To be honest the Bort probably had DHC capability thrown on as an after thought and wasn't really designed for them. It's not the only flying bathtub that can use DHCs in the game.
Quite, not the only one bad for the job. Like I knew better than to try Scimitar and D'Deridex with DHC/DC fittings for PVP Interestingly, the D'D and Scimitar were not favored by the Roms for PVP. Too unwieldy, the Warbirds that excelled for PVP were the smaller, faster ones. T'Varo, Dhelan, Mogai, Ha'feh. Those Warbirds were fast, hit hard coming out of cloaks, and zipped away before you knew it. The D'D and Scimitar were poor for that. Once out of cloaks they were sitting ducks.
When I was heavy into PVP, my absolute favorite Carrier was the JHDC. But I fitted her as a Beamboat because it was madness taking a brick like that and fitting it with DC/DHC weapons. Escorts would never be in her firing arc no matter how I specced her for PVP if using narrow arc weapons. JHDC with beams can be built to be tougher and take the focused attacks every carrier faced in PVP. I had it fitted with double Elite Orion Interceptors to constantly harass and pin ships to cripple their speed and thereby nuking their Defense, making them easy for spike dmg attacks for the team. This made my JHDC a threat that couldn't just be ignored and always a focus fire target. With all the grav wells, Escorts going to my ship's tail, DHC/DC fittings would have been 100% useless.
Yeah, my favored D'd build is basically a FaW tank. I kinda do the same with the Orion Marauder, Obelisk, Gal-X, and pretty much all slow ships, to include Bortas.
T'varo lends itself to Kinetic builds. So I use a torp heavy build on it. I actually once built a Mogai that used FaW with DBB, that was impressively deadly.
At any rate, the point is to use the strengths of a ship when doing builds, and not try to force it to be something it's not.
The biggest problem with the T6 Vorcha is that the layout doesn't transition to anything that ends well. The result will be a most assuredly crappy ship. Mediocrity is pretty much the best possible outcome. Its antiquated 4/4 layout renders it unsuitable for a forward-facing configuration and it looks absolutely ridiculous firing beam arrays out of its nothings sideways.
Umm...except 4/4 doesn't mean a damn thing when all anyone every does is just shove 8 beams on it and spam faw...5/3 or 4/4...it's the same thing.
personally I prefer a little style and use 4 dual beamers with a couple omnis in the back seat. Or maybe 3 dual beams and a torp. But I also don't really care about the min/max elite 1%
Well most people just stick beams on and faw everything because it's easy and its the most powerful...I personally avoid faw because I don't find it fun...I don't find it fun being a flying beam turret. I like to use cannons and torpedoes...like in the show...unfortunately the way this game functions...in punishes you more the more authentic you try to be to the shows.
if I have the space I keep an esn or lt faw for cluster torps, fighters, etc but I prefer overload myself.
as for theory crafting take a long hard look at the naj'sov, youll get an idea what itll look like
We are getting another new KDF ship this time in a R&D promotion which is great adding to the fleet and available admiralty cards.
But please please PLEASE can we have a T6 Vor'cha, T6 Nova, T6 SteamRunner and T6 Sabre and if i'm really good this year could i please ask Santa for a T6 Norway class. Thank you.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
To be honest the Bort probably had DHC capability thrown on as an after thought and wasn't really designed for them. It's not the only flying bathtub that can use DHCs in the game.
Quite, not the only one bad for the job. Like I knew better than to try Scimitar and D'Deridex with DHC/DC fittings for PVP Interestingly, the D'D and Scimitar were not favored by the Roms for PVP. Too unwieldy, the Warbirds that excelled for PVP were the smaller, faster ones. T'Varo, Dhelan, Mogai, Ha'feh. Those Warbirds were fast, hit hard coming out of cloaks, and zipped away before you knew it. The D'D and Scimitar were poor for that. Once out of cloaks they were sitting ducks.
When I was heavy into PVP, my absolute favorite Carrier was the JHDC. But I fitted her as a Beamboat because it was madness taking a brick like that and fitting it with DC/DHC weapons. Escorts would never be in her firing arc no matter how I specced her for PVP if using narrow arc weapons. JHDC with beams can be built to be tougher and take the focused attacks every carrier faced in PVP. I had it fitted with double Elite Orion Interceptors to constantly harass and pin ships to cripple their speed and thereby nuking their Defense, making them easy for spike dmg attacks for the team. This made my JHDC a threat that couldn't just be ignored and always a focus fire target. With all the grav wells, Escorts going to my ship's tail, DHC/DC fittings would have been 100% useless.
