Siding with Klingons - a Romulan dilemma

dogmaticus · July 2017

My friends,

I am a big fan of the Romulans, and obviously Star Trek in general, and a fan of Star Trek Online in particular

. Due to all those loves I am currently thinking of levelling a Romulan captain, especially that I got another T6 23rd century ship, and this time want to use it as T'Liss rather than Constitution class.

Having said that - I am torn between the Klingon side, and the Federation. I ALWAYS played the Federation. I enjoy it, I empathize with their values, and I love seeing Romulans reunited with Vulcans. But at the same time - Klingons with their attachment to traditions, customs and honor seem more suited for a Romulan captain as allies. Yes - we've had our differences... yes the Klingon influence and domination was strong in 23rd century (which is where my liberated Romulan Borg captain will come from... mainly through Borg-caused longevity), and yes there was the Khitomer "incident", but I believe in this new world the Republic should lean towards the Klingons and rebuilding its former strength and glory. Sela might be mad, but she's not all wrong... and the "let's all hold hands" Federation approach doesn't seem fully suited to Romulan way of life.

So basically that's what I'm thinking of - creating a captain to join Klingons... how does it feel however? What is it like to play on the Klingon side? Do the missions differ by much? How's the Foundry content? And what do you all think in general of Romulans allying with Klingons?

Thanks... and sorry for the loooong post

.

artan42 · July 2017

It's the Romulan Republic not the Star Empire, however I think it only makes sense it allies with the Federation. It's made up of a lot of reunificationists and farmers, so the Federation is a much better fit.

The only time Klingons would allied with Romulans is in preparation to conquer them (or during the Dominion War), Cryptic dropped the ball there. The KE of STO is no different to that of DS9 or TNG and there's no reason for it to play nice with the weak RR or the crumbling RSE.

spiritborn · July 2017

artan42 wrote: »

It's the Romulan Republic not the Star Empire, however I think it only makes sense it allies with the Federation. It's made up of a lot of reunificationists and farmers, so the Federation is a much better fit.

The only time Klingons would allied with Romulans is in preparation to conquer them (or during the Dominion War), Cryptic dropped the ball there. The KE of STO is no different to that of DS9 or TNG and there's no reason for it to play nice with the weak RR or the crumbling RSE.

I could mentally justify klingons playing nice with Romulans at the moment as being too weak to fight both UFP and romulans at the same time, also thr re-unificationist had fairly sizeble fleet even before the player joined them and by practical end of the KE/UFP war (aka when the joint missions start) the Romulan Republic is much stronger and by the time the actual peace treaty has been the republic is gained much if not most of the strenght of the Star Empire.

Also smart klingons (yes they do exist) know that fighting someone for the sake of fighting someone will lead only to a dishonorble defeat "to end a battle to save an empire is no defeat" and "to win a battle but loose an empire is no victory" after all. So it's not really out of character for the klingons to support the Romulan Republic, not unless the stereotypical image of brainless brute obsessed with fighting is the only way you can picture a klingon.

dogmaticus · July 2017

I must say that for the moment all your comments unfortunately resonate with my own doubts in terms of Klingon-Romulan alliance; not to mention the fact, that Fed side is simply easier for me to get into the character;

artan42 · July 2017

spiritborn wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

It's the Romulan Republic not the Star Empire, however I think it only makes sense it allies with the Federation. It's made up of a lot of reunificationists and farmers, so the Federation is a much better fit.

The only time Klingons would allied with Romulans is in preparation to conquer them (or during the Dominion War), Cryptic dropped the ball there. The KE of STO is no different to that of DS9 or TNG and there's no reason for it to play nice with the weak RR or the crumbling RSE.

I could mentally justify klingons playing nice with Romulans at the moment as being too weak to fight both UFP and romulans at the same time, also thr re-unificationist had fairly sizeble fleet even before the player joined them and by practical end of the KE/UFP war (aka when the joint missions start) the Romulan Republic is much stronger and by the time the actual peace treaty has been the republic is gained much if not most of the strenght of the Star Empire.

