I like those moderator messages. Obviously not enough to see how many I can collect .
But yeah, the answer's still Dukat. Nobody else can come close.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @artan42 said: > I like those moderator messages. Obviously not enough to see how many I can collect .
Heh, it reminds me of what the admins on StarDestroyer.net would do when they banned somebody. Darth Wong had this pic of clone troopers holding Bail Organa at gunpoint during Order 66, subtitled "It's time for you to leave, ***HOLE".
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Dukat. Nobody else comes close. He's evil on a Human scale. Cardassians are very Human and as such their motives and action can be judged in the same way as we would our own. Dukat cannot even love his own daughter selflessly. He manages to make her whole existence all about him. He has no redeeming features at all.
I would agree that the Cardassians are the most evil in terms of how they treat their own people. Some races are more cruel or duplicitous towards outsiders, but it's only the Cardassians' society in which the supposedly dominant race goes about their daily lives in constant fear of being attacked by their own kind--and it's the only society that has been outright stated not to care in general whether an accused citizen is guilty or innocent. I repeat, Cardassians are the only people who are known to institutionalize such abuse not only toward perceived inferiors, but also toward their own "in-group". What for the likes of the Tal Shiar is a secret abuse of authority is for the Obsidian Order standard procedure.
Dukat. Nobody else comes close. He's evil on a Human scale. Cardassians are very Human and as such their motives and action can be judged in the same way as we would our own. Dukat cannot even love his own daughter selflessly. He manages to make her whole existence all about him. He has no redeeming features at all.
I would agree that the Cardassians are the most evil in terms of how they treat their own people. Some races are more cruel or duplicitous towards outsiders, but it's only the Cardassians' society in which the supposedly dominant race goes about their daily lives in constant fear of being attacked by their own kind--and it's the only society that has been outright stated not to care in general whether an accused citizen is guilty or innocent. I repeat, Cardassians are the only people who are known to institutionalize such abuse not only toward perceived inferiors, but also toward their own "in-group". What for the likes of the Tal Shiar is a secret abuse of authority is for the Obsidian Order standard procedure.
After finishing the DS9 series I would have to agree about the Cardassians and even Dukat!
At the end even the shape-shifter woman wasnt completely malevolent, she cared about her people and was willing to hand over her own freedom and for the first time surrender a war/territory to keep them alive....but Dukat, had no redeeming qualities (as Data put it about Armus.) The character lived a life committing every known form of evil and the only regrets he ever had was he couldnt keep committing them. They literally wrote him as the devil himself, sharing the pah wraiths own personality...thats why they choose him.
..the Kai was a putz, im not surprised she was seduced by the dark side, he dangled power in front of her face and she bit like a fish!
EDIT: I guess the best villains are the ones you love to hate the most.
Personally, I blame War on Terrorism-related shows like 24 glamorizing the "national security über Alles" approach to foreign policy and warfare. ENT began airing a couple months before 9/11 and Section 31 wasn't brought up until season 4. STO and Into Darkness were written way later.
I really have my problems with the redemption of S31 and the whole "Homeland Security" madness following real life events. Enterprise turned completely into a conservative show-off, introducing brave military (MACO) or secret service men protecting us by "doing what needs to be done" (I hate that phrase). DS9 showed that times of crisis come with ethical dilemmas but never let a doubt about S31 nature (their costumes were literally designed to lean onto GeStaPo uniforms for crying out loud).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> @angrytarg said: > starswordc wrote: » > > Personally, I blame War on Terrorism-related shows like 24 glamorizing the "national security über Alles" approach to foreign policy and warfare. ENT began airing a couple months before 9/11 and Section 31 wasn't brought up until season 4. STO and Into Darkness were written way later. > > > > > > > I really have my problems with the redemption of S31 and the whole "Homeland Security" madness following real life events. Enterprise turned completely into a conservative show-off, introducing brave military (MACO) or secret service men protecting us by "doing what needs to be done" (I hate that phrase). DS9 showed that times of crisis come with ethical dilemmas but never let a doubt about S31 nature (their costumes were literally designed to lean onto GeStaPo uniforms for crying out loud).
