I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
I cycle EPtE1 and EPtS2 with APO3, APD and evasive with 2 tac teams and sci team and HE2 on standby when hit by sci stiff. I can keep up with pilot ships for a little bit. I get drained by pets, then get hit with tykens and before I can move it's a TS3 or 2... or temporal trait stuff... or secondary defector. Also not a lot I can do when my tray gets greyed out and hitting sci team doesn't fix it.
When did sto get so complicated!? Must've been some great expansion that everyone loved...
The problem with nerfing Drain is that it exposes even more imbalances within the game in PVP. Drain was a great counter to high-speed vapers. Remove Drain, then the meta would shift that way. Lower down speed, then damage will take a hit. Lower down damage, then tanking would take a hit. And so on...
If you are going to PVP, then you should build for it. Expect drains, expect vapers and expect sci-wizards.
^^ Most balanced (pun intended) post in the thread! I see people whine because they can't counter Drain; but Drain... is the counter, to their vape builds!
The mantra-meta invariably seems to be "I should be able to kill them outright; but gawd forbid if they can kill me right back!" You don't like being vaped? Drain 'em! You don't like being drained? Vape 'em!
However, "Player investment retains value" should kinda mean you actually did invest in DrainX. So, having only a marginal amount of DrainX point, or (reportedly) none at all, that does undeed seem odd. But anything over 600, and I think you should be allowed to drain another player dry. Just like said player should be allowed to outright vape you.
drain never was the counter to vape ... never will be ....
I agree, to say that the only reason people are complaining about drain is because they can't vape is insane. Everyone I've seen who's had tyken's rift used against them says it's op, not just the supposed "people who can't vape anymore." And going back to your point, drain isn't the counter to being vaped, which makes saying the only people who are complaining about drain are the vapers even more insane. I'm a healer, which is in no way a vaper, and I say it's overpowered.
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
The problem is not every flies fast, nor wants to fly fast. Even being fast doesn't save you all the time. I've seen super speed escorts in pvp matches caught in 3+ tykens rifts and they can't escape. There should be other counters to drain besides flying fast, *cough* nadion inversion *cough*. I've heard of people getting their tyken's rift to drain almost 100 power per second. Using everything that supposedly counters drain (nadion inversion, hazard emitters, etc.) at once won't counter that, not even close.
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
The problem is not every flies fast, nor wants to fly fast. Even being fast doesn't save you all the time. I've seen super speed escorts in pvp matches caught in 3+ tykens rifts and they can't escape. There should be other counters to drain besides flying fast, *cough* nadion inversion *cough*. I've heard of people getting their tyken's rift to drain almost 100 power per second. Using everything that supposedly counters drain (nadion inversion, hazard emitters, etc.) at once won't counter that, not even close.
IDK about you, But my rift drains at -100, and in the new Core assault Map, many people can and do escape. It takes skill and timing to get most people caught in the rift. It is like I click and button and they are screwed. If you are in a slow moving ship with no Jump or HE, thats on you.
Goes back what I said earlier. I adjusted MY build to at least try to survives vapes/dps etc.
So all you whiners, why dont you adjust your builds to fight an drain
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Because here's only 2 builds that survive a drain, tank and science drain. If HE could clear tykens like it's supposed to and if speed tanking actually worked then it'd be fine. Problem is that the second someone pops tykens people in the vicinity become powerless.
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
The problem is not every flies fast, nor wants to fly fast. Even being fast doesn't save you all the time. I've seen super speed escorts in pvp matches caught in 3+ tykens rifts and they can't escape. There should be other counters to drain besides flying fast, *cough* nadion inversion *cough*. I've heard of people getting their tyken's rift to drain almost 100 power per second. Using everything that supposedly counters drain (nadion inversion, hazard emitters, etc.) at once won't counter that, not even close.
IDK about you, But my rift drains at -100, and in the new Core assault Map, many people can and do escape. It takes skill and timing to get most people caught in the rift. It is like I click and button and they are screwed. If you are in a slow moving ship with no Jump or HE, thats on you.
Goes back what I said earlier. I adjusted MY build to at least try to survives vapes/dps etc.