Also smart klingons (yes they do exist) know that fighting someone for the sake of fighting someone will lead only to a dishonorble defeat "to end a battle to save an empire is no defeat" and "to win a battle but loose an empire is no victory" after all. So it's not really out of character for the klingons to support the Romulan Republic, not unless the stereotypical image of brainless brute obsessed with fighting is the only way you can picture a klingon.

Jampok was quite happy to fight the Undine and Federation at the same time, along with the Breen, Tholians, and Borg. All of which pose a much bigger threat than the RR. Also, unlike the Federation, the KE doesn't gain anything from an alliance with the RR. It's also inconceivable the KE hasn't taken over Sela's RSE, Taris' Renement, or Haakevee's Tal Shiar teratiories now they're depowered. It's not like the RR seems to be interested in them.

admiralnat · July 2017

The missions don't vary much, to be honest. Depends on which side your character would rather be allied with. That's probably it.

spiritborn · July 2017

artan42 wrote: »

spiritborn wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

It's the Romulan Republic not the Star Empire, however I think it only makes sense it allies with the Federation. It's made up of a lot of reunificationists and farmers, so the Federation is a much better fit.

The only time Klingons would allied with Romulans is in preparation to conquer them (or during the Dominion War), Cryptic dropped the ball there. The KE of STO is no different to that of DS9 or TNG and there's no reason for it to play nice with the weak RR or the crumbling RSE.

I could mentally justify klingons playing nice with Romulans at the moment as being too weak to fight both UFP and romulans at the same time, also thr re-unificationist had fairly sizeble fleet even before the player joined them and by practical end of the KE/UFP war (aka when the joint missions start) the Romulan Republic is much stronger and by the time the actual peace treaty has been the republic is gained much if not most of the strenght of the Star Empire.

Also smart klingons (yes they do exist) know that fighting someone for the sake of fighting someone will lead only to a dishonorble defeat "to end a battle to save an empire is no defeat" and "to win a battle but loose an empire is no victory" after all. So it's not really out of character for the klingons to support the Romulan Republic, not unless the stereotypical image of brainless brute obsessed with fighting is the only way you can picture a klingon.

Jampok was quite happy to fight the Undine and Federation at the same time, along with the Breen, Tholians, and Borg. All of which pose a much bigger threat than the RR. Also, unlike the Federation, the KE doesn't gain anything from an alliance with the RR. It's also inconceivable the KE hasn't taken over Sela's RSE, Taris' Renement, or Haakevee's Tal Shiar teratiories now they're depowered. It's not like the RR seems to be interested in them.

actually if you look at actual storyline actions, there's unstated ceasefire after the initial war arc, sure there's no official peace but there's also next to actual fighting between UFP and KE and even some minor co-operation during the later arcs. in effect no J'mpok was not fighting the Breen, Undine or Tholians the same time as the Federation, but rather he was happy fighting those when there was a ceasefire with the Federation meaning they wouldn't bother him. Also it's probably not blindly obvious but by the time those arcs come RR is as powerful as tholians, cardassians, the breen or other "minor" powers at very least and probably more powerful.

They're not Limited to 1 system and fleet but rather most ex-RSE systems have joined the RR and who says RR isn't intrested in those systems if there's some strategic benefit from having them, with the exception of the Rator system (aka the core of the current RSE) most the current RSE or Tal shiar systems are backwater systems with little to no importance in the grand scheme of things and for the most part claiming them would be waste of resouces better used elsewhere.

in essense anything truly important from the RSE now belongs to the Romulan Republic or is so fortified that taking it is not worth the cost.

artan42 · July 2017

spiritborn wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

spiritborn wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

It's the Romulan Republic not the Star Empire, however I think it only makes sense it allies with the Federation. It's made up of a lot of reunificationists and farmers, so the Federation is a much better fit.

The only time Klingons would allied with Romulans is in preparation to conquer them (or during the Dominion War), Cryptic dropped the ball there. The KE of STO is no different to that of DS9 or TNG and there's no reason for it to play nice with the weak RR or the crumbling RSE.

