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Next Season: Civil War!

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    velquavelqua Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    I saw this and thought it was about the current political climate in the US.

    I don't see a reason for any of the factions to be in any type of internal conflict at the moment. There is the House of Targ or Torg that could still pose a threat, but at this point, I doubt they are even worth concerning ourselves about. That being said, there is the possibility of a Civil War among the Kentari and a greater war with the Lukari. That could be a possibility, but we still haven't dealt with the Tzenkethi and their reason for getting rid of the crystals and what are the true meaning of the crystals. I hope we don't have to wait until Season 20.
    18662390068_f716cd60e3.jpg
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    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    We still haven't dealt with the Elachi, for that matter. While they attacked Republic worlds, there is no evidence they attacked loyal Empire worlds. With information screened by officers loyal to the Empire, the majority of Romulans in RSE territory may not even know about the attacks, or if they do they have heard a revised version of the story. Who knows? They might think the whole outlandish tale of sentient motile mushrooms a product of Federation propaganda.

    I agree that the remnant RSE could not sustain a war, but that would not be their goal. Their goal would be to use distractions caused by the Klingon Rebel Houses to snatch a few prizes and extend their power knowing the Republic and Federation would not assault fortified and populated worlds, potentially causing millions of civilian casualties.

    *edited a blog about siezing power in the collapse of empire and carving out a new power base*

    George Washington, Mustapha Kermal, and D'Tan did exactly what I described above. While the great powers around them were distracted by other problems they carved out a power base for themselves and made the cost of reconquering it too high. In this kind of war the goal is not to destroy your enemy on the battlefield, but to stalemate him on the battlefield while you consolidate power within your territory.

    Empires may collapse slowly or they may implode suddenly, but the aftermath spins out for years to come. Even the American Colonies had growing pains, not the least of which was the American Civil War in which a dying remnant of displaced nobility attempted to sieze power and ignited a war that lasted four years. By the book, those guys should have known they couldn't win, but their choice was to quietly fade away or to make one last grab for power.

    Can the RSE win a war against the Alliance? Not in a million years. But not trying ensures defeat, and their goal would be stalemate and detente, not to crush the Alliance. All successful rebellions start out this way. Even D'Tan's.


    Some points of clarification:

    The Republic was desperate for aid against the RSE, and subsequently fought a war against the Elachi, the Iconians, and the disruptions which followed. While D'Tan was focused on the various galactic threats, what were the remnant RSE forces, which had been superior to D'Tan's forces, doing?

    Sela and Hakeev were powerful faction leaders in the RSE, but they were not the RSE. They are now gone, but where does the idea that their fall took the RSE with them come from? So far as I can see, huge chunks of the map remain in RSE control even if it is a broken power.

    So far in game we've only seen two Republic worlds: Verinat and New Romulus. Where do we see the formerly loyal Empire worlds joining the Republic? So far as I can see, the Republic is composed of worlds settled by refugees. The RSE was composed of many worlds; it was the equal to the Federation. While it is conceivable that many Empire worlds joined the Republic, I haven't seen that in game or read about it in blogs.
    Post edited by brian334 on
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,109 Arc User
    We still haven't dealt with the Elachi, for that matter.

    Where were these guys during the Iconian War? That was the perfect time to bring them back.
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    We still haven't dealt with the Elachi, for that matter.

    Where were these guys during the Iconian War? That was the perfect time to bring them back.

    fixing the station we trashed in What's Left Behind?

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • Options
    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    Apparently both the Elachi and the RSE are still powerful enough to make attacks this weekend.
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    lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,848 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    Apparently both the Elachi and the RSE are still powerful enough to make attacks this weekend.

    And I just killed the same Borg Queen for my 35th time! >.>
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    roborobin96roborobin96 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    Apparently both the Elachi and the RSE are still powerful enough to make attacks this weekend.

    Do you really think the PvE queues matter to the storyline?
    830px-Vesta_side.jpg

    Who's the prettiest of them all?
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    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    Apparently both the Elachi and the RSE are still powerful enough to make attacks this weekend.

    Do you really think the PvE queues matter to the storyline?

    I really need to learn to use emojis. That was supposed to be funny.
  • Options
    roborobin96roborobin96 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    brian334 wrote: »
    Apparently both the Elachi and the RSE are still powerful enough to make attacks this weekend.

    Do you really think the PvE queues matter to the storyline?

    I really need to learn to use emojis. That was supposed to be funny.

    Oh. Sorry for the snappy response, then.

    830px-Vesta_side.jpg

    Who's the prettiest of them all?
  • Options
    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    I don't bring my feelings to the forums so, "No blood, no foul."