So all you whiners, why dont you adjust your builds to fight an drain
Well of course you're ok with tyken's rift, you're using it LOL.
Let me reiterate my points made previously:
1. Hazard Emitters doesn't work against tyken's rift. Neither does science team, having a sizable amount of drainx (I've heard this from many people testing), Nadion Inversion, EPS Power Transfer, that 10% resistance to subsystem energy drain passive from the skill tree, etc. It's too strong.
2. Speed doesn't always mean you're going to escape from a rift that drains 100+ power per second. In many cases I've seen in PvP, it doesn't.
Dismissing us as "whiners" when we have a valid concern just makes it look like you're denying the fact that there's a major problem.
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
The problem is not every flies fast, nor wants to fly fast. Even being fast doesn't save you all the time. I've seen super speed escorts in pvp matches caught in 3+ tykens rifts and they can't escape. There should be other counters to drain besides flying fast, *cough* nadion inversion *cough*. I've heard of people getting their tyken's rift to drain almost 100 power per second. Using everything that supposedly counters drain (nadion inversion, hazard emitters, etc.) at once won't counter that, not even close.
IDK about you, But my rift drains at -100, and in the new Core assault Map, many people can and do escape. It takes skill and timing to get most people caught in the rift. It is like I click and button and they are screwed. If you are in a slow moving ship with no Jump or HE, thats on you.
Goes back what I said earlier. I adjusted MY build to at least try to survives vapes/dps etc.
So all you whiners, why dont you adjust your builds to fight an drain
Well of course you're ok with tyken's rift, you're using it LOL.
Let me reiterate my points made previously:
1. Hazard Emitters doesn't work against tyken's rift. Neither does science team, having a sizable amount of drainx (I've heard this from many people testing), Nadion Inversion, EPS Power Transfer, that 10% resistance to subsystem energy drain passive from the skill tree, etc. It's too strong.
2. Speed doesn't always mean you're going to escape from a rift that drains 100+ power per second. In many cases I've seen in PvP, it doesn't.
Dismissing us as "whiners" when we have a valid concern just makes it look like you're denying the fact that there's a major problem.
Do you have the Nandi trait "Greedy Emmiters?"...
I never considered drain to be an effective means from stopping a Super Healer/Tanker..Maybe the next Lockbox will have a 4 second drain immunity with..I dunno sci team,Haz or Pol hull..
Im really curious what the current drain rez is set at.. Sounds like Nadda right now.As in there is no drain resistance and any level.
Going the Control Expertise route just made control abilities not worth it at 2:1.. Maybe 1:1 might be an ok idea for drain..Have 300 Drain...Resist 300 drain..
IDK about you, But my rift drains at -100, and in the new Core assault Map, many people can and do escape. It takes skill and timing to get most people caught in the rift. It is like I click and button and they are screwed. If you are in a slow moving ship with no Jump or HE, thats on you.
Goes back what I said earlier. I adjusted MY build to at least try to survives vapes/dps etc.
So all you whiners, why dont you adjust your builds to fight an drain
Well of course you're ok with tyken's rift, you're using it LOL.
Let me reiterate my points made previously:
1. Hazard Emitters doesn't work against tyken's rift. Neither does science team, having a sizable amount of drainx (I've heard this from many people testing), Nadion Inversion, EPS Power Transfer, that 10% resistance to subsystem energy drain passive from the skill tree, etc. It's too strong.
2. Speed doesn't always mean you're going to escape from a rift that drains 100+ power per second. In many cases I've seen in PvP, it doesn't.
Dismissing us as "whiners" when we have a valid concern just makes it look like you're denying the fact that there's a major problem.
I've almost literally just (about an hour ago) had a pvp run against someone with 90 active DrainX while I was in the build I outlined previously running ~370 DrainX and Tykens III. He escaped 90% of the time, even when I timed the Tykens to land just after Nukara web mines held him. He wasn't using anything particularly special, just EPtE, batteries and a few other traits to boost his manoeuvrability and power levels when my drains landed.
I am absolutely on board for saying that things need to be looked at, especially when a new system drops, but with a case like that as an example, I don't think it can be said that Tykens is 'too strong' when an emergency power ability and batteries can overcome it with ease.