I could mentally justify klingons playing nice with Romulans at the moment as being too weak to fight both UFP and romulans at the same time, also thr re-unificationist had fairly sizeble fleet even before the player joined them and by practical end of the KE/UFP war (aka when the joint missions start) the Romulan Republic is much stronger and by the time the actual peace treaty has been the republic is gained much if not most of the strenght of the Star Empire.

Also smart klingons (yes they do exist) know that fighting someone for the sake of fighting someone will lead only to a dishonorble defeat "to end a battle to save an empire is no defeat" and "to win a battle but loose an empire is no victory" after all. So it's not really out of character for the klingons to support the Romulan Republic, not unless the stereotypical image of brainless brute obsessed with fighting is the only way you can picture a klingon.

Jampok was quite happy to fight the Undine and Federation at the same time, along with the Breen, Tholians, and Borg. All of which pose a much bigger threat than the RR. Also, unlike the Federation, the KE doesn't gain anything from an alliance with the RR. It's also inconceivable the KE hasn't taken over Sela's RSE, Taris' Renement, or Haakevee's Tal Shiar teratiories now they're depowered. It's not like the RR seems to be interested in them.

actually if you look at actual storyline actions, there's unstated ceasefire after the initial war arc, sure there's no official peace but there's also next to actual fighting between UFP and KE and even some minor co-operation during the later arcs. in effect no J'mpok was not fighting the Breen, Undine or Tholians the same time as the Federation, but rather he was happy fighting those when there was a ceasefire with the Federation meaning they wouldn't bother him. Also it's probably not blindly obvious but by the time those arcs come RR is as powerful as tholians, cardassians, the breen or other "minor" powers at very least and probably more powerful.

They're not Limited to 1 system and fleet but rather most ex-RSE systems have joined the RR and who says RR isn't intrested in those systems if there's some strategic benefit from having them, with the exception of the Rator system (aka the core of the current RSE) most the current RSE or Tal shiar systems are backwater systems with little to no importance in the grand scheme of things and for the most part claiming them would be waste of resouces better used elsewhere.

in essense anything truly important from the RSE now belongs to the Romulan Republic or is so fortified that taking it is not worth the cost.

The point of the alliance in the first place is because the RR is too week to rebuild by themselves, thus requiring the help of the Federation or the KE. It is at this point the Klingons have the advantage, not when they decide to help the RR and they then become a power. Until then, their headquarters are four Warbirds in Imperial territory.

brian334 · July 2017

Something that was never stated explicitly, but which has emerged as a central 'truth' of Klingon culture: they think of themselves as the heroes.

In every way, from a much abused code of honor to their planetary conquests, Klingon culture is about Duty, Loyalty, and Honor. You conquer a planet for resources your people need, yes, but you also do it to bring a new way of life to the conquered so they can learn to be stronger. You may enjoy a fight, but the reason you duel is to prove you stand behind your word. You serve the Empire not because it grants license to pillage and plunder, but because the Empire is the force of stability in a galaxy plagued with random danger.

As a Klingon you are Hercules fighting the lion. If you are little Johnny burning ants with a magnifying glass, there is no glory or honor. There must be a challenge that can overcome you for the fight to be a worthy one. In Klingon culture, to 'die trying' is a greater achievement than an easy victory.

Heroes don't pick fights with children; that's what bullies do. Some, even many, perhaps, have gone down that path, but they never find the glory they sought when they began. Glory only comes from fighting a foe with the power to defeat you.

Klingons have on many occasions bemoaned Romulan Treachery because Klingons don't tolerate oath breakers. A Klingon's word is his honor, and to a Klingon honor is life.

The Klingons are in a culturally transformative period right now. They have been defeated by humans over and over. Not all humans; in fact, most seem to be weak, mewling pups. But one in ten-thousand has the ability to stand up to the Empire and win over and over. These humans are greatly admired by Klingons. Klingons emulate what defeats them.