    But I'd like to thank those who helped shape the basic idea. It seems my storyline needs to represent the RSE part differently. By making it clear that small militant forces are only remnants clinging to a glory myth of Empire it could work. Perhaps rival fleets support contenders or pretenders to the throne and Romulan worlds get caught in the crossfire.

    And to those who have other ideas or priorities, I hope your ideas are brought in as well.
  • Options
    jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »

    I'll have to second the wealth of posters saying that the RSE plot you've outlined doesn't work. It's RONC deficient.

    R.ule
    O.f
    N.atural
    C.onsequences

    here's why; The RSE isn't viable-the Tal'Shiar is leaderless and grasping, Sela (their option two) is imprisoned and not trying to escape, their resources might be vast, or they might not, but autocratic systems don't survive long without an autocrat or 'strongman' and the strongest 'strongman' on the Romulan board is D'tan.

    and he's a proven winner-Romulan forces under his control have reclaimed signiicant glory and resources, respectability and power. this is significantly different from a situation like the post-Czarist pre-Soviet russia, which was beaten and demoralized-his republic is strong, and there's no Lenin in the wings poised to take advantage of weakness.

    Exactly this. As the Chinese would say...D'Tan has the Mandate of Heaven.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »

    I'll have to second the wealth of posters saying that the RSE plot you've outlined doesn't work. It's RONC deficient.

    R.ule
    O.f
    N.atural
    C.onsequences

    here's why; The RSE isn't viable-the Tal'Shiar is leaderless and grasping, Sela (their option two) is imprisoned and not trying to escape, their resources might be vast, or they might not, but autocratic systems don't survive long without an autocrat or 'strongman' and the strongest 'strongman' on the Romulan board is D'tan.

    and he's a proven winner-Romulan forces under his control have reclaimed signiicant glory and resources, respectability and power. this is significantly different from a situation like the post-Czarist pre-Soviet russia, which was beaten and demoralized-his republic is strong, and there's no Lenin in the wings poised to take advantage of weakness.

    Exactly this. As the Chinese would say...D'Tan has the Mandate of Heaven.

    until they get attacked by the kreegan​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
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    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    With the most powerful leaders of the Great Houses and the Romulan Star Empire wiped out in the Iconian storyline, we're left with power vacuums all over the Beta Quadrant. One thing both cultures have in common is their attachment to strong leaders, and in the absence of such leadership, both devolve into infighting and fratricide until clear victors emerge to assume the leadership roles. Therefore it is a logical development that both erupt in interfactional conflict.

    With the RSE a fractured fragment of its former glory, there will be those who want to make one final attempt to sieze control of the remnants of the Empire with the goal of reconquering the Republic rebels

    With at least six heads of great houses assassinated, it is certain that second sons and cousins will think themselves more suited to lead than the obvious heirs, and plan accordingly, while other great houses whose goals were restricted by the might of the council may see opportunities to attain power in the council or feel free to ignore the Council.

    With destabilization everywhere, the Federation will see opportunities to pick off minor race worlds or border worlds which have suffered neglect by their faction. Federation aid and protection would allow them greater autonomy internally than either empire allowed, and offer external security neither can provide, which will result in very angry empires.

    Meanwhile, if the Alliance is to be preserved, the spread of the conflict will have to be arrested.

    So, the stage is set for the development team to work on updating the existing assets rather than creating wholly new enemies and vessels. With the expansion focused on the efforts of The Alliance to minimize the damage, there would not need to be three storylines, but work on factional ship upgrades and Alpha/Beta Quadrant bugs and issues could be a major selling point.

    This is my outline, but understandably yours will be different:

    BLOG: The factional leaders of The Alliance hold a subspace teleconference discussing the problems and they agree to maintain the Alliance, set the ground rules for Alliance actions in their various territories, and appoint a three member Joint Alliance Command Staff to both advise the as yet unappointed leader of the stabilizing force and to keep the leadership of their factions informed.

    Episode 1: The Spark
    Succession issues among several Great Houses erupt into violence as supporters of one candidate or another attempt to improve their position by eliminating the competition. While such disruptions are not uncommon, having so many simultaneously severely interferes with internal commerce, which causes local shortages of various goods, leading to the spread of violence. Your task is to escort relief convoys through war zones to worlds hard hit by the conflicts.
    The first world is happy to see you and the forces blockading it flee after token engagement.
    The second world is under the control of rebels and not only puts up a fight in space, but uses planetary defenses to prevent your success.
    The third is world under heavy assault, and your fleet must not only break through the attacking fleet, but the defending fleet as well. Thereafter orbital and ground forces must be neutralized and diplomatic contact with the legal government of the world established.