Yeah, my favored D'd build is basically a FaW tank. I kinda do the same with the Orion Marauder, Obelisk, Gal-X, and pretty much all slow ships, to include Bortas.
T'varo lends itself to Kinetic builds. So I use a torp heavy build on it. I actually once built a Mogai that used FaW with DBB, that was impressively deadly.
At any rate, the point is to use the strengths of a ship when doing builds, and not try to force it to be something it's not.
I do remember years ago someone making a D'Deridex work with turrets, single cannons, photonic shockwave for the disables in PVP. I never saw anyone do something like that with the D'D nor Scimitar in PVP, making it an alpha strike monster. Usually the D'D or Scimitar came out of cloak (or dragged out of cloak by various means), then they were sitting ducks if they didn't have a Beam Array build. They simply couldn't escape, no tricks would let them separate and recloak.
We got very good in chasing down Battle Cloaking, fast ships like BOPs, T'Varo, Dhelan, etc. Chase them down, disabling cloaks, finding them. So a slow a.f. ship like a D'D and Scimitar were easy.
Which made the simpler play of the Standard Cloak Klingon Battlecruisers simple. There was no disengagement. Once a KDF Battlecruiser made its presence known, it was committed until defeat or victory.
Another thing I didn't care for was 5/3 weapons layout on big, slow ships for PVP. 5 weapons forward is great in PVE but in a big ship in PVP, that's meaningless as those ships had a terrible time presenting those weapons on fast, nimble targets. Hilarious watching a 5/3 slow behemoth try to keep pace with a JHAS or some Escort that is on their tail.
Speaking of Mogai, you made me remember a hilarious occasion. Using my KDF-Rom Tac, I had acquired the Mogai and gave it a whirl in another wonderful time in Cap & Hold (or "Cap & 'Splode"). There was a Fed flying a Nebula and I decloaked and tried out my alpha strike. Wasn't the best but I still destroyed him, but took longer than what I wanted.
The guy got butt hurt about me blowing him up. Yes, I know, dying in PVP? UNIMAGINABLE! So he started talking s--t in match zone chat about how my alpha strike sucked. Truth be told, he was right. BUT I STILL KILLED HIM. So I made it a point for the rest of the match to find him and kill him. I did it. 5-6 more times. Every time someone gets killed, there was an in-match announcement, "Ti'el has destroyed ____" and so for a multiple times, everyone in both the KDF & Feds knew I killed him more than a handful of times in the match. Every time I said in match zone chat that I killed him.
Again.
And again.
And again.
AND AGAIN.
He was sooo mad. The best part was when I took my Mogai after I destroyed him once, then recloaked, and camped outside the Fed spawnpoint. I gambled he was going to spawn, then Full Impulse to where the big fighting was. I positioned a net of Tractor Mines where I knew Feds would travel through, then positioned myself, in cloak.
So here comes Hero Feddybear in his Nebula, he spawns and sure enough, goes Full Impulse exactly where I knew he was going to go. The Tractor Beam Mines snag him right out of Full Impulse, pin him in place (0 speed = 0 bonus defense = DEAD IN PVP). Before he could do anything to escape, I decloaked already with APA3 / Tactical Fleet / FOMM / APO3 / BO3 / CRF1, pop Aux Battery, then fired off the Ionized Particle Beam Console, followed up by Proton Barrage from the Dyson 3pc Space Set bonus.
DEAD AGAIN.
He got soooooooooo mad after that! It got to the point where even Feds were laughing about it. It's not so much as being blown up by someone in PVP. That's expected. It's when the same guy does it over and over and over with different means... That's when it gets hilarious!
To be honest the Bort probably had DHC capability thrown on as an after thought and wasn't really designed for them. It's not the only flying bathtub that can use DHCs in the game.
Quite, not the only one bad for the job. Like I knew better than to try Scimitar and D'Deridex with DHC/DC fittings for PVP Interestingly, the D'D and Scimitar were not favored by the Roms for PVP. Too unwieldy, the Warbirds that excelled for PVP were the smaller, faster ones. T'Varo, Dhelan, Mogai, Ha'feh. Those Warbirds were fast, hit hard coming out of cloaks, and zipped away before you knew it. The D'D and Scimitar were poor for that. Once out of cloaks they were sitting ducks.
