If there was a chance I could lose any gear, I wouldn't touch PvP with a ten foot barge pole. I can't imagine I'm alone in that, and I seriously doubt it the level of interest would be worth the investment of time and money on Cryptic's part.
What kind of gear though!? If someone has poured $100 into the game to get 1 item for their build only to then be taken by another player who's probably using broken/unbalanced equipment it's unfair. It'd be far better if they took ec or dilithium. Even then, PvP would have to have a very robust gear/weapon balance so that players can't abuse the system and faceroll players with FAW.
Or transfer to another, non-PVP server after you realized that the 'Recommended' EQ2 Server you started the Character on was, in fact, a PVP Server.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
@repetitiveepic I'm all for PvP rep and missions but it has to be balanced or it's pointless and no one will play. Taking ec and dilithium is also sounds better for "the weak man" than taking equipment. PvP should attract people not drive them away.
@patrickngo i understand you and i agree, since pvp community is full of toxic members that will be useless in order to make some real change.
What i meant is a person like @crypticspartan#0627 should do what you said, working in incognito, undercover, in arena, maybe in kerrat etc... that would be ok, at least in a way to let him understand the real problems...
Why would it need to be any different from how a pve-rep would work gear wise, other than maybe having an innate pvp-based mods on them, and then having the reps have traits that are pvp liening, Yet I don't think that a pvp rep's gear rewards would need to somehow be so different that they are not of use in pve content, just the same as pve gear should still be of use in pve content, since in the end the idea of having to grind out pvp-gear to even be anything more than cannon-fodder is off putting for many players.
For me the bigger issue is that when you balance pve, and pvp content via what gear you use, that it alienates a lot of players. As well as is a band-aid fix for the issue that fundamentally pve and pvp should have two separate values that abilities in the game can be balanced via. Such as that each ability has a set value influencing how it interacts in pve, and pvp content that can than be altered an balanced via without hindering each other. Though such a system would need to be built from the ground up day one, as a revamp to build it into a existing system would be fraught with alot of issues and resources spent.
If the PvP rep gave gear useful only in PvP, nobody would play any more PvP than they do now.
If the PvP rep gave gear useful in PvE, people would complain about being "forced" to play PvP.
( Armada Battle Fleet ) HI! WELCOME TO ARMADA FLEET BATTLE STO EPISODE 1 SEASON 1-5 THIS IS THE TIME WE CHALLENGE OURSELVES AND SEE WHO IS THE RULES OUR GALAXY! FEDS OR KDF?? WE ALL WANT TO KNOW SO THIS IS WHERE IT BEGINS! EACH SEASON FLEETS OF 16 TEAMS WILL GAIN POINTS 5 POINTS PER WIN 0 POINT PER LOSS. EACH SEASON WILL HAVE A WINNER AND WILL GAIN ACCESS TO EPISODES FOR FREE NO ENTRY FEE!!!! PLUS EXTRA 10 POINT TO TOTAL POINTS. WINNER WITH THE MOST POINT IN 5 SEASON GETS THE GRAND PRIZE!DEEMED BEST PVP FLEET& $750.000.00MILLION-PLUS A LITTLE EXTRA SECRET PRIZE!. PRIZES FOR 2ND AND 3RD PLACE AS WELL SO WORK HARD!. TO GAIN ACCESS TO EPISODES PLEASE GO TO ARMADA FLEET BATTLE COMMUNITY! OR IN GAME AND SPEAK WITH JAYLENWOOD35.BEAST,COOTERBUD,MERADITHEA FOR INTRY&MORE INFORMATION&DETAILS PLEASE (check website posted in ps4) ( armada battle Fleet community )
you can find us on ps4,facebook,twitter,reddit
We been working on this for sometime (longer then expected) but here is our launch and I hope a lot will Enjoy these many events to come from u.
We are 4 fleet leaders come together to make this event to enhance our gameplay, we hope for all fleets KDF-FEDS Apply
April First for our live Sign up At 11pm-6pm 4v4 fleet vs fleet let the best win
Global ps4 In game announcements has been made to most of all fleets and we are trying every angle to advertise this.