So while the Code is still the driving force behind the Empire, human values are beginning to permeate Klingon society. As all socially transformative periods experience, this is causing some degree of chaos as hardliners stick to the old ways and young upstarts demand change. Smart politicians like Jm'pok find a path between the extremes, but that too is change and compromise of the old ways.

Enter the Romulan civil war. At first glance it would appear to be an opportunity for Klingons to add a few sectors to their border territories, but there are humans watching. So what does a Klingon do?

He plays the role of hero. Humans help Romulans colonize a new homeworld? Klingons will show how to do it better. And along the way teach Romulans Duty, Loyalty, and Honor.

So, there are many reasons a loyal Romulan would side with Klingons, not the least of which is to repay a debt of blood when Klingons fought and died to save New Romulus. Klingons can teach warfare to colonies of farmers. Klingons can build and help rebuild a Romulan fleet. Klingons can stand as a balance against the Federation.

As for STO content, don't expect anything different after you join the KDF. It's all the same once you complete the origin story.

spiritborn · July 2017

brian334 wrote: »

Something that was never stated explicitly, but which has emerged as a central 'truth' of Klingon culture: they think of themselves as the heroes.

In every way, from a much abused code of honor to their planetary conquests, Klingon culture is about Duty, Loyalty, and Honor. You conquer a planet for resources your people need, yes, but you also do it to bring a new way of life to the conquered so they can learn to be stronger. You may enjoy a fight, but the reason you duel is to prove you stand behind your word. You serve the Empire not because it grants license to pillage and plunder, but because the Empire is the force of stability in a galaxy plagued with random danger.

As a Klingon you are Hercules fighting the lion. If you are little Johnny burning ants with a magnifying glass, there is no glory or honor. There must be a challenge that can overcome you for the fight to be a worthy one. In Klingon culture, to 'die trying' is a greater achievement than an easy victory.

Heroes don't pick fights with children; that's what bullies do. Some, even many, perhaps, have gone down that path, but they never find the glory they sought when they began. Glory only comes from fighting a foe with the power to defeat you.

Klingons have on many occasions bemoaned Romulan Treachery because Klingons don't tolerate oath breakers. A Klingon's word is his honor, and to a Klingon honor is life.

The Klingons are in a culturally transformative period right now. They have been defeated by humans over and over. Not all humans; in fact, most seem to be weak, mewling pups. But one in ten-thousand has the ability to stand up to the Empire and win over and over. These humans are greatly admired by Klingons. Klingons emulate what defeats them.

So while the Code is still the driving force behind the Empire, human values are beginning to permeate Klingon society. As all socially transformative periods experience, this is causing some degree of chaos as hardliners stick to the old ways and young upstarts demand change. Smart politicians like Jm'pok find a path between the extremes, but that too is change and compromise of the old ways.

Enter the Romulan civil war. At first glance it would appear to be an opportunity for Klingons to add a few sectors to their border territories, but there are humans watching. So what does a Klingon do?

He plays the role of hero. Humans help Romulans colonize a new homeworld? Klingons will show how to do it better. And along the way teach Romulans Duty, Loyalty, and Honor.

So, there are many reasons a loyal Romulan would side with Klingons, not the least of which is to repay a debt of blood when Klingons fought and died to save New Romulus. Klingons can teach warfare to colonies of farmers. Klingons can build and help rebuild a Romulan fleet. Klingons can stand as a balance against the Federation.

As for STO content, don't expect anything different after you join the KDF. It's all the same once you complete the origin story.

This is really good way of showing what people seem to be missing about the Klingon culture, thanks for that Brian.

One shouldn't think of klingon warriors as these brainless brutes that go "hulk smash" at everything, but more like medival knights or feudal era samurai, sure they fight a lot and aren't the most merciful people but they want to see themselves as the heroes of the story and won't intentionally do anything that would clearly be counter of that image.

artan42 · July 2017

Nah. Klingons are also missing that. It's clear you've never seen the ENT, TOS films, TNG or DS9. Honour is nothing but lipservice to the Empire. They've never been portrayed as anything other than pragmatic but blustering.

jonsills · July 2017

And how often do we live up to our highly-vaunted ideals? It's easy to mouth the words, harder to live them, and you can see this in action every day right outside your window (or on the evening news, if you live on the upper floors and don't actually see anyone outside your window).