    BLOG: Captain Shon, a hero of the relief convoy efforts, is appointed to command the Joint Alliance Guard Force, and word arrives that the remnants of the RSE has occupied several unaffiliated Romulan worlds, with the ultimate aim of forceful reunification of the Republic under their command.

    Episode 2: War By Other Means
    Player captains must visit unaligned Romulan worlds, (such as Hfihar,) to offer Alliance protection if they join the Alliance.
    On the first world a Tal Shiar assassin attempts to kill the Captain. Diplomacy may fail, but it must seem to the player that its success is his actual goal.
    On the second world an attempt to blockade your arrival is made, followed by an attempt to disrupt negotiations by setting off a bomb or three. Disarming the bombs must appear to be the goal, and Tal Shiar and Hirogen shock troops do their best to prevent it. The real goal of the assassins is to force the planet's leadership into a 'safe' bunker where a fifth bomb is hidden, and in this they succeed. With no government, the Alliance assumes the responsibility of protecting the world and promoting its peaceful transfer of power.
    On the third world the RSE has imposed its leadership by publicly executing everyone in its Romulan Republic government. Expecting counterattack, the RSE fortifies both ground and space defenses and invites Hirogens to hunt non-RSE ships and personnel in the system.
    Selecting Hard mode on this world means a fight in space followed by a fight on the ground to eliminate all enemy forces.
    Selecting Medium mode allows a feint at attacking the space defenses, but allows beaming down once in range of the planet to infiltrate the RSE command center.
    Selecting Easy mode allows a massive Alliance fleet to enter the system with the player, and provides shock troops which can be called in, (similar to the orbital bombardment in Cutting The Cord)
    On the fourth world, an unallied world which is a hub of smuggling activity, the player must convince at least three of the five Cantons to lend aid and support to the Alliance. Failure of any individual attempt may or may not result in having to fight your way out. At the end the three smuggler princes agree to use their communications networks to spread the word that Alliance protection can be had for no more cost than renouncing RSE and Tal Shiar control.

    Episode 3: The Fire
    Rebel Klingon houses and RSE fleets begin outright conquest of Federation, Republic, and Empire worlds, and you are tasked to scout and protect if possible a world which may be on the list. Your first task is to find any rebel spies and expose them. Your second task is to keep the spy alive so your Intelligence Officer can interrogate him. Your third task is to oppose an incoming Rebel fleet long enough for Alliance help to arrive.

    BLOG: The only hope the Alliance has to preserve the failing Empire and Republic is to accept the loss of border worlds while focusing on protecting key worlds.

    Episode 4: War By Any Means
    A relief mission gone wrong leaves the player captain stranded behind enemy lines.
    The player captain must discuss the situation with the local government and advise them on how to best preserve their people against the threat of RSE reconquest.
    Choice 1) Accept them with open arms. This choice means their contact with the player puts them in jeopardy, but the player can choose to have the locals chase him out of town as the RSE fleet arrives, thus proving they were always loyal.
    Choice 2) Evacuate anyone the RSE will want to kill. This choice means the locals will feel abandoned and attack the player in an attempt to either get evacuated themselves or to have a prize to show their new masters when they arrive.
    Choice 3) Geurilla War. This choice means that the player must remain on site long enough to show the locals how to resist occupation.
    Any choice means the player captain will have to fight his way past the RSE fleet to get out.

    Episode 5: Ashes
    First, a major RSE naval depot must be captured to slow RSE expansion and prevent their replacement of lost ships. Bring a friend!
    Second, a fleet containing the bulk of a Rebel House's ground troops must be prevented from destroying a loyalist garisson world.
    Third, Rebel forces must be forced off of a Republic colony world and out of its solar system. (Optional, find and eliminate the hidden spy base.)
    Fourth, RSE raiders attacking civilian shipping and farm worlds must be stopped, but also show how desperate the RSE is.
    Fifth, protect Federation diplomats as they set up and conduct peace negotiations between the belligerents.

    BLOG: The Joint Alliance Guard Force is disbanded as enemy ships and soldiers abandon the fight. Although some remain dedicated to their cause, their power is broken. The Alliance stands ready to help anyworld in need, regardless of affiliation as various disputed worlds either opt for independence or seek to enter into one of the factions.

    ***

    Ship Upgrades for Rom and Klink factions would be supported by such an expansion, as well as the creation of new Alliance vessels designed jointly by all three powers. Some existing ships can be T6U RSE versions of the lower tier vessels, and some can be T6U versions of Rebel House vessels which are Klingon designs. The focus here should be on hulls never upgraded past T5.