Mostly agreed, except for the MACO bit. I think one can safely acknowledge openly that Starfleet serves a legitimate and necessary military function when such is called for, without going fully into the mindset of "we are at war all the time and must always look out for ourselves first and foremost, even at our allies' expense". Or, put another way, there's a difference between pragmatism and paranoia.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The MACO unit was necessary given the dangers they faced. They where not ready for their first mission, if they had not been a scripted fiction they would have all gotten themselves killed before it was completed. You cant venture out into the unknown unprepared, thats fool hearty! As much as I hate to say it, they should have listened to the Vulcans. (Ep 1) They where not ready nor did they have an understanding of what awaited them or how to deal with other alien cultures.
Mostly agreed, except for the MACO bit. I think one can safely acknowledge openly that Starfleet serves a legitimate and necessary military function when such is called for, without going fully into the mindset of "we are at war all the time and must always look out for ourselves first and foremost, even at our allies' expense". Or, put another way, there's a difference between pragmatism and paranoia.
Well YMMV on how much we can agree on that but Starfleet's military presence is basically limited to 'heavily armed carrot'. They're always woefully under-prepared for any sort of engagement beyond skirmishes with weaker ships and have no sort of specialised ground forces at all. Their security department differs from the others by wearing a different colour (one they most often share with Engineering) they use no armour or shields and are not armed with anything beyond every other officer.
MACOs do only two things,
1: Draw attention to this lack of protection for security teams when even low level starships are armed with anti-matter weaponry.
2: Play into the same spirit of military fetishism that has existed since the 60s but come to a head about the same time as the black opps fetishism in the early 2000s in the same way S31 did for those people.
They are completely unnecessary from a narrative stand point as they serve the plot in no way that could't be done by making Malcolm have to cross lines in the same way Scotty and Bashir had to with S31 in DS9 and ID.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I like those moderator messages. Obviously not enough to see how many I can collect .
Oh, but I have more! LOL. Thanks, though. I made them to make things a bit easier when doing simple moderation tasks. I do most of my moderating from my phone, and so, it's easier to post one of those when it's not an overly complicated situation. Trying to do BBCode on my phone can get annoying sometimes. LOL
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Well Dukat and by extension the Dominion is are the only choice that can be taken seriously.
Far to many villains in ST are just one offs who just flail around a bit and then disappear. It gets even worse by TNG where the villains tended to be laughably unthreatening with the Enterprise easily trouncing them with little effort.
The Ferengi and Cardassians were introduced to be the new big bad guys only to get ground beneath Starfleet's heel in their first appearances. The Borg wound up being to OP to properly utilize without massive nerfing which ultimately damaged their legacy. Species 8472 were introduced as a new replacement for the Borg but ultimately withered due to a total lack of planning by the show runners. The Xindi tried to be like the Dominion but ultimately suffered due to the shows prequel nature dooming them to being largely irrelevant to history. Then there is the Terran Empire who writers keep writing as endlessly killing each other for command.
As for that previous comment regarding copyrights and public domain. It is a pretty safe bet that sooner or later Disney will push for another extension to keep their iron grip on Mickey. The pro-public domain crowd just isn't organized well enough to counter lobby.
Dukat tried to help the Bajorans...they should have know their place....and checked their Privilege
He's always been pro-Dukat, I don't think he's being "serious", it seems more like a parody of Trump or some craziness like that.
Winning.
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
so what does that make t'ket, then? evil because she knowingly gave hakeev a device she knew would cause hobus to supernova and destroy romulus, or does she get a pass because she was blinded by 200,000 year's worth of vengeance like dukat was blinded by delusions?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I somehow deleted my post when trying to edit commas. I'll try to redo it.
What is evil? No, I'm serious.
Dukat wasn't evil, he was delusional. Right up to the end he believed his actions to be necessary for a greater cause. He was incapable of correctly evaluating the morality of his acts, and utterly convinced he had done his best. Dukat wasn't evil, he was mentally ill.
The Borg Queen and Species 8472 are not evil. Is a lion evil because it kills cute antelopes? It is not evil to be what you were born and bred to be.