Yes, adjustments need to be made, but it's perhaps not the mechanics in this instance...
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
And this is kinda the problem with any PvP content. The difference between a high level build and a low level build is probably greater than that between a low level 60 player and a player on a new toon. I've several toons but I've been levelling to 60 plus a bit then moving on for the resource gathering etc so none have a great deal of high level gear and I've zero interest to go to PhD level efforts to maximise loadouts, skilltrees, abilities, macros etc. On my current working toon my usual speed is about 20, maybe, and I think I hit about 115 at full impulse. There's no way I'm hitting 160-200 without some serious gear acquisitions and upgrades. If I get hit by Tykens Rift my ship locks up and I'm dead in about 5 seconds, though to be fair I'm unlikely to notice what's causing the problem because there's way too many icons onscreen and none of them are in any way meaningful. Hmm maybe I should start a separate thread about that?
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
And this is kinda the problem with any PvP content. The difference between a high level build and a low level build is probably greater than that between a low level 60 player and a player on a new toon. I've several toons but I've been levelling to 60 plus a bit then moving on for the resource gathering etc so none have a great deal of high level gear and I've zero interest to go to PhD level efforts to maximise loadouts, skilltrees, abilities, macros etc. On my current working toon my usual speed is about 20, maybe, and I think I hit about 115 at full impulse. There's no way I'm hitting 160-200 without some serious gear acquisitions and upgrades. If I get hit by Tykens Rift my ship locks up and I'm dead in about 5 seconds, though to be fair I'm unlikely to notice what's causing the problem because there's way too many icons onscreen and none of them are in any way meaningful. Hmm maybe I should start a separate thread about that?
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
SO..I guess I should say..100..Mostly cuz with high en power in a wells im at around 80-100 impulse with EmpE..160 is with some Extra stuff (traits and what not) :P
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
-46 per sec, that's a very weak drain for one, secondly you have abilities which disable you completely, disable engines for e.g lukari t4, and that's one of many, and I assure you you're not going anywhere when all your subs hit 0, in theory you can pop batteries but at over 100/sec it is pointless.
I have points in drain resist/skill because I like to play around with Polarons and tetryon.
Sci team can clear some of the sci stuff being thrown around but the second that tykens hits aux power goes to 0 and hazards will be greyed out. Sometimes momentum can carry me through and I get some power back, if they're not using reverse repulsors or in 1 case tholian mines (I cleared it with sci team but I'd come to a stop and tykens was up).
My build is well rounded for support and versatility not for vaping. It's a t5u fleet Defiant so I can alphastrike (thissler style) but it requires good timing and favourable circumstances.
I use a mk14 fleet shield and fleet amp core with either iconian 2 piece or CC 2 piece, with fluidic weapon 2 piece and Borg weapon 2 piece. 2 fleet neutroniums with turn and a conductive rcs. Spire consoles, acc3 dbb, DHCx2, either neutronic torps or phased quantum. A cloaking device for giggles and the phased set console or plasmonic depending on my mood.
I'll welcome tips but I don't want an OP minmaxed build that's only a 1 trick pony.
But I still don't know how I can get a solid hit with a HY3 on a pilot escort with shields down and they survive with over 50%, yet I get hit with TS3 neutronic while my shield are up and I die.
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
-46 per sec, that's a very weak drain for one, secondly you have abilities which disable you completely, disable engines for e.g lukari t4, and that's one of many, and I assure you you're not going anywhere when all your subs hit 0, in theory you can pop batteries but at over 100/sec it is pointless.
Well..Im not specialized in drain...I fly an EPG drain Hybrid.Have been since the release of the Research Consoles. The Lukari trait is a disable and probably has a minimum lock out time.
I dont worry much about drains..I know what works against em. and Until Cryptic gives me more anti drain tools..Ill use what ive got.
You guys will be "thrilled" to hear that drain is getting another balance pass this thursday according to the Q&A livestream yesterday. Borticus said they clearly went too far. Tyken's rift was underperforming before season 13 and is now too strong. So don't upgrade those drain consoles just yet
You guys will be "thrilled" to hear that drain is getting another balance pass this thursday according to the Q&A livestream yesterday. Borticus said they clearly went too far. Tyken's rift was underperforming before season 13 and is now too strong. So don't upgrade those drain consoles just yet
Does someone have a link to this (presumably) vid?! Thx.