I Heard the same about kdf. in battle fleet its fed vs feds and kdf vs kdf,if kdf vs fed I believe it would be a little unfair. also it would be Kool to have feds champ vs kdf champ in the near future if this plans out.
we all know pvp is a fail so how about we Build some excitement about it and hope. lol
@valoreah sto was designed with PvP very much in mind. In fact PvP was good despite upsets pre-DR but Devs never gave it time of day because the PvE community cried everytime somebody tried to balance powers or gear because they don't know how to play in a team where they aren't the hero with the 100k+ DPS ship.
If there was a chance I could lose any gear, I wouldn't touch PvP with a ten foot barge pole. I can't imagine I'm alone in that, and I seriously doubt it the level of interest would be worth the investment of time and money on Cryptic's part.
This is the problem, too many people instinctively shrink back to the Weak Man's Role.
The "weak" thing is 100% your self-important little opinion. I see it more as aversion to the sadistic/sociopathic side of gaming. If you want that TRIBBLE, go play eve.
You shouldn't be thinking about what you can lose, but what you can win. It's not that you can lose a piece of gear, its that you can get one for free.
I get no satisfaction from taking things from other people, and so there is no incentive to risk anything I have earned.
Leaving aside why for the time being, I would offer my proverbial .02cr on how...
Understanding that balance is a major concern, I submit for your consideration the idea of 'vanilla' PvP being the 'fuel', as it were, for this hypothetical reputation. Recall that there are portions of missions where you're given a ship with a fixed loadout (weapons, consoles, boffs, and so on) for the duration - most notably 'Spheres of Influence'; that mechanic is what is being built on here.
At each tier of the reputation, the corresponding group of 'stock' versions of faction-appropriate ships become available; also, all battles will use the same tier of ships. Because of this, this would be the only rep that has six tiers (T5-U being melded with T5), and all faction-appropriate ships are available for use here at their given tiers - in other words, zero outlay of Zen required. The fact that all these ships are pure stock should make it very easy to balance them against one another.
While this covers all the Starfleet, Romulan Republic Navy, and KDF ships, it does leave out the non-faction ships (Tholian, Undine, Vaadwaur, et cetera); "how," arises the next question, "are those unlocked?"
Simple: via an analogue of the Arena of Sompek - just you and one of the stock T5 ships of your choice in an endurance challenge against that enemy type; which ships you unlock are dependent on how many sets of ten waves you manage to pass (for example, unlocking all the Tholian ships requires clearing at least forty waves of that challenge). Bonus: there can even be leaderboards for this sort of thing, providing yet another avenue for competition, whether in terms of how many waves are survived, or how fast X number are cleared.
With respect to accruing points for the rep: there's a small reward for each match played, aside from the victors' payouts. Rewards from the rep are purely aesthetic: titles, special hull patterns, that sort of thing.
@patrickngo
I haven't followed the entire discussion, but one thing regarding "relevance".
I think it's unlikely that cryptic will return to a FvK or similar conflict. So it will probably remain War Games in that area.
But what if they did "Monster Play"? Let one side take over the role of the Borg, Vaadwaur or Herald, and the other side the role of the Alliance.
I don't know how this would work exactly - how customized would the "Monster" ships be, for example, how would existing and ownedlockbox ships affect this mode? But I could see that there would be some compelling reasons for people to try this out, and playing the "evil" guys, commanding a Borg Cube or Iconian Dreadnaught or whatever.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
"How" might better be asked in terms of "How do you get people to try it out??"
followed by "How do you get them to come back???"
Fair questions; I think i'd answered them in a somewhat indirect manner, but I'll try and sum up:
a PvP environment wherein everyone is on the same footing - it's literally impossible to buy any sort of advantage; and
a way to get bragging rights and customization options (as you note below, nobody will say no to more of those)
Your Sompek-style challenge works far, far better for PvE.