Evil is a concious choice to act in a way that harms others solely for one's own benefit. Armus acted evil because he had no potential to act in any other way. He lacked the power of choice. Armus was no more evil than is a nest of red ants. Dangerous, yes, but not evil.
Enter Dr. Pulaski... err, Dr. Jones.
She chose to allow Larry Marvick to fall in love with her, but when he was no longer convenient she rejected him in an excessively cruel manner. What a lovely girl.
In a jealous rage he runs off intending to kill Ambassador Kolloth, but upon viewing the Medusan he goes even more insane and tries to kill everyone. Was Larry evil? No, he was incapable of rational judgement. He was mentally ill.
Our lovely Miranda then became jealous of Mr. Spock's meld with the Ambassador, whom she had viewed as her perrogative. For no better reason than she thought she could get away with it, she caused Spock to forget his protection, and he too goes insane upon viewing a naked Medusan.
Does our heroine at any point choose to help clean up the mess she made? Does she at any point demonstrate remorse for her choices? It is not until Kirk lays out for her the fact that he knows of her part in all this that she agrees to help Spock. Not because she feels guilt, but to prevent Kirk from taking what he knows to the authorities. She helps only to cover her posterior. She is truly evil because she made choices to cause harm to others because she thought she could get away with it.
Dr. Jones is certainly not the most evil Star Trek villain ever, but I use her to demonstrate the difference between bad guys and evil ones. Bad guys aren't necessarily evil. Is a soldier on the opposite side of a war evil?
Evil guys are only truly evil when they could choose otherwise but instead choose to do harm to others for their personal benefit.
so what does that make t'ket, then? evil because she knowingly gave hakeev a device she knew would cause hobus to supernova and destroy romulus, or does she get a pass because she was blinded by 200,000 year's worth of vengeance like dukat was blinded by delusions?
T'ket and the other Iconians may have been suffering PTSD. I certainly got the impression she was suicidal when we were on Iconia. But in 200,000 years she and her friends appeared never to realize the depths to which their shared trauma brought them.
On the other hand, they had 200,000 years to get over it and chose to keep the pain rather than treat it.
I would think that at some point one or another of them would have realized what was happening to them, but right up to the end I saw arrogance, conceit, and blind hate. The tools they used to preserve their lives may have prevented them from overcoming their PTSD, or even made it worse. Fixated on revenge, they ignored that they were their own worst enemy.
So, while I could make a case for mental illness at first, over mellenia there were certainly opportunities to overcome it and they for whatever reason chose not to. Indeed, T'ket may have been the only Iconian who could plead mental illness because she continued the war after the World Heart was returned.
All the rest of the Iconians ceased their war because we demonstrated we could kill Iconians. The return of The World Heart gave them a convenient excuse to avoid the consequences of their choices of the last 200 millenia. They certainly demonstrated that their actions were by choice.
My opinion is that although T'ket was irrational, the rest of the Iconians were motivated by revenge, and were thus evil.
by all rights the Iconians should of laid waste to the alpha quadrant in less then a week! The storyline was rushed in a few areas, especially the end. It had a cheesy Picard diplomacy win...because the writers often had to fit it all into an hour long ep. The iconians where ruthless at this point no relic would of changed their minds especially if one of them fell. They would just begin to appear in front of all the worlds leaders and vaporizing them like the did the high council.
Nurse Ratchet... err, Kai Wynn would pass the evil test. She had a choice and chose morally indefensible acts to acquire personal power.
Dukat, on the other hand, was bloody bonkers. He was a nut looking for a squirrel. He may have begun his career as an evil person, but by the time we first meet him he's already suffering from paranoia and megalomania. Self deluded or culturally deluded, or both, he can no longer distinguish between acts of self aggrandization and acts for the benefit of his family, friends, or nation.
I rather agree with your analysis of the Iconians. As I said, they had a choice. They did what they did because nobody could stop them. Until we proved we could. Then they were ready to take the bribe we offered and stop. This more than any other factor proves they were motivated by nothing but revenge.
What does it say about T'ket that she couldn't stop?
