I agree this is going to probably be a good thing. IDC about the rebalancing I'm looking forward to it, I've been keeping up on it and its not like the game will be unplayable. Unless you are actively DPS building it probably won't even affect you all that much. It'll bring fresh new ideas for build possibities.The attempt to add new PvP content even in the form of team race-to-finish-first or highest score wins is better than the current state of things. All in all based on today's announcement s13 is bringing a lot of welcome changes.. keep an open mind!
New Reputation for Season 13. Too soon after the Lukari one.
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
PvP queues back to STO....aren't we a bit too late for this? Good or Bad it will bring noobs and others might leave...exciting or NOT???
GECKO said back in January during a Priority One Podcasts that PVP was top of their list for things to revamp, and mused over a possible PVP revamp that involved two teams competing against each other to solve an objective like "rescue so many colonists from this colony that is under attack!" or something similar.
These "war games" seem to be exactly that, so yes, it seems they are finally rolling out a PVP revamp of some kind.
I remain cautiously optimistic. PVP is fun as it is, provided you arrange battles with evenly matched opponents, we do allot of it infleet from time to time. One month goes by with only teamed PVE then suddenly loads of PVP interest for no fathomable reason. As for PVP queues and competitive PVE, I'm all for it so long as people arent stuck fighting way out of their weight class. I'm a midrange kind of guy, and happily so, I can plough any advanced space PVE and hold my own in many PVP scenarios, but there is a weight class that I should not be fighting in. I neither wish to endlessly crush new players, nor be instantly vaped by 200k+ guys, rather a more evenly matched scenario based on PVP results convalescing into an overall matchmaking rating. I've seen this system in other games and aside from a painful beginning (which can be asuaged with the aforementioned friendly fleet PVP in STO), I don't see how it wouldn't work here. Provided it's not broken of course lol! That said if you arent wanting to PVP, then making the rewards more generic and not tied to some special gear would mean you can just ignore the system amd stick to what you like.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
PvP queues back to STO....aren't we a bit too late for this? Good or Bad it will bring noobs and others might leave...exciting or NOT???
Makes sense that they use the unlucky number 13 for something PVP related.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I sense there's someone in the Dev team who thinks PVP is a good thing.
The balance changes serve no real purpose beyond making PVP slightly more viable - they narrow the gap between cannon/beam and single / multi target focuses and address the existence of "must have" consoles - but those are ultimately cosmetic in PVE, unless you're the sort that gets stressed when a run takes 5 minutes longer.
Competitive PVE is just formally acknowledging what chunks of the community were already doing - namely, competing for the biggest numbers. Mixing it with PVP is probably the marketing essential to ensure that non-PVPers don't get left out, but if it's an excuse to work in a matching system... great.
As to the mentioned "exploit"? I don't really have an issue with that... frankly it smacks of treating the game as a job, but whatever works... it's not like it hurts other players, even to the degree that the current over-publicised meta does.
Yeah, I personally am not real happy with this move towards PVP style play.
They tried that as the basis for the game when it was first released and it almost died.
As someone said above, all this will do is lead to a lot of Dev time wasted on endless balancing work, that in the end, will never be right.
I tend to agree as well. PvP is NOT PvE and both systems usually can't be balanced equally. The requirements are much more different to take down an NPC than it is to take down another human player behind the keyboard. There should be innate variations to each and this might be asking for trouble.
I can't wait for the whining in these forums that PvP is NOT fair...AGAIN.
I remain cautiously optimistic.
PVP is fun as it is, provided you arrange battles with evenly matched opponents, we do allot of it infleet from time to time. One month goes by with only teamed PVE then suddenly loads of PVP interest for no fathomable reason.
As for PVP queues and competitive PVE, I'm all for it so long as people arent stuck fighting way out of their weight class.
I'm a midrange kind of guy, and happily so, I can plough any advanced space PVE and hold my own in many PVP scenarios, but there is a weight class that I should not be fighting in.
I neither wish to endlessly crush new players, nor be instantly vaped by 200k+ guys, rather a more evenly matched scenario based on PVP results convalescing into an overall matchmaking rating. I've seen this system in other games and aside from a painful beginning (which can be asuaged with the aforementioned friendly fleet PVP in STO), I don't see how it wouldn't work here. Provided it's not broken of course lol!
