For me personally, Yes, there are too many currencies. As others mentioned it's not as bad as it used to be but it's slowly getting back there, which isn't a great move. If anything, i feel that all marks should be reduced down to a basic mark that is universal while leaving the special rep/event items attained from adv/elite runs as is. This way, there is some distinction between the rep/events being special but not as much as the grind since there would be way more available content earning you marks for your goal than just being stuck in certain areas for how ever long it takes to get what you wanted.
Canonically, Dilithium is a very vaulable trade item because it is rare and can't be replicated. GPL is the go to currency. It has the most value in terms of universal currencies, numerous worlds use it, the Ferengi trade alliance uses it, bigger entities like the fed,kdf,roms use it for research. It's very valuable, while lobi (as told by Tom Paris) were pretty much a dime a dozen and useless. Admittedly, Cryptic made the right move in terms of it being a Quark subsidiary currency as Quark was the one trying to pawn it off on Harry Kim but the issue is how useless GPL is and will remain. I forget what exactly Cryptic did that gave so many people so much GPL but the Devs have actually said they will never do anything with GPL because there are some people who have hoarded insane amounts of it from what ever event. Honestly, I feel like they should just suck it up, admit that it was an error on their part and just bring it into a more valuable existance. I don't mind it being it's own currency with it's own store but a lot of the items are entirely useless. This would be a great currency for buying items like clothing and visual affects (aside from the holocrap). Add to the store canon and non-canon items for 100-500 bar depending on single item vs set. Great additions would be holodeck clothes like dixon hill suits and guns, various clothes and weapons that are already in game yet inaccessable. Maco would be a great set, additional skins and complexions for characters (Because my Borg Captains are still waiting on a full body skin... I'm looking at you Crypticjoejing. Get on that.)
But yeah, too many currencies, not enough value in some of them, please fix or allow us to exchange for better currencies for a fair rate. 2/1, 3/1 maybe? Let's face it, Cryptic would never allow a 1/1 trade ratio and would probably try for a 4/1 or worse.
I would not say at all there is too many currencies, but that there are too many tokens that take up inventory space like Elite mark tokens, which I think should be rolled into being part of the rep currency tab we have an removed from the inventory. Once you complete the projects int he reps, than the rep marks/elite marks become redundant an useless largely outside of converting, which is why I wish that at times they would go back to the older reps an update them a bit (new projects, maybe hanger-pets exclusive to that rep like the nukara and romulan rep, and even missions maybe.).
I would love to see some rewards that are linked to completing specific ques of a given rep, as it would give a reason for players to actually que for other stfs than merely the stfs with the best reward to time payout. This could be done thru how it was done in the old borg stfs with a random drop, or as a project in the rep that needs certain items that drop in a specific stf (maybe even specific difficulties) to complete it.
I would not say at all there is too many currencies, but that there are too many tokens that take up inventory space like Elite mark tokens, which I think should be rolled into being part of the rep currency tab we have an removed from the inventory. Once you complete the projects int he reps, than the rep marks/elite marks become redundant an useless largely outside of converting, which is why I wish that at times they would go back to the older reps an update them a bit (new projects, maybe hanger-pets exclusive to that rep like the nukara and romulan rep, and even missions maybe.).
I would love to see some rewards that are linked to completing specific ques of a given rep, as it would give a reason for players to actually que for other stfs than merely the stfs with the best reward to time payout. This could be done thru how it was done in the old borg stfs with a random drop, or as a project in the rep that needs certain items that drop in a specific stf (maybe even specific difficulties) to complete it.
perhaps there should be a seperate inventory tab for rep tokens and DOFF commodities, or better yet use the right-hand pane (in the assets screen) for the tokens and commodities
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Mirak - FED 23c, Vulkan, LV60 - TAC
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Melchiah - KDF, Gorn, LV60 - TAC
Ne'roon - KDF,Lethian, L60, TAC
Turel - ROM-KDF, Reman, 30, TAC
Elric - ROM-Fed, Romulan, L60, TAC
Richtor Belmont - FED 23c, Human,LV20, SCI
G'Kar - KDF, Gorn, L10
USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
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I would not say at all there is too many currencies, but that there are too many tokens that take up inventory space like Elite mark tokens, which I think should be rolled into being part of the rep currency tab we have an removed from the inventory. Once you complete the projects int he reps, than the rep marks/elite marks become redundant an useless largely outside of converting, which is why I wish that at times they would go back to the older reps an update them a bit (new projects, maybe hanger-pets exclusive to that rep like the nukara and romulan rep, and even missions maybe.).
