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Brickwallers and their inability to understand changing circumstances

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  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    One of the issues I have experienced many times is the Vinegar approach isn't going to achieve the goal desired.
    For example, asking someone politely to do something is far more likely to achieve a result then being uncouth.
    As the expression goes, it's not what is said, it's how it is said.
    The only result being aggressive achieves is to get completely disregarded.
    And in a game with an ignore function, silenced forever to those who don't appreciate the impolite behavior.

    I can't comprehend how Vinegars think, they're constantly denigrating those they disagree with and think the conversation is perfectly civil while the other participants are being disrespectful for not agreeing with them or doing what they are told.



    Yes, I would prefer it if the game had a smart checking feature, that if someone was on your ingore list, they couldn't be teamed with you.

    @e30ernest
    I don't minimise the chat window because if something important needs to be said, it is not appropriate to hide that just to avoid the possibility of someone in the group acting out in aggression.
    And yes, you are correct, the one blaming the team is usually the one responsible for the problems, they're so convinced that they are faultless/perfect they won't acknowledge they are the one failing.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    Treat pugs as the right tools of your gaming experience OP. They are there to spice up your online day not the only way to play. Join a fleet or private chat community dedicated to PvE. There you can teach and coordinate and pull the strings the way you want them for the next run.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    You do highlight the issue that people on ignore can still be grouped with the folk who ignored them which seems to be slightly contradictory to the concept of ignoring them in the first place.
    That's not an "issue." Ignoring someone means you can't see their communications anymore, nothing else.

    I just have to wonder where the (apparently quite common) misconception that ignoring someone would magically make them disappear from the game comes from... :expressionless:

    But I do have to imagine you haven't thought it through even wanting such a feature...if there's a lot of people in the queues you want to avoid you might have to wait a long time for the game to find a group with none of them in it.
    e30ernest wrote: »
    nabreeki wrote: »
    Why would you be emotionally impacted by it anyway, even if you could see it?

    Yeah, I find it a bit sad that some players find themselves "needing" to minimize the chat window - the main means of communication you have in a team game.

    I have my chat window open all the time. I have rarely seen any rude comments to anyone in the team. In fact, I have not seen any rude comments made in the last month or so. The very few times I have seen someone say something rude in the game, that person making negative comments is usually also the one who doesn't actually know what he is doing.
    I rarely see anything at all on pug team chat, except the occasional "hi" in the beginning or "gg" at the end. But when I do, it's usually more or less rude.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    Ignoring someone means that you wish to have nothing to do with them. Good selection of other mmo's overlap ignore with not grouping up.

    I tend to do a biannual purge of my ignore list to avoid it getting overly long. Although with current world events over the past year it does have a habit of filling up pretty fast once the armchair politicians and bigots start appearing in the zone chats.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    @postagepaid
    I too would prefer it if players on my ignore list were blocked from joining the queues I play, because if they're on that list, it means I don't want anything to do with them in gameplay.
    Even to the point of not having them near me, because I know from experience players who carry grudges find ways to torment you even while on ignore lists.

    I had to purge my ignore list too, I was having far too many encounters with problematic players of many descriptions.
    So now I only put someone on there if they demonstrate behavior so unforgivable that they'll never be removed from my ignore list.

    To be fair, I have seen some polite behavior so far, as long as I confine my chat to before match and after match, they seem to take it well.
    But I'm cautious about actually speaking up, because sometimes even the simple act of typing can offend the SeriousBusiness player.
    Those players believe that socialising is not permitted, the only things were are allowed to discuss is mission gameplay, all other chat is forbidden.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    @postagepaid
    I too would prefer it if players on my ignore list were blocked from joining the queues I play, because if they're on that list, it means I don't want anything to do with them in gameplay.
    Even to the point of not having them near me, because I know from experience players who carry grudges find ways to torment you even while on ignore lists.


    Or... YOU'RE the one having the grudge, putting ppl on Ignore. :) No, seriously, this is an inherent problem with any (consequential) ignore/kick-vote system: people will do so for all the good reasons... and simply for spite.

    Besides, with that many ppl no longer being able to queue together (and the ensuing cross mojonation), ere long there wouldn't be anyone left to queue with (or the queue would simply take hours to fill). Queues pop hard enough as it is.
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  • steaensteaen Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    I've just played Mirror Invasion to pick up some marks and spent the entire PvE being abused in chat by another player for being supposedly AFK.

