They change the interactions of things in the game, so we have now a new game to play: How to figure out what's best.
You must be delusional.
Nothing in this update will make ISA or CCA "fresh or origional". Nothing in this update will give a "new take" on story missions we've played several hundred times. Nothing is this update magically generates "original content".
It's the same game. I just have to switch consoles before I go back to business as usual.
Not only was that a very crass response, you completely glossed over the intent of what was written to suit your own agenda and try and throw an underhanded dig my way, regardless I will clarify..
A blanket nerf across the board that essentially renders items "useless" and by that I mean if there's 2-3 alternatives that now do the action "better" but at a 15-30% overall reduction in efficiency, that item is essentially removed from the game.
Purest example is the science plasma consoles... first off, if these are so game breaking then this shoulda been addressed many moons ago when they were released and "not working as intended"... the massive changes to pre existing items is summarizable in one word, revenue.
I don't fault them for doing it as revenue is required to keep the lights on. But I'll call it like I see it and this is BS up and down the board. There was and is infitetely more sound ways to go about these changes that doesn't carry the optics of a cash grab through and through
Not only was that a very crass response, you completely glossed over the intent of what was written to suit your own agenda and try and throw an underhanded dig my way, regardless I will clarify..
A blanket nerf across the board that essentially renders items "useless" and by that I mean if there's 2-3 alternatives that now do the action "better" but at a 15-30% overall reduction in efficiency, that item is essentially removed from the game.
Purest example is the science plasma consoles... first off, if these are so game breaking then this shoulda been addressed many moons ago when they were released and "not working as intended"... the massive changes to pre existing items is summarizable in one word, revenue.
I don't fault them for doing it as revenue is required to keep the lights on. But I'll call it like I see it and this is BS up and down the board. There was and is infitetely more sound ways to go about these changes that doesn't carry the optics of a cash grab through and through
I agree with you completely. The Romulan Embassy consoles have already been looked at once, but now they are being nerfed into oblivion. They will be literally useless to the point that they might as well be removed from the game. I honestly wouldn't mind them being looked at again and adjusted, but as of right now the adjustment is complete destruction. That seems to be a little bit of an overkill.
All this reminds me of a line from the end of the original 'The Magnificent Seven':
'...Only the farmers won. We lost. We'll always lose.'
In our case:
Only the Ferengi win. We lost. We'll always lose.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
To all those complaining about their "investments" being shot to hell, I say this:
Get over yourselves.
For the vast majority of items that are being nerfed, the only actual, real-world investment from you as a player was time. Even those items obtained through real-world purchases aren't really an investment, but an entertainment expense.
Someone mentioned an analogy to buying a Porsche. This is a fallacious analogy, as a vehicle IS an investment, while this game is not.
In truth, this would be more analogous to someone spending the same amount of money every season for baseball season passes, only to get livid when the ticket prices go up.
They are not "entitled" to receive the same price for tickets, no matter how loyal of a fan they have been, and you are not "entitled" to keep the same stuff with no changes while everyone else has to deal with the new system.
Things change. Deal with it, or quit.
Never read a more asinine or self centered piece of diatribe in my life
You should read your own posts then princess.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
To all those complaining about their "investments" being shot to hell, I say this:
Get over yourselves.
For the vast majority of items that are being nerfed, the only actual, real-world investment from you as a player was time. Even those items obtained through real-world purchases aren't really an investment, but an entertainment expense.
Someone mentioned an analogy to buying a Porsche. This is a fallacious analogy, as a vehicle IS an investment, while this game is not.
In truth, this would be more analogous to someone spending the same amount of money every season for baseball season passes, only to get livid when the ticket prices go up.
They are not "entitled" to receive the same price for tickets, no matter how loyal of a fan they have been, and you are not "entitled" to keep the same stuff with no changes while everyone else has to deal with the new system.
Things change. Deal with it, or quit.
Never read a more asinine or self centered piece of diatribe in my life
You should read your own posts then princess.
Spitakes. Thanks Vampeiyre, just brought back up some of my chocolate milk.
Thank you though well said, and I am still giggling at your response now
You know, I saw the title of this thread and I was imediately reminded of what Borticus had said about this console during the testing of the skill revamp last year...
And I quote: "This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now, then I hope we can move on to focusing on the rest of the Skill Revamp:
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question. No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community, nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term health.
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?"