I would love to see some rewards that are linked to completing specific ques of a given rep, as it would give a reason for players to actually que for other stfs than merely the stfs with the best reward to time payout. This could be done thru how it was done in the old borg stfs with a random drop, or as a project in the rep that needs certain items that drop in a specific stf (maybe even specific difficulties) to complete it.
perhaps there should be a seperate inventory tab for rep tokens and DOFF commodities, or better yet use the right-hand pane (in the assets screen) for the tokens and commodities
THat is what I mean by rolling them into being part of the rep currency tab that is in the Asset tab. there are other thigns that would take the place of the elite marks in our inventories I am sure. Like for players that enjoy collecting would be pets or other such unique collectable items,
"Too many currencies" is only a problem when
A. Currencies are too hard to get
B. Currencies have no real use
And the only one that fits either of those is GPL, and it only fits B.
True.
I believe the whole rep mark argument is based on some people's desire to do all the reps grinding ISA or CCA instead of trying out new content.
Any introduction of an universal mark would (off course) mean the removal of ISA and CCA and the daily mark bonus.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
"Too many currencies" is only a problem when
A. Currencies are too hard to get
B. Currencies have no real use
And the only one that fits either of those is GPL, and it only fits B.
True.
I believe the whole rep mark argument is based on some people's desire to do all the reps grinding ISA or CCA instead of trying out new content.
Any introduction of an universal mark would (off course) mean the removal of ISA and CCA and the daily mark bonus.
A better alternative (I thoroughly despise the practice of removing content) would be to restrict universal marks to older reps, while the two most recent reps would still have their own individual marks. This would reduce the ever expanding number of rep marks down to three, which is much more manageable imho.
On a separate note, I personally find the separation of EC, dilithium, lobi, and GPL (ok, I forgot gpl was a thing before this thread, lol) annoying, but I can't think of a way to condense them that wouldn't destroy the dilex (or it's hypothetical replacement) in some way. I guess this is just part of what I hate about F2P MMOs, the nice thing about games like WoW is that most things use a single currency: gold.
There used to be a while lot more though, like 5 different exploration currencies, maybe 5 different pvp currencies too? Can't remember. They got rid of all that because it was too confusing, but they've gone right back to having a ridiculous number of currencies anyway.
Actually, with the Lukari rep, we crossed the line I think... Remember: It's not just the rep-marks that are currency... The special thingies are too.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Rep marks dont really feel so much like currency to me, in that I cannot buy them, trade with them, or trade items purchased with them. Imo there is zen, ec, dilithium, latinum and to a lesser extent fleet credits. Like many others I do wish cryptic would make the gpl store a tad more desirable in terms of items offered or variety.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
You may regret what you wish for as they may go the route of the MACO Uniform and put things in the GPL Shop for 1.5 Bajillion Latium.
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'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The only real currencies in STO are Energy Credits, Dilithium, Zen, Lobi, Fleet Credits, and GPL since all of them allow you to purchase items from a store. Marks and Elite Marks (Borg Neural Processors, etc) are just project inputs that are not much different from common duty officers and R&D materials except for that common duty officers and R&D materials have more use.
@starkaos isn't that just semantics? The rep project for gear is exactly the same, it just looks different but you buy exactly what is advertised/offered for your "input" (which includes EC and dil)
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
@starkaos isn't that just semantics? The rep project for gear is exactly the same, it just looks different but you buy exactly what is advertised/offered for your "input" (which includes EC and dil)
The distinction is necessary or else duty officers have to be considered as a currency. Duty officers are limited to the Nukara and New Romulus Reputations for the Hangar Pets and the summon consumable abilities. Then there is the ton of duty officers that are consumed during Fleet projects.
Treating duty officers as a currency sounds like trading dilithium, duty officers, energy credits, and marks to some trader and they give you a piece of equipment. So duty officers are just a commodity instead of people doing their job. While considering duty officers as a project input sounds more like providing resources and man-hours to a job to produce a piece of equipment similar to what is involved in any job with a deadline.