    I pointed out that, being in a Science ship, I was doing exactly what I was meant to be doing in terms of closing rifts (destroying ships only as necessary to do so) and initiating the power transfers, but apparently in this person's mind because I wasn't flying around spewing beams and torps at anything moving, I wasn't contributing.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    I too would prefer it if players on my ignore list were blocked from joining the queues I play, because if they're on that list, it means I don't want anything to do with them in gameplay.
    Even to the point of not having them near me, because I know from experience players who carry grudges find ways to torment you even while on ignore lists.
    You've got that backwards. You're the one who would be blocked from queues they play. If you to refuse to join a game with someone you don't like in it, OK wait for the next one or queue for something else. But you certainly don't get to decide what other people are allowed to play.
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  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    So glad I can do red alerts and avoid the drama of competitive runs to get marks.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    steaen wrote: »
    I've just played Mirror Invasion to pick up some marks and spent the entire PvE being abused in chat by another player for being supposedly AFK.

    I pointed out that, being in a Science ship, I was doing exactly what I was meant to be doing in terms of closing rifts (destroying ships only as necessary to do so) and initiating the power transfers, but apparently in this person's mind because I wasn't flying around spewing beams and torps at anything moving, I wasn't contributing.


    Just put those ppl on Ignore. I do.

    And now that the event is over, a big thank you to all, well, ppl like you, willing to do their part! :) I've even had ppl set their shield heal drones on me, or just heal me themselves. As long as this still happens, I still feel happy about playing this game.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • steaensteaen Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ust put those ppl on Ignore. I do.

    And now that the event is over, a big thank you to all, well, ppl like you, willing to do their part! :) I've even had ppl set their shield heal drones on me, or just heal me themselves. As long as this still happens, I still feel happy about playing this game.

    That's exactly what I did. :)

    It just annoyed me that even when I explained what I was doing and why, he still continued with the abuse and couldn't seem to grasp any kind of strategy beyond "pew pew pew". As I explained, I was there for marks so it was in my interest that we do as well as possible, to which end helping to close as many rifts as I could and doing the power transfers was the best way I could help. I'm nowhere near an uber-DPSer and my ship isn't set up for it even if I was, so I've always taken the view of doing what I can do best to help the team.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Haters' gonna hate.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    Past few days have seen a vast improvement in the quality of players in the MI.

    Today in a run there was couple of cruisers an escort, a sci and myself in the sphere sci, we hit 68 rifts closed with station of full power and health along with moments of downtime during the portal phase due to folk doing their jobs.

    In comparison a run with mainly the pewpew junkies and station ended on 4/10 barely scraping 4 /5 power and only a dozen rifts.

    Still a few leeches who sit afk and those ***** who make the game spam playerx left the game playerx joined the game for 10 minutes before they turn up and slink off to scrape the edges of the map. (which should be an auto boot for running away with a 4 hour cowardice debuff that only runs down while the character is active and causes all damage done to be reduced to double digit only and massive damage taken)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    szim wrote: »
    tilarta wrote: »
    I think they assume that someone who isn't fighting, even for a few seconds is being a leech (from their point of view).
    In the above scenario, we'd already lost, so why should we keep fighting?
    Because every puzzle section that your team completes gives you additional competitive marks, even if you lose.
    Yeah, I've done some where we were fighting the final boss when the other team won. We got almost as many marks as the winners.

    Also, I've seen people try to block the walkways...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,669 Community Moderator
    The problem is... Trolls will be Trolls. And they will FIND ways to Troll. The fact these kinds of individuals exist is the bane of average MMO players everywhere. Hell... ANY Multiplayer game can have them. Wanna drive a Warthog in Halo for a CTF match? NOPE! Troll gonna run around the base with it and maybe run you over for teh lulz.

    Honestly the only thing Trolls get from me these days is...
    twilightsparkleheaddesk.gif
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    To clarify, a grudgeholder is someone who takes their enmity of another player to obsessive levels.
    They can spend months or years annoying someone for something trivial.
    In my experience, just asking a Vinegar/Paintballer to be nice is enough to get the hateball rolling.

    For the record, it takes a fair bit to get added to my ignore list permanently.
    The player either has to irritate me a lot/frequently or do/say something so objectionable I know it is best not to deal with them ever again.