    Map bugs of many kinds can be addressed as this season focuses mainly on the Beta Quadrant and, aside from specific maps generated for a particular fight, new maps won't be needed.

    Clothing bugs and options can be addressed as there will be no need to create new races.

    Romulan Republic Ally Races can be introduced as playable characters and/or BOffs.

    Finally, Hirogen Hunters, smugglers and pirates, and broken faction raiders, (remnants of the RSE and Rebel Houses,) can be used to create Individual Red Alerts which affect only one player but offer the option to drop out of warp for an encounter, (rewarded by marks from the appropriate faction,) or to continue on with more important matters.

    Not bad but the RR and RSE alrady had their civil war unless you have not played the LOR content.

    The KDF? a civil war would go well with someone like torg leading the way trying to seize the reigns of the empire for himself.

    as far as disbanding the alliance? wont happen simply the federation would have to sit by and watch it unfold, though ther could be a few fed missions that assist j'mpok unofficially of course.
  • Options
    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    With the most powerful leaders of the Great Houses and the Romulan Star Empire wiped out in the Iconian storyline, we're left with power vacuums all over the Beta Quadrant. One thing both cultures have in common is their attachment to strong leaders, and in the absence of such leadership, both devolve into infighting and fratricide until clear victors emerge to assume the leadership roles. Therefore it is a logical development that both erupt in interfactional conflict.

    With the RSE a fractured fragment of its former glory, there will be those who want to make one final attempt to sieze control of the remnants of the Empire with the goal of reconquering the Republic rebels

    With at least six heads of great houses assassinated, it is certain that second sons and cousins will think themselves more suited to lead than the obvious heirs, and plan accordingly, while other great houses whose goals were restricted by the might of the council may see opportunities to attain power in the council or feel free to ignore the Council.

    With destabilization everywhere, the Federation will see opportunities to pick off minor race worlds or border worlds which have suffered neglect by their faction. Federation aid and protection would allow them greater autonomy internally than either empire allowed, and offer external security neither can provide, which will result in very angry empires.

    Meanwhile, if the Alliance is to be preserved, the spread of the conflict will have to be arrested.

    So, the stage is set for the development team to work on updating the existing assets rather than creating wholly new enemies and vessels. With the expansion focused on the efforts of The Alliance to minimize the damage, there would not need to be three storylines, but work on factional ship upgrades and Alpha/Beta Quadrant bugs and issues could be a major selling point.

    This is my outline, but understandably yours will be different:

    BLOG: The factional leaders of The Alliance hold a subspace teleconference discussing the problems and they agree to maintain the Alliance, set the ground rules for Alliance actions in their various territories, and appoint a three member Joint Alliance Command Staff to both advise the as yet unappointed leader of the stabilizing force and to keep the leadership of their factions informed.

    Episode 1: The Spark
    Succession issues among several Great Houses erupt into violence as supporters of one candidate or another attempt to improve their position by eliminating the competition. While such disruptions are not uncommon, having so many simultaneously severely interferes with internal commerce, which causes local shortages of various goods, leading to the spread of violence. Your task is to escort relief convoys through war zones to worlds hard hit by the conflicts.
    The first world is happy to see you and the forces blockading it flee after token engagement.
    The second world is under the control of rebels and not only puts up a fight in space, but uses planetary defenses to prevent your success.
    The third is world under heavy assault, and your fleet must not only break through the attacking fleet, but the defending fleet as well. Thereafter orbital and ground forces must be neutralized and diplomatic contact with the legal government of the world established.

    BLOG: Captain Shon, a hero of the relief convoy efforts, is appointed to command the Joint Alliance Guard Force, and word arrives that the remnants of the RSE has occupied several unaffiliated Romulan worlds, with the ultimate aim of forceful reunification of the Republic under their command.