They're basically going after five items right there on par with the plasmonic leech for dominating the meta, and about 5 more second tier 'yeah, that's substantially over the line too' ((looks pointedly at OSS)). Honestly, I'm watching some balls of brass on display with them shepherding this all forward and I slightly regret riling CrypticSpartan over a personal bugaboo of mine while he's otherwise occupied. Sorry man. My bad. Poor timing on my part.
You do realize the point of a balance pass isn't to make there be no best? Perfect balance is a direction you try to move towards, not the measure of success. The real purpose is to close the gap between best and second best, between best and average. The word you'll usually hear is "normalize" performance.
And by that standard, things are coming along nicely.
I do get the part they are trying to sell to players in the blog about fun and balance at all.
Unfortunately the thing I get as well is that precisely all the things that are cheap and good get hit in order to open the door to stuff that is also good but much more expensive.
I have been around here for 5 years. I’m quite certain. Normalization is the last thing that will take place over the adjustments
I understand the frustration but they have yet to have done anything like these major changes since before FTP.
You know, I saw the title of this thread and I was imediately reminded of what Borticus had said about this console during the testing of the skill revamp last year...
And I quote:
"This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now, then I hope we can move on to focusing on the rest of the Skill Revamp:
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question. No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community, nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term health.
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?"
Ah, that's the quote I was looking for!
But yeah, Bort doesn't like the idea of there being any peice of gear in the game that players rely on enough that people would actually try to claim the game's balance hinges on it.
Nor should he. I personally greatly dislike the idea that many people have that says you have to use leech on everything. Really? Every build? that's the definition of an OP peice of gear.
And as someone pointed out elsewhere, even after THIS recent nerf, it's still better than most consoles.
You know, I saw the title of this thread and I was immediately reminded of what Borticus had said about this console during the testing of the skill revamp last year...
And I quote:
"This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now, then I hope we can move on to focusing on the rest of the Skill Revamp:
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question. No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community, nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term health.
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?"
I guess it shouldn't have gone cross-faction, then.
It would have been a nerf hailed by the Fed masses as being overdue and celebrated.
I'm actually surprised people are taking it in a civilized manner, which is a little disappointing.
PvP and faction diversity were trashed just so EVERYONE can get their mitts on it.
Does PL need a nerf?
Nope, but if I've learned one thing after all these years playing the game it's this: There's no point in offering "feedback", as evidenced in his quote.
As mentioned by an earlier post, a new wave of OP-ness is most definitely on the horizon.
The new shiny(s).
A renewed round of power creep.
Is that in our "best interest" or Cryptic's?
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
to be fair, the tailpipe torpedo has gotten some fairly significant buffs since - still useless at 2 minutes CD, though; bump it down to 1, or even .5 and we'll talk
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
You know, I saw the title of this thread and I was immediately reminded of what Borticus had said about this console during the testing of the skill revamp last year...
And I quote:
"This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now, then I hope we can move on to focusing on the rest of the Skill Revamp:
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question. No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community, nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term health.
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?"
I guess it shouldn't have gone cross-faction, then.
It would have been a nerf hailed by the Fed masses as being overdue and celebrated.
They release stuff like faction-specific consoles to other factions for fairness and balance reasons. They also realized consoles that practically no one uses via lockboxes. That one of these consoles was totally OP and the rest mostly inconsequential points to them not being caring so much about the individual item's power and more about the fact that they wanted everyone have a way to use it.
If they want to give you more power, they don't have to release a console to a faction that hasn't had it before. They can just make up some new piece of gear that's OP.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
to be fair, the tailpipe torpedo has gotten some fairly significant buffs since - still useless at 2 minutes CD, though; bump it down to 1, or even .5 and we'll talk
It has an un-obvious use most players don't think of. You can REAR fire it while facing forwards, almost like it's a mine. But yeah, the CD is why I don't use it any more.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
to be fair, the tailpipe torpedo has gotten some fairly significant buffs since - still useless at 2 minutes CD, though; bump it down to 1, or even .5 and we'll talk
At .5 it'd be like a Tricobalt. Not great but usable. It'd be better as a BOff skill, in my opinion.
but then they would have to give the exeter a different console, and since the exeter is a connie refit variant...the ionized gas sensor kind of goes with it
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
If they gave us ADV, ELITE and EPIC versions for every queue AND the ability to solo the ones that don't require teammates, I wouldn't be so cynical about the changes, and pretty darn happy with STO in general.