Which is what they are, really; it just so happens that doing well in them would also unlock ships for use in PvP if you're so inclined. And, again, leaderboards for these would also provide a form of indirect competition.
forced-vanilla has a similar problem in keeping people involved-players in this game are generally pretty personally invested in their characters, they spend hours in the tailor 'getting it just right', they pick ships based on aesthetics and then demand better stats afterward.
I should've made clear that while these ships' loadouts are fixed, their aesthetics are still freely modifiable.
and Cryptic's business model interferes to a really great extent-Cryptic sells power. Powercreep and customization are integral to the audience they have cultivated for the game.
The fact that they got into the bad habit of selling power is, I think, a self-inflicted wound. As for customization... aside from the rewards from this hypothetical PvP rep, there's just so much they can do now that ship visual slots are a thing.
That pretty much godhammers any move to use a VanillaPvP basis, becuase it runs straight face-first into the wall of "Make a business case".
This comes back to point one above: my understanding of the current state of PvP is that many people are turned off because of having to compete against other player's wallets in addition to their actual skill. If you're going to have a PvP rep of any sort, keeping the playing field level is vital.
Relevance and Rewards. everything else, mechanisms, mechanics, game types, even maps, is tertiary to those two concerns.
How to make it relevant in a way that attracts fans of the show who aren't already players of the game, and how to reward existing players without giving them an easy way to cheat the system.
Which... I don't have a good idea for, which is why I found it less troublesome to focus on the 'how' so that when someone does find an answer for 'why', the mechanics are ready.
But what if they did "Monster Play"? Let one side take over the role of the Borg, Vaadwaur or Herald, and the other side the role of the Alliance.
I don't know how this would work exactly - how customized would the "Monster" ships be, for example, how would existing and ownedlockbox ships affect this mode? But I could see that there would be some compelling reasons for people to try this out, and playing the "evil" guys, commanding a Borg Cube or Iconian Dreadnaught or whatever.
This is a feature over in LotRO; it'd be interesting to see how that mechanic is adapted here. Sort of related would be the Assassins mechanic seen in Age of Wulin/Age of Wushu (ref 1; 2)...
ships with fixed loadouts coming from cryptic is a TERRIBLE idea
if you want to know why, just look at Temporal Ambassador, Sphere of Influence, A Step between Stars and all 3 faction's flagship shakedown mission from 2013 first contact day
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Only if it's worth getting my behind splattered on someone's view screen.
by NPC? read the blog again.
It's competitive team PvE. You ran the ice-racing thing on the winter event, right??
Okay, this is like that-you may have other players on the field, but it's more akin to a DPS parse with prizes if the Blog post is to be believed-two teams, but they aren't actually fighting each other, they're racing to complete PvE Objectives.
Sounds good, I like it!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Only if it's worth getting my behind splattered on someone's view screen.
by NPC? read the blog again.
It's competitive team PvE. You ran the ice-racing thing on the winter event, right??
Okay, this is like that-you may have other players on the field, but it's more akin to a DPS parse with prizes if the Blog post is to be believed-two teams, but they aren't actually fighting each other, they're racing to complete PvE Objectives.
Sounds good, I like it!
I hope LOTS of people like it-it'll be something different for a change...
but it isn't PvP in the sense that the players are also the content.
Right, but I see it as careful first step in this direction. The intorduction of career specific sets over the reput could even be a second. At the very least the whole topic gets me excited and that’s the first time I can honestly say that about Pv(P) since DR.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Only if it's worth getting my behind splattered on someone's view screen.
by NPC? read the blog again.
It's competitive team PvE. You ran the ice-racing thing on the winter event, right??
Okay, this is like that-you may have other players on the field, but it's more akin to a DPS parse with prizes if the Blog post is to be believed-two teams, but they aren't actually fighting each other, they're racing to complete PvE Objectives.
Sounds good, I like it!
I hope LOTS of people like it-it'll be something different for a change...
but it isn't PvP in the sense that the players are also the content.