I see your point, however I do not consider DOFFs as being actual crew RP wise - after all, I can have infinite clones of the same people that never appear outside of the duty officer game and projects. However I'd make the distinction gameplay wise with duty officers having a game effect, you can slot them in active slots for active or passive benefits which make them distinct from a "currency" like EC, dil or marks that exist solely to be exchanged for a specific purpose.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I see your point, however I do not consider DOFFs as being actual crew RP wise - after all, I can have infinite clones of the same people that never appear outside of the duty officer game and projects. However I'd make the distinction gameplay wise with duty officers having a game effect, you can slot them in active slots for active or passive benefits which make them distinct from a "currency" like EC, dil or marks that exist solely to be exchanged for a specific purpose.
A currency is not something that exists only to be exchanged for a specific purpose. A currency is widely accepted as a medium of exchange in general.
EC is a currency. Dilithium is a currency. Marks are like store coupons (actually they're a symbolic representation of the organization in question owing you favors, but coupons are the more useful analogy for this), accepted as (partial) payment for specific items in a specific shop only.
A currency is not something that exists only to be exchanged for a specific purpose. A currency is widely accepted as a medium of exchange in general.
EC is a currency. Dilithium is a currency. Marks are like store coupons (actually they're a symbolic representation of the organization in question owing you favors, but coupons are the more useful analogy for this), accepted as (partial) payment for specific items in a specific shop only.
Fair point, although I have the option to convert marks to dil although not the other way around. Still, for the purpose of the discussion I would consider marks still a currency in the broader meaning as this is what the thread is clearly about. It could be renamed to "are there too many ways to pay for stuff" or similiar to make it clearer, but I think the debate now focusses on the three main currencies (fleet marks also would count as marks since they are bound to be spent on fleet store items - but what about Lobi? see - there are too many things in this game) and marks for every reputation while we have once currency that is severly underused and could see some use if the old dil store and GPL got unified and streamlined so we could use GPL to purchase some of the dil items.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I see your point, however I do not consider DOFFs as being actual crew RP wise - after all, I can have infinite clones of the same people that never appear outside of the duty officer game and projects. However I'd make the distinction gameplay wise with duty officers having a game effect, you can slot them in active slots for active or passive benefits which make them distinct from a "currency" like EC, dil or marks that exist solely to be exchanged for a specific purpose.
A currency is not something that exists only to be exchanged for a specific purpose. A currency is widely accepted as a medium of exchange in general.
EC is a currency. Dilithium is a currency. Marks are like store coupons (actually they're a symbolic representation of the organization in question owing you favors, but coupons are the more useful analogy for this), accepted as (partial) payment for specific items in a specific shop only.
Rep marks are no different than the exploration currencies that used to exist. Those could only be used in a specific shop that only sold items of a certain level, and Cryptic itself specifically referred to them as currencies.
A currency is not something that exists only to be exchanged for a specific purpose. A currency is widely accepted as a medium of exchange in general.
EC is a currency. Dilithium is a currency. Marks are like store coupons (actually they're a symbolic representation of the organization in question owing you favors, but coupons are the more useful analogy for this), accepted as (partial) payment for specific items in a specific shop only.
Fair point, although I have the option to convert marks to dil although not the other way around. Still, for the purpose of the discussion I would consider marks still a currency in the broader meaning as this is what the thread is clearly about. It could be renamed to "are there too many ways to pay for stuff" or similiar to make it clearer, but I think the debate now focusses on the three main currencies (fleet marks also would count as marks since they are bound to be spent on fleet store items - but what about Lobi? see - there are too many things in this game) and marks for every reputation while we have once currency that is severly underused and could see some use if the old dil store and GPL got unified and streamlined so we could use GPL to purchase some of the dil items.
No, there are not "too many things in this game." In fact the game could use a whole lot more reward differentiation. The homogeneity of the reward structure is directly at fault for the current situation in which only a few queues pop in a timely manner.
And sure, they could sell more stuff for GPL. But GPL is basically just EC with a boring timesink of a conversion method (dabo) in between. So what's the point? Could just as well sell stuff for EC.
No, there are not "too many things in this game." In fact the game could use a whole lot more reward differentiation. The homogeneity of the reward structure is directly at fault for the current situation in which only a few queues pop in a timely manner.