EPIC: would only be do-able with teams of 100k + (per player average DPS)
ELITE: would remain the same, teams of 40K-50k players can do them with relative success. Problem is, rewards don't line up with time invested. ADJUST THE REWARDS of all queues based on average time to completion. Ground Elite is pretty flawless atm in terms of difficulty and rewards, though at the high end its still too easy.
ADV: Teams of 10-20k can complete them with relative success.
NORM: 0-5k teams can complete them with relative success.
Its well past due at this point with all the OP stuff you've sold us since LoR. What's the hold up ?
The most "un-fun" thing about STO is that its too easy.
I have the most fun these days when I get a crappy PUG or red alert that I can help along. Because its slightly less mind numbingly easy.
Yet you guys keep cramming these crazy abilities and traits down our throats. But never do anything for people who invest the most time in your game, and want a challenge that pays equitably for our time.
And now look at us.
ISA all the time.. A handful of people in other queues. PvP completely dead. Its sad.
Give us adv, elite, epic difficulties (solo-able where possible), normalize the PvE queue rewards based on average time to completion, and keep this difficulty range balanced going forward and I'll never complain again.
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question.
No, it's an indicator that your sick nerfs are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics. Aka, you didn't just nerf Leech, you nerfed everything built around it! That Epic Terran Space Set I got for DrainX? utterly useless now when the 1 item that can actually use it, is capped at +6 power. Or the Delta Alliance Ordnance set. Or the crafted consoles with DrainX, or pretty much everything. Not your problem, right?! You got your money out of us already.
No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community,
Then you shouldn't have built everything around it, shouldnt you!?
nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term healthin the name of the Search for More Money.
There, fixed that for ya.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
The victim role doesn't suit you. Nor does the patronizing, btw. YOU did this, very much on purpose, and very much NOT in *my* best interest.
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question.
No, it's an indicator that your sick nerfs are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics. Aka, you didn't just nerf Leech, you nerfed everything built around it! That Epic Terran Space Set I got for DrainX? utterly useless now when the 1 item that can actually use it, is capped at +6 power. Or the Delta Alliance Ordnance set. Or the crafted consoles with DrainX, or pretty much everything. Not your problem, right?! You got your money out of us already.
meimeitoo, the thing you're quoting is something borticus said about the skill system revamp, not this revamp. It was just brought up here to show that the dev time was already concerned about Leech back then, but most of the specifics of what Borticus said in what you quote have nothing to do with this rebalance.
Basically, the skill system revamp did in fact change countless of systems, skills and abilities in the game. Yet the major point of contention that dominated almost every feedback thread back then was how it had - basically completely accidentally - changed Plasmonic Leech.
If anything, I can congratulate anyone that was up in arms about the temporary/inadvertent change of Plasmonic Leech back then. You really convinced the devs that when they would ever start working on rebalancing the game, they'd had to look at it hard. And now they finally did.
No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community,
Then you shouldn't have built everything around it, shouldnt you!?
nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term healthin the name of the Search for More Money.
If Cryptic wants your money because you like to pay for power, then they'll find easy ways to do it. It's something that some players don't seem to get, but if they want to make an item that's intentionally more powerful than anyhting has become that it becomes a staple of the game, they can just make it, and then adding a price tag to it is easy, too. Making something intentionally overpowered is not difficult for game designers. They can actually already do it completely by accident.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
but then they would have to give the exeter a different console, and since the exeter is a connie refit variant...the ionized gas sensor kind of goes with it
I know. I meant 'in a bubble' it would be better as a BOff skill.
EPIC: would only be do-able with teams of 100k + (per player average DPS)
ELITE: would remain the same, teams of 40K-50k players can do them with relative success. Problem is, rewards don't line up with time invested. ADJUST THE REWARDS of all queues based on average time to completion. Ground Elite is pretty flawless atm in terms of difficulty and rewards, though at the high end its still too easy.
ADV: Teams of 10-20k can complete them with relative success.
NORM: 0-5k teams can complete them with relative success.
Yeah, they kind of tried that already. It was a firestorm.
Honestly, rather than this irresponsible approach of killing plasmonic leech outright by making it a flat buff they should have adjust the DrainX scaling or the number of stacks. That would have been the responsible thing to do, as it would not just instantly devalue and make peoples DrainX gear COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!