That said if you arent wanting to PVP, then making the rewards more generic and not tied to some special gear would mean you can just ignore the system amd stick to what you like.
reasons to be optimistic: Geko mentioned PvP in one interview this year and didn't slam it.
reasons not to be:
1. we've got 'war games' PvP already-and it already has almost no audience outside of prearranged in-fleet activity among some, but neither most nor most of the large, ones.
2. up in the air about whether they've addressed the "One team lays down" problem that ended PvP rewards back in 2012. To be honest, it's doubtful this was even considered, much less addressed.
3. it's explicitly described as 'competitive PvE'-which means it's probably configured mostly if not entirely for the PvE activity, but involves teams. WHy? because that's an easy way to get around problem 2. NPC's don't agree to lay down and let one team win for the sake of purple-ribbon rewards.
What makes you say PvP rewards "ended" in 2012? There are still PvP rewards. Were there some more rewards before that then?
As far as I can tell, the rewards are still the same as ever. It's just that, after the score quota was raised (I don't remember when that was) and with the increase of PvE speed and rewards, it's just no longer time-efficient to play the 3 matches needed for the dailies, even cooperatively.
A shame, really. Coop-PvP was fun, creative and social. Beat CCA-grinding for sure, in experience if not in reward.
Personally, I am more confused... I mean... didn we get a new season just shortly... And it didn really add anything?
Sure, it's nice that the PvPers get a little and all that (gotta throw everyone a broken bone every now and then) but I just feel a season should have more than a rep, a few minor tweaks and 2-3 missions?
Seems like you're selling S13 a tad short...
- Rebalancing changes, affecting all 3 careers and most ships/builds/skills to some degree
- New Rep
- New FE
- New mechanic for escorts
- New matchmaking system
- New type of indirect PvP, in the form of competitive PvE
- Etc.
More than just "a few minor tweaks"
I am talking about 12... should have mentioned that..
That said... The rebalancing is already ongoing...
A new rep?`So what... there is nothing really new about that.
The rest is somewhat appealing but still...
I think Devs just decided to call it Season 13 to make it more "palatable" to those peeved by the ongoing balancing. With the amount of nerfs coming I'm sure from their end there was lot of work done. It would have been better to call it 12.5 season but Devs' call.
All good points. Is anyone surprised at how this got rolled out? I see forum posting that talked about most people couldn't care for PvP yet here we are now.
I remain cautiously optimistic.
PVP is fun as it is, provided you arrange battles with evenly matched opponents, we do allot of it infleet from time to time. One month goes by with only teamed PVE then suddenly loads of PVP interest for no fathomable reason.
As for PVP queues and competitive PVE, I'm all for it so long as people arent stuck fighting way out of their weight class.
I'm a midrange kind of guy, and happily so, I can plough any advanced space PVE and hold my own in many PVP scenarios, but there is a weight class that I should not be fighting in.
I neither wish to endlessly crush new players, nor be instantly vaped by 200k+ guys, rather a more evenly matched scenario based on PVP results convalescing into an overall matchmaking rating. I've seen this system in other games and aside from a painful beginning (which can be asuaged with the aforementioned friendly fleet PVP in STO), I don't see how it wouldn't work here. Provided it's not broken of course lol!
That said if you arent wanting to PVP, then making the rewards more generic and not tied to some special gear would mean you can just ignore the system amd stick to what you like.
reasons to be optimistic: Geko mentioned PvP in one interview this year and didn't slam it.
reasons not to be:
1. we've got 'war games' PvP already-and it already has almost no audience outside of prearranged in-fleet activity among some, but neither most nor most of the large, ones.
2. up in the air about whether they've addressed the "One team lays down" problem that ended PvP rewards back in 2012. To be honest, it's doubtful this was even considered, much less addressed.
3. it's explicitly described as 'competitive PvE'-which means it's probably configured mostly if not entirely for the PvE activity, but involves teams. WHy? because that's an easy way to get around problem 2. NPC's don't agree to lay down and let one team win for the sake of purple-ribbon rewards.