Right, but I see it as careful first step in this direction. The intorduction of career specific sets over the reput could even be a second. At the very least the whole topic gets me excited and that’s the first time I can honestly say that about Pv(P) since DR.
I think the bigger worry is how quickly the community (on both sides of the issue) started getting on each other about it being PvP....when it is expressly NOT PvP even in the blog post. The "No PvP" people freaking out because of it, and the hopeful types reading more into it than is there.
short, I don't think people are prepping to judge what they're bringing on its own merits. Meaning a lot of people won't give it a chance on the PvE side, and a lot of PvP fans are going to have the wrong expectations and then storm off with their disappointment when it turns out NOT to be what they fantasized it should be-which is just as unfair to the effort as the people who won't because they're afraid of being blown up.
all I really think about it, is that people should give it a chance as what it is: Something New. It isn't PvP, it's more competitive than the target-practice PvE we've dealt with before.
Let's see what they're actually offering us before we judge it.
Agreed.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Comments
not everybody here want allways content only for pve.. we got this since 7 years. maybe its time to do something for pvp aswell.
David
*** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What i meant is a person like @crypticspartan#0627 should do what you said, working in incognito, undercover, in arena, maybe in kerrat etc... that would be ok, at least in a way to let him understand the real problems...
My character Tsin'xing
For me the bigger issue is that when you balance pve, and pvp content via what gear you use, that it alienates a lot of players. As well as is a band-aid fix for the issue that fundamentally pve and pvp should have two separate values that abilities in the game can be balanced via. Such as that each ability has a set value influencing how it interacts in pve, and pvp content that can than be altered an balanced via without hindering each other. Though such a system would need to be built from the ground up day one, as a revamp to build it into a existing system would be fraught with alot of issues and resources spent.
If the PvP rep gave gear useful in PvE, people would complain about being "forced" to play PvP.
You can't win with that.
HI! WELCOME TO ARMADA FLEET BATTLE
STO EPISODE 1 SEASON 1-5
THIS IS THE TIME WE CHALLENGE OURSELVES AND SEE WHO IS THE RULES OUR GALAXY! FEDS OR KDF?? WE ALL WANT TO KNOW
SO THIS IS WHERE IT BEGINS!
EACH SEASON FLEETS OF 16 TEAMS WILL GAIN POINTS 5 POINTS PER WIN 0 POINT PER LOSS.
EACH SEASON WILL HAVE A WINNER AND WILL GAIN ACCESS TO EPISODES FOR FREE NO ENTRY FEE!!!! PLUS EXTRA 10 POINT TO TOTAL POINTS. WINNER WITH THE MOST POINT IN 5 SEASON GETS THE GRAND PRIZE!DEEMED BEST PVP FLEET& $750.000.00MILLION-PLUS A LITTLE EXTRA SECRET PRIZE!. PRIZES FOR 2ND AND 3RD PLACE AS WELL SO WORK HARD!.
TO GAIN ACCESS TO EPISODES PLEASE GO TO ARMADA FLEET BATTLE COMMUNITY! OR IN GAME AND SPEAK WITH JAYLENWOOD35.BEAST,COOTERBUD,MERADITHEA FOR INTRY&MORE INFORMATION&DETAILS PLEASE (check website posted in ps4) ( armada battle Fleet community )
you can find us on ps4,facebook,twitter,reddit
We been working on this for sometime (longer then expected) but here is our launch and I hope a lot will Enjoy these many events to come from u.
We are 4 fleet leaders come together to make this event to enhance our gameplay, we hope for all fleets KDF-FEDS Apply
April First for our live Sign up At 11pm-6pm
4v4 fleet vs fleet let the best win
Global ps4 In game announcements has been made to most of all fleets and we are trying every angle to advertise this.
lets have fun-ArmadaBattlefleet
here u go:
, in short:
, or a bit more reputative:
we all know pvp is a fail so how about we Build some excitement about it and hope. lol
Players always say what the point of pvp if barelly a players will kill each other?
How do people pay pvp here????