Because it is now unless you are specifically building a drainboat build. All my science consoles and my deflector and DrainX universal consoles on my Command Warbird are now just vendor trash, as they no longer serve any kind of function whatsoever in my build.
As such the way they have nerfed the Leech directly violates their goals.
- It completely destroys some builds completely and tells people that "their fun is wrong".
- It completely destroys the investments of zen, dilithium, energy credits and fleet credits of A LOT of players.
- It removes the choice of certain DrainX dedicated builds completely from the game.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Honestly, rather than this irresponsible approach of killing plasmonic leech outright by making it a flat buff they should have adjust the DrainX scaling or the number of stacks. That would have been the responsible thing to do, as it would not just instantly devalue and make peoples DrainX gear COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!
Because it is now unless you are specifically building a drainboat build. All my science consoles and my deflector and DrainX universal consoles on my Command Warbird are now just vendor trash, as they no longer serve any kind of function whatsoever in my build.
As such the way they have nerfed the Leech directly violates their goals.
- It completely destroys some builds completely and tells people that "their fun is wrong".
- It completely destroys the investments of zen, dilithium, energy credits and fleet credits of A LOT of players.
- It removes the choice of certain DrainX dedicated builds completely from the game.
Well said! Bort did not just nerf DrainX a bit (or a lot even), he just outright killed it. This Leech nerf renders every bit of DrainX gear COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!
And don't give me 'But you can still drain NPCs.' For one, nobody cares about that. Besides, lest ppl forget, you can never really drain a NPC the way you can a player; NPCs cheat. This was never a problem, really, as the beauty of the Leech was, that even when the game had decided the NPC was drained enough, you, the player, would still leech power off of it (as if the NPC had an infinite supply; so, the NPC cheating a bit, so as to never fall completely dry, was not a real issue). So, what's left now is a +6 power cap, and NPCs that never could be really drained in the first place. Sigh.
Wow, there's enough salt in this thread to line the rim of every margarita glass from now to the 25th century.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Honestly, rather than this irresponsible approach of killing plasmonic leech outright by making it a flat buff they should have adjust the DrainX scaling or the number of stacks. That would have been the responsible thing to do, as it would not just instantly devalue and make peoples DrainX gear COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!
Because it is now unless you are specifically building a drainboat build. All my science consoles and my deflector and DrainX universal consoles on my Command Warbird are now just vendor trash, as they no longer serve any kind of function whatsoever in my build.
As such the way they have nerfed the Leech directly violates their goals.
- It completely destroys some builds completely and tells people that "their fun is wrong".
- It completely destroys the investments of zen, dilithium, energy credits and fleet credits of A LOT of players.
- It removes the choice of certain DrainX dedicated builds completely from the game.
Well said! Bort did not just nerf DrainX a bit (or a lot even), he just outright killed it. This Leech nerf renders every bit of DrainX gear COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!
And don't give me 'But you can still drain NPCs.' For one, nobody cares about that. Besides, lest ppl forget, you can never really drain a NPC the way you can a player; NPCs cheat. This was never a problem, really, as the beauty of the Leech was, that even when the game had decided the NPC was drained enough, you, the player, would still leech power off of it (as if the NPC had an infinite supply; so, the NPC cheating a bit, so as to never fall completely dry, was not a real issue). So, what's left now is a +6 power cap, and NPCs that never could be really drained in the first place. Sigh.
(Emphasis mine)
So, just because some people can't be bothered to actually specialise in draining and want to do it the easy way by having one console that also has the additional benefit of boosting the players' own power levels, drainX gear is now suddenly 'COMPLETELY WORTHLESS'?
Draining is still possible and anyone who actually knows about draining would know that Plasmonic leech only plays a marginal role in it. Other abilities are far (and now even) more important and that's how it should be as the players actually sacrifice something to put those other things (consoles, boff powers) on their ships.
It's about time that players couldn't be a master of or at least significantly benefit from everything (draining, exotic damage dealing + tactical skills) without making any significant sacrifices at the same time. That is, per their statement, exactly what they're trying to do here: to make specific builds more viable and thus have the playerbase move away from easy access to basically all different benefits that belong to different careers and specialisations.