And sure, they could sell more stuff for GPL. But GPL is basically just EC with a boring timesink of a conversion method (dabo) in between. So what's the point? Could just as well sell stuff for EC.
How so? The reason queues are empty is because nobody needs to play them. The way I see it, the amount of people playing a queue when a new reputation comes around is fairly good since everyone works on their reputation and the gear, if they want it. But once that is complete there is no reason for them to participate in the queue any more. This eliminates veterans (probably a large chunk of the playerbase) completely, especially the older queues see no action at all since everybody already went through them and those who don't probably hit the BZ because the queues seldomly if ever pop. Unless you give people something to play for (elite drops we had pre F2P) the queues won't get more interesting.
The GPL thing is my point, it's pointless and the items you get for GPL are undesireable. The whole currency is obsolete and just bloats the system. The "old" dil store (the Mk X weapons you can buy etc.) is also completely useless. One could however fuse the two together, dust it off a bit and let players use GPL to buy some useful dil store items, or even put some of the older Lobi items in there. I think it would be preferable to scrap or ignore the whole thing.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
They "don't need to play them" because the rewards are so transferable. More currencies puts up firewalls between the bins and keeps the single easiest/most rewarding path from crowding out all other paths with similar reward types but not reward rates.
No, there are not "too many things in this game." In fact the game could use a whole lot more reward differentiation. The homogeneity of the reward structure is directly at fault for the current situation in which only a few queues pop in a timely manner.
And sure, they could sell more stuff for GPL. But GPL is basically just EC with a boring timesink of a conversion method (dabo) in between. So what's the point? Could just as well sell stuff for EC.
How so? The reason queues are empty is because nobody needs to play them. The way I see it, the amount of people playing a queue when a new reputation comes around is fairly good since everyone works on their reputation and the gear, if they want it. But once that is complete there is no reason for them to participate in the queue any more. This eliminates veterans (probably a large chunk of the playerbase) completely, especially the older queues see no action at all since everybody already went through them and those who don't probably hit the BZ because the queues seldomly if ever pop. Unless you give people something to play for (elite drops we had pre F2P) the queues won't get more interesting.
The GPL thing is my point, it's pointless and the items you get for GPL are undesireable. The whole currency is obsolete and just bloats the system. The "old" dil store (the Mk X weapons you can buy etc.) is also completely useless. One could however fuse the two together, dust it off a bit and let players use GPL to buy some useful dil store items, or even put some of the older Lobi items in there. I think it would be preferable to scrap or ignore the whole thing.
I think she is right the whole system would make sense if all marks would change to one currency no more rep marks but convert it to GPL or put it in a Dillithium store something like that make it easy and probably the player base would play other rep missions as well to earn it..... let's say we would put all on GPL in witch the Ferengi are so fond off. Make it harder to win at the Dabo Table and put all REP stuff into the GPL Store. and with the popular Rep missions you can earn GPL. everybody happy and not so much clutter in game and it make some room on the servers as well. For everybody a win win situation. We get a nice clean game with lots people doing certain popular Rep missions. And the Devs can clean up Rep missions that aren't so popular with the player base. Just an Idea....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
No, there are not "too many things in this game." In fact the game could use a whole lot more reward differentiation. The homogeneity of the reward structure is directly at fault for the current situation in which only a few queues pop in a timely manner.
And sure, they could sell more stuff for GPL. But GPL is basically just EC with a boring timesink of a conversion method (dabo) in between. So what's the point? Could just as well sell stuff for EC.
How so? The reason queues are empty is because nobody needs to play them. The way I see it, the amount of people playing a queue when a new reputation comes around is fairly good since everyone works on their reputation and the gear, if they want it. But once that is complete there is no reason for them to participate in the queue any more. This eliminates veterans (probably a large chunk of the playerbase) completely, especially the older queues see no action at all since everybody already went through them and those who don't probably hit the BZ because the queues seldomly if ever pop. Unless you give people something to play for (elite drops we had pre F2P) the queues won't get more interesting.
I still haven't even tried a single run of any of the tzenkethi stuff, because BRA gives lukemarks and a better dil reward. And now that the Breach loads all my toons with lukemarks I'll probably end up running them only a few times on my main to get gear tokens. It's truly a shame this reward structure.