So far the most evil character in STO would have to be Hakeev followed by Gual. Both endangered their own racial survival to obtain personal power, but Hakeev took it a step farther by using members of his own race as currency to purchase his power, fully aware that those given into the custody of his allies were going to experience personal horror and death at their hands. Not only that, but he set up a torture facility with the purpose of feeding his allies more information on other species as well.
I still like to think our player characters are the most evil. We intentionally murder billions of people and purposely allow wars to occur, if not starting them outright, just so we can acquire more weapons to destroy more countless people. We know exactly what we're doing, and continue doing so, without reservation or remorse. We're causing destruction for personal power, but on a ridiculous scale, making us as bad as Hakeev and Gaul combined.
Winning.
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
I still like to think our player characters are the most evil. We intentionally murder billions of people and purposely allow wars to occur, if not starting them outright, just so we can acquire more weapons to destroy more countless people. We know exactly what we're doing, and continue doing so, without reservation or remorse. We're causing destruction for personal power, but on a ridiculous scale, making us as bad as Hakeev and Gaul combined.
...but wouldnt that mean even the DBZ characters all evil? Even the good guys??
Because thats how it feels in mmos, always getting stronger and better weapons to fight endless enemys.
It occurs to me now that we need to establish another rule; do they have to exist, or can we fuse multiple characters together?
...
...Captain Neelix "Wesley" Janeway.
Winning.
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Most evil Borg Queen, genocide against countless species, assimilates all the good stuff from a species then does nothing with it, wouldn't know perfection if it bite her on the processors.
Most interesting (Borg Queen is the least interesting) Dukat, followed by Wyun and the Female Changeling, Khan, Chang, Saron, the Sonar, the Duras Sisters and Sela.
Dishonorable mention Captain Janeway for making a deal with the Borg that lead to genocide of who knows how many species, only to find out later that species they had allied to fight agianst wasn't so bad when you got to know them instead of basing your entire decision on one brief telepathic connection with a bigoted member of the species.
Answers
But yeah, the answer's still Dukat. Nobody else can come close.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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> I like those moderator messages. Obviously not enough to see how many I can collect
Heh, it reminds me of what the admins on StarDestroyer.net would do when they banned somebody. Darth Wong had this pic of clone troopers holding Bail Organa at gunpoint during Order 66, subtitled "It's time for you to leave, ***HOLE".
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I would agree that the Cardassians are the most evil in terms of how they treat their own people. Some races are more cruel or duplicitous towards outsiders, but it's only the Cardassians' society in which the supposedly dominant race goes about their daily lives in constant fear of being attacked by their own kind--and it's the only society that has been outright stated not to care in general whether an accused citizen is guilty or innocent. I repeat, Cardassians are the only people who are known to institutionalize such abuse not only toward perceived inferiors, but also toward their own "in-group". What for the likes of the Tal Shiar is a secret abuse of authority is for the Obsidian Order standard procedure.
After finishing the DS9 series I would have to agree about the Cardassians and even Dukat!
At the end even the shape-shifter woman wasnt completely malevolent, she cared about her people and was willing to hand over her own freedom and for the first time surrender a war/territory to keep them alive....but Dukat, had no redeeming qualities (as Data put it about Armus.) The character lived a life committing every known form of evil and the only regrets he ever had was he couldnt keep committing them. They literally wrote him as the devil himself, sharing the pah wraiths own personality...thats why they choose him.
..the Kai was a putz, im not surprised she was seduced by the dark side, he dangled power in front of her face and she bit like a fish!
EDIT: I guess the best villains are the ones you love to hate the most.
I really have my problems with the redemption of S31 and the whole "Homeland Security" madness following real life events. Enterprise turned completely into a conservative show-off, introducing brave military (MACO) or secret service men protecting us by "doing what needs to be done" (I hate that phrase). DS9 showed that times of crisis come with ethical dilemmas but never let a doubt about S31 nature (their costumes were literally designed to lean onto GeStaPo uniforms for crying out loud).
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> starswordc wrote: »
>
> Personally, I blame War on Terrorism-related shows like 24 glamorizing the "national security über Alles" approach to foreign policy and warfare. ENT began airing a couple months before 9/11 and Section 31 wasn't brought up until season 4. STO and Into Darkness were written way later.