Hopefully this will lead us to move away from the ridiculous builds that can both tank all enemies at the same time, boost their power levels, drain enemies without effort and obtain insane damage output at the same time. It's a good thing that players will actually have to make some choices and go for one role, rather than dominate a team in all different ways. If these changes can even begin to correct some of these errors, then it's a good thing.
Besides, Borticus said it last time: if one item dominates the entire discussion around something as big as the skill revamp which is one of the fundamental systems of the entire game, then that item is obviously too important. He was right back then, he's still right in that assessment.
Comments
Nothing in this update will make ISA or CCA "fresh or origional". Nothing in this update will give a "new take" on story missions we've played several hundred times. Nothing is this update magically generates "original content".
It's the same game. I just have to switch consoles before I go back to business as usual.
Not only was that a very crass response, you completely glossed over the intent of what was written to suit your own agenda and try and throw an underhanded dig my way, regardless I will clarify..
A blanket nerf across the board that essentially renders items "useless" and by that I mean if there's 2-3 alternatives that now do the action "better" but at a 15-30% overall reduction in efficiency, that item is essentially removed from the game.
Purest example is the science plasma consoles... first off, if these are so game breaking then this shoulda been addressed many moons ago when they were released and "not working as intended"... the massive changes to pre existing items is summarizable in one word, revenue.
I don't fault them for doing it as revenue is required to keep the lights on. But I'll call it like I see it and this is BS up and down the board. There was and is infitetely more sound ways to go about these changes that doesn't carry the optics of a cash grab through and through
I agree with you completely. The Romulan Embassy consoles have already been looked at once, but now they are being nerfed into oblivion. They will be literally useless to the point that they might as well be removed from the game. I honestly wouldn't mind them being looked at again and adjusted, but as of right now the adjustment is complete destruction. That seems to be a little bit of an overkill.
'...Only the farmers won. We lost. We'll always lose.'
In our case:
Only the Ferengi win. We lost. We'll always lose.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You should read your own posts then princess.
Spitakes. Thanks Vampeiyre, just brought back up some of my chocolate milk.
Thank you though
And I quote:
"This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now, then I hope we can move on to focusing on the rest of the Skill Revamp:
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question. No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community, nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term health.
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?"
They're basically going after five items right there on par with the plasmonic leech for dominating the meta, and about 5 more second tier 'yeah, that's substantially over the line too' ((looks pointedly at OSS)). Honestly, I'm watching some balls of brass on display with them shepherding this all forward and I slightly regret riling CrypticSpartan over a personal bugaboo of mine while he's otherwise occupied. Sorry man. My bad. Poor timing on my part.
But yeah, Bort doesn't like the idea of there being any peice of gear in the game that players rely on enough that people would actually try to claim the game's balance hinges on it.
Nor should he. I personally greatly dislike the idea that many people have that says you have to use leech on everything. Really? Every build? that's the definition of an OP peice of gear.
And as someone pointed out elsewhere, even after THIS recent nerf, it's still better than most consoles.
My character Tsin'xing
I guess it shouldn't have gone cross-faction, then.
It would have been a nerf hailed by the Fed masses as being overdue and celebrated.
I'm actually surprised people are taking it in a civilized manner, which is a little disappointing.
PvP and faction diversity were trashed just so EVERYONE can get their mitts on it.
Does PL need a nerf?
Nope, but if I've learned one thing after all these years playing the game it's this: There's no point in offering "feedback", as evidenced in his quote.
As mentioned by an earlier post, a new wave of OP-ness is most definitely on the horizon.
The new shiny(s).
A renewed round of power creep.
Is that in our "best interest" or Cryptic's?
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Hey! The Klingons got the Ionized Gas Sensor which is totally fair and equal in its effectiveness.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If they want to give you more power, they don't have to release a console to a faction that hasn't had it before. They can just make up some new piece of gear that's OP.
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
At .5 it'd be like a Tricobalt. Not great but usable. It'd be better as a BOff skill, in my opinion.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
EPIC: would only be do-able with teams of 100k + (per player average DPS)
ELITE: would remain the same, teams of 40K-50k players can do them with relative success. Problem is, rewards don't line up with time invested. ADJUST THE REWARDS of all queues based on average time to completion. Ground Elite is pretty flawless atm in terms of difficulty and rewards, though at the high end its still too easy.
ADV: Teams of 10-20k can complete them with relative success.
NORM: 0-5k teams can complete them with relative success.