When I was heavy into PVP, my absolute favorite Carrier was the JHDC. But I fitted her as a Beamboat because it was madness taking a brick like that and fitting it with DC/DHC weapons. Escorts would never be in her firing arc no matter how I specced her for PVP if using narrow arc weapons. JHDC with beams can be built to be tougher and take the focused attacks every carrier faced in PVP. I had it fitted with double Elite Orion Interceptors to constantly harass and pin ships to cripple their speed and thereby nuking their Defense, making them easy for spike dmg attacks for the team. This made my JHDC a threat that couldn't just be ignored and always a focus fire target. With all the grav wells, Escorts going to my ship's tail, DHC/DC fittings would have been 100% useless.
Yeah, my favored D'd build is basically a FaW tank. I kinda do the same with the Orion Marauder, Obelisk, Gal-X, and pretty much all slow ships, to include Bortas.
T'varo lends itself to Kinetic builds. So I use a torp heavy build on it. I actually once built a Mogai that used FaW with DBB, that was impressively deadly.
At any rate, the point is to use the strengths of a ship when doing builds, and not try to force it to be something it's not.
I do remember years ago someone making a D'Deridex work with turrets, single cannons, photonic shockwave for the disables in PVP. I never saw anyone do something like that with the D'D nor Scimitar in PVP, making it an alpha strike monster. Usually the D'D or Scimitar came out of cloak (or dragged out of cloak by various means), then they were sitting ducks if they didn't have a Beam Array build. They simply couldn't escape, no tricks would let them separate and recloak.
We got very good in chasing down Battle Cloaking, fast ships like BOPs, T'Varo, Dhelan, etc. Chase them down, disabling cloaks, finding them. So a slow a.f. ship like a D'D and Scimitar were easy.
Which made the simpler play of the Standard Cloak Klingon Battlecruisers simple. There was no disengagement. Once a KDF Battlecruiser made its presence known, it was committed until defeat or victory.
Another thing I didn't care for was 5/3 weapons layout on big, slow ships for PVP. 5 weapons forward is great in PVE but in a big ship in PVP, that's meaningless as those ships had a terrible time presenting those weapons on fast, nimble targets. Hilarious watching a 5/3 slow behemoth try to keep pace with a JHAS or some Escort that is on their tail.
Speaking of Mogai, you made me remember a hilarious occasion. Using my KDF-Rom Tac, I had acquired the Mogai and gave it a whirl in another wonderful time in Cap & Hold (or "Cap & 'Splode"). There was a Fed flying a Nebula and I decloaked and tried out my alpha strike. Wasn't the best but I still destroyed him, but took longer than what I wanted.
The guy got butt hurt about me blowing him up. Yes, I know, dying in PVP? UNIMAGINABLE! So he started talking s--t in match zone chat about how my alpha strike sucked. Truth be told, he was right. BUT I STILL KILLED HIM. So I made it a point for the rest of the match to find him and kill him. I did it. 5-6 more times. Every time someone gets killed, there was an in-match announcement, "Ti'el has destroyed ____" and so for a multiple times, everyone in both the KDF & Feds knew I killed him more than a handful of times in the match. Every time I said in match zone chat that I killed him.
Again.
And again.
And again.
AND AGAIN.
He was sooo mad. The best part was when I took my Mogai after I destroyed him once, then recloaked, and camped outside the Fed spawnpoint. I gambled he was going to spawn, then Full Impulse to where the big fighting was. I positioned a net of Tractor Mines where I knew Feds would travel through, then positioned myself, in cloak.
So here comes Hero Feddybear in his Nebula, he spawns and sure enough, goes Full Impulse exactly where I knew he was going to go. The Tractor Beam Mines snag him right out of Full Impulse, pin him in place (0 speed = 0 bonus defense = DEAD IN PVP). Before he could do anything to escape, I decloaked already with APA3 / Tactical Fleet / FOMM / APO3 / BO3 / CRF1, pop Aux Battery, then fired off the Ionized Particle Beam Console, followed up by Proton Barrage from the Dyson 3pc Space Set bonus.
DEAD AGAIN.
