact you only need to do it once per account, I think there's some room for a payout improvement since this isn't a game mechanic that can be endlessly spammed or abused by an account.
It really needs severe improvement on the rewards front. Preferably unique items, but at the very least guaranteed dil/marks. I've gotten enough boxes with nothing but EC and/or cheap crafting mats in them that I'm just about ready to end the experiment that was the Endeavor system and join the people asking for option to hide the indicator from my screen, permanently.
And more involved tasks would be nice too. Like that 20 enemies task, could use an extra 0 at the end. Or a possibility, tiered rewards where you'd get a little something at 20, something better at 200 and something really good for 2,000...
I will get on board for increasing the rewards within the same categories that they already have, increasing the frequency of the tasks, or some combination of the two.
I don't have a particular comment about the level of rewards, since I'm doing them more as "something new to do".
The one thing that seems a bit "off" to me is that Endeavors are at the account level, although I understand the reasons for making them so.
For example tier 1 needs 25k damage of type , T2 50k and T3 needs 100K
Cirran
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
I'm also not going to rant about how terrible one is when it requires me to use 2 cents worth of refined dilithium. I, and many others here, have used far more refined dilithium to upgrade something into garbage that might not even return the EC that you could get from the contents of 5 Normal R&D boxes, so I can keep it in perspective.
My character Tsin'xing
Without challenge, it's just a chore you do because they pay you. In pretend money.
My character Tsin'xing
In the Tholian Red Alert they usually go for the Capital Ships first and there are usually two or three Support Groups left after the Capitals. Today, they were going for the Support Groups first so 5 of 5 before the Capitals.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
Yes, some of these are stupidly easy (the "Polaron type 20k one" I did with a toon having only an omni and a back facing beam array of it on its rainbow, still got it after 1.5 mobs in Borg Red Alert). But if it's meant to be to give you a sniff into something instead of a real challenge, that works for me. The name "endeavor" though wouldn't be as fitting in that instance.
We do something very differntly apparently. I have 18 toons and need way less time. Still enough to not make it daily but only when I feel like it, granted, but 3 mins per toon for admiralty, maybe 5 if I also take in rewards and have to cope with the "fallout" (like starting a prisoner doff mission on KDF or airlocking prisoners on Fed). Less on doffing. Again granted, I do not really optimize. But 8 toons should be an hour tops - still too much for a daily, because as you stated you are not really playing the game, just gathering rewards.
Indeed, time will tell. For now though my fleet is very excited, way more than I am. And even I really consider it a plus. Probably we all are in our respective bubbles when trying to guesstimate what will happen. But as long as it is enough to fill up a small amount of battlezones or queues, that may carry a long way.
One thing I have been taught by other players is that not everybody is in the hundreds of billions, because not everybody is running dailies. So 450k ain't that much, but coming in at regular intervals will maybe help you get your 15 million on the exchange console couple of days sooner. Very welcome. Oh, and nobody doing the "Tour the Galaxy" should complain about that.
Gotta disagree here. Yes, just clicking admiralty is more of a job than a game. But not every "challenge" is welcome. Especially if said challenge means only grinding more. "200 ships in time frame" feels a lot more like a job to me than 20. Yes, it needs organization and involvement, but so does my job. I like me a challenge, even if it comes to games, now and again and will work towards it, but for three times a week that'd be a bit much.
But what is a "better reward"? If you only mean "100 marks instead of 50", I may follow. If you're talking about dil vs. marks vs. ec vs. mats, I won't. Some people have more dil than they can refine and would love marks. Some already turn their marks into dil.
On the other hand, 20 ships is practically a login bonus. Which isn't a bad thing, but it isn't really interesting either.
Which is why I said having them tiered would be nice...your little 20 ship login bonus, 200 for the trying-my-best-here tier and then 2,000 ships for the top tier challenge. Or something like that.
The main point is that the top challenge should be something exceptional, that the average player DOESN'T expect to be successful in "three times a week."
Of course, that was just an example derived from the existing endeavor templates. Ideally the challenges should be something more interesting. But alas, there aren't that many activities in STO that are in and of themselves challenging, so barring new content all I have to suggest is bigger numbers.
Precisely. So it isn't a gameplay challenge any more than 20 ships is. Only thing is: you need to do one more STF. And another. Watch the cooldowns if you don't want to run the gamut. And if that is the only challenging part, getting it into three days or so, I would say that challenge is not welcome to me. Even less the 2000 version.
The Endeavour will never be challenging in gameplay terms, at least not to the advanced player with good equipment and an understanding of the game. Unless you really turn it up to eleven (Win an elite queue using only white Mk II gear on your starting ship), in which case it won't be a system aimed at everybody anymore.
So the way I understand it, the intention of the system is to show players places they haven't seen yet or forgotten about (Defera), introduce elements of the game (Foundry), show that there is more than one build (Polaron) - the latter certainly will be news to many of the build advisers in zone chat. (OTOH: taking build ideas from Cryptic is a double edged sword, we all know the builds they provide with a new ship or on the missions where you take over a different ship).
In this I also do not think that it is designed to get new players, more like encouraging the older ones to explore. Whether or not this will succeed, only time will tell, but I think the idea of "giving them something to do to play for hours" (like a 2000 challenge) would work less for the majority of the people. Especially those who don't play enough from the Cryptic viewpoint. Because the ones killing 2000 cubes by rotating queues are probably the same players as those already spending a lot of their time in game, they just would do it somewhere else. (Or even in the same queues, considering how many people run multiple ISAs per day)
Killing 2,000 ships instead of 20 would perhaps be just a matter of time, but when combined with a unique reward it would be interesting to do. And more than that, there are more than numbers to consider. A task could be something like kill X different types of ship and you'd actually have to think where to go next to find something new. Or it could say, "kill every type of borg ground and space unit in the game once" and you'd have to find one of each. Instead of "run this queue X times," a task could say "run X different queues once" or even "run every queue in the game once." And so on. But none of those work if the general level of the tasks is limited to "5 minutes zero risk zero thought."
And with tiers, it would still work as the "look here" -sign and pseudo-login bonus, but with harder challenges to also motivate players who want to play more than 5 minutes.
As for the "log in bonus" appellation: it differs. "Kill 20 space borg" certainly is. "Do 25k polaron damage" would be - if you actually have polaron weapons. I assume that you could, worst case scenario, find some weapon of any kind lying somewhere in the bank, quickly change layout and merrily blast away, but not everybody can.
And I don't know whether it is intended as a content pointer, but even if it wasn't it works. I've seen people ask questions about how to fulfill tasks that IMO everybody should know - but apparently doesn't. Like "where do I find type X of enemy?".
On a side note: I'd like to see a "Dancing Queen" (anyone remember ABBA?) accolade and title after a certain number of doing the dance contest.