You guys will be "thrilled" to hear that drain is getting another balance pass this thursday according to the Q&A livestream yesterday. Borticus said they clearly went too far. Tyken's rift was underperforming before season 13 and is now too strong. So don't upgrade those drain consoles just yet
Does someone have a link to this (presumably) vid?! Thx.
Yeah, because people cba to learn to deal with it, let's hit it with the nerbat. In the meantime, we have meta-build tactical captains zipping round the new queues at impulse factor 1000, vaping entire teams and seemingly immune to all counters, but that's ok - nerf sci. Again.
I'll have to beg to differ. I had tac captains ignoring Tykens III rifts with 450 drain on my klink last night, simply because they had equipped to deal with getting away from it. If they're going to balance around people that can't play, it's only going to make things even more lopsided for the PvP vapers with top builds who queue the new stf's so they can troll the nubs.
I'm not sure Cryptic should be encouraging even more people to abandon this niche side of the game. There's not much incentive to run the new queues and their accompanying rep when you're getting insta-gibbed by other players.
There was plenty of time to balance the changes on Tribble, yet science got nerfed the hardest while being the least performing. Was it really necessary to nerf Grav Well damage? Nerf ControlX so we can't group mobs anywhere near as effectively? Nerf torps (like they needed it)? They'll likely nerf the overall effectiveness of DrainX while they're at it. I doubt they'll stop at Tyken's.
I thought we'd moved away from the, "Go tactical or go home" philosophy of STO, that dominated for so many years.
I can just about get away from a tykens 1 or 2 and that is on the off chance that no one notices I'm caught in it. I have to hit EPtE1 (if it's available), APO (if it's available) and evasive with a bit of BFI. Having said that, once my power is drained, all someone has to do is sneeze on me to take me out because I'll have no power within a second. It's an "I win" button. It should be powerful but not ignore resists like it is now.
You guys will be "thrilled" to hear that drain is getting another balance pass this thursday according to the Q&A livestream yesterday. Borticus said they clearly went too far. Tyken's rift was underperforming before season 13 and is now too strong. So don't upgrade those drain consoles just yet
Cryptic has had a very off & on affair with Tykien's Rift.
At launch it was very strong.
Not long after that, they nerfed it into complete, total uselessness for both PVP and PVE and it stayed that way for ages. Drains were easy to resist.
Now it's strong.
Now it looks like it's going to get put into oblivion again.
There is no middle ground in these balance passes.
How are drains affecting different levels of DrainX builds in the target?
- Are people complaining about Drain attacks when they had poor or mediocre DrainX to begin with?
- How much DrainX did the Science Drain Build have to do to make it worthwhile? Honest question here, I had given up on Drain Builds before the Captain Skills Revamp late last year because they sucked no matter how much I specced into it.
It's one thing if someone has a very high DrainX that is getting crushed by low DrainX Drain Builds.
It's another if someone has poor DrainX but is complaining about the effects of a dedicated Drain Build.
Should people have it easy to resist Drain Attacks because they don't feel like bothering having a defense against it? Cryptic agreed with that before, because I still remember in the original Skill System that the devs buffed Power Insulators Skill to greatly resist Drains where a few ticks in the boxes and you were set to ignore SCI Drain Builds. It required a handful of Drain Science Vessels to lock down a single Escort.
It wouldn't surprise me if Drains go back into that same useless niche again.
I've parsed a 200k+ CCA on my sci officer. In the right team with the right abilities and co-ordination, even poor players with sub-standard builds can post high dps. The numbers on sto-league say otherwise with regards to who got hit the hardest with the balance pass. Sci is behind tactical and eng in all instances and is significantly behind tactical. I don't know whether the percentage difference was the same before the pass as I've only recently started parsing my runs, but the gap is quite large.
