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Season 13: Real reason for balancing: "PvP"?

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  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 3,263 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Super exciting news assuming match making works decently.

    Federation and republicans must feel the wrath of Terran, Imperial, and Klingon Defense Forces!

    They were working on it in 2010, and couldn't put it up for player review until now, so after 7 years it OUGHT to be at least 50% functioning.

    but...don't expect actual pvp-for one thing, the storyline doesn't support allowance for it, for another, nobody at cryptic studios has any experience developing for it. (those who did, don't work at Cryptic anymore).

    WHat is wrong with PvP? It doesn't have to be K vs F or anything like that...just call it war games. No need for PvP to have to be faction vs faction.

    Factions are useless in this MMO...why even bother playing as a KDF unless for sentimental reasons or RP.
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  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    They should spend a year revamping Klingons and making them the epic enemy they used to be. The Feds have had enough stuff to keep them happy. Devote a year to the KDF with the odd release for Feds to bring the population back.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    They should remove the restrictions so that people could choose to play the K/R storylines without losing out on all the stuff that's Fed-only.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    storules wrote: »
    Factions are useless in this MMO...why even bother playing as a KDF unless for sentimental reasons or RP.
    Well, they still have the best Raider.

    And... uh...

    Unique races? Most KDF races have some unique options for Ground Combat. For the next recruiting event, I'm thinking of making a Lethean into a discount Darth Maul (assuming KDF is allowed to participate in the recruiting event).

    So... yeah. Play KDF so you can be faux Darth Maul in a D4x! Can't do that on the blue side!
    They should spend a year revamping Klingons and making them the epic enemy they used to be. The Feds have had enough stuff to keep them happy. Devote a year to the KDF with the odd release for Feds to bring the population back.
    It's going to be difficult to justify spending a year's worth of development on less than 20% of the playerbase. The PvP revamp is going on because of the high ratio of PvP oriented players on consoles.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    as for "best" raider?

    Ouroboros, which is cross-faction and has all the KDF tricks.
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Once you get used to Tactical Manuvers, other Raiders seem sluggish in comparison. The Ouroboros has more Temporal Shenanigans, but the "rebalance" is taking a bite out of most of them.

    I think the Baltim is better than the Ouroboros. It comes with a nice trait and an Enhanced Subspace Jump console. I've been thinking about getting a Baltim for one of my Fed characters.
  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    Thing is, you have to spend money to make money, it's a tough concept but it's one that a company like cryptic would benefit from. But it's probably not going to happen.
    Shame, I liked the KDF.
    Especially FvK PvP. Nothing as thrilling as playing Fed, hearing cloaked ships buffing for an alpha and seeing the chat rage from Feds doing full impulse into the centre of the map and wondering how they got taken out in 2 seconds. Good times.
  • syriliansyrilian Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    I've said it before, so I'll say it again. IMO rebalancing is being done to sell retrain tokens. I really don't see this making any real dif to pvp considering how much other than captain/boff skills unbalances things now.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    kind of beside the point. The "Temporal Shenanigans" being "Nerfed" is a misnomer too. for example, clears have had a hrd cooldown applied, counters included in that, and radii for AOE temporal effects were increased, and of course, no counters if you don't have Temporal seating.
    What do you mean? Monotanium Consoles now have an equal amount of Physical resistance. Neutronium Consoles now resist all damage (including Physical, Radiation, Electrical and Proton). Engineering Fleet now gives a massive all damage resistance buff. All damaging Temporal powers have had their damage reduced by about 33%. After that, Rapid Decay and Entropic Cascade only deal half damage to players.

    What have they not addressed in the new balance patch?
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    Yeah, called it. Kind of obvious: Balance needs to be addressed as PVP is traditionally the end-game of MMOs and is a huge part of the console market. They definitely want to protect their investment of porting to consoles, and if console players decide STO PVP is garbage, they're gone, never to return until it's fixed. Beyond elementary.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    Yeah, called it. Kind of obvious: Balance needs to be addressed as PVP is traditionally the end-game of MMOs and is a huge part of the console market. They definitely want to protect their investment of porting to consoles, and if console players decide STO PVP is garbage, they're gone, never to return until it's fixed. Beyond elementary.

    the problem is one that Cryptic's beaten before with STO; conventional wisdom in 2010 when t he game was being formulated for PC, was that an MMO had to have a strong PvP component to be successful.

    Cryptic beat that assumption and managed to exceed the optimistic projections of the original release hype, by surviving 7 years where most of the "not WoW" games lasted five at the most.

    the last THREE years have been an exercise in proving you don't have to have a balanced combat system, and that your game can survive on a mix of celebrity guest spots and unregulated power-creep so long as it's tied to a beloved IP.

    It can even Prosper.

    which really calls into question the management logic that "now that they're pursuing consoles, they're fixing PvP".

    It doesn't really match up, does it? Not with the same managment, anyway. People function on feedback loops-results that profit them they will repeat, results that are not profitable will be abandoned minus some external constraint.

    examples might include hitting a "Limit"-the powercreep this time didn't sell as well as the last one, and so on.

    but this absolutely is a reversal of Cryptic policy-for a steady six years since release, the developers have been hostile to, and removed relevance from, PvP in the game. upshot is, I don't think the console PvP market is even in consideration here as a primary actuating force.

    I suspect it's a contributing factor, but the larger force is coming from hitting that aforementioned 'wall' where power-creep has gotten to the point in terms fo what can be sold, that they've run out of ways to sell it short of giving dev tools to the players themselves.

    perhaps even a diminishing returns where it's costing them more to create, than they're pulling in. certainly the time-shift between what they were able to create in 8 months for Legacy of Romulus vs. what they were able to do in 18 months for Agents of Yesterday is something of an indicator.

    The PC market and the console market is not the same. The PC market is used to a genre of RPG and adventure games being solo. The console market is no longer the same. It used to be the same way until the advent of Playstation Network and Xbox Online, and the First Person Shooter TRIBBLE-talking PVP market has since become the biggest revenue generator. Look at Call of Duty/Medal of Honor/World at War, where they re-release essentially the same game every year with minor changes/window dressing, and try to tell me I'm wrong. Double-check Twitch and Youtube, whose livestreams are dominated by these genres, if you need more confirmation.

    PVE doesn't need a balance pass as it's a cakewalk no matter what you do. PVP (a major component of ANY game's console strategy) needed this desperately.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
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