    Episode 2: War By Other Means
    Player captains must visit unaligned Romulan worlds, (such as Hfihar,) to offer Alliance protection if they join the Alliance.
    On the first world a Tal Shiar assassin attempts to kill the Captain. Diplomacy may fail, but it must seem to the player that its success is his actual goal.
    On the second world an attempt to blockade your arrival is made, followed by an attempt to disrupt negotiations by setting off a bomb or three. Disarming the bombs must appear to be the goal, and Tal Shiar and Hirogen shock troops do their best to prevent it. The real goal of the assassins is to force the planet's leadership into a 'safe' bunker where a fifth bomb is hidden, and in this they succeed. With no government, the Alliance assumes the responsibility of protecting the world and promoting its peaceful transfer of power.
    On the third world the RSE has imposed its leadership by publicly executing everyone in its Romulan Republic government. Expecting counterattack, the RSE fortifies both ground and space defenses and invites Hirogens to hunt non-RSE ships and personnel in the system.
    Selecting Hard mode on this world means a fight in space followed by a fight on the ground to eliminate all enemy forces.
    Selecting Medium mode allows a feint at attacking the space defenses, but allows beaming down once in range of the planet to infiltrate the RSE command center.
    Selecting Easy mode allows a massive Alliance fleet to enter the system with the player, and provides shock troops which can be called in, (similar to the orbital bombardment in Cutting The Cord)
    On the fourth world, an unallied world which is a hub of smuggling activity, the player must convince at least three of the five Cantons to lend aid and support to the Alliance. Failure of any individual attempt may or may not result in having to fight your way out. At the end the three smuggler princes agree to use their communications networks to spread the word that Alliance protection can be had for no more cost than renouncing RSE and Tal Shiar control.

    Episode 3: The Fire
    Rebel Klingon houses and RSE fleets begin outright conquest of Federation, Republic, and Empire worlds, and you are tasked to scout and protect if possible a world which may be on the list. Your first task is to find any rebel spies and expose them. Your second task is to keep the spy alive so your Intelligence Officer can interrogate him. Your third task is to oppose an incoming Rebel fleet long enough for Alliance help to arrive.

    BLOG: The only hope the Alliance has to preserve the failing Empire and Republic is to accept the loss of border worlds while focusing on protecting key worlds.

    Episode 4: War By Any Means
    A relief mission gone wrong leaves the player captain stranded behind enemy lines.
    The player captain must discuss the situation with the local government and advise them on how to best preserve their people against the threat of RSE reconquest.
    Choice 1) Accept them with open arms. This choice means their contact with the player puts them in jeopardy, but the player can choose to have the locals chase him out of town as the RSE fleet arrives, thus proving they were always loyal.
    Choice 2) Evacuate anyone the RSE will want to kill. This choice means the locals will feel abandoned and attack the player in an attempt to either get evacuated themselves or to have a prize to show their new masters when they arrive.
    Choice 3) Geurilla War. This choice means that the player must remain on site long enough to show the locals how to resist occupation.
    Any choice means the player captain will have to fight his way past the RSE fleet to get out.

    Episode 5: Ashes
    First, a major RSE naval depot must be captured to slow RSE expansion and prevent their replacement of lost ships. Bring a friend!
    Second, a fleet containing the bulk of a Rebel House's ground troops must be prevented from destroying a loyalist garisson world.
    Third, Rebel forces must be forced off of a Republic colony world and out of its solar system. (Optional, find and eliminate the hidden spy base.)
    Fourth, RSE raiders attacking civilian shipping and farm worlds must be stopped, but also show how desperate the RSE is.
    Fifth, protect Federation diplomats as they set up and conduct peace negotiations between the belligerents.

    BLOG: The Joint Alliance Guard Force is disbanded as enemy ships and soldiers abandon the fight. Although some remain dedicated to their cause, their power is broken. The Alliance stands ready to help anyworld in need, regardless of affiliation as various disputed worlds either opt for independence or seek to enter into one of the factions.

    ***

    Ship Upgrades for Rom and Klink factions would be supported by such an expansion, as well as the creation of new Alliance vessels designed jointly by all three powers. Some existing ships can be T6U RSE versions of the lower tier vessels, and some can be T6U versions of Rebel House vessels which are Klingon designs. The focus here should be on hulls never upgraded past T5.

    Map bugs of many kinds can be addressed as this season focuses mainly on the Beta Quadrant and, aside from specific maps generated for a particular fight, new maps won't be needed.

    Clothing bugs and options can be addressed as there will be no need to create new races.

    Romulan Republic Ally Races can be introduced as playable characters and/or BOffs.

    Finally, Hirogen Hunters, smugglers and pirates, and broken faction raiders, (remnants of the RSE and Rebel Houses,) can be used to create Individual Red Alerts which affect only one player but offer the option to drop out of warp for an encounter, (rewarded by marks from the appropriate faction,) or to continue on with more important matters.

    Not bad but the RR and RSE alrady had their civil war unless you have not played the LOR content.

    The KDF? a civil war would go well with someone like torg leading the way trying to seize the reigns of the empire for himself.

    as far as disbanding the alliance? wont happen simply the federation would have to sit by and watch it unfold, though ther could be a few fed missions that assist j'mpok unofficially of course.

    Played LoR. Notice at the end where the Tal Shiar agent tries to intimidate D'Tan? At least two of them think thr Tal Shiar is a going thing after Hakeev.