What makes you say PvP rewards "ended" in 2012? There are still PvP rewards. Were there some more rewards before that then?
Yes. Completing PvP would reward you with "medals", like the old old STFs, which you could then use at special vendors located on Deep Space K-7 and Ganalda station. It part of the reason why DSK7 became sort of a ingame home for me.
Also your got a then largish skill point and Ec reward if I remember rightly.
Personally, I am more confused... I mean... didn we get a new season just shortly... And it didn really add anything?
Sure, it's nice that the PvPers get a little and all that (gotta throw everyone a broken bone every now and then) but I just feel a season should have more than a rep, a few minor tweaks and 2-3 missions?
Seems like you're selling S13 a tad short...
- Rebalancing changes, affecting all 3 careers and most ships/builds/skills to some degree
- New Rep
- New FE
- New mechanic for escorts
- New matchmaking system
- New type of indirect PvP, in the form of competitive PvE
- Etc.
More than just "a few minor tweaks"
I am talking about 12... should have mentioned that..
That said... The rebalancing is already ongoing...
A new rep?`So what... there is nothing really new about that.
The rest is somewhat appealing but still...
I think Devs just decided to call it Season 13 to make it more "palatable" to those peeved by the ongoing balancing. With the amount of nerfs coming I'm sure from their end there was lot of work done. It would have been better to call it 12.5 season but Devs' call.
All good points. Is anyone surprised at how this got rolled out? I see forum posting that talked about most people couldn't care for PvP yet here we are now.
Most players do not care for PvP. Wonder what led to the outcome to invest in PvP now. Could be a welcome change for the few remaining PvPers in here.
Super exciting news assuming match making works decently.
Federation and republicans must feel the wrath of Terran, Imperial, and Klingon Defense Forces!
They were working on it in 2010, and couldn't put it up for player review until now, so after 7 years it OUGHT to be at least 50% functioning.
but...don't expect actual pvp-for one thing, the storyline doesn't support allowance for it, for another, nobody at cryptic studios has any experience developing for it. (those who did, don't work at Cryptic anymore).
WHat is wrong with PvP? It doesn't have to be K vs F or anything like that...just call it war games. No need for PvP to have to be faction vs faction.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I remain cautiously optimistic.
PVP is fun as it is, provided you arrange battles with evenly matched opponents, we do allot of it infleet from time to time. One month goes by with only teamed PVE then suddenly loads of PVP interest for no fathomable reason.
As for PVP queues and competitive PVE, I'm all for it so long as people arent stuck fighting way out of their weight class.
I'm a midrange kind of guy, and happily so, I can plough any advanced space PVE and hold my own in many PVP scenarios, but there is a weight class that I should not be fighting in.
I neither wish to endlessly crush new players, nor be instantly vaped by 200k+ guys, rather a more evenly matched scenario based on PVP results convalescing into an overall matchmaking rating. I've seen this system in other games and aside from a painful beginning (which can be asuaged with the aforementioned friendly fleet PVP in STO), I don't see how it wouldn't work here. Provided it's not broken of course lol!
That said if you arent wanting to PVP, then making the rewards more generic and not tied to some special gear would mean you can just ignore the system amd stick to what you like.
reasons to be optimistic: Geko mentioned PvP in one interview this year and didn't slam it.
reasons not to be:
1. we've got 'war games' PvP already-and it already has almost no audience outside of prearranged in-fleet activity among some, but neither most nor most of the large, ones.
2. up in the air about whether they've addressed the "One team lays down" problem that ended PvP rewards back in 2012. To be honest, it's doubtful this was even considered, much less addressed.
3. it's explicitly described as 'competitive PvE'-which means it's probably configured mostly if not entirely for the PvE activity, but involves teams. WHy? because that's an easy way to get around problem 2. NPC's don't agree to lay down and let one team win for the sake of purple-ribbon rewards.
What makes you say PvP rewards "ended" in 2012? There are still PvP rewards. Were there some more rewards before that then?
Yes. Completing PvP would reward you with "medals", like the old old STFs, which you could then use at special vendors located on Deep Space K-7 and Ganalda station. It part of the reason why DSK7 became sort of a ingame home for me.