He got soooooooooo mad after that! It got to the point where even Feds were laughing about it. It's not so much as being blown up by someone in PVP. That's expected. It's when the same guy does it over and over and over with different means... That's when it gets hilarious!
Those were good days!
Oh man this post brought back memories. The Mogai was a nasty ship back in the day. I remember the Ion cannon / proton barrage vape. Love how you dropped the tractor mine in his path that's awesome.
I'll take dual beam banks over single arrays, especially if the ship firing them has 5 forward weapons- I feel that gives me more control over what targets I hit with FAW, and draw less aggro with a combo with DBBs + Omnis instead of a full load of single arrays.
I got myself the Tier 5 Fleet Vor'Cha yesterday for fun. Really nice kitbash options already.
I wrote an idea for a Tier 6 Vor'Cha yesterday, but the evil edit bug struck and deleted my post.
go ahead and re-write it if you can, it literally can't be more unpopular than MY idea.
When I find the time, I probably will.
But it might not be popular either. I still expect a low number of science consoles, for example. But I would turn the Lt.Cmdr Engineer the ship normally has into a Lt.Cmdr Universal|Pilot. Since Cryptic already missed the chance twice to make a C-Store Pilot Cruiser with the Excelsior and the Sovereign, maybe they'll do better with the Vor'Cha? It would be something that would set it apart, even if Pilot abilities are not generally seen as that great.
My Console was a console that grants perfect shields (Metaphasic Shield Emitter) for a brief time, ignoring all bleedthrough and shield penetration and turning it into temporary hit points.
The Trait was to buff Eject Warp Plasma, Subspace Boom and Coolant Ignition, to give them more oomph in hope of making them more popular. Nothing people are strongly clamoring for, but it fits Cryptic's idea of using traits and DOFF abilities to improve underpowered abilities, and these 3 abilites are cool - there are just better alternatives...
Who knows, maybe there will be a new spec by the time they get to the Vor'Cha...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Yeah, my favored D'd build is basically a FaW tank. I kinda do the same with the Orion Marauder, Obelisk, Gal-X, and pretty much all slow ships, to include Bortas.
T'varo lends itself to Kinetic builds. So I use a torp heavy build on it. I actually once built a Mogai that used FaW with DBB, that was impressively deadly.
At any rate, the point is to use the strengths of a ship when doing builds, and not try to force it to be something it's not.
Speaking of Mogai, you made me remember a hilarious occasion.
Kinda reminds me of the last time I did PvP. which was months ago... I forget why exactly, but somebody was talking in zone chat and I challenged them to PvP.
This was a FaW tank Scimmi build I was using and the other guy was using either a Dhelan or Malem, something small that stayed cloaked most of the fight. His build seemed to be centered on doing damage while staying cloaked. So he'd do stuff like dropping mines and a Grav well and running away. It didn't do enough damage to actually make me sweat. I eventually figured out that I could find him by hitting TBR around the time he was attacking. I'd see a damage ticker where he was and then I'd just fly towards the damage ticker. I think I finished him off with actual weapons, but I'm not sure. I had pretty good perception so I could see him as long as he was within 3km. What I should have done, but didn't, was mashing subnuke as soon as I could target him. (yes, I was a Science Romulan flying a Flambard)
I insist about the Uni to be Intel, not temporal, or command, and i think they will follow the Intel route, i'l do diminish the shield modifier, to have less shield
Yeah, my favored D'd build is basically a FaW tank. I kinda do the same with the Orion Marauder, Obelisk, Gal-X, and pretty much all slow ships, to include Bortas.
T'varo lends itself to Kinetic builds. So I use a torp heavy build on it. I actually once built a Mogai that used FaW with DBB, that was impressively deadly.
At any rate, the point is to use the strengths of a ship when doing builds, and not try to force it to be something it's not.
Speaking of Mogai, you made me remember a hilarious occasion.
Kinda reminds me of the last time I did PvP. which was months ago... I forget why exactly, but somebody was talking in zone chat and I challenged them to PvP.