    To be honest, I doubt STO's playerbase is so diminished that anyone is required to play with those they don't want to for the sake of launching a queue.
    If the queue isn't launching, then there is another reason it won't activate. For example, queuing for Binary Assault Normal when Elite is the one favored.

    By the way, I didn't say the ignore list blocking proposal doesn't prevent the Brickwallers or Ragers from playing, it just prevents them from those players who wish to avoid them.
    And honestly, if they annoy enough players that they're excluded from every queue group that forms, then that is the reward they earned for their impolite behavior.
    steaen wrote: »
    It just annoyed me that even when I explained what I was doing and why, he still continued with the abuse and couldn't seem to grasp any kind of strategy beyond "pew pew pew". As I explained, to close as many rifts as I could and doing the power transfers was the best way I could help.

    A similar thing happened to me once in the Spire defense queue.
    There's a portal that spawns the Voth ships at the very edge of the map.
    Since I know where it is, I make sure to park on it and take down anything that emerges.
    Got attitude from a player who didn't understand why I wasn't in the centre of the map fighting with the rest of the team.

    In both these cases, it's an example of the Brickwaller mentality, they don't understand a new/different approach and deem it leeching.
    Which is why I don't even bother explaining anymore, they're not going to understand and I don't want to listen to their inane ranting when I have a task I need to focus on.
    And if they take it too far, there's a one-way trip on the USS Ignore to GoldenSilence City.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Yeah, there's several queues you will fail if you don't split the team.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    It is hard to beat this for inconsiderate behavior:
    BinaryAssaultLeecher01_zpsajrnbn8b.png
    Look at the distance meter, they really are not participating at all!!!!
    They must be online, because if they hadn't clicked Accept, they wouldn't have been able to transfer to this map.

    As an aside, I knew this player was a potential source of trouble when I saw them, because they showed up with several injuries.
    Always a Redshirt flag when I see that.
    I really cannot comprehend someone who doesn't come to Elite/Advanced difficulty missions and have a supply of Regenerators/Components to use.
    And you don't have to carry them with you, having them in the personal bank will still allow them to be used.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    They must be online, because if they hadn't clicked Accept, they wouldn't have been able to transfer to this map.

    The problem is the new queue UI (for all its awesomeness) will dump you into the map without even displaying an "Accept/Decline" window. So if a queue was taking long to pop, and a player decides to take a pee-break while they wait and suddenly the queue system warps them into the map without a warning, they might get caught afk at the start.

    I've seen this happen so many times now. I don't blame these players when that happens. It's the fault of the queue UI.
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,507 Arc User
    Really late to the debate on this, but as rule, as Badmoon mentions, I will have a go at anyone who has a go at me for 'not pulling my weight', because they aren't! But that's besides the point for me usually. I love, and will carry a team if I have to. Why, because that's automatically a challenge to me. In this game, everything is so skew-whiff out of balance and OP that it's so easy to carry a team when you know what to do. The one and only player that gets my goat is the AFK'er, and unless it's a genuine emergency, that player will get my wrath of being reported. The Dev's DO NOT do enough to discourage it.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    nabreeki wrote: »
    > @steaen said:
    > I've just played Mirror Invasion to pick up some marks and spent the entire PvE being abused in chat by another player for being supposedly AFK.
    >
    > I pointed out that, being in a Science ship, I was doing exactly what I was meant to be doing in terms of closing rifts (destroying ships only as necessary to do so) and initiating the power transfers, but apparently in this person's mind because I wasn't flying around spewing beams and torps at anything moving, I wasn't contributing.

    You're not.
    1. Incorrect.
    2. How is your response helping?
    boldly-watched.png
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    It wasn't meant to. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Really late to the debate on this, but as rule, as Badmoon mentions, I will have a go at anyone who has a go at me for 'not pulling my weight', because they aren't! But that's besides the point for me usually. I love, and will carry a team if I have to. Why, because that's automatically a challenge to me. In this game, everything is so skew-whiff out of balance and OP that it's so easy to carry a team when you know what to do. The one and only player that gets my goat is the AFK'er, and unless it's a genuine emergency, that player will get my wrath of being reported. The Dev's DO NOT do enough to discourage it.
    But how do you tell a true AFK'er?