I've taken one Romulan through the Klingon side, because he was furious on discovering the Tal'Shiar allied with the alien monsters who destroyed his home on Virinat, and because only the Klingons were interested in helping him pursue vengeance. It's a matter of roleplaying, not any real difference in the missions - you get Klink-tinged flavor text on some missions, but mostly it's filtered through Republic High Command, and D'tan doesn't give a nanov's tentacle about your "revenge".

Other hand, that's even true of the Klink missions above a certain level - once you've cleared the Klingon-specific goals (not saying more in order to avoid spoilers for new players), they're the same missions everyone else gets, just given to you by a Klingon instead of a Trill or a Romulan.

jorantomalak · July 2017

what you all fail to relis is both the empire and federation are using the RR as a buffer state, and the roms are using this fact to manipulate both as in if the klinks invade the feds come to the roms aid and get them as exclusive allies, same said for the feds if they invaded.

brian334 · July 2017

jorantomalak wrote: »

what you all fail to relis is both the empire and federation are using the RR as a buffer state, and the roms are using this fact to manipulate both as in if the klinks invade the feds come to the roms aid and get them as exclusive allies, same said for the feds if they invaded.

In political circles this is called detente.

jonsills · July 2017

jorantomalak wrote: »

what you all fail to relis is both the empire and federation are using the RR as a buffer state, and the roms are using this fact to manipulate both as in if the klinks invade the feds come to the roms aid and get them as exclusive allies, same said for the feds if they invaded.

That is in fact D'tan's stated reasoning behind the "dual alliance" thing - at the time the Republic declares itself the Feds and Klinks are still technically at war, and D'tan knows that if either side wants to use his turf to attack the other (and several of their worlds would make good beachheads), the nascent Republic Fleet doesn't have nearly enough strength to fight them off. He's going to need the assistance of their opponents. And he doesn't trust either side to have the best interests of the Romulans at heart, no matter what bluster their diplomats might spill.

D'tan might have been able to tell Machiavelli a few things...

antonine3258 · July 2017

jorantomalak wrote: »

what you all fail to relis is both the empire and federation are using the RR as a buffer state, and the roms are using this fact to manipulate both as in if the klinks invade the feds come to the roms aid and get them as exclusive allies, same said for the feds if they invaded.

Oh yeah, with just enough Romulan tech to sweeten the pot to both sides. D'tan swung an excellent deal.

Actually, that's one good reason to work with the Klingons: they're centers of power are closer to New Romulus than the Federation's. D'Tan notes the Federation have the industrial and civilian industry the Republic needs to get NR off the ground, but the Klingon's proximity means they need the Empire's buy-off so the Federation's convoys aren't juicy targets to Klingon privateers.

So a character could have a trading background or respects (or even sparred with) Klingon military in the region, and works to help reinforce those ties instead of a distant, patronizing Federation that stood by and did nothing as the Empire collapsed into chaos, as one example.

Or another - the Tal Shiar find the Klingon political system easier to manipulate and infiltrate, working with the KDF helps weaken the Republic's most dire enemy.

(My main is a Fed-Rom, though, just for the record)

markhawkman · July 2017

Most fun I've ever had in game? Going to Grethor and slapping Molor around as a Romulan.

You can't do that Fed-side

legendarylycan · July 2017

you can't do that with ANYONE, because slapping molor isn't an interact or dialogue option

spiritborn · July 2017

artan42 wrote: »

Nah. Klingons are also missing that. It's clear you've never seen the ENT, TOS films, TNG or DS9. Honour is nothing but lipservice to the Empire. They've never been portrayed as anything other than pragmatic but blustering.

It's not a lipservice, it's an ideal, kind of like "knight in shining armor" is an ideal. Something that's made very clear in TNG is that open "dishonor" is something no klingon wants to face. That's one of the reason they helped the Romulan Republic and didn't just zerg rush them.