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> I really have my problems with the redemption of S31 and the whole "Homeland Security" madness following real life events. Enterprise turned completely into a conservative show-off, introducing brave military (MACO) or secret service men protecting us by "doing what needs to be done" (I hate that phrase). DS9 showed that times of crisis come with ethical dilemmas but never let a doubt about S31 nature (their costumes were literally designed to lean onto GeStaPo uniforms for crying out loud).
Mostly agreed, except for the MACO bit. I think one can safely acknowledge openly that Starfleet serves a legitimate and necessary military function when such is called for, without going fully into the mindset of "we are at war all the time and must always look out for ourselves first and foremost, even at our allies' expense". Or, put another way, there's a difference between pragmatism and paranoia.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Well YMMV on how much we can agree on that but Starfleet's military presence is basically limited to 'heavily armed carrot'. They're always woefully under-prepared for any sort of engagement beyond skirmishes with weaker ships and have no sort of specialised ground forces at all. Their security department differs from the others by wearing a different colour (one they most often share with Engineering) they use no armour or shields and are not armed with anything beyond every other officer.
MACOs do only two things,
1: Draw attention to this lack of protection for security teams when even low level starships are armed with anti-matter weaponry.
2: Play into the same spirit of military fetishism that has existed since the 60s but come to a head about the same time as the black opps fetishism in the early 2000s in the same way S31 did for those people.
They are completely unnecessary from a narrative stand point as they serve the plot in no way that could't be done by making Malcolm have to cross lines in the same way Scotty and Bashir had to with S31 in DS9 and ID.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Oh, but I have more! LOL. Thanks, though. I made them to make things a bit easier when doing simple moderation tasks. I do most of my moderating from my phone, and so, it's easier to post one of those when it's not an overly complicated situation. Trying to do BBCode on my phone can get annoying sometimes. LOL
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Far to many villains in ST are just one offs who just flail around a bit and then disappear. It gets even worse by TNG where the villains tended to be laughably unthreatening with the Enterprise easily trouncing them with little effort.
The Ferengi and Cardassians were introduced to be the new big bad guys only to get ground beneath Starfleet's heel in their first appearances. The Borg wound up being to OP to properly utilize without massive nerfing which ultimately damaged their legacy. Species 8472 were introduced as a new replacement for the Borg but ultimately withered due to a total lack of planning by the show runners. The Xindi tried to be like the Dominion but ultimately suffered due to the shows prequel nature dooming them to being largely irrelevant to history. Then there is the Terran Empire who writers keep writing as endlessly killing each other for command.
As for that previous comment regarding copyrights and public domain. It is a pretty safe bet that sooner or later Disney will push for another extension to keep their iron grip on Mickey. The pro-public domain crowd just isn't organized well enough to counter lobby.
He's always been pro-Dukat, I don't think he's being "serious", it seems more like a parody of Trump or some craziness like that.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
In the Star Trek universe hes a Caitian, so hes pawsome!
(((Caitian Trump for President of the UFP))) "Make the Federation lolcat again!"
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
What is evil? No, I'm serious.
Dukat wasn't evil, he was delusional. Right up to the end he believed his actions to be necessary for a greater cause. He was incapable of correctly evaluating the morality of his acts, and utterly convinced he had done his best. Dukat wasn't evil, he was mentally ill.
The Borg Queen and Species 8472 are not evil. Is a lion evil because it kills cute antelopes? It is not evil to be what you were born and bred to be.
Evil is a concious choice to act in a way that harms others solely for one's own benefit. Armus acted evil because he had no potential to act in any other way. He lacked the power of choice. Armus was no more evil than is a nest of red ants. Dangerous, yes, but not evil.
Enter Dr. Pulaski... err, Dr. Jones.
She chose to allow Larry Marvick to fall in love with her, but when he was no longer convenient she rejected him in an excessively cruel manner. What a lovely girl.
In a jealous rage he runs off intending to kill Ambassador Kolloth, but upon viewing the Medusan he goes even more insane and tries to kill everyone. Was Larry evil? No, he was incapable of rational judgement. He was mentally ill.