    Again, lack of clarity on my part: the Alliance is stronger than ever. What I disbanded was the Alliance Home Guard unit which I created in the first blog whic had the sole purpose of creating stability. Mission accomplished, they get reassigned to other tasks.
  • Options
    shadowwraith#9264 shadowwraith Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    This is stupid, pointless, and rather contradictory to the entire point of Trek, which is coming together.
    3. There are plenty of FAR more important storylines/races we could cover
    -Sheliak legal dispute
    -Dominion War 2.0
    -Hur'q/Fek'Ihri connection
    -Kelvan Empire Invasion
    -See whats going on across the far side of the Nekrit Expanse
    -Capturing the augment leader Princep Khan
    -Playable Cardassians


    add to those

    - The cardassian DMZ
    - the Devore faction (they hate telepaths)
    - the Nacene faction (aka the caretakers)
    - the Traveller from TNG http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Traveler
    • Draal - FED, Saurian, LV60 - TAC
    • Mirak - FED 23c, Vulkan, LV60 - TAC
    • Ascaran Bloodclaw - KDF, Gorn, Lv18 - TAC
    • Melchiah - KDF, Gorn, LV60 - TAC
    • Ne'roon - KDF,Lethian, L60, TAC
    • Turel - ROM-KDF, Reman, 30, TAC
    • Elric - ROM-Fed, Romulan, L60, TAC
    • Richtor Belmont - FED 23c, Human,LV20, SCI
    • G'Kar - KDF, Gorn, L10

    USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
    USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
    USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
    270?cb=20061004071055
    "I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star."
    "We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."

    – Grey Council greeting
  • Options
    lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    If you're going for a civil war why not focus on the Federation? A small elite seek to seize control of the Federation and enforce their values on the citizenry. Since they already control many of the elements of the machinery of power they can legally advance their agenda right up 'til the coup needed to replace the president. Romulans and Klingons would tend to respect the honourable element of the Federation so could be asked to act as a neutral 3rd party by an agent of the president.

    Just throwing this out there.
    brian334 wrote: »
    I don't bring my feelings to the forums so, "No blood, no foul."

    But I'd like to thank those who helped shape the basic idea. It seems my storyline needs to represent the RSE part differently. By making it clear that small militant forces are only remnants clinging to a glory myth of Empire it could work. Perhaps rival fleets support contenders or pretenders to the throne and Romulan worlds get caught in the crossfire.

    And to those who have other ideas or priorities, I hope your ideas are brought in as well.

  • Options
    brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    Well, the Alliance might put a check on the Federation for predatory diplomacy. As I pointed out in my outline, the Federation is prone to offer aid and trade to worlds on the margins, and relief to worlds being intentionally squeezed out by others, (for humanitarian reasons, of course.) This might antagonize the power which 'owns' those worlds.
  • Options
    lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    You're missing the forest for the trees, and I'm not talking anything as petty and small scale as Leyton's attempt at a coup. Since the Federation is based in part on the American union of states I'll reference American politics and culture in part to illustrate.

    While it's true that the Federation is marketed as a Utopia, America is seen by many around the world as, if not a Utopia, something far far closer to it than any other nation. The fact that a Federation citizen has all the basic necessities of life available doesn't mean there aren't significant gaps bubbling away under the surface. Remember Trek almost never shows life in the Federation - the focus is on a very small part of Starfleet. In America there are a great many opportunities, but even those who are privileged find grounds to object.

    Consider what would happen if the hidden 'til now academia were enamoured with Borg culture, or the teachings of Mussolini. Likely? No, but look at the situation with US campuses where riots are becoming increasingly common, and expressing the wrong opinion presents great risk to an academic career. Now factor in the judiciary. If the judiciary are trained by institutions in which the majority of academic hold anti-Starfleet or anti-Federation perspectives, and teach these as fact or require them be expressed for a passing grade, then it is probable they too will hold similar views and seek to reinterpret laws to advance that agenda. Then there's the media. Current technology allows for anyone to be a reporter or commentator, but for proper coverage you need breadth and depth of sources, plus a modicum of editorial input. I don't see things being different in the Federation. That being the case those reporters employed by the major news corporations on Earth, Vulcan, Hoth - oh wait wrong universe ;) are most likely all graduates of the same academic institutions peddling that specific viewpoint. As with the judges they'll skew their reports to favour the viewpoint they've been taught to express. At this point there's no conspiracy, no attempt to overthrough the Federation, merely a conglomeration of fellow travellers all seeking to reshape the empire they live in.