    The PC I was last using, was absolute garbage. It could handle regular missions fine, but if I went to spacedock, it would lag something chronic. DS 9 could be hit or miss depending on the time of day, but 39-Sierra was always golden. Some Borg and Tholian Red Alerts, when DPS spamtards started doing their thing, the processor would lock up to the point where I could hear what was going on, but just saw a static image of a starship. I'd be clicking on icons in the hopes that something might still happen, but inevitably, some snitch would report me as AFK, and bam, two hour queue ban. That TRIBBLE with my resource acquisition for exchange PvP >_<

    I came to the decision that any time I hit a Red Alert and there was a Scimy on the team, I'd rather quit, and take the thirty minute leaver's penalty, than risk having the computer lock up because it can't process their SpaceMagic and get reported as AFK. Or not be able to kill anything because they BFAWspam the TRIBBLE out of the map and kill everything before I can get to it, and I get lumbered with a two hour ban because the system thinks I've done nothing :-\

    At the end of the day, why give a TRIBBLE what other the players are doing? I've seen posts where you'rs bragging on how your builds can carry a team, so carry the team. Be the Big I Am, and leave other people to get on with their business (or not)

    The Only time I intentionally AFK'd, was the First Contact tournament, because participation made absolutely no difference whatsoever to the reward received. And the trait and stuff won at the end of it? Garbage. Other than that, I'd never intentionally go AFK, as I play the game to, well, play the game. I'm not going to go snitching on someone who is AFKing a run though, I couldn't care less what they do. In a Sompek run, I, the player with maybe a few months under my belt, outlasted one of the Known Name veterans of the forum, and was last toon standing, so I'm clearly not a bad player.

    So seriously, guy, why give a TRIBBLE? Just pretend that they're computer controlled companions like your ground boffs. Have you ever seen an engineering boff set up a turret, and then set up a coverscreen directly in front of said turret? Or ever seen a boff get caught on a coverscreen? Where they're hanging from the back of their jacket on the edge, and trying to run in mid-air? I have. Just consider AFK'ers as instances of where a boff does something like that. Don't let it chap your TRIBBLE, just leave them to it, and use it as an excuse to blow up more stuff ;)
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Really late to the debate on this, but as rule, as Badmoon mentions, I will have a go at anyone who has a go at me for 'not pulling my weight', because they aren't! But that's besides the point for me usually. I love, and will carry a team if I have to. Why, because that's automatically a challenge to me. In this game, everything is so skew-whiff out of balance and OP that it's so easy to carry a team when you know what to do. The one and only player that gets my goat is the AFK'er, and unless it's a genuine emergency, that player will get my wrath of being reported. The Dev's DO NOT do enough to discourage it.
    But how do you tell a true AFK'er?
    A true AFKer is someone who doesn't do what you want.

    At least if you ask the people complaining about it.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Really late to the debate on this, but as rule, as Badmoon mentions, I will have a go at anyone who has a go at me for 'not pulling my weight', because they aren't! But that's besides the point for me usually. I love, and will carry a team if I have to. Why, because that's automatically a challenge to me. In this game, everything is so skew-whiff out of balance and OP that it's so easy to carry a team when you know what to do. The one and only player that gets my goat is the AFK'er, and unless it's a genuine emergency, that player will get my wrath of being reported. The Dev's DO NOT do enough to discourage it.
    But how do you tell a true AFK'er?
    A true AFKer is someone who doesn't do what you want.

    At least if you ask the people complaining about it.

    Ahhh, thank you for the clarification ;)
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,219 Arc User
    My father was a fount of wisdom. One of the many things he taught me is, "You can't fix someone else."

    Allowing your emotions to get the better of you because someone on the internet did something wrong is just an invitation to ulcers, heart trouble, and mental health issues for you, but it has no affect on that TRIBBLE AFKer, (who may be a gold-farming bot anyway.)

    As the song says, "Let it go."
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,219 Arc User
    My father was a fount of wisdom. One of the many things he taught me is, "You can't fix someone else."

    Allowing your emotions to get the better of you because someone on the internet did something wrong is an invitation to ulcers, heart trouble, and mental health issues for you, but it has no affect on that TRIBBLE AFKer, (who may be a gold-farming bot anyway.)

    As the song says, "Let it go."
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    My father was a fount of wisdom. One of the many things he taught me is, "You can't fix someone else."

    Allowing your emotions to get the better of you because someone on the internet did something wrong is an invitation to ulcers, heart trouble, and mental health issues for you, but it has no affect on that **** AFKer, (who may be a gold-farming bot anyway.)

    As the song says, "Let it go."
    Wise words indeed, thanks for sharing them :)
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
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