Also your got a then largish skill point and Ec reward if I remember rightly.
I wasn't here then, but didn't they replace those medals with dilithium game-wide? So now PvP rewards dil like everything else.
The "PVPVE" thats coming isn't quite as ridiculous as some sports like WWF (not the nature folk, the playfighters) or american football (standing about for ages because you're weighed down by so much body armour and advertising) or competetive eating.
Although it seems like they want to have the pvp happen without the bothersome combat balance required for actual player interactions.
The "PVPVE" thats coming isn't quite as ridiculous as some sports like WWF (not the nature folk, the playfighters) or american football (standing about for ages because you're weighed down by so much body armour and advertising) or competetive eating.
Although it seems like they want to have the pvp happen without the bothersome combat balance required for actual player interactions.
PvP queues back to STO....aren't we a bit too late for this? Good or Bad it will bring noobs and others might leave...exciting or NOT???
Too late to resurrect PvP?
Nope, but too late to save what was a good PvP experience before Faction diversity was destroyed by the Devs.
N00bs and Fedcruiser fanboys will thoroughly enjoy the rock 'em sock 'em robot action UNTIL builds that approximate pre-nerf settings are worked out and start pwning the aforementioned...then we'll see another round of "X is OP Devs please nerf".
When things are nerfed again, PvP will meander back into it's crypt to rest forevermore...hopefully.
Will the nerfs make me (or others) quit?
IDK...I can only hope changes are made before integration.
Otherwise, I think 5 years was longer than I thought I would play this game.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
People may be done with the Lukari but that doesn't mean we have to jump into a new one right away. Reputations drop about every six months. Lukari dropped on January 26th, so we are talking about THREE months.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Well now we know why these new Escorts dropped in the C-Store without the usual T6 opening weekend T5 price sale (they did that with the T6 MultiMission stuff as well). Lots of new power creep for the masses who will fall over each other to be the 'first on their block' with the new shiney. Give the DPS crowd plenty of time to 'optimize' them for the new Queues.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Meh, about sums up my overall feelings towards the balance pass and short description of the "new" pvp...
Sorry but IMO, part of what made STO different then every other "MMO" rpg esque game is that this was basically a large co-op online game with no real "losers" and none of the constant balance tweaks and sob stories about this is OP in pvp but balanced in PVE tug of war...
My only regret is buying the LTS on console given the massive shift in direction of the game. I don't hate pvp, don't seek it out actively though, but have absolutely LOVED not having a balance patch every 2 weeks because someone doesn't like xyz in pvp and watch my builds constantly flux. That does not sound like fun and brings STO into the realm of every other game out there...
Now that differentiation is gone, will likely rely solely on the Star Trek part to draw people, by that only lasts so long...
I hope they will add the PVP dailies (kill X turrets, kill X ground, kill x space) for the federation and make the warzone "daily" a true daily and not one which is often pushed to the back by the largely unused PVP.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Comments
Agree...let's wait and see how this goes.
Uhmm...Lockbox, Lobi and Promotional PvP ships? Isn't this the reason why they are trying to "balance" STO?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Wonder if perhaps Gecko will be the next Mr EP (executive producer). Ricossa's term must be getting close to ending.
PVP is fun as it is, provided you arrange battles with evenly matched opponents, we do allot of it infleet from time to time. One month goes by with only teamed PVE then suddenly loads of PVP interest for no fathomable reason.
As for PVP queues and competitive PVE, I'm all for it so long as people arent stuck fighting way out of their weight class.
I'm a midrange kind of guy, and happily so, I can plough any advanced space PVE and hold my own in many PVP scenarios, but there is a weight class that I should not be fighting in.
I neither wish to endlessly crush new players, nor be instantly vaped by 200k+ guys, rather a more evenly matched scenario based on PVP results convalescing into an overall matchmaking rating. I've seen this system in other games and aside from a painful beginning (which can be asuaged with the aforementioned friendly fleet PVP in STO), I don't see how it wouldn't work here. Provided it's not broken of course lol!
That said if you arent wanting to PVP, then making the rewards more generic and not tied to some special gear would mean you can just ignore the system amd stick to what you like.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
Makes sense that they use the unlucky number 13 for something PVP related.