Let's see the parse or it didn't happen, and I don't just mean burst damage, it's got to be sustained for at least a few minutes. Let's also see the parses that support your claim here, you can't just come here with statements lacking evidence. I've been parsing for years and do so every day and your story is the opposite of what I'm seeing. The other ships on my parse shown above, for example, were all tac ships.
Eh? Since when did CCA runs last a few minutes? That's OBVIOUSLY burst/aoe damage. My top ISA is about 50k currently, which is abysmal considering the current S13 recorded run is topping nearly 210k (yes, tactical), but I recorded that in a pug. So much for the FAW "nerf" anyway
If you want, you'll find my parse of that CCA uploaded to the DPS League. Filter table by CCA, that's me at number 28.
Comments
A doffed TBR aint as mean as it was pre season 13. But it counter is literally a click away..IF you run Pol-hull..Or at least ApO or Aux2Damp just to get out of the hold (still damaged by Tbr)..You cant build for all eventualities.
If your getting hit by a tykens and your Aux is dropping instantly..It was probably very low to begin with.. I recently PVPed with a Eng Captain in an Aux2Bat Eclipse who I couldn't make sit still long enough for 300 drain expertise Tykens 3 (-46all per sec) to even hurt..He used no other common counters outside of just being Fast...There are players Ive caught with a tykens 1 (-27all per sec) in Core but they were moving very slow (like 35 engine power or less that 1km per sec)..
Ive also employed that same strategy in Core vs good players spaming tykens (though I was employing other anti drain tactics)..Fly Fast 160-200 impulse on a Wells(in my sig pic :P) and you wont be bothered by tykens.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
When did sto get so complicated!? Must've been some great expansion that everyone loved...
I agree, to say that the only reason people are complaining about drain is because they can't vape is insane. Everyone I've seen who's had tyken's rift used against them says it's op, not just the supposed "people who can't vape anymore." And going back to your point, drain isn't the counter to being vaped, which makes saying the only people who are complaining about drain are the vapers even more insane. I'm a healer, which is in no way a vaper, and I say it's overpowered.
The problem is not every flies fast, nor wants to fly fast. Even being fast doesn't save you all the time. I've seen super speed escorts in pvp matches caught in 3+ tykens rifts and they can't escape. There should be other counters to drain besides flying fast, *cough* nadion inversion *cough*. I've heard of people getting their tyken's rift to drain almost 100 power per second. Using everything that supposedly counters drain (nadion inversion, hazard emitters, etc.) at once won't counter that, not even close.
IDK about you, But my rift drains at -100, and in the new Core assault Map, many people can and do escape. It takes skill and timing to get most people caught in the rift. It is like I click and button and they are screwed. If you are in a slow moving ship with no Jump or HE, thats on you.
Goes back what I said earlier. I adjusted MY build to at least try to survives vapes/dps etc.
So all you whiners, why dont you adjust your builds to fight an drain
Well of course you're ok with tyken's rift, you're using it LOL.
Let me reiterate my points made previously:
1. Hazard Emitters doesn't work against tyken's rift. Neither does science team, having a sizable amount of drainx (I've heard this from many people testing), Nadion Inversion, EPS Power Transfer, that 10% resistance to subsystem energy drain passive from the skill tree, etc. It's too strong.
2. Speed doesn't always mean you're going to escape from a rift that drains 100+ power per second. In many cases I've seen in PvP, it doesn't.
Dismissing us as "whiners" when we have a valid concern just makes it look like you're denying the fact that there's a major problem.
Do you have the Nandi trait "Greedy Emmiters?"...
I never considered drain to be an effective means from stopping a Super Healer/Tanker..Maybe the next Lockbox will have a 4 second drain immunity with..I dunno sci team,Haz or Pol hull..
Im really curious what the current drain rez is set at.. Sounds like Nadda right now.As in there is no drain resistance and any level.
Going the Control Expertise route just made control abilities not worth it at 2:1.. Maybe 1:1 might be an ok idea for drain..Have 300 Drain...Resist 300 drain..
Thoughts?
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
I've almost literally just (about an hour ago) had a pvp run against someone with 90 active DrainX while I was in the build I outlined previously running ~370 DrainX and Tykens III. He escaped 90% of the time, even when I timed the Tykens to land just after Nukara web mines held him. He wasn't using anything particularly special, just EPtE, batteries and a few other traits to boost his manoeuvrability and power levels when my drains landed.