This was a FaW tank Scimmi build I was using and the other guy was using either a Dhelan or Malem, something small that stayed cloaked most of the fight. His build seemed to be centered on doing damage while staying cloaked. So he'd do stuff like dropping mines and a Grav well and running away. It didn't do enough damage to actually make me sweat. I eventually figured out that I could find him by hitting TBR around the time he was attacking. I'd see a damage ticker where he was and then I'd just fly towards the damage ticker. I think I finished him off with actual weapons, but I'm not sure. I had pretty good perception so I could see him as long as he was within 3km. What I should have done, but didn't, was mashing subnuke as soon as I could target him. (yes, I was a Science Romulan flying a Flambard)
I know what kind of build style you're talking about. Sci Support / Mines / Torps. It may be fine when working in conjunction with others but in a 1vs1 fight, I found that to be troubling to do anything with, most especially when your best attacks require to get into close range.
I flew something like that with the B'Rel Retrofit on occasion. Great in a team environment when there are others to lose yourself behind, not so good when you're the only thing the enemy has to worry about.
Actually, IMO, cloak-capable ships that aren't alpha strike boats are mediocre in 1vs1. The enemy only has to account for only you, and in your example, you caught a pattern and were braced for it. Now imagine that in a team environment. The Warbird you were after would be hard to be ready for when there's other ships attacking you. Now, an alpha striking, cloak ship will be dangerous no matter what, even 1vs1 but even then, it'd be more menacing in a team environment.
This was one of the reasons, at least in old school STO PVP, why KDF was very good. Yes, part of it was simply because of, "We had nothing better to do, no PVE to mention, so we just PVPed." But part of it was the balance of the faction ships it had. Our Battlecruisers committed and were always there in the fight, keeping attention. Nobody flew Raptors in PVP because they were mediocre compared to the likes of Fleet Defiant / Prometheus / Lockbox Escorts. But the B'Rel and Heghta were perfect to work alongside the Battlecruisers. Ships like Vor'Cha would be in constant engagement. They had no choice, they were standard cloak ships. But the BOPs would weave in and out of combat, picking out targets that were safest to engage, sometimes with multiple BOPs. I still remember back in the day our best players flew the BOPs.
Comments
T'varo lends itself to Kinetic builds. So I use a torp heavy build on it. I actually once built a Mogai that used FaW with DBB, that was impressively deadly.
At any rate, the point is to use the strengths of a ship when doing builds, and not try to force it to be something it's not.
My character Tsin'xing
if I have the space I keep an esn or lt faw for cluster torps, fighters, etc but I prefer overload myself.
as for theory crafting take a long hard look at the naj'sov, youll get an idea what itll look like
But please please PLEASE can we have a T6 Vor'cha, T6 Nova, T6 SteamRunner and T6 Sabre and if i'm really good this year could i please ask Santa for a T6 Norway class. Thank you.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
aut vincere aut mori pro imperio
either to conquer or to die for the Empire
I do remember years ago someone making a D'Deridex work with turrets, single cannons, photonic shockwave for the disables in PVP. I never saw anyone do something like that with the D'D nor Scimitar in PVP, making it an alpha strike monster. Usually the D'D or Scimitar came out of cloak (or dragged out of cloak by various means), then they were sitting ducks if they didn't have a Beam Array build. They simply couldn't escape, no tricks would let them separate and recloak.
We got very good in chasing down Battle Cloaking, fast ships like BOPs, T'Varo, Dhelan, etc. Chase them down, disabling cloaks, finding them. So a slow a.f. ship like a D'D and Scimitar were easy.
Which made the simpler play of the Standard Cloak Klingon Battlecruisers simple. There was no disengagement. Once a KDF Battlecruiser made its presence known, it was committed until defeat or victory.
Another thing I didn't care for was 5/3 weapons layout on big, slow ships for PVP. 5 weapons forward is great in PVE but in a big ship in PVP, that's meaningless as those ships had a terrible time presenting those weapons on fast, nimble targets. Hilarious watching a 5/3 slow behemoth try to keep pace with a JHAS or some Escort that is on their tail.
Speaking of Mogai, you made me remember a hilarious occasion. Using my KDF-Rom Tac, I had acquired the Mogai and gave it a whirl in another wonderful time in Cap & Hold (or "Cap & 'Splode"). There was a Fed flying a Nebula and I decloaked and tried out my alpha strike. Wasn't the best but I still destroyed him, but took longer than what I wanted.
The guy got butt hurt about me blowing him up. Yes, I know, dying in PVP? UNIMAGINABLE! So he started talking s--t in match zone chat about how my alpha strike sucked. Truth be told, he was right. BUT I STILL KILLED HIM. So I made it a point for the rest of the match to find him and kill him. I did it. 5-6 more times. Every time someone gets killed, there was an in-match announcement, "Ti'el has destroyed ____" and so for a multiple times, everyone in both the KDF & Feds knew I killed him more than a handful of times in the match. Every time I said in match zone chat that I killed him.