A high ranking member of the RRN sacrificed himself to protect a high ranking klingon, to invade Romulan Republic space after that would be to essentially to publically declare "TRIBBLE honor, we be bad guys!" and that's something no klingon wants to do, they might plot and play politics but it's always behind closed doors.

EDIT:don't mistake what we the viewers/players see as what in-universe general public sees and that I would say is the genius of the Romulan Republic leaders, they manipulated the situation(partly helped By Sela being less then intelligent in that conference) in such a way that neither UFP nor the Klingon Empire could invade Romulan Republic space without publically loosing face and thus loosing support from allies and the homefront.

Remember that it's not so long ago that Gowron nearly ruined the Empire for personal gain so J'mpok would want to avoid at all cost as being seen doing that.

alexmakepeace · July 2017

I don't have too much to add to the discussion topic, but I just wanted to share that I misread the topic title, and it conjured an amusing image...

"Singing with Klingons: A Romulan Dilemma."

starswordc · July 2017

dogmaticus wrote: »

My friends,

I am a big fan of the Romulans, and obviously Star Trek in general, and a fan of Star Trek Online in particular . Due to all those loves I am currently thinking of levelling a Romulan captain, especially that I got another T6 23rd century ship, and this time want to use it as T'Liss rather than Constitution class.

Having said that - I am torn between the Klingon side, and the Federation. I ALWAYS played the Federation. I enjoy it, I empathize with their values, and I love seeing Romulans reunited with Vulcans. But at the same time - Klingons with their attachment to traditions, customs and honor seem more suited for a Romulan captain as allies. Yes - we've had our differences... yes the Klingon influence and domination was strong in 23rd century (which is where my liberated Romulan Borg captain will come from... mainly through Borg-caused longevity), and yes there was the Khitomer "incident", but I believe in this new world the Republic should lean towards the Klingons and rebuilding its former strength and glory. Sela might be mad, but she's not all wrong... and the "let's all hold hands" Federation approach doesn't seem fully suited to Romulan way of life.

So basically that's what I'm thinking of - creating a captain to join Klingons... how does it feel however? What is it like to play on the Klingon side? Do the missions differ by much? How's the Foundry content? And what do you all think in general of Romulans allying with Klingons?

Thanks... and sorry for the loooong post .

There's two big problems with your theory, and they come straight from the game's own backstory material, The Path to 2409:

The most recent major interaction between the three powers happened in the aftermath of Hobus. The Federation (and several allied states such as the Cardassian Union) dropped everything and sent every iota of humanitarian aid they could spare. Whereas the Klingons, led by J'mpok personally, thought it was a perfect opportunity to launch an invasion. And by the way, J'mpok's incompetence as a military leader led directly to Taris's ascension to Romulan Imperial chief of state: while the various surviving Romulan planets were arguing over who should lead the Empire, she put together a fleet of surviving warbirds that kicked that warmongering petaQ's moqDu' up between his ears.
The game leans hard on Diane Duane's licensed fiction about the Romulans (Rihannsu, Vulcan's Heart, Vulcan's Soul) to fill in the considerable gaps in the TV canon. The Romulan sense of honor and tradition here, mnhei'sahe, is very different from the Klingons' nigh-exclusive focus on external honor (quv in Klingonese, as opposed to batlh, internal honor focused on dignity and personal integrity). It's very Roman, focused on family and saving face, as well as being a form of enlightened self-interest where you're expected to consider the effect of your actions on others as well as yourself.

And when you factor in the strong Vulcan-Romulan Unificationist bent of much of the Republic's leadership, there really is very little logical reason for the Republic to be friendly with the Klingons other than the simple fact that, until an actual armistice is inked between the Feds and Klingons after "Surface Tension", their survival depends on their political neutrality between them (think Finland during the Cold War).

artan42 · July 2017

spiritborn wrote: »

It's not a lipservice, it's an ideal, kind of like "knight in shining armor" is an ideal.