Yes, there should definitely be unique rare drops for every queue. That, along with making the numerical rewards scale to average completion time (like Foundry missions do) and removing the "choice of marks" from everything except some special event content would go a long way to restoring interest in a diverse content range.
The GPL thing is my point, it's pointless and the items you get for GPL are undesireable. The whole currency is obsolete and just bloats the system. The "old" dil store (the Mk X weapons you can buy etc.) is also completely useless. One could however fuse the two together, dust it off a bit and let players use GPL to buy some useful dil store items, or even put some of the older Lobi items in there. I think it would be preferable to scrap or ignore the whole thing.
As it is now they could well remove GPL and replace it with EC everywhere it's used. GPL is just EC laundered at a dabo table.
If reputation marks aren't currencies, then what are those?
Talking strictly about EC, Dil and GPL, then no, those are perfectly fine. However the sheer number of all kinds of different rep marks we have to obtain will surely seem frightening to new players.
New players would encounter rep marks 1 faction at a time. So it wouldnt be that overwhelming, unless they were offline for 3 years and came back to 4-5 new rep factions.
No. It's all easy to understand and easy to manage. Marks can all be counted as a single currency which brings the number of currencies down to what 5 or 6? Not a big deal. I understand that other people see elite marks as currency but I have an easy management system for them that works for me.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I personally as before would love to see stf specific reward drops either that are dropped within the stf, or that you need specific items from that stf to complete the item's rep-project. Though I also like the idea of each rep having afew daily and even weekly missions you could get, which you needed to complete either a specific stf or a group of stfs that are linked to that rep's mark type, if you had these rep-missions giving a good degree of reward (either gear wise or mark wise)it could push players to engage in the other stfs we have.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,754Community Moderator
We should have a PvP currency, gained from doing - duh - PvP that gets you dedicated PvP gear (maybe use this as an opportunity to introduce a PvP gear and skill tree and a PvE one) and then there could be generic marks for the reputations so you can play what you like best to advance the reputations. However in order to acquire the reputation gear you would have to play the specific missions and get special drops like we used to. I'm not sure at this point wether this would help repopulate queues since people work for their gear or does nothing since at some point everyone has the gear and stops playing again.
Making a Generic Rep Mark would make the Queues even more dead than they are now, and kill the Battlezones outright. You want to know why? Because EVERYONE would decide to just run Infected. That's it. No need to bother with ANY OTHER QUEUE to advance Rep because "Its too hard. Infected is the end all Rep source because I can faceroll it!"
And Special Drops are not a viable option anymore. Relying on the Random Number Gods to smile on you for gear... you could spend MONTHS trying to get one piece while a fleetmate is getting swamped with them... and guess what? They're Bind on Pickup!
Grind like that might work for WoW, but it won't work for STO.
[soapbox]
As for the PvP rep thing... until they address the VAST discrepancy between the current DPS Meta builds and the average player, PvP is still going to be a case of "Whoever is seen first is vaporized INSTANTLY", which is NOT fun for the majority of players. Especially those who are ALWAYS on the receiving end of that Vaporization. Why bother doing a PvP if you're not even going to be able to BLINK, let alone fight. And it happens OVER AND OVER AND OVER again until you Rage Quit.
There needs to be a way for EVERYONE to be able to participate, not just the special cookies who have mastered the Art of the Build to such a degree that anyone that gets in their sights gets melted INSTANTLY.
[/soapbox]
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
We should have a PvP currency, gained from doing - duh - PvP that gets you dedicated PvP gear (maybe use this as an opportunity to introduce a PvP gear and skill tree and a PvE one) and then there could be generic marks for the reputations so you can play what you like best to advance the reputations. However in order to acquire the reputation gear you would have to play the specific missions and get special drops like we used to. I'm not sure at this point wether this would help repopulate queues since people work for their gear or does nothing since at some point everyone has the gear and stops playing again.
Making a Generic Rep Mark would make the Queues even more dead than they are now, and kill the Battlezones outright. You want to know why? Because EVERYONE would decide to just run Infected. That's it. No need to bother with ANY OTHER QUEUE to advance Rep because "Its too hard. Infected is the end all Rep source because I can faceroll it!"
The easy solution for infected is to just give the Borg their much needed buff. If they were to go with a universal mark, I think it would be good to exclude the two most recent reps from it as well.