Again.
And again.
And again.
AND AGAIN.
He was sooo mad. The best part was when I took my Mogai after I destroyed him once, then recloaked, and camped outside the Fed spawnpoint. I gambled he was going to spawn, then Full Impulse to where the big fighting was. I positioned a net of Tractor Mines where I knew Feds would travel through, then positioned myself, in cloak.
So here comes Hero Feddybear in his Nebula, he spawns and sure enough, goes Full Impulse exactly where I knew he was going to go. The Tractor Beam Mines snag him right out of Full Impulse, pin him in place (0 speed = 0 bonus defense = DEAD IN PVP). Before he could do anything to escape, I decloaked already with APA3 / Tactical Fleet / FOMM / APO3 / BO3 / CRF1, pop Aux Battery, then fired off the Ionized Particle Beam Console, followed up by Proton Barrage from the Dyson 3pc Space Set bonus.
DEAD AGAIN.
He got soooooooooo mad after that!
Those were good days!
Oh man this post brought back memories. The Mogai was a nasty ship back in the day. I remember the Ion cannon / proton barrage vape. Love how you dropped the tractor mine in his path that's awesome.
I wrote an idea for a Tier 6 Vor'Cha yesterday, but the evil edit bug struck and deleted my post.
But it might not be popular either.
My Console was a console that grants perfect shields (Metaphasic Shield Emitter) for a brief time, ignoring all bleedthrough and shield penetration and turning it into temporary hit points.
The Trait was to buff Eject Warp Plasma, Subspace Boom and Coolant Ignition, to give them more oomph in hope of making them more popular. Nothing people are strongly clamoring for, but it fits Cryptic's idea of using traits and DOFF abilities to improve underpowered abilities, and these 3 abilites are cool - there are just better alternatives...
Who knows, maybe there will be a new spec by the time they get to the Vor'Cha...
This was a FaW tank Scimmi build I was using and the other guy was using either a Dhelan or Malem, something small that stayed cloaked most of the fight. His build seemed to be centered on doing damage while staying cloaked. So he'd do stuff like dropping mines and a Grav well and running away. It didn't do enough damage to actually make me sweat. I eventually figured out that I could find him by hitting TBR around the time he was attacking. I'd see a damage ticker where he was and then I'd just fly towards the damage ticker. I think I finished him off with actual weapons, but I'm not sure. I had pretty good perception so I could see him as long as he was within 3km. What I should have done, but didn't, was mashing subnuke as soon as I could target him. (yes, I was a Science Romulan flying a Flambard)
My character Tsin'xing
I know what kind of build style you're talking about. Sci Support / Mines / Torps. It may be fine when working in conjunction with others but in a 1vs1 fight, I found that to be troubling to do anything with, most especially when your best attacks require to get into close range.
I flew something like that with the B'Rel Retrofit on occasion. Great in a team environment when there are others to lose yourself behind, not so good when you're the only thing the enemy has to worry about.
Actually, IMO, cloak-capable ships that aren't alpha strike boats are mediocre in 1vs1. The enemy only has to account for only you, and in your example, you caught a pattern and were braced for it. Now imagine that in a team environment. The Warbird you were after would be hard to be ready for when there's other ships attacking you. Now, an alpha striking, cloak ship will be dangerous no matter what, even 1vs1 but even then, it'd be more menacing in a team environment.
This was one of the reasons, at least in old school STO PVP, why KDF was very good. Yes, part of it was simply because of, "We had nothing better to do, no PVE to mention, so we just PVPed." But part of it was the balance of the faction ships it had. Our Battlecruisers committed and were always there in the fight, keeping attention. Nobody flew Raptors in PVP because they were mediocre compared to the likes of Fleet Defiant / Prometheus / Lockbox Escorts. But the B'Rel and Heghta were perfect to work alongside the Battlecruisers. Ships like Vor'Cha would be in constant engagement. They had no choice, they were standard cloak ships. But the BOPs would weave in and out of combat, picking out targets that were safest to engage, sometimes with multiple BOPs. I still remember back in the day our best players flew the BOPs.
My character Tsin'xing