    Now throw in a small group of conspirators who are actively seeking to overthrow the Federation and replace it with the idealised values the aforementioned groups hold so dear. Even without any recruitment they have a wide pool of useful idiots, and it could be expanded. Consider the Elachi-Tal Shiar efforts to develop reprogramming technology for sentients, technology potentially acquired by the Federation after the player's attack on Installation 18. Simply vanish the odd scientist, academic, judge, journalist etc and you could radically reshape public discourse and rulings. Factor in the ultimate goal - some sort of air deployed Borg nanite with such rewrite capability and the cabal's goal would be theoretically viable - capture the minds of the people then win a 'democratic' election. Even if such technology is a pipe dream public opinion can be shaped. If the reprogramming technology were used to create assassins from supporters of their opponents, and used to publicly kill politicians trying but failing to advance 'the cause' then an investigation revealing the political tie would cause a public outcry. Consider the recent kerfuffle over the Scalise shooting where a Bernie supporter attempted to kill a bunch of Republicans. Now of course some Democrats are exacerbating that by calling for more such actions, or merely supporting the shooter for doing as he did but in a Trekverse a cabal with sentient reprogramming ability, could create a wonderful foil for their agenda.

    This all ignores any Starfleet contribution. Obviously the potential for the cabal to find fleet sympathisers exists - officers have gone bad before e.g. Admiral Dougherty, though he claimed to be acting on behalf of the Federation Council. And if senior officers give loyal Starfleet officers and crew classified orders the potential for conflict ensues.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    If you're going for a civil war why not focus on the Federation? A small elite seek to seize control of the Federation and enforce their values on the citizenry. Since they already control many of the elements of the machinery of power they can legally advance their agenda right up 'til the coup needed to replace the president. Romulans and Klingons would tend to respect the honourable element of the Federation so could be asked to act as a neutral 3rd party by an agent of the president.

    Just throwing this out there.
    brian334 wrote: »
    I don't bring my feelings to the forums so, "No blood, no foul."

    But I'd like to thank those who helped shape the basic idea. It seems my storyline needs to represent the RSE part differently. By making it clear that small militant forces are only remnants clinging to a glory myth of Empire it could work. Perhaps rival fleets support contenders or pretenders to the throne and Romulan worlds get caught in the crossfire.

    And to those who have other ideas or priorities, I hope your ideas are brought in as well.

    doesn't work in the Federation-the closest it's gotten was Leyton, and his coup attempt was thwarted with relative ease, and that's without going into the obsessively perfect utopia that is how most Fed fans (and creators) view it.

    in short, it'd require a HELL of a lot of good writing not to jump the shark in a major way-and Cryptic can't afford the detour. (or the kind of good writer necessary to make it work).

    See, the biggest problem is there being nothing establishing the kind of conditions that would allow it-at least, nothing remaining in the storyline.

    your idea might've worked before they wrapped the Iconian storyline-there was still room for th ere to BE instabillity in the Federation, but they wrapped it up in a neat bundle of pat answers and asserting the "positive message" instead of leaving gaps where your idea could work.

    at the same time, they've actually STAGED for a KLINGON internal struggle-the wiping out of the High Councillors and J'mpok leaning on emergency powers and inertia sets things up WELL for Klingons to start killing one another now that the major external conflicts have been solved. (the Tzenkethi thing isn't just outside the border, it's a true sideshow to what CAN be going on internally-Klingons are actually hard to keep united.)

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    lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    Yes and no. Whether a war is grey scale or not depends on the perspective presented. Take WWII. Was Hitler to blame for the war? Some historians argue not, and no I'm not talking about fact rejecting Holocaust deniers. If a 'recent' conflict is so contentious then anything more distant must be at least as open to dispute. And while Southerners may get red faced over the prevailing interpretation, they're not alone in rejecting the dominant narrative. Tying this back to an ST: Civil War, clear black and white divisions could be written in, could even be presented plausibly. The issue would be if the player is forced to support a 'white' position they consider black as sin. This is where the difficulty with using any modern parallels would lie. Any conflict that pertained to the liberal:conservative divide, or any values or concepts pertaining to that, would be dangerous.

    As for the Starfleet Paladin BFAWing thousands of aliens to death because they're 'BAD PEOPLE' rather than merely on the other side, is that any different to the interpretation of the Hodgkinson\Scalise shooting? Seems to me that the Left\Right are increasingly confident that the other chap was legitimately shot because he was BAD PEOPLE. Yes there's still those in the middle hoping sanity prevails, but the middle is disappearing.


    patrickngo wrote: »
    The MAJOR problem is that a Civil War scenario is inevitably on a moral gray-scale. There are still southernors who will get red in the face screaming that the Amercian Civil War had nothing to do with Slavery, and everything to do with interstate exploitation and abuse by the Federal government (aka "State's rights").