And Special Drops are not a viable option anymore. Relying on the Random Number Gods to smile on you for gear... you could spend MONTHS trying to get one piece while a fleetmate is getting swamped with them... and guess what? They're Bind on Pickup!
Grind like that might work for WoW, but it won't work for STO.
If the drop rate is tuned properly, you should never spend months trying to farm for any particular item. In WoW the only items that've ever taken that long for me to obtain were raid drops, and that's only because you can only run them once a week.
My personal opinion on the drop situation for STO is that:
1) instance mobs should drop items from their associated rep store with a very small chance to drop mk10 rare versions of the actual rep gear
2) each phase of an instance should drop a random mk10 very rare version of a rep item with a small chance of it being mk12 instead
3) bosses should drop a random mk12 very rare rep item with a small chance of it being mk13 instead. If you feel it necessary
The current grind system could remain as bad luck protection if you'd like.
Making a Generic Rep Mark would make the Queues even more dead than they are now, and kill the Battlezones outright. You want to know why? Because EVERYONE would decide to just run Infected. That's it. No need to bother with ANY OTHER QUEUE to advance Rep because "Its too hard. Infected is the end all Rep source because I can faceroll it!"
Yes, I thought about that afterwards as well. However, this assumes that the game stays the same and just the dropped marks change. With tweaks to how the mission itself works this could be countered somewhat. Remember, the Borg themselves are still at DR or even pre level and just can't keep up with the power creep - they'd need to adapt. But maybe marks are a bad system anyway, why not make it that actual progress in favour of a rep faction increases your level with them? Do missions, kill Borg, that sort of thing. That would also help with the next point.
And Special Drops are not a viable option anymore. Relying on the Random Number Gods to smile on you for gear... you could spend MONTHS trying to get one piece while a fleetmate is getting swamped with them... and guess what? They're Bind on Pickup!
Grind like that might work for WoW, but it won't work for STO.
I have to ask flat out, what's the bad thing here? I mean, what else are you supposed to do in sTO? - you play the same content over and over and over and over again regardless of having rare tech drops or grinding out the reputation. You have no obligation to get the elite prestige mk XIII vanity reputation drop, but the prospect of maybe getting it would be motivation to look forward to something and be excited when it finally happens. Right now you are doing the exact same thing, but without looking forward to anything. I am an old Targ for sure, but "grinds" like this worked in other hack&slay games like Diablo or earlier MMOs like Camelot - this is just what you did it for.
The PvP thing boils down to point 1 again, of course it needs tweaks - this is what I mentioned PvP gear and setups for, it would be a different side-game with it's own traits, items and rules.
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Canonically, Dilithium is a very vaulable trade item because it is rare and can't be replicated. GPL is the go to currency. It has the most value in terms of universal currencies, numerous worlds use it, the Ferengi trade alliance uses it, bigger entities like the fed,kdf,roms use it for research. It's very valuable, while lobi (as told by Tom Paris) were pretty much a dime a dozen and useless. Admittedly, Cryptic made the right move in terms of it being a Quark subsidiary currency as Quark was the one trying to pawn it off on Harry Kim but the issue is how useless GPL is and will remain. I forget what exactly Cryptic did that gave so many people so much GPL but the Devs have actually said they will never do anything with GPL because there are some people who have hoarded insane amounts of it from what ever event. Honestly, I feel like they should just suck it up, admit that it was an error on their part and just bring it into a more valuable existance. I don't mind it being it's own currency with it's own store but a lot of the items are entirely useless. This would be a great currency for buying items like clothing and visual affects (aside from the holocrap). Add to the store canon and non-canon items for 100-500 bar depending on single item vs set. Great additions would be holodeck clothes like dixon hill suits and guns, various clothes and weapons that are already in game yet inaccessable. Maco would be a great set, additional skins and complexions for characters (Because my Borg Captains are still waiting on a full body skin... I'm looking at you Crypticjoejing. Get on that.)
But yeah, too many currencies, not enough value in some of them, please fix or allow us to exchange for better currencies for a fair rate. 2/1, 3/1 maybe? Let's face it, Cryptic would never allow a 1/1 trade ratio and would probably try for a 4/1 or worse.