The "weak" thing is 100% your self-important little opinion. I see it more as aversion to the sadistic/sociopathic side of gaming. If you want that TRIBBLE, go play eve.
I get no satisfaction from taking things from other people, and so there is no incentive to risk anything I have earned.
Understanding that balance is a major concern, I submit for your consideration the idea of 'vanilla' PvP being the 'fuel', as it were, for this hypothetical reputation. Recall that there are portions of missions where you're given a ship with a fixed loadout (weapons, consoles, boffs, and so on) for the duration - most notably 'Spheres of Influence'; that mechanic is what is being built on here.
At each tier of the reputation, the corresponding group of 'stock' versions of faction-appropriate ships become available; also, all battles will use the same tier of ships. Because of this, this would be the only rep that has six tiers (T5-U being melded with T5), and all faction-appropriate ships are available for use here at their given tiers - in other words, zero outlay of Zen required. The fact that all these ships are pure stock should make it very easy to balance them against one another.
While this covers all the Starfleet, Romulan Republic Navy, and KDF ships, it does leave out the non-faction ships (Tholian, Undine, Vaadwaur, et cetera); "how," arises the next question, "are those unlocked?"
Simple: via an analogue of the Arena of Sompek - just you and one of the stock T5 ships of your choice in an endurance challenge against that enemy type; which ships you unlock are dependent on how many sets of ten waves you manage to pass (for example, unlocking all the Tholian ships requires clearing at least forty waves of that challenge). Bonus: there can even be leaderboards for this sort of thing, providing yet another avenue for competition, whether in terms of how many waves are survived, or how fast X number are cleared.
With respect to accruing points for the rep: there's a small reward for each match played, aside from the victors' payouts. Rewards from the rep are purely aesthetic: titles, special hull patterns, that sort of thing.
I haven't followed the entire discussion, but one thing regarding "relevance".
I think it's unlikely that cryptic will return to a FvK or similar conflict. So it will probably remain War Games in that area.
But what if they did "Monster Play"? Let one side take over the role of the Borg, Vaadwaur or Herald, and the other side the role of the Alliance.
I don't know how this would work exactly - how customized would the "Monster" ships be, for example, how would existing and ownedlockbox ships affect this mode? But I could see that there would be some compelling reasons for people to try this out, and playing the "evil" guys, commanding a Borg Cube or Iconian Dreadnaught or whatever.
Yet there might be live to this after all
Original STO beta tester.
Original STO beta tester.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
- a PvP environment wherein everyone is on the same footing - it's literally impossible to buy any sort of advantage; and
- a way to get bragging rights and customization options (as you note below, nobody will say no to more of those)
Which is what they are, really; it just so happens that doing well in them would also unlock ships for use in PvP if you're so inclined. And, again, leaderboards for these would also provide a form of indirect competition.I should've made clear that while these ships' loadouts are fixed, their aesthetics are still freely modifiable.
The fact that they got into the bad habit of selling power is, I think, a self-inflicted wound. As for customization... aside from the rewards from this hypothetical PvP rep, there's just so much they can do now that ship visual slots are a thing.
This comes back to point one above: my understanding of the current state of PvP is that many people are turned off because of having to compete against other player's wallets in addition to their actual skill. If you're going to have a PvP rep of any sort, keeping the playing field level is vital.
Which... I don't have a good idea for, which is why I found it less troublesome to focus on the 'how' so that when someone does find an answer for 'why', the mechanics are ready.
This is a feature over in LotRO; it'd be interesting to see how that mechanic is adapted here. Sort of related would be the Assassins mechanic seen in Age of Wulin/Age of Wushu (ref 1; 2)...
if you want to know why, just look at Temporal Ambassador, Sphere of Influence, A Step between Stars and all 3 faction's flagship shakedown mission from 2013 first contact day
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Sounds good, I like it!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Right, but I see it as careful first step in this direction. The intorduction of career specific sets over the reput could even be a second. At the very least the whole topic gets me excited and that’s the first time I can honestly say that about Pv(P) since DR.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Agreed.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.