    The current political climate in the U.S. is a product of fifty years of steady division within the culture of the U.S., this divide was visible in american domestic and foreign policy by the 1970s, and has been generationally getting more pronounced, visible, and at times, inconvenient for the people running the government.

    none of that is true of STO's Federation Council.

    Starfleet and starfleet-oriented missions have had the 'gray' areas purged, when your Starfleet Paladin rolls in and BFAWS several thousand aliens to death, it's because they're "BAD PEOPLE", not merely "On the other side".

    the morality of STO's take on the Federation ("Always on t he right side, always.") doesn't allow room for the moral gray areas necessary to tell a civil war story.

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    lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    I'm assuming CBS have no interest in what STO do. If they retain significant editorial oversight then yes that would prove a significant problem for developing any serious storylines outside the Foundry.

    It's more arguing over ignorance. We don't know much about civilian life so there's room to interpret.

    Torg is already dead so you'd need other troublesome sorts. And is a rebellion in the wake of treason likely to garner much support? While you may be correct about many of the doff missions being focused on low level inter-house activities, there are also a great many missions focused on anti-Federation activities - raids, slave taking etc. If doff content is grounds to assume a state of conflict is simmering away in the Klingon Empire then it's also grounds to assume that the KDF is still at war with the Federation.

    While the Klingon Empire could theoretically be one step away from a brutal civil war there's competing reasons to avoid open warfare - a code of honour, house alliances etc. As for folk distrusting Starfleet being restricted to hostile aliens and criminals, what about the Maquis for instance? While officially classed as criminals that's not exactly accurate. Whilst Trek shows generally depict Starfleet favourably, odds are there are a few groups that really don't think much of Starfleet without being directly hostile.
    patrickngo wrote: »

    I think you're giving too much leeway into what CBS will actually allow STO to do-they might get away with a one-off episode concluded easily and quickly by the spacebar heroes, but for a serious political story that doesn't come off as blatant propaganda endorsing the American Left, they don't have the kind of permissions, much less people, who can do that.

    not just in-universe limitations apply here. (if it were more than that, Torg, Hakeev, etc. wouldn't be two-dimensional or one-note snidely whiplash villains moustache-twirling their way to abject defeat t hanks to overcomplicated plots and basic stupidity...not ONE of STO's villains has depth. We don't get to have a Dukat, it's literally too difficult to get clearance, and requires far too much skill in writing to achieve on the platform as presented.)

    plus, the underpinning action isn't hinted at, much less shown, to make your thesis viable. (chekhov's gun, yanno? without the foreshadowing, it ends up being a crass and rejectable slop... deus ex machina and an obvious Macguffin)

    OTOH, the underpinnings for a Klingon civil war (and more than just Torg being a one-note baddie) ARE there. Half the Doff missions in the Klingon's intelligence string are focused on domestic low-level conflicts, spying on other houses, assassinations, framing, etc. etc. etc.

    It basically puts forth the idea that the Klingon Empire is always just a short step away from brutal civil war. this kind of groundwork hasn't been laid for the Federation, internal conflict becomes seriously out-of-place, and the BEST you can get, is a Leyton situation (resolved in a single player mission of relatively short length).

    Funny thing is, despite Dev protests to the contrary, there's actually MORE info on life in the Klingon Empire (as in day-to-day) available in the shows, and in the game, than there is on life in the Federation itself outside of Starfleet.

    more of it has been shown.

    and what's been shown, makes a Klingon internal conflict a lot easier to 'sell' than trying to fabricate decades' worth of social unrest into a setting that largely has seen none at all (such as STO's Federation).

    unlike the Federation, the Klingons actually have the grounds laid down for a domestic dustup, that's not so with what we've gotten Fedside, where the only people who don't trust Starfleet, are either hostile aliens, or outright criminals.

    (and yes, the Bajora would count as hostile aliens for this example.)

    for another example, though...

    if t hey hadn't eightysixed "Divide Et Impera", that COULD have been the first of several precursor events leading to the Fed civil war you (apparently) want. It's the only mission we had, where Federation officers were manipulated into a bad situation...(Politically) and it was removed.

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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    no, torg is not dead​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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    lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    I'm not disputing shallowness, but does it need to be? Hitler was the hero of his own story, and Rommel was admired by the Allies, but both were 'the enemy'.

    I disagree. For a civil war to occur all the matters is perceived reasons. Those may be real, they may not be.

    And yet a lone nut was able to trigger WWI, otherwise known as the European Civil War.
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