I would love to see some rewards that are linked to completing specific ques of a given rep, as it would give a reason for players to actually que for other stfs than merely the stfs with the best reward to time payout. This could be done thru how it was done in the old borg stfs with a random drop, or as a project in the rep that needs certain items that drop in a specific stf (maybe even specific difficulties) to complete it.
perhaps there should be a seperate inventory tab for rep tokens and DOFF commodities, or better yet use the right-hand pane (in the assets screen) for the tokens and commodities
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THat is what I mean by rolling them into being part of the rep currency tab that is in the Asset tab. there are other thigns that would take the place of the elite marks in our inventories I am sure. Like for players that enjoy collecting would be pets or other such unique collectable items,
I believe the whole rep mark argument is based on some people's desire to do all the reps grinding ISA or CCA instead of trying out new content.
Any introduction of an universal mark would (off course) mean the removal of ISA and CCA and the daily mark bonus.
A better alternative (I thoroughly despise the practice of removing content) would be to restrict universal marks to older reps, while the two most recent reps would still have their own individual marks. This would reduce the ever expanding number of rep marks down to three, which is much more manageable imho.
On a separate note, I personally find the separation of EC, dilithium, lobi, and GPL (ok, I forgot gpl was a thing before this thread, lol) annoying, but I can't think of a way to condense them that wouldn't destroy the dilex (or it's hypothetical replacement) in some way. I guess this is just part of what I hate about F2P MMOs, the nice thing about games like WoW is that most things use a single currency: gold.
Actually, with the Lukari rep, we crossed the line I think... Remember: It's not just the rep-marks that are currency... The special thingies are too.
Imo there is zen, ec, dilithium, latinum and to a lesser extent fleet credits.
Like many others I do wish cryptic would make the gpl store a tad more desirable in terms of items offered or variety.
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The distinction is necessary or else duty officers have to be considered as a currency. Duty officers are limited to the Nukara and New Romulus Reputations for the Hangar Pets and the summon consumable abilities. Then there is the ton of duty officers that are consumed during Fleet projects.
Treating duty officers as a currency sounds like trading dilithium, duty officers, energy credits, and marks to some trader and they give you a piece of equipment. So duty officers are just a commodity instead of people doing their job. While considering duty officers as a project input sounds more like providing resources and man-hours to a job to produce a piece of equipment similar to what is involved in any job with a deadline.
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EC is a currency. Dilithium is a currency. Marks are like store coupons (actually they're a symbolic representation of the organization in question owing you favors, but coupons are the more useful analogy for this), accepted as (partial) payment for specific items in a specific shop only.
Fair point, although I have the option to convert marks to dil although not the other way around. Still, for the purpose of the discussion I would consider marks still a currency in the broader meaning as this is what the thread is clearly about. It could be renamed to "are there too many ways to pay for stuff" or similiar to make it clearer, but I think the debate now focusses on the three main currencies (fleet marks also would count as marks since they are bound to be spent on fleet store items - but what about Lobi? see - there are too many things in this game) and marks for every reputation while we have once currency that is severly underused and could see some use if the old dil store and GPL got unified and streamlined so we could use GPL to purchase some of the dil items.
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Rep marks are no different than the exploration currencies that used to exist. Those could only be used in a specific shop that only sold items of a certain level, and Cryptic itself specifically referred to them as currencies.
And sure, they could sell more stuff for GPL. But GPL is basically just EC with a boring timesink of a conversion method (dabo) in between. So what's the point? Could just as well sell stuff for EC.
How so? The reason queues are empty is because nobody needs to play them. The way I see it, the amount of people playing a queue when a new reputation comes around is fairly good since everyone works on their reputation and the gear, if they want it. But once that is complete there is no reason for them to participate in the queue any more. This eliminates veterans (probably a large chunk of the playerbase) completely, especially the older queues see no action at all since everybody already went through them and those who don't probably hit the BZ because the queues seldomly if ever pop. Unless you give people something to play for (elite drops we had pre F2P) the queues won't get more interesting.
The GPL thing is my point, it's pointless and the items you get for GPL are undesireable. The whole currency is obsolete and just bloats the system. The "old" dil store (the Mk X weapons you can buy etc.) is also completely useless. One could however fuse the two together, dust it off a bit and let players use GPL to buy some useful dil store items, or even put some of the older Lobi items in there. I think it would be preferable to scrap or ignore the whole thing.