Our lovely Miranda then became jealous of Mr. Spock's meld with the Ambassador, whom she had viewed as her perrogative. For no better reason than she thought she could get away with it, she caused Spock to forget his protection, and he too goes insane upon viewing a naked Medusan.
Does our heroine at any point choose to help clean up the mess she made? Does she at any point demonstrate remorse for her choices? It is not until Kirk lays out for her the fact that he knows of her part in all this that she agrees to help Spock. Not because she feels guilt, but to prevent Kirk from taking what he knows to the authorities. She helps only to cover her posterior. She is truly evil because she made choices to cause harm to others because she thought she could get away with it.
Dr. Jones is certainly not the most evil Star Trek villain ever, but I use her to demonstrate the difference between bad guys and evil ones. Bad guys aren't necessarily evil. Is a soldier on the opposite side of a war evil?
Evil guys are only truly evil when they could choose otherwise but instead choose to do harm to others for their personal benefit.
T'ket and the other Iconians may have been suffering PTSD. I certainly got the impression she was suicidal when we were on Iconia. But in 200,000 years she and her friends appeared never to realize the depths to which their shared trauma brought them.
On the other hand, they had 200,000 years to get over it and chose to keep the pain rather than treat it.
I would think that at some point one or another of them would have realized what was happening to them, but right up to the end I saw arrogance, conceit, and blind hate. The tools they used to preserve their lives may have prevented them from overcoming their PTSD, or even made it worse. Fixated on revenge, they ignored that they were their own worst enemy.
So, while I could make a case for mental illness at first, over mellenia there were certainly opportunities to overcome it and they for whatever reason chose not to. Indeed, T'ket may have been the only Iconian who could plead mental illness because she continued the war after the World Heart was returned.
All the rest of the Iconians ceased their war because we demonstrated we could kill Iconians. The return of The World Heart gave them a convenient excuse to avoid the consequences of their choices of the last 200 millenia. They certainly demonstrated that their actions were by choice.
My opinion is that although T'ket was irrational, the rest of the Iconians were motivated by revenge, and were thus evil.
in that case, Dukat and Kai
by all rights the Iconians should of laid waste to the alpha quadrant in less then a week! The storyline was rushed in a few areas, especially the end. It had a cheesy Picard diplomacy win...because the writers often had to fit it all into an hour long ep. The iconians where ruthless at this point no relic would of changed their minds especially if one of them fell. They would just begin to appear in front of all the worlds leaders and vaporizing them like the did the high council.
Dukat, on the other hand, was bloody bonkers. He was a nut looking for a squirrel. He may have begun his career as an evil person, but by the time we first meet him he's already suffering from paranoia and megalomania. Self deluded or culturally deluded, or both, he can no longer distinguish between acts of self aggrandization and acts for the benefit of his family, friends, or nation.
I rather agree with your analysis of the Iconians. As I said, they had a choice. They did what they did because nobody could stop them. Until we proved we could. Then they were ready to take the bribe we offered and stop. This more than any other factor proves they were motivated by nothing but revenge.
What does it say about T'ket that she couldn't stop?
So far the most evil character in STO would have to be Hakeev followed by Gual. Both endangered their own racial survival to obtain personal power, but Hakeev took it a step farther by using members of his own race as currency to purchase his power, fully aware that those given into the custody of his allies were going to experience personal horror and death at their hands. Not only that, but he set up a torture facility with the purpose of feeding his allies more information on other species as well.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
...but wouldnt that mean even the DBZ characters all evil? Even the good guys??
Because thats how it feels in mmos, always getting stronger and better weapons to fight endless enemys.
...
...Captain Neelix "Wesley" Janeway.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Most interesting (Borg Queen is the least interesting) Dukat, followed by Wyun and the Female Changeling, Khan, Chang, Saron, the Sonar, the Duras Sisters and Sela.
Dishonorable mention Captain Janeway for making a deal with the Borg that lead to genocide of who knows how many species, only to find out later that species they had allied to fight agianst wasn't so bad when you got to know them instead of basing your entire decision on one brief telepathic connection with a bigoted member of the species.