The balance changes serve no real purpose beyond making PVP slightly more viable - they narrow the gap between cannon/beam and single / multi target focuses and address the existence of "must have" consoles - but those are ultimately cosmetic in PVE, unless you're the sort that gets stressed when a run takes 5 minutes longer.
Competitive PVE is just formally acknowledging what chunks of the community were already doing - namely, competing for the biggest numbers. Mixing it with PVP is probably the marketing essential to ensure that non-PVPers don't get left out, but if it's an excuse to work in a matching system... great.
As to the mentioned "exploit"? I don't really have an issue with that... frankly it smacks of treating the game as a job, but whatever works... it's not like it hurts other players, even to the degree that the current over-publicised meta does.
They tried that as the basis for the game when it was first released and it almost died.
As someone said above, all this will do is lead to a lot of Dev time wasted on endless balancing work, that in the end, will never be right.
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
LOL...and I thought it was an APRIL Fools Day JOKE!
I tend to agree as well. PvP is NOT PvE and both systems usually can't be balanced equally. The requirements are much more different to take down an NPC than it is to take down another human player behind the keyboard. There should be innate variations to each and this might be asking for trouble.
I can't wait for the whining in these forums that PvP is NOT fair...AGAIN.
As far as I can tell, the rewards are still the same as ever. It's just that, after the score quota was raised (I don't remember when that was) and with the increase of PvE speed and rewards, it's just no longer time-efficient to play the 3 matches needed for the dailies, even cooperatively.
A shame, really. Coop-PvP was fun, creative and social. Beat CCA-grinding for sure, in experience if not in reward.
I think most of us are done with Lukari by now.
Original STO beta tester.
and perhaps bound to happen again if this goes the way it might.
Original STO beta tester.
All good points. Is anyone surprised at how this got rolled out? I see forum posting that talked about most people couldn't care for PvP yet here we are now.
Yes. Completing PvP would reward you with "medals", like the old old STFs, which you could then use at special vendors located on Deep Space K-7 and Ganalda station. It part of the reason why DSK7 became sort of a ingame home for me.
Also your got a then largish skill point and Ec reward if I remember rightly.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Most players do not care for PvP. Wonder what led to the outcome to invest in PvP now. Could be a welcome change for the few remaining PvPers in here.
It also makes PvE more of a challenge. Now I know I'm an odd one out here, but I find challenge fun.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
WHat is wrong with PvP? It doesn't have to be K vs F or anything like that...just call it war games. No need for PvP to have to be faction vs faction.
Just, not enough compared to PvE stuff.
Although it seems like they want to have the pvp happen without the bothersome combat balance required for actual player interactions.
Smells like Ker'rat part II...
Too late to resurrect PvP?
Nope, but too late to save what was a good PvP experience before Faction diversity was destroyed by the Devs.
N00bs and Fedcruiser fanboys will thoroughly enjoy the rock 'em sock 'em robot action UNTIL builds that approximate pre-nerf settings are worked out and start pwning the aforementioned...then we'll see another round of "X is OP Devs please nerf".
When things are nerfed again, PvP will meander back into it's crypt to rest forevermore...hopefully.
Will the nerfs make me (or others) quit?
IDK...I can only hope changes are made before integration.
Otherwise, I think 5 years was longer than I thought I would play this game.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
[6:11] [Combat (Self)] Your Heavy Escort Railgun gives 92520 (71317) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Probe.
Lets just ignore it's healing hilarity at moment. That's through shields and that weapon fires every 4 seconds.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Sorry but IMO, part of what made STO different then every other "MMO" rpg esque game is that this was basically a large co-op online game with no real "losers" and none of the constant balance tweaks and sob stories about this is OP in pvp but balanced in PVE tug of war...
My only regret is buying the LTS on console given the massive shift in direction of the game. I don't hate pvp, don't seek it out actively though, but have absolutely LOVED not having a balance patch every 2 weeks because someone doesn't like xyz in pvp and watch my builds constantly flux. That does not sound like fun and brings STO into the realm of every other game out there...
Now that differentiation is gone, will likely rely solely on the Star Trek part to draw people, by that only lasts so long...