Its well past due at this point with all the OP stuff you've sold us since LoR. What's the hold up ?
The most "un-fun" thing about STO is that its too easy.
I have the most fun these days when I get a crappy PUG or red alert that I can help along. Because its slightly less mind numbingly easy.
Yet you guys keep cramming these crazy abilities and traits down our throats. But never do anything for people who invest the most time in your game, and want a challenge that pays equitably for our time.
And now look at us.
ISA all the time.. A handful of people in other queues. PvP completely dead. Its sad.
Give us adv, elite, epic difficulties (solo-able where possible), normalize the PvE queue rewards based on average time to completion, and keep this difficulty range balanced going forward and I'll never complain again.
No, it's an indicator that your sick nerfs are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics. Aka, you didn't just nerf Leech, you nerfed everything built around it! That Epic Terran Space Set I got for DrainX? utterly useless now when the 1 item that can actually use it, is capped at +6 power. Or the Delta Alliance Ordnance set. Or the crafted consoles with DrainX, or pretty much everything. Not your problem, right?! You got your money out of us already.
Then you shouldn't have built everything around it, shouldnt you!?
There, fixed that for ya.
The victim role doesn't suit you. Nor does the patronizing, btw. YOU did this, very much on purpose, and very much NOT in *my* best interest.
Basically, the skill system revamp did in fact change countless of systems, skills and abilities in the game. Yet the major point of contention that dominated almost every feedback thread back then was how it had - basically completely accidentally - changed Plasmonic Leech.
If anything, I can congratulate anyone that was up in arms about the temporary/inadvertent change of Plasmonic Leech back then. You really convinced the devs that when they would ever start working on rebalancing the game, they'd had to look at it hard. And now they finally did.
If Cryptic wants your money because you like to pay for power, then they'll find easy ways to do it. It's something that some players don't seem to get, but if they want to make an item that's intentionally more powerful than anyhting has become that it becomes a staple of the game, they can just make it, and then adding a price tag to it is easy, too. Making something intentionally overpowered is not difficult for game designers. They can actually already do it completely by accident.
I know. I meant 'in a bubble' it would be better as a BOff skill.
Yeah, they kind of tried that already. It was a firestorm.
Because it is now unless you are specifically building a drainboat build. All my science consoles and my deflector and DrainX universal consoles on my Command Warbird are now just vendor trash, as they no longer serve any kind of function whatsoever in my build.
As such the way they have nerfed the Leech directly violates their goals.
- It completely destroys some builds completely and tells people that "their fun is wrong".
- It completely destroys the investments of zen, dilithium, energy credits and fleet credits of A LOT of players.
- It removes the choice of certain DrainX dedicated builds completely from the game.
Well said! Bort did not just nerf DrainX a bit (or a lot even), he just outright killed it. This Leech nerf renders every bit of DrainX gear COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!
And don't give me 'But you can still drain NPCs.' For one, nobody cares about that. Besides, lest ppl forget, you can never really drain a NPC the way you can a player; NPCs cheat. This was never a problem, really, as the beauty of the Leech was, that even when the game had decided the NPC was drained enough, you, the player, would still leech power off of it (as if the NPC had an infinite supply; so, the NPC cheating a bit, so as to never fall completely dry, was not a real issue). So, what's left now is a +6 power cap, and NPCs that never could be really drained in the first place. Sigh.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
I LOL-ed.
(Emphasis mine)
So, just because some people can't be bothered to actually specialise in draining and want to do it the easy way by having one console that also has the additional benefit of boosting the players' own power levels, drainX gear is now suddenly 'COMPLETELY WORTHLESS'?
Draining is still possible and anyone who actually knows about draining would know that Plasmonic leech only plays a marginal role in it. Other abilities are far (and now even) more important and that's how it should be as the players actually sacrifice something to put those other things (consoles, boff powers) on their ships.
Hopefully this will lead us to move away from the ridiculous builds that can both tank all enemies at the same time, boost their power levels, drain enemies without effort and obtain insane damage output at the same time. It's a good thing that players will actually have to make some choices and go for one role, rather than dominate a team in all different ways. If these changes can even begin to correct some of these errors, then it's a good thing.
Besides, Borticus said it last time: if one item dominates the entire discussion around something as big as the skill revamp which is one of the fundamental systems of the entire game, then that item is obviously too important. He was right back then, he's still right in that assessment.