No it's not. An ideal is something to be lived up to, lipservice is an excuse. It's the latter every single Klingon in all of the shows (except TOS/TAS who don't even care) uses to excuse whatever they feel like doing at the time. Sure Gorkon, Worf, Martok and a tiny handful of individuals may practice what they preach but the majority of all Klingons in the shows as well as the political forces representing them are not the honourable samurai of fans headcanons, but rather pragmatic vikings, who will trumpet about honour whilst raiding monasteries.

jonsills · July 2017

Artan, before being too hard on the Klingons, maybe you should read up on how the actual samurai behaved...

legendarylycan · July 2017

yeah, if anyone thinks actual samurai were in any way honorable - in the general sense of the term, not their interpretation of it - well...i have some nice beachfront property along the ganges river i'd like to sell them

artan42 · July 2017

jonsills wrote: »

Artan, before being too hard on the Klingons, maybe you should read up on how the actual samurai behaved...

Oh I don't so much have a romanticise them as know almost nothing about them. The Far East is a closed book to me.

warmaker001b · July 2017

shadowfang240 wrote: »

yeah, if anyone thinks actual samurai were in any way honorable - in the general sense of the term, not their interpretation of it - well...i have some nice beachfront property along the ganges river i'd like to sell them

Feudal Japanese history is full of betrayal. How often it occurs is just mind-boggling.

You had numerous leaders turn coat because it was practical. You cannot talk about the Sengoku Jidai and not read about turn coats and betrayal for every part of the story.

markhawkman · July 2017

My take on Samurai honor was that it was focused on your relationship with your daimyo(a feudal warlord). Which typically meant it had little to do with morality and was primarily a measure of how well you followed orders.

As for why my characters did it... Emani actually hates Klingons, but thinks that being close to them would be the best way to keep an eye on them. And also... she likes breaking up fights between drunken Klingons. It gives her an excuse to show the Klingons what Borg strength is like.

Zdakek is a Reman and likes the aesthetics of Klingon stuff.

thunderfoot · July 2017

My Rommie Engineer, T'Cael, went Red Side. I had no intentions of even coming close to RPing him. But after I wrote his bio, it just sorta happened. Not to the extent some do, but I felt compelled to have a rational explanation for his choice which was based upon common sense and the way the factions are portrayed in the game.

I think the Klingon Empire within STO is a closer match for the Mongols of Kublai's time.

brian334 · July 2017

thunderfoot006 wrote: »

My Rommie Engineer, T'Cael, went Red Side. I had no intentions of even coming close to RPing him. But after I wrote his bio, it just sorta happened. Not to the extent some do, but I felt compelled to have a rational explanation for his choice which was based upon common sense and the way the factions are portrayed in the game.

I think the Klingon Empire within STO is a closer match for the Mongols of Kublai's time.

Interesting take, and it fits with the makeup and uniforms of TOS Klingons. They were supposed to be barbarian hordes come to conquer civilization.

thunderfoot · July 2017

The Mongols of Kublai's time were anything but barbarians. They had a culture, society and a history which went back for a very long way. They adopted the parts of the civilizations they conquered which they liked or found useful and discarded the rest. They also had the concept of honor we see as part of the Klingons in Star Trek from TNG forward. But they did not let it go to their heads or control their interactions with others. They were pragmatists who decided founding an Empire was neccessary. Subjugated peoples were allowed to live as they chose, as long as it did not conflict with Mongol rule. I've always thought the 'Klingons are Samurai In Space' idea does not fit exactly. The 'Klingons are really Mongols In Space' does not fit perfectly either. But it does come a lot closer to Klingons as we see them portrayed in STO.

Of course this is just one man's viewpoint. I'm not claiming this is the One True Fact nor am I going to waste time trying to convince others. I like to think of Star Trek fandom as a very large tent which has ample room for all the viewpoints and interpretations. Other fans may disagree with me. But they are still Star Trek fans. To discount or belittle their views on this subject discounts and belittles the rest of us as well.

Siding with Klingons - a Romulan dilemma

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