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I think she is right the whole system would make sense if all marks would change to one currency no more rep marks but convert it to GPL or put it in a Dillithium store something like that make it easy and probably the player base would play other rep missions as well to earn it..... let's say we would put all on GPL in witch the Ferengi are so fond off. Make it harder to win at the Dabo Table and put all REP stuff into the GPL Store. and with the popular Rep missions you can earn GPL. everybody happy and not so much clutter in game and it make some room on the servers as well. For everybody a win win situation. We get a nice clean game with lots people doing certain popular Rep missions. And the Devs can clean up Rep missions that aren't so popular with the player base. Just an Idea....
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Yes, there should definitely be unique rare drops for every queue. That, along with making the numerical rewards scale to average completion time (like Foundry missions do) and removing the "choice of marks" from everything except some special event content would go a long way to restoring interest in a diverse content range.
As it is now they could well remove GPL and replace it with EC everywhere it's used. GPL is just EC laundered at a dabo table.
New players would encounter rep marks 1 faction at a time. So it wouldnt be that overwhelming, unless they were offline for 3 years and came back to 4-5 new rep factions.
Making a Generic Rep Mark would make the Queues even more dead than they are now, and kill the Battlezones outright. You want to know why? Because EVERYONE would decide to just run Infected. That's it. No need to bother with ANY OTHER QUEUE to advance Rep because "Its too hard. Infected is the end all Rep source because I can faceroll it!"
And Special Drops are not a viable option anymore. Relying on the Random Number Gods to smile on you for gear... you could spend MONTHS trying to get one piece while a fleetmate is getting swamped with them... and guess what? They're Bind on Pickup!
Grind like that might work for WoW, but it won't work for STO.
[soapbox]
As for the PvP rep thing... until they address the VAST discrepancy between the current DPS Meta builds and the average player, PvP is still going to be a case of "Whoever is seen first is vaporized INSTANTLY", which is NOT fun for the majority of players. Especially those who are ALWAYS on the receiving end of that Vaporization. Why bother doing a PvP if you're not even going to be able to BLINK, let alone fight. And it happens OVER AND OVER AND OVER again until you Rage Quit.
There needs to be a way for EVERYONE to be able to participate, not just the special cookies who have mastered the Art of the Build to such a degree that anyone that gets in their sights gets melted INSTANTLY.
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The easy solution for infected is to just give the Borg their much needed buff. If they were to go with a universal mark, I think it would be good to exclude the two most recent reps from it as well.
If the drop rate is tuned properly, you should never spend months trying to farm for any particular item. In WoW the only items that've ever taken that long for me to obtain were raid drops, and that's only because you can only run them once a week.
My personal opinion on the drop situation for STO is that:
1) instance mobs should drop items from their associated rep store with a very small chance to drop mk10 rare versions of the actual rep gear
2) each phase of an instance should drop a random mk10 very rare version of a rep item with a small chance of it being mk12 instead
3) bosses should drop a random mk12 very rare rep item with a small chance of it being mk13 instead. If you feel it necessary
The current grind system could remain as bad luck protection if you'd like.
Yes, I thought about that afterwards as well. However, this assumes that the game stays the same and just the dropped marks change. With tweaks to how the mission itself works this could be countered somewhat. Remember, the Borg themselves are still at DR or even pre level and just can't keep up with the power creep - they'd need to adapt. But maybe marks are a bad system anyway, why not make it that actual progress in favour of a rep faction increases your level with them? Do missions, kill Borg, that sort of thing. That would also help with the next point.
I have to ask flat out, what's the bad thing here? I mean, what else are you supposed to do in sTO? - you play the same content over and over and over and over again regardless of having rare tech drops or grinding out the reputation. You have no obligation to get the elite prestige mk XIII vanity reputation drop, but the prospect of maybe getting it would be motivation to look forward to something and be excited when it finally happens. Right now you are doing the exact same thing, but without looking forward to anything. I am an old Targ for sure, but "grinds" like this worked in other hack&slay games like Diablo or earlier MMOs like Camelot - this is just what you did it for.
The PvP thing boils down to point 1 again, of course it needs tweaks - this is what I mentioned PvP gear and setups for, it would be a different side-game with it's own traits, items and rules.
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