I am absolutely on board for saying that things need to be looked at, especially when a new system drops, but with a case like that as an example, I don't think it can be said that Tykens is 'too strong' when an emergency power ability and batteries can overcome it with ease.
Yes, adjustments need to be made, but it's perhaps not the mechanics in this instance...
Stop new content until quality returns
SO..I guess I should say..100..Mostly cuz with high en power in a wells im at around 80-100 impulse with EmpE..160 is with some Extra stuff (traits and what not) :P
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
-46 per sec, that's a very weak drain for one, secondly you have abilities which disable you completely, disable engines for e.g lukari t4, and that's one of many, and I assure you you're not going anywhere when all your subs hit 0, in theory you can pop batteries but at over 100/sec it is pointless.
Well..Im not specialized in drain...I fly an EPG drain Hybrid.Have been since the release of the Research Consoles. The Lukari trait is a disable and probably has a minimum lock out time.
I dont worry much about drains..I know what works against em. and Until Cryptic gives me more anti drain tools..Ill use what ive got.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Does someone have a link to this (presumably) vid?! Thx.
Thx.
Fast losing patience with this game.
I'm not sure Cryptic should be encouraging even more people to abandon this niche side of the game. There's not much incentive to run the new queues and their accompanying rep when you're getting insta-gibbed by other players.
There was plenty of time to balance the changes on Tribble, yet science got nerfed the hardest while being the least performing. Was it really necessary to nerf Grav Well damage? Nerf ControlX so we can't group mobs anywhere near as effectively? Nerf torps (like they needed it)? They'll likely nerf the overall effectiveness of DrainX while they're at it. I doubt they'll stop at Tyken's.
I thought we'd moved away from the, "Go tactical or go home" philosophy of STO, that dominated for so many years.
It's an "I win" button. It should be powerful but not ignore resists like it is now.
Cryptic has had a very off & on affair with Tykien's Rift.
At launch it was very strong.
Not long after that, they nerfed it into complete, total uselessness for both PVP and PVE and it stayed that way for ages. Drains were easy to resist.
Now it's strong.
Now it looks like it's going to get put into oblivion again.
There is no middle ground in these balance passes.
How are drains affecting different levels of DrainX builds in the target?
- Are people complaining about Drain attacks when they had poor or mediocre DrainX to begin with?
- How much DrainX did the Science Drain Build have to do to make it worthwhile? Honest question here, I had given up on Drain Builds before the Captain Skills Revamp late last year because they sucked no matter how much I specced into it.
It's one thing if someone has a very high DrainX that is getting crushed by low DrainX Drain Builds.
It's another if someone has poor DrainX but is complaining about the effects of a dedicated Drain Build.
Should people have it easy to resist Drain Attacks because they don't feel like bothering having a defense against it? Cryptic agreed with that before, because I still remember in the original Skill System that the devs buffed Power Insulators Skill to greatly resist Drains where a few ticks in the boxes and you were set to ignore SCI Drain Builds. It required a handful of Drain Science Vessels to lock down a single Escort.
It wouldn't surprise me if Drains go back into that same useless niche again.
I've parsed a 200k+ CCA on my sci officer. In the right team with the right abilities and co-ordination, even poor players with sub-standard builds can post high dps. The numbers on sto-league say otherwise with regards to who got hit the hardest with the balance pass. Sci is behind tactical and eng in all instances and is significantly behind tactical. I don't know whether the percentage difference was the same before the pass as I've only recently started parsing my runs, but the gap is quite large.
Eh? Since when did CCA runs last a few minutes? That's OBVIOUSLY burst/aoe damage. My top ISA is about 50k currently, which is abysmal considering the current S13 recorded run is topping nearly 210k (yes, tactical), but I recorded that in a pug. So much for the FAW "nerf" anyway
If you want, you'll find my parse of that CCA uploaded to the DPS League. Filter table by CCA, that's me at number 28.
*Tyken's Rift now only drains current power in subsystems, instead of also reducing subsystems' ability to regenerate.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.